The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: vanhos on December 12, 2012, 08:27:02 PM
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I have bought a f14 tomcat few months ago knowing it had a few issues.
No sound at all.
Faulty display.
When i got it home i started it up with. The power supply to the display board disconnected (there was a short in display board).
It did work to a point ehen it would start pumping out extra balls into the shoot. I left it off for few weeks came back to it. Had same problem then it just stopped working. It just goes through a few light sequinces now.
I decided to chase up a new display. There is none around. I then came across beaky on this site i pulled out old display and sent it up to him. In few days it came back ready to go.
I then found out the power supply to the display was faulty. Another quick response from beaky had my power supply up and working.
I plugged it all back together making sure power supply was going tp each correct pins. Once i fired it up came more issues.
The two displays on the right started to flicker scroll around and start and stop. I then looked harder at cpu board and found some real dodgy repairs. Sending pics soon.
Im thinking it was working at 80% when i first got it so im hoping there isnt issues with the cpu. $$$$$$$$$.
At this point im to scared to turn back on.
I will send through pics soon. Any ideas out there.
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just so every one knows when the displays left here they where working 100% and then the power supply HV was repaired by vanhos before connecting the displays as the voltages were to high.
what are the leds on the board doing?
also do you have a steady +5v and +12 to the board?
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You are correct beaky the display was 100% when it arrived here. I will check out the leds for you im pretty sure left one was on. Middle one was flickering crazy and right one was on too.
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Still trying to work out uploading.
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Bit of corossion in these pins am looking for new plugs out there in pinny world.
Not sure what the two cables hanging and are taped up.
There seems to be some butchering going on in some spots.
Leds are as last posted.
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This one is of display.
I will remove cpu at some stage. Take more pics.
Bit of a brothel behind here.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the faulty display damaged some of the outputs on the cpu. one of the displays had chunks blown out of several I.C.s
without the display you cannot see what is going on so you can't tell if it has gone back to default settings or what's going on
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Yeah kind of screwed with out the display. Ill pull of the cpu and see whats behind it. Just checked a new one out there expensive.
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send it up with the sound board and i will sort it all out for you much cheaper than buying a new one ^^^
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Yep. Sounds like a good idea will send up on monday morning. Just in time for the xmas rush.haha.
Ill post few pics of boards the main board has been repaired at some stage not very good repair.
Im hoping mods are ok. But im thinking the voice and sound chips might be buggered seeing i dont have any sound.
While the cpu is away ill do some tidy up work on the playfield.
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pics of boards
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pics(http://) more pics
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Why is there a space station ROM in it?? May just be the sticker but...
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pics
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Why is there a space station ROM in it?? May just be the sticker but...
I was wondering that too !@#
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no idea which one are you talking about have it infront of me
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yep,
you guys are right it has SACE STATION U4 SOUND 07B0 what the??
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no idea which one are you talking about have it infront of me
In U4
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i ment space not sace.
i did pick this machine up cheap think beaky is going to be scrathing his head with this one.
im virgin when it comes to pinball machines still learning here.
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If your not confident with board repairs best to send the lot off for checking and the repairer can test them on a test bench..
Before you hook them back up, coils need to be tested and other things step by step. If you can find the pin repair guides online they give an excellent step by step guide for a new pin and how to check things without causing damage
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yeah both are heading of to beaky on monday.
while i wait im going to try and clean the playfield but i dont want to touch the actual playfield other than quick clean. there is mylar that stands out and also a few inserts are buggered but i dont reall wnat to go that far in cleaning the playfield.
how ever whats the best way to clean the ramps and the legs. i dont have a tumbler handy at all.
also is there any other things i should be looking at before the cpu comes back.
trying to post pics but it says there to big. im virgin at pinball machines and computers lol...... oh and nearlly failed in english at school very bad speller.
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oh and also i found these two cables taped up each on there own you can see them just of centre to the right purple and blue other one is blue i think. they have been like this since i bought it.
also the 2.5 amp slow blow has 4 amp fuse in it. i did replace it with a 2.5amp slow blow but it did blow on me so 4 amp is back in any idea what this fuse is for and the 2 cables. ill check out the manual just got to find time thats all.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The 2 'taped' wires are the 'knocker' wires that go to the knocker solenoid in the headbox (which is removed, hence why the wires were cut and left hanging).
I'm VERY surprised you're having cpu issues, as i played that machine a LOT and it worked everyday without hassle, obviously the lack of score-display didn't help things).
Anyway, it's in good hands with beaky's touch ;-)
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Thanks marty. You are right when i got it home it played but was spitting out extra ball. So when you went to play next ball you couldnt get two up the ramp. After about ten goes it just stopped kicking out any balls. Lights worked going through a sequence and the topper lights do too. Im thinking best thing i do is get it checked any way. Maybe the sound chips are buggered too. Hence i dont have any noise. Also seems to be the wrong chip in there or labeled wrong.
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Do not overfuse any circuits . The fuse is meant to blow 1st if there is a problem otherwise you are just going to fry components which is much more of a headache . You need to find out what is causing the 2.5amp SB to blow .. what is it protecting ? ie.. what circuit ?
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Yeah im going to follow it back see were it goes.
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Have a read of Nino's restoration threads and there are great tips on cleaning legs and metal parts.
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If it is spitting out more than one ball usually means that there is a switch / contacts in the ball trough stuck closed so the machine still thinks all the balls are still in there even after it has fired one out.
i will wave my magic wand over your boards and have them working and looking the best that they can.
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when your machine run,if you have problem with switch matrix(tilt problem) change a crc6 resistor network on your cpu.it was my problem on my f14.i search a long time for find this problem...
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Has any body got a belt for topper lights for tomcat. Before i go buy one overseas.
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Spoke to my dad the otherday about the topper belts. He came back to me with o-ring tubing. He told meto use soldering iron and stick it together for the correct size. Tested it out and bingo. It works. I repaired both as i had to drop the motor out. But if you had three hands you could do it with out pulling out the motor.
Tubing is brown.
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Just have to tidy up the edges of thetubing after its stuck together.
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Nice work . ^^^ Glad to hear its sorted
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Was replacing the plastics and tidying up playfield and i found this. So now looking for a some spinner decals and the two other stickers while im going. Any one out ther got the four stickers. Im looking at buying some from usa.
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Just woundering how do you guys remove these light covers. I did drill out the blind riverts. But just checking if there is another way. Also what do u replace them with when you put them back together. I have loads of small bolts and nuts just a tad scared about using a riverter to put them back on with.
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Yes to drill them out. To replace you need a rivet press. These are speciality for pinball repairs
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Bolts and nuts it is.
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Whereabouts in Vic are you?
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Warrnambool
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About 5 hrs away. Bit far to swing past to rivet. Not sure if anyone up that way has a press
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Yeah down that way. Even the goverment thinks were to far away.
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you should of stuck it in the package with the boards.
Oh and buy the way your sound board and cpu board are ready so you will be able to play it soon.
no switch matrix faults found but the test display was doing the same freaky stuff as it was doing in your machine.
boards have been made as good as new so no need for new boards
I will post some before and after photos soon.
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Cheers beaky. The boards were a discrase. You pictures show u do amazing work. Pm all the details ill sort u out straight away..
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here is the link to the repair procedures
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9843.0 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9843.0)
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So i changed all the plastics over today. And now im left with three which were not on the machine. No idea were they go.
Ive figured out were the big one goes. But not the others. Checked alot of pictures on the net still no luck.
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While im posting which decal for the spinner is the origanal.
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While im posting anybody got these stickers.
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Found out were two of the left over plastics go. Just need to make up some brackets so it covers the ramp On the left. Still not shore
were the fighter jet goes but i put it in anyway. Hope it looks ok.
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After scolling the net. I found out the left over jet plastic is actually a promotional plasti for collectors..
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Hi mate,
Looks like your getting there Great Game,
check out my F14 resto and Clearcoat thread may give you some clues/inspiration on F14 stuff..
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=7378.0
I too had switch matrix issues that were fixed by the CR networks stated earlier..
Peter..
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Few pics of ac plug. And yellow cable plug.
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Ive looked through the manual and i think i am blind. Can any one tell me what type of glibes are in this machine. Also what style leds should i use.
Typing on a mobile doing my head in. Carnt get back to change globes. Plus i nearlly failed english.lol
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Mate,
does it have the Lamp PCBs under the PF? If it does it will have a mix of 555 and 44,
if its early Production like mine it will be all 44s
Peter..
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Heres a pic of my power connector j3 on my sound board. Question is is pin 6 12+ (white/grey). On the schematic it doesnt say what voltage it should be. just double checking.
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Also a small issue with display. See pic i found a cross wire on the power supply been playing havic with my boards.
Beakys been helping me out big time. His work is amazing another satisfied customer.
I have it working now. But think i have a multi ball issue its throwing out two or three balls into the shoot think ill need top display working first to rectify that...
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we need to sort out that display problem for you.
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Fired up the machine today played away. Then two balls jumpeed into the shooter lane. It did this a few times. Also there is a fuse that blows 2.5amp. See pic. This must control the kick outs once it blows they dont work. Any ideas out there
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Heres pic of the fuse. I replaced it and the balls kick out but after few minutes it blows again.
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The fuse issue is still there ran out of 2.5sb fuses was about to do a solnoid test but no fuses left.
With the multi ball problem i reset the machine to factory settings. I then start the game grab the ball and hit a target then drop it through the flippers. I do this till game over. Once the maching finishs its game over sequence it then spits out all the balls into the shooter. Any body have any ideas.
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The fuse issue is still there ran out of 2.5sb fuses was about to do a solnoid test but no fuses left.
With the multi ball problem i reset the machine to factory settings. I then start the game grab the ball and hit a target then drop it through the flippers. I do this till game over. Once the maching finishs its game over sequence it then spits out all the balls into the shooter. Any body have any ideas.
Are the flashers working in the game?
if not sounds like the A/C relay is not working so the machine tries to send power to a flasher but because the A/C relay is not working the power goes to the ball kick out instead
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try doing a coil test in the diagnostics and make sure the test fires the coil or flasher it says its firing on the display.
if i am right about the A/C relay then it when you are in the test when going the lower end of the test it will fire a coil instead of a flasher when the display says flasher
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Yep did a test and all the flasher points fire a solonoid instead of the flashers. Ill check out the ac relay after tea.
I would think this would also be the reason it kicks multi balls into the shooter lane.
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Did amother test run tonight through the solonoids. When it got to the solonoid ac select relay nothing happend. See pic of relay. I check the ohm level of the relay it was 626 ohms. Checked a other one it was the same so i assume the coil in th ac relay is fine. Thats with out unsoldering all the relays.
Any ideas on were to go now.
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.......sounds like the A/C relay is not working so the machine tries to send power to a flasher but because the A/C relay is not working the power goes to the ball kick out instead
Nice diagnosis Beaky. ^^^
Be worth checking that diode and maybe re-soldering the wires.
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.......sounds like the A/C relay is not working so the machine tries to send power to a flasher but because the A/C relay is not working the power goes to the ball kick out instead
Nice diagnosis Beaky. ^^^
Be worth checking that diode and maybe re-soldering the wires.
thanks steevsee
did you sort out the fuse problem?
if you havent then the fuse that keeps blowing may supply the voltage for the relay?
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Yeah i replaced the fuse and then did the test. Fuse was ok after the test run..
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Did another test on the ac relay. I stopped the self test on ac relay and decided to measure the voltage on the board..
Across the tabs coil and NC i got 32v dc
Across NC and DRV flucuate between 0 and 10v.
All the others i got nothing.
The tab that says 28v does not have anything soldered on it.
During the test the fuse is ok. Fuse only blows at the end of the game. Trys to kick out all the balls into the shooter lane and some flash globes light up for a few seconds.
I have resoldered the board aswell..
Still no idea were to go..
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I also checked the transistors Q7 And Q8. Results below.
Q7..
B+ / E 869
B+ / C. 798
B- / E. 881
B- / C. OL
E. / C. 629
+C. / -E. OL
Q8.
864
820
877
1093
558
656.
Just woundering after reading a few sites that either of these two transitors have something to do with the AC relay.
Would Q8 be buggered with these readings...
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Couple of quick and easy tests for the large transistors.
1. With the power OFF, use your meter to check for continuity between ground, and the metal tab of easch transistor.
There should be none. Any transistor which has continuity with ground, is shorted on.
2. With the power ON, clip a jumper lead to the metal tab of Q7, (which drives the A/C relay). Next touch the other end to the ground braid, whilst listening for the A/C relay to click. Just touch quickly and release.
From your earlier measurements, it seems like Q7 might be OK, but Q8 (which controls the line of death kick back), might be bad, as you suspected.
Also have you checked all of the coils in the game for resistance?
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I have resoldered the board aswell..
Still no idea were to go..
Did you also reflow the pins of the relay itself?
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cheers,
will check tonight about the grounding.
i read about the jumper to the ground braid but was a bit scared to do so. i will try all these tonight.
i did reflow everything on this board.
do the connections on the board look correct should there be anything connected to the +28v tab .
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Not 100% sure, but I think you may be right about the 28v tab. !@#
Found this pic online.
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Could be a brown/blue wire coming from pin 7 of J 12 on the cpu board.
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Could be a brown/blue wire coming from pin 7 of J 12 on the cpu board.
Or is that brown/blue wire on the DRV tab?
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Yeah looks a bit different any body else out there can take a pic of there ac relay on a f14 tomcat
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Here's another pic, just to help others ID the tabs on the relay board.
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Here's a pic from the manual of the A/C circuit
And a closeup of the relay connections
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Looks like you will definitely need some volts at the "+ 28 " pin, if the relay is ever going to activate.
It obviously shares voltages with the "G" pin so maybe worth moving one of the red wires to + 28 pin to test what happens.
You don't have to solder it, just disconnect then try with a jumper lead.
Easy to move back if it doesn't make a difference. ^^^
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Yeah u are right has to have something on there will check
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yep, looks like its missing the +28v
the +28v supplies the voltage to the coil on the relay. so without that wire the relay can't energise.
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going by the schematic there should be a wire from G to +28
leave the 2 wires on the COM and use a jumper wire from +28 to COM
that should fix your problem
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using the picture you supplied of your A/C relay jumper a wire from the far right red wires (it looks like red to me) to the empty +28 tab which 1 tab to the left of the red wires. you could nearly blob some solder across the 2 contacts.
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Yep beaky to the rescue again linked those two now all good extra ball issue gone and the blown fuse. Now just a few non working flashers. Thanks guys for all your hel. Big thanks to beaky.
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no problems, glad i could help
steveesee was on the right track ^^^
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Cool it's sorted. ^^^