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Quote from: Strangeways on February 28, 2013, 06:53:04 PMQuote from: Caveoftreasures on February 28, 2013, 03:26:00 PMwell said.I think alot of people forget that JJP's mission statement was to bring out a pinball machine that was -1. cheaper than the Stern model (didnt happen, its dearer than every Stern model)2. bring out a model ontime without the need for multiple code upgrades (hasnt happened and it will need multiple code upgrades once u recieve it)3. a better machine with more toys, more everything (yes, that has happened, but they are charging almost $4,000 more for the upgrades)4. a higher quality built machine (we dont know yet cause we have to see one and see it used over a 12 month period so it can be proven)and JJP isnt the only culprit here.Stern also promised to deliver what the fans/customers were asking for, which was a better quality machine, with more toys, more bling etc, at the same price.That didnt happen, and when it did happen, sort of, it was called a LE and u had to pay an extra $2400 to get those upgrades.So whilst i am a huge Stern fan, it seems that not only poloticians make promises and end up changing things and charging a hefty price for it.Personally, I am very happy with the level of the Pro machines for the $6600 delivered/shaker motor etc, but If Stern was to cut costs or cut anything on the Pro model, I would stop buying. The Pro models must stay the same, as a minimum, or get even better to keep their captive audience happier.The whole Pinball Industry has to get more efficient, and really focus on absolute value for money.IMO anyway.I have forgotten the Mission Statement - I can only find it here ;http://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/ourmission.aspxTo compare a late model Stern to WOZ in terms of pricing, is a $5 difference after a quick search online!WOZhttp://www.pinballsales.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=45&idcategory=2AC/DC - even after it has been out for 12 monthshttp://www.greatamericanpinball.com/product_detail.asp?productId=308&categoryId=30&returnPage=%2Fproducts%2Easp%3FcategoryId%3D30%26returnPage%3D%252Fcategories%252Easp%253FcategoryId%253D1The AC/DC is a massive $5 cheaper ! I can't see where it costs $4000 to "upgrade" a WOZ - You can get a shaker motor and inviglass for an extra $500 according to the website (see the link)Bringing a model out on time - Well at least JJP is honest with their estimates. Nothing like the huge problems with AC/DC shaker motors, boards etc. They rushed AC/DC out the door and it cost them with repairs etc. Then the Avengers / Hulk software updates - 90 "changes and fixes" - That's quality for you !From an engineering background, the photos of the WOZ electronics etc compared to Stern, they are miles apart. Stern have some serious catching up to do.Stern need to get serious. Drop the three different "models" and give the public what they are used to - One model and that's it. As suggested on another thread - We need the STANDARD for Stern to be what they release as a Premium. Drop the Pro Model. That's what people want, or they will be moving away from sterns and looking at the competition.The winner will always be the public. The bar is lifted, and the ball is back in Stern's court. I want them to succeed by lifting their standards. I can't wait to see BETTER sterns on the market in say a year's time.Good comparison, Nino when comparing the two you definitely have to put the premium up against the JJP models, apples with apples.The premium is the model as the designers wanted, the pro a cut back budget model.Surprised to see only a $5 difference between the two, I know which I would rather put my hard earned toward, even with the loooong wait.
Quote from: Caveoftreasures on February 28, 2013, 03:26:00 PMwell said.I think alot of people forget that JJP's mission statement was to bring out a pinball machine that was -1. cheaper than the Stern model (didnt happen, its dearer than every Stern model)2. bring out a model ontime without the need for multiple code upgrades (hasnt happened and it will need multiple code upgrades once u recieve it)3. a better machine with more toys, more everything (yes, that has happened, but they are charging almost $4,000 more for the upgrades)4. a higher quality built machine (we dont know yet cause we have to see one and see it used over a 12 month period so it can be proven)and JJP isnt the only culprit here.Stern also promised to deliver what the fans/customers were asking for, which was a better quality machine, with more toys, more bling etc, at the same price.That didnt happen, and when it did happen, sort of, it was called a LE and u had to pay an extra $2400 to get those upgrades.So whilst i am a huge Stern fan, it seems that not only poloticians make promises and end up changing things and charging a hefty price for it.Personally, I am very happy with the level of the Pro machines for the $6600 delivered/shaker motor etc, but If Stern was to cut costs or cut anything on the Pro model, I would stop buying. The Pro models must stay the same, as a minimum, or get even better to keep their captive audience happier.The whole Pinball Industry has to get more efficient, and really focus on absolute value for money.IMO anyway.I have forgotten the Mission Statement - I can only find it here ;http://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/ourmission.aspxTo compare a late model Stern to WOZ in terms of pricing, is a $5 difference after a quick search online!WOZhttp://www.pinballsales.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=45&idcategory=2AC/DC - even after it has been out for 12 monthshttp://www.greatamericanpinball.com/product_detail.asp?productId=308&categoryId=30&returnPage=%2Fproducts%2Easp%3FcategoryId%3D30%26returnPage%3D%252Fcategories%252Easp%253FcategoryId%253D1The AC/DC is a massive $5 cheaper ! I can't see where it costs $4000 to "upgrade" a WOZ - You can get a shaker motor and inviglass for an extra $500 according to the website (see the link)Bringing a model out on time - Well at least JJP is honest with their estimates. Nothing like the huge problems with AC/DC shaker motors, boards etc. They rushed AC/DC out the door and it cost them with repairs etc. Then the Avengers / Hulk software updates - 90 "changes and fixes" - That's quality for you !From an engineering background, the photos of the WOZ electronics etc compared to Stern, they are miles apart. Stern have some serious catching up to do.Stern need to get serious. Drop the three different "models" and give the public what they are used to - One model and that's it. As suggested on another thread - We need the STANDARD for Stern to be what they release as a Premium. Drop the Pro Model. That's what people want, or they will be moving away from sterns and looking at the competition.The winner will always be the public. The bar is lifted, and the ball is back in Stern's court. I want them to succeed by lifting their standards. I can't wait to see BETTER sterns on the market in say a year's time.
well said.I think alot of people forget that JJP's mission statement was to bring out a pinball machine that was -1. cheaper than the Stern model (didnt happen, its dearer than every Stern model)2. bring out a model ontime without the need for multiple code upgrades (hasnt happened and it will need multiple code upgrades once u recieve it)3. a better machine with more toys, more everything (yes, that has happened, but they are charging almost $4,000 more for the upgrades)4. a higher quality built machine (we dont know yet cause we have to see one and see it used over a 12 month period so it can be proven)and JJP isnt the only culprit here.Stern also promised to deliver what the fans/customers were asking for, which was a better quality machine, with more toys, more bling etc, at the same price.That didnt happen, and when it did happen, sort of, it was called a LE and u had to pay an extra $2400 to get those upgrades.So whilst i am a huge Stern fan, it seems that not only poloticians make promises and end up changing things and charging a hefty price for it.Personally, I am very happy with the level of the Pro machines for the $6600 delivered/shaker motor etc, but If Stern was to cut costs or cut anything on the Pro model, I would stop buying. The Pro models must stay the same, as a minimum, or get even better to keep their captive audience happier.The whole Pinball Industry has to get more efficient, and really focus on absolute value for money.IMO anyway.
