Author Topic: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012  (Read 5173 times)

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Offline PinballMagazine

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2012, 08:44:46 PM »
There is a good reason why Stern doesn't publish any production numbers. If they would they would lose all credibility they somehow still seem to have (ironically often with pinball enthusiasts. I can't think of any pinball industry insider praising Stern for what they have been doing for the past 12 years.) I also doubt they would have found an investor to step in if those numbers were publicly known.

They ran out of left over McDonalds toys for Shrek.. so no more to be made

out of all the pinball company's to have survived Why did it have to be Stern? toys toys and more toys.
the least inventive pinball company, they are no bally williams as far as inventiveness of titles goes. how they survived is beyond me.
24? or CSI? come on, there is only 5 titles in that entire list that makes sense making, and yes acdc is one of them that makes sense.

i know allot of pressure rides on sterns shoulders as far as keeping pinball alive, but does it look to you that they arent even trying to be inventive???

I will say to cavey, it is great loyalty you hold towards Stern, and i can fully understand why you like them, and its for all the right reasons you support them as you understand, its the last real operational pinball company making pinballs. so i know my comments about stern seem a little personal. i dont mean them to be. my beef is purely with strens lack of innovation, i am glad that a company still operates but the more i look at sterns pinballs, or to be fair late stern pinballs, you can see how lazy they are. with out any real competing company against stern they seem to have no invovation to feed off.

what stern needs to do is look at what the best and over all most popular pinballs that have ever been made, sit down and study them, play them and figure out what it is people like about those machines, once they understand that, maybe they can start building not just good pinballs but awesome pinballs.

It's not so much running out of toys. FG didn't sell at all. Gary has admitted "that game came too soon". That's still a stubborn vision as nobody internally thought it would be a good theme. At the time nobody in Europe knew the theme. Shrek came to being to find a use for the parts for 500 games that already had been laying around. As that was announced as a limited edition, they couldn't make more.

While amongst pinball enthusiasts there seem to be Stern lovers and Stern haters, isn't it odd that there aren't that many Sega lovers? Stern simply continued what they were doing as Sega. Ops considered Sega a B-brand at the time and even with B/W as A-brand gone, Stern didn't even try to become an A-brand. Yet it seems we have to be thankful for all the poorly themed games with lack of innovation that have been put out of the past 12 years. I don't hear anyone saying we should be happy for Sega pinball games like Lost in Space, Independence Day, X-files, or Starship Troopers. You could make a second list including all the Data East and Sega games. Could be a fun listing, but it also would raise even more questionmarks with me.
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Offline Homepin

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2012, 10:13:23 PM »
WOW, Lost In Space - I never even knew they made that - I would love one, and only 600 made???
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2012, 10:43:17 PM »
yes, SEGA made Lost in Space.
I have three quarters of all Sega games made, and I am a HUGE fan of Sega games. I would rather have all the SEGA games than half of the cookie cutter B/W games, cause they play better and have more interactive toys and are half the price and much better value. Same goes for DATA EAST games, alot of great games made here.

I only try to focus on the good that Stern has done, because at the end of the day, STERN has survived and no one else could. Thats worth something.
Another thing, if it wasnt for Stern, blokes like Johnh Borg, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez and twenty others wouldnt be designing pinballs. Its a funny thing, that in the end, Stern was the saviour, the only continuer of the pinball industry worldwide. I am looking forward to the new titles in 2013.
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2012, 10:51:25 PM »
P.S -

I have done game lists for the Bally, Sega and Data East brands as well.

They are located under the General Discussion section of threads.  ^^^ ^^^
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 02:23:21 PM by Caveoftreasures »
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Offline Retropin

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2012, 11:04:21 PM »
yes, SEGA made Lost in Space.
I have three quarters of all Sega games made, and I am a HUGE fan of Sega games. I would rather have all the SEGA games than half of the cookie cutter B/W games, cause they play better and have more interactive toys and are half the price and much better value. Same goes for DATA EAST games, alot of great games made here.

I only try to focus on the good that Stern has done, because at the end of the day, STERN has survived and no one else could. Thats worth something.
Another thing, if it wasnt for Stern, blokes like Johnh Borg, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez and twenty others wouldnt be designing pinballs. Its a funny thing, that in the end, Stern was the saviour, the only continuer of the pinball industry worldwide. I am looking forward to the new titles in 2013.

A few points need to be cleared up here.....
Premier.. trading as Gottlieb, after Coca Cola had had an input sold off all its assets and divided it all to the share holders. In reality, GOTTLIEB cashed in years before and pulled out of the market with millions under its belt.
WILLIAMS bought out BALLY and continued to make great games but the decline in pinball sales saw them cease production of pinball and concentrate on gaming machines.. a move that has made them far more money than pinball ever did... WIILIAMS still exist but pure business ethics made them move to a new production.
Both of these big boys in the industry CHOSE to close their doors on the advent of arcade games... neither went broke... both cashed in one way or another. Both ceased trading pinball as successful companies still.
So its not a case of Stern carrying on when noone else could, its a case of those companies moving to bigger things.. move with the times or see your business demise.
Stern was until recently a privately owned company... this is no longer. With private investors.. Stern could easily cease trading tomorrow... not because it cant sell 2000 ACDC pins but because the board will decide that production would be better elsewhere... or cash in while its good.
So yes. Stern are #1 pinball manufacturer right now, but in the day they were the Playmatics of the USA scene.... a failure to progress ( Sterns bible) and a stubborness by Gary have seen it flounder over the years and come very very close to bankruptcy... hence the investor input.
its not a case of Sterns success cos they are still in build mode and GOOD licenced themes have seen a recent success... the others walked away laughing to the bank

Offline RottyGuy

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2012, 11:32:28 PM »
WOW, Lost In Space - I never even knew they made that - I would love one, and only 600 made???

You see them come up for sale on a regular basis. In the last 3 - 6 months, Pinball Shed, OZ Pinball, PSPA and Oscar at Pinball Memories have all had one for sale.

Offline PinballMagazine

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2012, 03:42:12 AM »
If it wasnt for Stern, blokes like Johnh Borg, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez and twenty others wouldnt be designing pinballs. Its a funny thing, that in the end, Stern was the saviour, the only continuer of the pinball industry worldwide. I am looking forward to the new titles in 2013.
OK, you obviously have a very colored vision favoring Sten. That's fine. However, there are 2 sides to a coin. Your savior is also the one who limited all these talented designers in their work and in the eyes of many practically forced them to put out half finished cut down games with crappy licensed themes or crappy execution. So yes all the big names were designing games thanks to Gary, but probably not the games would want to design because your savior held them back. The only theory we can't test: what would have happened if Stern had never been there? Would other people have stepped up and started a factory? Who knows what great games that could have resulted in. If Gary is such a hero for pinball, how come most industry insiders tend to see that waaaaaay differently?
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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2012, 08:57:33 AM »
If it wasnt for Stern, blokes like Johnh Borg, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez and twenty others wouldnt be designing pinballs. Its a funny thing, that in the end, Stern was the saviour, the only continuer of the pinball industry worldwide. I am looking forward to the new titles in 2013.
OK, you obviously have a very colored vision favoring Sten. That's fine. However, there are 2 sides to a coin. Your savior is also the one who limited all these talented designers in their work and in the eyes of many practically forced them to put out half finished cut down games with crappy licensed themes or crappy execution. So yes all the big names were designing games thanks to Gary, but probably not the games would want to design because your savior held them back. The only theory we can't test: what would have happened if Stern had never been there? Would other people have stepped up and started a factory? Who knows what great games that could have resulted in. If Gary is such a hero for pinball, how come most industry insiders tend to see that waaaaaay differently?
Industry ‘Insiders’, hey?

Every one who owns a business will tell you that every one else thinks they know how to run your business 10x better than you

I think printing a paper magazine in today’s wired world is a dumb idea

Rumor has it that Bally/Williams pinball division did not make any profit in its last few years
It took Gene 3 years to assemble <200 machines from an existing design
It has taken Jersey Jack more then two and a half years to get Woz to where it is now, and I do not believe his customers will get their machines this year

Stern IS building and selling games, sure, some of Garry’s decisions seem weird, but he continues to run his business


If it was easy, every one would be doing it

Offline Freiherr

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2012, 09:14:08 AM »
Quote
If it was easy, every one would be doing it
+1 and well said.

A lot of talent to pay for at Stern every month - something must be right with Gary's business model.
The Stern story would be good in a glossy magazine. Look forward to a read.
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Offline Homepin

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2012, 09:35:11 AM »
If it was easy, every one would be doing it


Ain't that the truth!!!
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2012, 11:13:09 AM »
If it wasnt for Stern, blokes like Johnh Borg, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez and twenty others wouldnt be designing pinballs. Its a funny thing, that in the end, Stern was the saviour, the only continuer of the pinball industry worldwide. I am looking forward to the new titles in 2013.
OK, you obviously have a very colored vision favoring Sten. That's fine. However, there are 2 sides to a coin. Your savior is also the one who limited all these talented designers in their work and in the eyes of many practically forced them to put out half finished cut down games with crappy licensed themes or crappy execution. So yes all the big names were designing games thanks to Gary, but probably not the games would want to design because your savior held them back. The only theory we can't test: what would have happened if Stern had never been there? Would other people have stepped up and started a factory? Who knows what great games that could have resulted in. If Gary is such a hero for pinball, how come most industry insiders tend to see that waaaaaay differently?

Ok, I hear what you are saying, and I totally agree to a few points. Some Stern games were on the basic side with little or no interactive toys. This was during the GFC period where Stern was doing it tough and had to cost cut to survive, but they have come out the other side and things are looking up, AC/DC and X  Men games show that with a very good, if not great machine being produced to show that games are now got all the bells n whistles.

Re the designers having been held back, definately true cause every designer wants to put ""everything"" into a game, but ultimately, in a difficult economic climate "someone" who is Gary Stern has to pay for it, and if the budget isnt there, its not there ! So Gary, as CEO did his job and kept the company open without overspending. Its a compromise none the less, but it probably had to be done.

The pinball insiders might have different opinions, but at the end of the day, no one likes getting told what to do, and Gary is the Boss, no one likes the boss when he tells u what to do, when he makes u do it his way, but he is the boss, and probably the only one who knows everything about his business, the financial big picture as such so ultimately, he has the final say. I look forward to meeting Gary and as many of the guys as I can on my trip to Stern next year.

Re the pinball magazine being produced in the wireless/techno internet age, i like the hardcopy/magazine idea, because you want something to collect, to hold in your hands n keep, so I like the fact the magazine is being made. BUT, dont give STERN too much of a hard time,lol or they wont let u do a magazine story on them.lol

Gav, re Williams, they went broke in the end and had to walk away, the shareholders demanded it probably. They werent profitable, it seems no one was in those years. But thank the stars they produced all the great games they did so we can enjoy them today. Gary is a astute business man. He saw a opening and took it. Again, good on him, cause it gives us pinball fans new pinnys to play with.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 02:25:42 PM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
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My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline PinballMagazine

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »
I'm not gonna copy/paste the whole thing above, but again you seem to have a very colored vision favoring all decisions Gary Stern is making. Still fine, but it also seems some rumors may have lead to that colored vision. I read a post on Pinside where Gary was described as a typical american car manufacturer. His way of doing business has a lot of similarities. To you Gary is your hero, others have a different opinion, based on other information. Nothing more, nothing less.

Obviously there is a difference between industry insiders with a passion for pinball, who know how the business works and see what possibilities and innovations are available but unused, and outsiders who base their opinion on rumors and speculation. At he moment there are at least 4 new companies starting up pinball manufacturing and they all have the same drive: they are disappointed by the output of the past decade and want to bring the fun back in pinball. I'm not saying it is easy, but I played the whitewood of Circe's Animal House and that game had more fun in it than I have seen in a long time with new games. (That may be my colored view on things speaking ;) ) Sure you may appreciate what Stern has put out, but there are also opinions who see the 'damage' that Stern games have caused in the form of operators quitting on buying new games. You may be happy with those games, but plenty operators were not and gave up on pinball. It will take new companies to win these over again, cause they most likely won't be interested in pinball as long as Stern keeps doing what they did so far.

Whether you like the idea of a collectible printed glossy paper magazine, or not, if you would read issue 1 you may discover some great inside background info. There is a chart with B/W pinball production numbers which shows that after Demolition Man in 1994 it took until Revenge from Mars to match the numbers of that production run. All 24 games in between sold less than RFM. Since rumors are brought up: what I've been told the B/W pinball division did make money, especially when Pinball 2000 was launched. However, they did not enough money to keep shareholders happy. They saw more profit in making casino equipment, so WMS went that way. That may put things in a different light. Contrary to some opinions WMS did not go broke. They still exist and are very successful. They just closed the pinball division for whatever reasons they had at the time.

Since the BBB production was brought up: I assisted in that production. I went over for a month and put all sorts of parts together. I know why it took Gene 3 years to build these games. Apart from dealing with all sorts of issues with third parties, he wants to things his way (stubbornness seems to be a required qualofication for pinball manufacturers ;) ). So it took him 3 years, but he delivered a killer game. There were easier ways, but Gene figured they would not be true to the original game. That's a choice he made. Interestingly the biggest bashers of the BBB project did not buy a game. So why did they care anyway? The people who ordered one were confident and got their game.
JJP announced WoZ January 1st 2011. In my book that's not 2 and a half year ago, just over 1 and a half.
I knew about Heighway Pinball since January of this year. In august they had a smooth playing whitewood. That shows it is becoming easier to make pinball machines. I can only hope they can get their production up and running soon.

So yes, Stern is still building and selling games. to go back to a comment at the beginning of this topic: I can understand why someone would say: of all the pinball manufacturers in the world, why did it have to be Stern to keep the ball rolling.

As for a PM issue on Stern's history: the 80's games/company may be interesting to cover, but I doubt if we'll see a Gary Stern special anytime soon. A special on Australian manufacturers and their games seems more interesting to me.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 03:12:03 PM by PinballMagazine »
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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2012, 03:58:56 PM »
JJP announced WoZ January 1st 2011. In my book that's not 2 and a half year ago, just over 1 and a half.

Go back to the first Spooky podcast where Jack first talks about WoZ
in the podcast he mentions that work on Woz had started 12 months prior

April 18 is the first time the public sees anything from Woz, Dorithys house
Jack would have to have been fairly along in the design prosess to even be working on 'Toys'




Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2012, 04:17:28 PM »
I wouldnt say Gary Stern is anyones hero, but being a business owner myself, I have to respect the fact that Stern has produced, survived and stayed profitable. Results count, money in the bank counts and he has certainly done that.
Selling anything considered a non essential product, espescially a luxury item like a pinball machine is a huge accomplishment today.
Even selling a product to operators who place pinball machines onsite is going to be extremely difficult.

Coming up with that "hit game" time after time would be a huge task. Having to invent something "new" every pinball game is also near impossible. People have to be realistic. These designers have to be like magicians these days. Small budgets, small design windows, and a ever impatient customer base who expects perfection and brilliance is a hard ship to sail.  

The pinball machine production business is very much like a car manufacturing company, but Stern has one percent of the start up capital, if that, and a end sale price of say $5,000, yet Stern have to do the same work that companies like Ford/General Motors have to do to produce a car, a new model, or 3 or 4 new models each year. Not a easy task.
Anyone seen a profitable USA car maker in the last 12 years. No. Stern have done better than billionaire car companies when u think about it !
Stern makes profit where none of the USA car makers could. That shows Gary Stern is a smart operator to me anyway.

Not everyone will like Stern or hold them in high esteem, but at least we have new pinball titles to look forward to.
Also, JJP has made Gary Stern look alot smarter. JJP has plenty of money, and it hasnt got him over the line yet with one game, and he had pre-orders which Stern doesnt do, that shows its a very very hard business after all. Its taken JJP almost 2 years to make one game, and its not finished.
Yes he was a new start up, but its irrelevant, it takes years to get these processes right.

Even extremely profitable companies worldwide have gone broke this last 5 years or so, but again Stern have stayed open in a luxury market.
Not a easy task. Looking forward, things look positive for Stern fans.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 04:20:29 PM by Caveoftreasures »
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Offline Homepin

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2012, 04:39:57 PM »
Oh NO!!! Not that old chestnut "Toyotas are the most reliable car on the planet" - please, spare me!
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