The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: infinite1977 on December 13, 2009, 08:41:40 PM
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Hey guys, just got the cabinet. As the backglass was worse than what I originally thought I got it a little cheaper again. The sound board was included so I put that in its place. I guess the next step is to start getting the boards and displays. If anyone has any advice as to where to start on this unit feel free. I have no idea. Here are some pics
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Some more pics
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Looks like a good starting point First thing id be doing is getting a power supply board that way you can make sure you can get power to the game before spending big money on boards. Ill take a look im sure i have a few spare power supply boards ^^^
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Sweet, let us know if you find one. Whats the best way to clean the cab? Just to get all that black gunk off? Soapy water and brush, or will that damage the paint work?
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A nice summer project - congrats !
I use a bucket of water and some nifti. Use a wet rag, spray on some nifti (on to the rag) and away you go - rinse and spray. Try a few test spots first.
Did you get legs with it ?
All the electronic boards are here - including displays ;
http://www.rottendog.us/products.htm
I would probably buy all from one source.
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No legs Nino. Yeah I saw the link for the boards. Cheers for that. Will have to save the money and get them all in one hit I think.
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Do you need any temporary legs?
I've got a couple of sets down stairs...Chrome or black I think. They are in fair condition. Let me know which ones you want and I'll give them to ya!
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Sweet. I would probably go for the Chrome ones Marty. I am more than happy to pay for them though.
How do I get them from you, can I come and pick them up, from memory your not too far from me.
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Alrighty, I'll dig em out and drop them off a bit later in the week if OK? They're for free. I can't remember if the bright chrome ones or the dull ones are there. Eitherway no charge, they will get your pin off the ground and thats the main thing. Bit easier to work on.
PM me your address and we'll tee up a time.
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Cheers Marty, I really appreciate it. Will send you address now.
Thanks again.
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More images for you. I even managed to find where the sound board goes hehe.
http://s799.photobucket.com/albums/yy279/infinite1977/
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Have some more pics posted on my photobucket page, also have some pics of my Getaway which got re-decaled. Turned out ok considering.
http://s799.photobucket.com/albums/yy279/infinite1977/
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P.S thanks to Marty for the legs, they worked a treat. Next mission, will get on to ddtoys and get a copy of the manual off him :)
Thanks again everyone. Now to begin the clean up and get the thing going.
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No probs at all.
I reckon the cab should clean up well by looking at those photos.
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I finally got a copy of that Manual for you did you PM me your email address and ill send em to you ^^^
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and pm me your email address - I've got scans of some of the plastics.
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Hey george look what i found &&
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Ok, I got my powerboard and all the fuses. I am going to place it in and see what happens. I just need to work our what gets plugged into what. If I have any troubles I will yell out. Any advice before I blow shit up???
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Dont plug the cpu or driver board in just the main power supply then measure it with a multi meter follow the pin repair guide and you will be fine
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm#fuses
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Hmm there is a problem with the "j2 " connection, it doesnt seem to click in onto the powerboard, also I am missing the cables that go across the top of the back box into the power board, so there will be no power testing tonight. I will contact the guy I got it off to see if he has those power cables, other wise I will need to source them from somewhere.
P>S Daniel/Dave, I will be posting that into out tomorrow, sorry just got really busy.
Cheers
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No worries let me know if you find them cable i might have one here ^^^
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Hey guys pardon the stupid question but in regards to my above post, is the cable missing Wms System 3-7 Logic Power Cable?
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P.S anyone know where I can get a Williams decal for the coin door? I cant seem to find any anywhere just a Bally one
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Ive never seen a williams Decal on the front door they usually have an aliminium plate with a red w on them in the center coin slot space
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It looks like the W is screen printed onto the plate, you could geta red vinyl copy cut out to look the same
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Have you got the wiring diagrams and schematics?
The ones from http://www.firepowerpinball.com/ particularly the backbox wiring will help for interconnections and voltage levels and identifying harnesses. I think I recall reading the GI wiring is run differently or fused in a different way on sys3 games, even though the power supply board is the same.
You should be able to do a fair bit of testing even without J2 as it is just the solenoid and lamp ground. The lamp supplies just passes through the power supply board via nothing other than fuse F3 and the solenoid supply has a few soothing caps, a protection varistor and is fused by F2 on the power supply board.
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OK, worked out issue with J2 connector. The female plug on the power board has some solder stuck in it, so I was able to remove it. Quite lucky, as I have never used a soldering iron and had a friend leave one here as he was sick of always bringing it over when ever I needed any wiring done. ^^^
so Now I have the power board ready to go and fused up, what exactly do I do to make sure it works. I have tried reading the pinrepair guide, but I just dont understand the terminology. I need someone to dumb it down for me. It is just a matter of running a mm onto it or something. If anyone can give me an idea of where to start that would be good.
I do no have any other boards on as yet so there should be no issue of damaging anything.
Cheers.
P.S cleaned up the inside of the back box a little as there were some old burn marks with the help of a friend. It is coming up ok. Will post some pics, and I also got my hands on some displays, just need one more cabe as I was one short. does anyone have one they are willing to part with? Need the one to go from the little display to the master. (Hope that makes sense.)
Cheers
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Ill try dumb it down for you.
Only plug in the two Square plugs between the fuses and the big blue thing then turn the machine on
With a multi meter measure
To test +12 volts set multi meter to DC and on 3J6 pin 6 (Red lead) use pin 11 to 15 of J6 for your ground (black wire) Between 10 - 14v should be seen
To test +5 volts with DC and on 3J6 pins 7 to 10 still using J6 pins 11 to 15 for your black lead 4.9 - 5.2v should be seen
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NOW FOR THE HIGH VOLTAGE SECTION
Does your multi meter have auto Range or do you have to set it to voltages?????
If you do have to set it make sure its set to the 100v range
now put the black lead on J5 pin 1 which is ground and put the red lead on J5 pin 3 hopefully its shows between 90 -110 volts if it does it working if it doesnt the board need work
Hope this helps do be carefull when testing dont short any pins with the multi meter *.*
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Thanks for that. I will try it out over the weekend. Your a legend
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P.S should all fuses be in?
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All fuses can be in as you dont have anything else connected ^^^
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Ok turned machine on and lights work which is positive. Tried using multimeter but got no readings, but this very well may be me and the multimeter.
I have taken a picture as there are some loose wires. Can someone tell me where they belong. P.S , when I turned it on there is a hum noise which sounds like an earth leak. (And the lights that came on were the playfield lights)
Cheers.
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Missing a Bridge Rectifier. Explained here;
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm#fuses
You can buy them from PSP or RTBB
Can you read the circuit diagram to install the BR ?
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Thanks Nino. I have no chance in reading that crap lol. I will buy it first as well as some other parts. Would you be interested in coming over one day for an hour (Paid of course) for a once over and to fix some odds and ends?
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It looks as if all the required leads are there George. Buy the rectifier that suits the spade connections and ill take a photo of which color goes where ^^^ is only 4 wires. And the transformers all seem to hum but its usually just the steel cage around them ^^^
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^^^
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P.S one of the posts that are attached to the spinner is missing. What is this post called as I cant seem to find it.
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Not sure what there called but you could use one of the metal posts PSP sells and put a cliffy over it ^^^
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George,
to be frank, I reckon it's madness trying to sort this wirng out without even looking at the wiring diagrms and schematics. My guess is you'll blow something up.
Honestly it's not that hard, the pic I've put in below is ripped form the power wiring diagram;
Spent some time looking at it - preferably the whole diagram - and seeing what bits are what - the plugs are drawn both pictorialy and as they are wired, 3J1 and 3J2 are the ones in your picture. 3J2 is the 6 pin one with two black wires going onto the bottom two pins numbered 6 and 3. So you can see the colur of the wires - don't rely totally on this as they are for Firepower - and you can see where the wires should be running. Both the black wires run to the negative terminal of the bridge rectifiers - as Nino says you are missing one. The one you've got is under the bunch of wire in the pic - so by following the wires from it, in conjunction with the diagram you'll b get to see where theyshould be going.
The reason the GIO lamps came on is because they are fed in the bottom yellow(ish) area through plug and socket 8P2 8J2.
Grab the power board drawing, it will show you where to measure voltages on the board.
The understanding won't happen immediately and you'll probbaly make a few mistakes, but far less than if you don't try with the diagram at all. Get all the diagrams in the link I put up, print them out and start scratching notes on them and asking questions - you'll know your machine so much better and probbaly enjoy the experience.
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Thanks Nino. I have no chance in reading that crap lol. I will buy it first as well as some other parts. Would you be interested in coming over one day for an hour (Paid of course) for a once over and to fix some odds and ends?
Happy to help out, George - Cost you a beer or two !
Firepower is right though - You do need to start to learn the basics - even if you make a start and I can check it for you prior to firing it up.
I can assist in explaining the notes as well.
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Thats it, I am sure we can all work it out.
P.S a friend told me to stop the back glass from flaking, I can clear coat it, is this correct, and is there a particular product I should use?
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Thanks for the explanation Dave, it is slowly making sense as you said. We will get this sucker fired up one way or another.
Cheers
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Thats it, I am sure we can all work it out.
P.S a friend told me to stop the back glass from flaking, I can clear coat it, is this correct, and is there a particular product I should use?
Krylon Triple Thick - I've used it before to arrest backglass peeling. Hard to find - usually stocked at spotlight, but I found it here as well;
http://www.birchhaby.com.au/ourrange.asp?cat=11&scat=136#expand
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Hey guys will be doing some work on the machine on Thursday, just a quick question. Would I still get voltage showing on my power board with the multi-meter even though the bridge rectifier is missing, I dont seem to get any voltage showing following what Daniel told me to do.
Also had a closer look at the loose cables and there are 3 black ones and 1 purple cable that will go to the rectifier. do they go in a particular order? Any luck of sending us that pic of yours Daniel?
Cheers
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You should still be seeing voltages on the board the missing rectifier will be for the coil voltage from memory.
Here is the photo i can email you the full sized one if you like ^^^
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Yeah I dont seem to get anything on my Multi meter on the 5v.
I might get you to email me that full size pic if you can. The colors on my machine a little different also, but I will try and follow the wires. I actually found the wiring diagrams also so I will try and use them as a guide.
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You might need the rectifier ground to get the 5V section up and running, depends on how the board is wired.
1. Measure the voltage on pins 10 and 11 on 3J1, the 12 pin plug (meter set to ac). You should get 18V ac between these. Do you?
2. If this is so now measure voltage on fuse F5, (meter set to dc, red lead on fuse, black lead on negative lead of the large 12,000uF cap) should be 11V dc. Doyou?
3. If you get these, measure between 3J5-6 and neg lead on capacitor in step 2. Should get 5V dc. Do you?
Let us know the answers.
Out of interest can you use the meter to measure a battery, say car or mobile phone, voltage? This will test the meter and your use of it.
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I will do the test Dave. This is literally the first time I am using a multi meter hence why I have asked for people to dumb it down for me:P
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You might need the rectifier ground to get the 5V section up and running, depends on how the board is wired.
1. Measure the voltage on pins 10 and 11 on 3J1, the 12 pin plug (meter set to ac). You should get 18V ac between these. Do you?
2. If this is so now measure voltage on fuse F5, (meter set to dc, red lead on fuse, black lead on negative lead of the large 12,000uF cap) should be 11V dc. Doyou?
3. If you get these, measure between 3J5-6 and neg lead on capacitor in step 2. Should get 5V dc. Do you?
Let us know the answers.
Dave , do you want me to turn the machine on and measure the pins on the plug?
Out of interest can you use the meter to measure a battery, say car or mobile phone, voltage? This will test the meter and your use of it.
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P.S tested meter on a AA battery and got 1.6v so the meter works
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Ok big day yesterday. Stripped play field with a fellow member, cleaned cabinet and soaked posts in warm water and windex as suggest by Daniel. Parts cleaned up a treat and the play field came up ok after one application of Novus. Will give it another going over today. Also sprayed the back glass with Tripple thick to stop flaking and that has worked a treat also. (Thanks Nino). Here are some pics, more to come.
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some more pics
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Some more pics:)
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Awesome work. That playfield and cabinet has come up a treat! Well done #*#
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Finally starting to take shape. I cant take all the credit, I have had help !!!
$#$
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Finally starting to take shape. I cant take all the credit, I have had help !!!
$#$
Nino is an excellent person to learn from. But on your next pin, you'll be doing more and more by yourself. Everyone starts out like this!
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I should have said this first, but make sure that the pin is on a circuit with a rcd / earth leakage protection. This is pretty good advise for any of us who fiddle inside pins. If the house doesn't have them in the switchboard get a portable plug in one to protect yourself. They cost next to nothing and may save your life, particularly if your not entirely sure of what you're touching. Seriously there is enough voltage within the cabinet to kill, so please take this warning and advice very seriously.
Good to hear the meter and you are working.
You can probably get the meter probes into the 3P1 plug from the back with it still plugged in. If not remove it from the board and then measure.
After I wrote this stuff yesterday I was thinking that since you are going to need a new bridge rectifier you may as well buy it and install it now. They can be bought at Jaycar part ZR1324 for $5.95. Look at the one you've got and see how it is wired up. The one pin that is set out of alignment to the others, with the nick on the bridge corner, is the positive; it will go to the psu board via 3P1. The two pins on either side of the positive are the ac in from the transformer and the other terminal is the negative to plug 3P2.
The playfield is looking really good.
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Looking good George thats coming up great.
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It looks excellent! Where did you get the triple thick from? I need to do my Winner glass.
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Homepin I don't want to offend anyone on here so I might not necessarily post who I got it from as it was from another pinball parts seller. I will pm you who I got it from, but that should let everyone else know almost who I got it from hehe, as I was in a hurry for it and could not find it anywhere. Hopefully my mate Jarod is not reading this hehe or he will not come over and help out any more :)
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Ok got the recifier, but am a little confused as I may have mis read wiring diagrams.
The retifier has + and AC (Top line) and AC - as the bottom two.
I have 1 black cable coming from the J6 plug and 3 cables coming from the back of the transformer. 1 purple and 2 black ones.
Where to from here? Where should the cable from the J6 plug go into? And I am assuming the purple one is significant also.
Cheers
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The ones from J6 will be your + and - the ones from your transformer will be the AC ^^^
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I also have a present here for you george ill post a photo once i find the other one that ive lost @.@
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Study that wiring diagram. The plug and the pin number within the plug will tell you where the wire should go (same as what Daniel says) . Trace out each wire, it will tell you a lot. From the transformer you should only have two spare wires with spade connectors (the sort that fit the bridge) - you'll have four spade terminated wires all up, but two of them are on you existing bridge. Again have a look at the wiring diagram - can't stress how important / invaluable it is, a picture and a thousand words and all that. On the one bridge you have in place measure the ac voltage, it'll either be 13 or 25 volts, the other two wires with spades from the transformer will have to be the other ac voltage going to the other bridge.
Also have read of the Marvin WMS repair guide - has a good section on power supply testing.
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Thanks for that, this is what is confusing me, I actually have three wires with the spade connectors coming from the power supply. I have attached another pic.
The other rectifier has all it's connectors so something is not quite right
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Sorry about this, but mentioned there should be two from the j6 plug. The other one is going to the capacitor in the picture.
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I think I found the wiring solution and do get voltage on the board, but I noticed that the large Silver capacitor is leaking from the top and started sparking. does this mean it needs replacing?
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I think I found the wiring solution and do get voltage on the board, but I noticed that the large Silver capacitor is leaking from the top and started sparking. does this mean it needs replacing?
It probably does now! It is possible that it is an electrolytic capacitor and that the polarity was reversed causing above symptoms.
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Ok boards have been re conditioned and returned. Machine is ready to be turned on, but just a little hesitant until I get the rectifier issue sorted.
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Please make sure all the voltages coming from the boards are correct before turning it on with the new boards attached if its not working properly you can cook your boards
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Yeah I know. Will trying to get someone here to look it over first
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As I was digging around I found a playfield mylar lying around. I am thinking about putting it on. I take it I just put in on then cut out the wholes etc after woods, is that right?
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If there is no massive wear on the playfield I'd leave it off. Its very difficult to put it on with bits cutout and if you end up with a crease it will impact on ball play. Try to lift it and you will lift paint.
Keep the playfield clean and waxed you should be fine.
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Yeah I know. Will trying to get someone here to look it over first
Mate - should have the time over this weekend. I'll have a quick look over it for you. Will cost you a couple of coldies $&&
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Thanks for the advice Marty. Nino, you can have the whole slab. Will have some Kiss blaring for you. I will be home the whole weekend, so just drop us a buzz.I appreciate it.
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Ok Nino the man has just left the building. Let me just say there is no way I could have done what he just did. I am forever in your debt.
Problems/Concerns found:
Power supply board was missing two diodes hence no 5v. This is being rectified.
Transformer still smells. Is this normal? Is there something that should be checked. It is reading a little high in it's voltage. Pumping through 250v. Reading some note that were made reading 29vac as opposed to 25.5vac.
Last issue solenoid is reading way too high 38v dc as opposed to 28v dc. Any suggestions?
Apart from that it all seemed to be ok, hopefully when I get the power supply board back we will get power to the displays.
Thanks again Nino.
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Power supply board was missing two diodes hence no 5v. This is being rectified.
That is an absolutely shocking pun.
Transformer still smells. Is this normal? Is there something that should be checked. It is reading a little high in it's voltage. Pumping through 250v. Reading some note that were made reading 29vac as opposed to 25.5vac.
Last issue solenoid is reading way too high 38v dc as opposed to 28v dc. Any suggestions?
Two thoughts;
- Firstly you have nothing connected up - which is the correct thing to do as the first tests and you would expect the no load voltages to be a bit higher.
- Secondly the transformer has a facility to allow it to be wired up for low (105 or 210V) input voltage conditions, you need to make sure it's not in this configuration. This is described on the power wiring diagram and involves making different connections on the transformer.
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Power supply board was missing two diodes hence no 5v. This is being rectified.
That is an absolutely shocking pun.
Transformer still smells. Is this normal? Is there something that should be checked. It is reading a little high in it's voltage. Pumping through 250v. Reading some note that were made reading 29vac as opposed to 25.5vac.
Last issue solenoid is reading way too high 38v dc as opposed to 28v dc. Any suggestions?
Two thoughts;
- Firstly you have nothing connected up - which is the correct thing to do as the first tests and you would expect the no load voltages to be a bit higher.
- Secondly the transformer has a facility to allow it to be wired up for low (105 or 210V) input voltage conditions, you need to make sure it's not in this configuration. This is described on the power wiring diagram and involves making different connections on the transformer.
Once I have repaired the Power supply, I'll check the config of the transformer ^^^. All other voltages are there, so we are looking good !
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#*#
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Ok, latest update on the world cup. Power board returned today, installed and success. The machine powers up, sound works. Thank you Nino, your blood is worth bottling.
Had some issues with displays initially. After further playing around discovered the following. Master display works fine. 2 displays work perfectly. (I did not realize each set of cables is wired for each output) silly me. One display is complete dead no power at all, and the 4th display only displays "LLLL" so I am thinking this display is not working also. I was one cable short, so I will picking it up tomorrow. I have managed to source some more displays O/S so I am thinking about getting them.
I also managed to source a set of plastics for the machine as well as the strange post that was missing from the spinner, so the play field will now also be complete. The only thing left now to my knowledge is to replace some missing coils and knocker and machine will be complete. #*# #*#
Will let you know. Thank again for the help and advice and I will thank you prematurely for the future advice :)
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Finally had my first game on the machine today. It seems to be quite fun. Everything works except two microswitches.
I will post some final pics on the weekend. I dont think I will do any more work to it right now. Eventually will look at touching up the back box as it has a chunk out of it in the corner.
Does anyone know what type of paint in needed on this?
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Sounds good George - It is a fun game to play and right in time for the World Cup. I've never repainted a WMS, so I'm not sure what paint they used. I think you might want to look at repainting the entire cabinet as the base (white) will be hard to match as they fade and yellow over time. You will be able to determine the correct color by looking behind the legs - remove one leg and you will see the factory white.
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Goodonya George - it's a fun game. I like the kick out holes where slings normally are - changes the way you play.
To test paints I've read;
- rub it with a rag damp with Turps - if the colour comes onto the rag its enamel
- rub it with a rag damp with acetone (nail polish remover) if it goes gooey it's a latex paint.
- not sure how to sort if it's acrylic? maybe neither of the above?
As to matching the colour, a bloody dog once ate half a door jam of mine painted in enamel paint. I took a scrape of colour to a paint shop with a colour matching scanner and they matched it. I painted half the door jam and it blended really well - you couldn't pick it. Might work on a pin?
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Ok here are some more pics of the WMS. Plays well, play field polished. I think it has come up well from what it was and I have certainly leaned heaps along the way which was the main intention.
Since pics are a large size and I am too lazy to re-size them, I have created a picasa web album. Here is the link for all those interested.
http://picasaweb.google.com/106879998800596875441/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCIGVs8OguIH88AE#
Hope that works
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Looks great George.
Well done!