System 80 Driver Board / Gottlieb Q's

[MartyJ]

Hi guys,

I've jumped off into the deep with my first Sys80 game (Black Hole).  So far I am enjoying it.  Playfield is out and so is mini to allow work in cabinet on power section.

I have three questions.

The first - the leg brackets in these early 80's Gottliebs.  Are they a standard thread (ie same leg bots as Williams/Bally) and same distance apart?  So in theory can the heavy duty brackets (WMS) be used?

Second question -

On my driver board, its out cleaned with iso & very hot water.  Board is not going back in for some time so plenty time to dry.

On the 2N3055 transistors - it appears that they have got quite hot at some stage.  Is this common or perhaps another issue?  I've tested them and reading wise they seem fine.

My final question is - testing the MPU 45

"quoted from pinrepair.com -
MPS-U45 and MPS-A13 transistors (driver board Q1 to Q57, and Q63). These transistors test the same in circuit and out of circuit.

Using a DMM (Digital Multi-Meter), put the meter on the "Diode" setting.
On the solder side of the board, put the RED lead of the DMM on the middle trace (the base) of the transistor.
Put the BLACK lead of the DMM on either of the other 2 transistor traces, testing each of the two leads one at a time. A reading of about 1.3 on the emitter (ground) lead, and .7 on the collector should be seen. Anything within .1 of these values is good. On the MPS-U45's, the emitter is the transistor lead closest to the bottom edge connectors.
If getting zero or no reading for a test, that transistor is bad.
If a reading of .4 to .6 is seen, good chance that transistor is probably bad too.
If in doubt, compare the readings of the transistor in question to the other surrounding transistors of the same type. They should all read about the same value."

IS there another way to test these.  I do not seem to be getting anything even close to these readings?

Thanks in advance

[MartyJ]

OK, I've just confirmed that the above method is correct...

For some reason on all the MPS-U45's & A-13's all the ground emitters seem to be getting a null reading.

It seems strange that is is common on all?  The board is out - so technically it is not connected to any ground but I've done mine the same as PinRepair guides

[chris288]

Sometimes testing them in circuit is a bit hit and miss.
I think the only way to do it properley is out of circuit, but thats a pain on these boards because theres about 30 MPSU45s.
And, ive had transistors that test ok but break down under load.

Pinball Resource have these on special at the moment at USD$87.50 but with freight and exchange rate thats likely to be about $200 Aussie. But still having a new known "good" board would be handy to compare and fault find that one.

Be careful withe the MPSU45s because the legs break off easily and they are usually soldered close to the board which makes removing them quite hard.

The 2n3055 burn marks are quite common. Ive got them on several of my boards. Maybe they all should have had heatsinks on them, but then again there are a lot of things on System80s which could have been done a whole lot better. I think they even say that somewhere in the Marvin guides too. Inadequate ground plains, underated transistors used , etc.

[MartyJ]

Sometimes testing them in circuit is a bit hit and miss.
I think the only way to do it properley is out of circuit, but thats a pain on these boards because theres about 30 MPSU45s.
And, ive had transistors that test ok but break down under load.

Pinball Resource have these on special at the moment at USD$87.50 but with freight and exchange rate thats likely to be about $200 Aussie. But still having a new known "good" board would be handy to compare and fault find that one.

Be careful withe the MPSU45s because the legs break off easily and they are usually soldered close to the board which makes removing them quite hard.

The 2n3055 burn marks are quite common. Ive got them on several of my boards. Maybe they all should have had heatsinks on them, but then again there are a lot of things on System80s which could have been done a whole lot better. I think they even say that somewhere in the Marvin guides too. Inadequate ground plains, underated transistors used , etc.

I thought about testing out of circut, but removing them all I think I would do more damage than good.

I may have an option locally with another board first, otherwise RTBB has a NOS one or I could look at a Rottendog replacement.  With all of them getting a bad reading- I didn't want to admit defeat on this board but I suspect its gone!

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Marty,

It does seem strange that all would be stuffed, very strange.  If you want to take a drive to Koo Wee Rup we can test it in one of my machines.  Or post it to me and I will test it for you.  Using East Link its prob only an hours drive from Eltham to here.  East link to Monash - Monash through Berwick to 3rd Pakenham exit (Pakenham Koo Wee Rup Rd) and 10 mins from Pakenham to my place.

Let me know your thoughts.

Dean

[silverball]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

[Strangeways]

Marty - Check all the playfield fuses and EVERY coil on the machine.

I have three driver boards in front of me, and all three have still got the original transistors (8026). So if you have the 2n3055 transistors installed, then the ORIGINALS may have been replaced at some stage. Someone may have replaced the transistors due to a fault during its route days.

I'm measuring .674 on all collectors, nothing on the emitter. This is with the board out of circuit. All my boards are out of projects, so they are untested.

You are welcome to borrow my board.

[Pinfan]

Hey Marty love the board holder.... 

Where did you score that ?

[MartyJ]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

will do on sat Dave. thanks again! great service..

thanks for offer Dean. will try swap over first otherwise will let you know!

Nino - playfield is out & everything will be checked. power section will be looked at. might need a working B to help!.  machine I think will clean up very nice!!!

[Strangeways]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

will do on sat Dave. thanks again! great service..

thanks for offer Dean. will try swap over first otherwise will let you know!

Nino - playfield is out & everything will be checked. power section will be looked at. might need a working B to help!.  machine I think will clean up very nice!!!

Just let me know if there is anything you need Marty !

BTW - where's the resto thread 

PIX !!

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

will do on sat Dave. thanks again! great service..

thanks for offer Dean. will try swap over first otherwise will let you know!

Nino - playfield is out & everything will be checked. power section will be looked at. might need a working B to help!.  machine I think will clean up very nice!!!

Just let me know if there is anything you need Marty !

BTW - where's the resto thread 

PIX !!

Yeah lots of Pics...Its a Black Hole for f**K sake.  There awesome..WE NEED PICS 

[MartyJ]

Marty - Check all the playfield fuses and EVERY coil on the machine.

I have three driver boards in front of me, and all three have still got the original transistors (8026). So if you have the 2n3055 transistors installed, then the ORIGINALS may have been replaced at some stage. Someone may have replaced the transistors due to a fault during its route days.

I'm measuring .674 on all collectors, nothing on the emitter. This is with the board out of circuit. All my boards are out of projects, so they are untested.

You are welcome to borrow my board.

Thanks Nino,

Been away for a couple of days.  AP is very hard to read on a mobile phone! - and expensive...

Interesting that you are getting similar readings....hmm

[MartyJ]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

will do on sat Dave. thanks again! great service..

thanks for offer Dean. will try swap over first otherwise will let you know!

Nino - playfield is out & everything will be checked. power section will be looked at. might need a working B to help!.  machine I think will clean up very nice!!!

Just let me know if there is anything you need Marty !

BTW - where's the resto thread 

PIX !!

Yeah lots of Pics...Its a Black Hole for f**K sake.  There awesome..WE NEED PICS 

No thread as yet unfortunately.  This ones going to be a long term (by that within 4 months)..

Unfortunately I've got a couple of non-pinball related things taking priority for the next month & a half, so I'm only able to spend a few hours a week.  Will document when things are moving along better.
ITs a great machine to start with and will get lots of loving attention a BH deserves!

Hey Marty love the board holder.... 

Where did you score that ?

Board holder - a must.  Its a Weller and purchased from Soanar in Melbourne.

[MartyJ]

We have a couple of system 80's,you are welcome to come in and do a free swap or take a board to test and compare as we discussed.

will do on sat Dave. thanks again! great service..

thanks for offer Dean. will try swap over first otherwise will let you know!

Nino - playfield is out & everything will be checked. power section will be looked at. might need a working B to help!.  machine I think will clean up very nice!!!

Just let me know if there is anything you need Marty !

BTW - where's the resto thread 

PIX !!

Yeah lots of Pics...Its a Black Hole for f**K sake.  There awesome..WE NEED PICS 

Dean,

If you are able to do me (another) huge favour - would you be able to check one of your Sys80 driver boards via PinRepair method to see what readings you get on a known good board?

I'm a little puzzled that Nino's are getting the same results as mine.

[Strangeways]

I'll pull out another Driver board as well.