The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: ddstoys on April 21, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
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Can't believe it just jumped on the pin repair website and it's no longer available for free anyone else find this? I'm more than happy to pay as it worth every cent but man what a shame
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Yeah .. just tried it to find the same .. but for $10 USD + shipping its worth it I reckon ..
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I have no problem paying the $10 JUST to support the cause. The Marvin guides were a great resource all those years ago, and were always updated.
Personally, I credit Steve Young and Clay Harrell as the forefathers of what we call "Pinball Restoration". Without these guys, we would not be where we are today *%*
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Seems to be a bit of hoo hah on RGP from guys that submitted their $10 worth of knowledge and that Clay may not have the right to allow their intellectual property to be sold.
It is a shame that the guides are now protected.
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I can see both sides of the story. I'm still not fussed about it. It might be a collection of repair tips from various authors - but it was put together by one person and credit given to those who contributed.
For those "really hard technical problems" - post them on our forum. One of the locals will work it out ^^^ ^^^
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That is a big shame, but still nuthin's free these days anymore. I guess it all costs money to host a site that supplies handy info like this essentially for free.
I'm happy I printed out and put into a clear binder book the Bally, Williams, and EM repair guides when I had the chance to. I remember thinking that this stuff wont be free forever.
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I have most of it saved on my laptop for taking to the shed but will definately get a copy on cd
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Thank goodness for the internet archive I suppose
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
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Back many months I did save the Bally (1977-1985) and EM repair guides as MHTML documents. Not sure if I would now get in the poos for emailing this to anyone if they needed it?
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I had all the wms stuff saved but now I have saved them all. I am doing this with anything & every thing to do with any pinball now. I like to keep a copy of manuals and eproms as they also are disappearing. If only some one had given us a heads up before balls of steel was removed !!! .
It is not so bad in this case because you can pay $10 and access the documentation. What I really hate is when files / software is removed from the web due to copyright reasons but no one has the licence to sell the files or the person who has the rights does not sell the software or files. The way I look at it is this, if no one with a licence wants to sell the software, image or hardware then make it free. Then if the licensed person decides to make the item and sell it, remove the free copy of it. The one thing I keep in mind is just because you can download it today doesn't mean you will still be able to download it next month. Before I bought my second pin i used to use VP mame, I could download nearly any table and rom set for nearly any pin, but now most of them are no longer available.
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I always expected Pinrepair to just disappear one day.. not be accessable for a fee.
personally, im a bit miffed about it, but in all honesty, i havent used the guide for bloody ages.
WMS sys 3-7 i printed off some years back...wish i had done the same for the EM start up sequences... but really... weve all read them over and over and we can pretty much fix our machines without them now i reckon.
These guides were a lifesaver to find out HOW the machines functioned... once this is known, life is easier.
Remember.... Leon is still free
http://www.flipper-pinball-fan.be/
At the end of the day, i guess if i start doing WMS sys11 and such, ill have to buy the damn thing.
.. thinking on it... i have some of it on disc already... wil go check.
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Years ago i started downloading and saving ALL of Clays pinball repair/restoration guides for all the different makes of pins, and i would check for updates regularly (i did that just a couple of months ago). I even printed out some of them for use if i had to go and repair someones pin in their home in case they were needed *%* and anything i dont have printed out, i have them on my laptop comp if needed. I did the same thing with manuals, especially some Gtb manuals (for my own games mainly) before they were all removed from the web.
I too think its a shame they are now gone, it was always handy to just jump on the website and look up info, but i would also pay for a disc if i had to. Anyway i will be saving them all onto disc in case something goes wrong with the computer.
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I had a link to pinrepair on my website, which I beleive is great reference material for all. Have already sent $ to purchase CD.
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Hey guys, has there been an announcement or comment from clay?
I found the link to buy the dvd ($15 to AU which is chickenfeed) at http://pacificpinball.org/visit/pinball-swag
but, they state they dont provide U/P for pinrepair, only the dvd.
I'm happy to pay for the U/P so I can always get the updated info.
andrew
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What's U/P andrew
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What's U/P andrew
Sorry, Username & Password.
The site now asks for a username and password apart from on the indexes.
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The U/P is just for the administration apparently - for your $10 you get a CD-ROM, no access to the site. Seems to be lots of controversy going on about it, will be interesting to see what happens.
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The U/P is just for the administration apparently - for your $10 you get a CD-ROM, no access to the site. Seems to be lots of controversy going on about it, will be interesting to see what happens.
$15 for O/S
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Thank goodness for the internet archive I suppose
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
Haha, I just tried to login to aussiepinball through that archive.org site.
It gave me sometime in 2009 but I couldn't login. I was trying to get the previous restorations that AP has forgotten/removed.
It told me the exact time and what members were on.
It was a webpage without software (No Brains! lol)
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Thank goodness for the internet archive I suppose
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
Haha, I just tried to login to aussiepinball through that archive.org site.
It gave me sometime in 2009 but I couldn't login. I was trying to get the previous restorations that AP has forgotten/removed.
It told me the exact time and what members were on.
It was a webpage without software (No Brains! lol)
Not one restoration has ever been removed, Mitch - everything is still here !
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The internet archive still has the snap shot of the guides as at 2009 here -
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
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Thank goodness for the internet archive I suppose
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
Haha, I just tried to login to aussiepinball through that archive.org site.
It gave me sometime in 2009 but I couldn't login. I was trying to get the previous restorations that AP has forgotten/removed.
It told me the exact time and what members were on.
It was a webpage without software (No Brains! lol)
Not one restoration has ever been removed, Mitch - everything is still here !
Thats odd... I thought Studley67 Posted a restoration in Restorations of a Cleopatra (His and mine first restro) around March/May 2009 *!@
I can never find it !!!
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Type in "cleopatra" in the search box ;
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=1112.0
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=956.0
I don't recall EVER removing a thread *.*
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i never made a resto thread,its in generl dis.its still there mate, () march 2009
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Type in "cleopatra" in the search box ;
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=1112.0
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=956.0
I don't recall EVER removing a thread *.*
i never made a resto thread,its in generl dis.its still there mate, () march 2009
@.@ :lol
Oops, oh well... I have found them again! I love looking back on things. #*#
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Those who subscribe to Pinball News Updates would have got this:
Finally, we can’t leave without a word about the pinball repair guides which have disappeared from pinrepair.com (previously www.marvin3m.com/fix.htm).
I’m sure many of you have used them over the years and if you haven’t been following the somewhat heated discussions on rec.games.pinball, here’s a dispassionate summary what APPEARS to have happened:
- Clay (who complied, wrote most of, and hosted the guides) thought it would be a good way to raise money for the Pacific Pinball Museum if the guides were taken down on-line and only available upon a small ($11) donation to the museum.
- A CD of the guides would then be sent out to those who donated.
- The guides contained information or even whole sections from other authors, some of who wanted their information to continue to be freely available to everyone, and not ‘sold’ in this way.
- Others said CDs were of no use to them, as they used tablets/phones/netbooks to access the information on-line and couldn’t use a CD.
- No CDs are now going to be sent out.
- Any donations have been returned.
- The guides are no longer on the pinrepair.com website
- A new community-built repair site is being established at:
www.pinwiki.com
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Thats a bit bizarre!!!
For Pinrepair am i to take it that IF they cant sell it then it wont be available at all??
So Pacific pinball Museum is still the same as it was without the extra funding ( managed beforehand OK) but the guides are removed for good cos Clay no longer wants them to be free even though they were a repair guide made up from free intellectual donations??
!@# !@#
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Thats a bit bizarre!!!
For Pinrepair am i to take it that IF they cant sell it then it wont be available at all??
So Pacific pinball Museum is still the same as it was without the extra funding ( managed beforehand OK) but the guides are removed for good cos Clay no longer wants them to be free even though they were a repair guide made up from free intellectual donations??
!@# !@#
The problem now is whether Clay can reverse this possibly well-intentioned but failed decision despite the ego road-block. Hope so, but not confident. I suspect he might manage that if the pinwiki gets really going. The longer he waits, the less needed it will be, so maybe it'll be soon.
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CFH can be pretty hard-headed sometimes (understatement?) but such is the way of many smart folks I've run across in life. So I'm hopeful that the guides will be available again, but not very optimistic unfortunately. He did a lot of good work putting them together and I hope he's thick-skinned enough not to let the inevitable few insult mongers kill the effort for the rest of the world.
So thus the "death of pinball" after B/W closed shop was revived for hundreds and probably thousands of folks who would not have reanimated machines and started collecting had it not been for the repair guides. The were so well written and thorough. Amazing really - I have yet to see such a vast store of knowledge on any other subject just out there on the net for folks to go and get. If the guides disappear for good, I fear that the hobby will choke to death. All for egos and $$ apparently. A shame. Too soon to say as yet though I guess, so excuse my jumping the gun.
I have saved what is in the posted archives, though there are a lot of broken image links. At least the text is there which is better than nothing. If I had the current guides saved, after giving time for the dust to settle and see if the death is permanent, I'd upload it to my own web space for my own personal storage and see if the link ever got accidentally leaked. Oops.
I hoped to get back onto pinball sometime again, having sold all but one machine quite a while back. I may still do it and it depends more on my own security rather than the guides of course. But if I do I hope I can access that info or I would be hesitant to save an old broken machine again. I'm too stupid to fix those machines without tapping that resource.
Maybe in a year or so I'll get back into it and more active in the hobby.
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If I had the current guides saved, after giving time for the dust to settle and see if the death is permanent, I'd upload it to my own web space for my own personal storage and see if the link ever got accidentally leaked. Oops.
If you do decide to do this && , I uploaded a recent version of the EM stuff only a month ago I can send you mate ^^^
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I downlaoded it and I also (painstakingly) grabbed all (well most anyway) of the pics..... <..>
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Try here
http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/fix.htm
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Anyone needing access to the pinrepair manuals can use this link:
http://replay.web.archive.org/200902...pinrepair.com/
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As a minor contributor to the once publicly available pinrepair site,I now think "why bother". I contributed a couple of things in the understanding that the information would be freely available for the common good and knowledge of fellow pinball enthusiasts. Then to have it disappear.......very disappointing.
In the least, I'll always continue to put any mods I come up with on my website. http://home.pacific.net.au/~jennyah/index.html
Mark
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Try here
http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/fix.htm
This link works,,shell l down load it, or will it be allways on the net?
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I'd be making your copy. The Wayback Machine is now disallowing the most recent archived version (2009) presumably at Clay's request - if so, he's really taken the ball this time!!
User-agent: *
Disallow: /wpc/
Disallow: /bally/
Disallow: /em/
Disallow: /pin2000/
Disallow: /6803/
Disallow: /sys1/
Disallow: /sys3
Disallow: /sys80/
Disallow: /sys37/
Disallow: /sys11/
Disallow: /de/
Disallow: /gp/
Disallow: /restore/
Disallow: /cgi-bin/
Only a matter of time before he gets that version removed too.
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I'd be making your copy. The Wayback Machine is now disallowing the most recent archived version (2009) presumably at Clay's request - if so, he's really taken the ball this time!!
User-agent: *
Disallow: /wpc/
Disallow: /bally/
Disallow: /em/
Disallow: /pin2000/
Disallow: /6803/
Disallow: /sys1/
Disallow: /sys3
Disallow: /sys80/
Disallow: /sys37/
Disallow: /sys11/
Disallow: /de/
Disallow: /gp/
Disallow: /restore/
Disallow: /cgi-bin/
Only a matter of time before he gets that version removed too.
Two Words: THAT SUCKS!
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Anybody have a more current version or have the missing pictures from the now "disallowed" archive? Send me a PM. Even the older version is better than nuthin'. This underhanded crying game rubs me the wrong way and I'll be glad to slip something underneath the power trip and serve the community.
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Anybody have a more current version or have the missing pictures from the now "disallowed" archive? Send me a PM. Even the older version is better than nuthin'. This underhanded crying game rubs me the wrong way and I'll be glad to slip something underneath the power trip and serve the community.
There is a torrent that has almost all of it - an older version but still worthwhile IMO. WARNING 65Mb
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6343457/Pin_repair_guide
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Anybody have a more current version or have the missing pictures from the now "disallowed" archive? Send me a PM. Even the older version is better than nuthin'. This underhanded crying game rubs me the wrong way and I'll be glad to slip something underneath the power trip and serve the community.
Vince, did the EM files come through ok mate?
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As a minor contributor to the once publicly available pinrepair site,I now think "why bother". I contributed a couple of things in the understanding that the information would be freely available for the common good and knowledge of fellow pinball enthusiasts. Then to have it disappear.......very disappointing.
In the least, I'll always continue to put any mods I come up with on my website. http://home.pacific.net.au/~jennyah/index.html
Mark
I also contributed a small section in the EM Guide. It was an interesting problem with the Ball Count unit that I found in my Sky Jump.
I just checked out your website - The replacement for the WMS Match Unit and the replacement 9602 on the Bally MPU board. Excellent !
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Anybody have a more current version or have the missing pictures from the now "disallowed" archive? Send me a PM. Even the older version is better than nuthin'. This underhanded crying game rubs me the wrong way and I'll be glad to slip something underneath the power trip and serve the community.
There is a torrent that has almost all of it - an older version but still worthwhile IMO. WARNING 65Mb
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6343457/Pin_repair_guide
I think that is the "http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/fix.htm" version.
There doesn't seem to be any Gottlieb guides.
Try this one:http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/289564965/pin+repair?tab=summary
I am downloading it right now, so far it looks good, 345MB though.
This is the quote from the readme file "This is the saved site pinrepair.com , as of April 2011 it has changed to a pay site. enjoy "
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As a minor contributor to the once publicly available pinrepair site,I now think "why bother". I contributed a couple of things in the understanding that the information would be freely available for the common good and knowledge of fellow pinball enthusiasts. Then to have it disappear.......very disappointing.
Clay has put many hours of his own time, pretty much voluntary, into the pin repair site, This Old Pinball videos and podcast productions, etc. I understand he previously had a day job but was retrenched.The bloke has to eat. Maybe how he did it was a little sudden, but was a reaction to be taken for granted / expected to do things for nothing. He loves pinball. I'd "watch this space".
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As a minor contributor to the once publicly available pinrepair site,I now think "why bother". I contributed a couple of things in the understanding that the information would be freely available for the common good and knowledge of fellow pinball enthusiasts. Then to have it disappear.......very disappointing.
Clay has put many hours of his own time, pretty much voluntary, into the pin repair site, This Old Pinball videos and podcast productions, etc. I understand he previously had a day job but was retrenched.The bloke has to eat. Maybe how he did it was a little sudden, but was a reaction to be taken for granted / expected to do things for nothing. He loves pinball. I'd "watch this space".
Fair point, but if the aim was to make some money out of it, there are still plenty of ways to "dress it up" for consumers while still leaving a basic version for others.
I am sure that with correct marketing and things like interactive DVD's and such it would still be profitable even with the free version available online.
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As a minor contributor to the once publicly available pinrepair site,I now think "why bother". I contributed a couple of things in the understanding that the information would be freely available for the common good and knowledge of fellow pinball enthusiasts. Then to have it disappear.......very disappointing.
Clay has put many hours of his own time, pretty much voluntary, into the pin repair site, This Old Pinball videos and podcast productions, etc. I understand he previously had a day job but was retrenched.The bloke has to eat. Maybe how he did it was a little sudden, but was a reaction to be taken for granted / expected to do things for nothing. He loves pinball. I'd "watch this space".
Thought proceeds were to go to Pacific Pinball Museum?? Hell the guys need a sign at least!
Pinrepair is gone... egos are all over the shop.. ball is taken home and bottom lips are pouted.
Its this hobby i tell you..
Fact is that noone else made a site like Pinrepair cos there was already one... ya dont need 2 sites with the same stuff.
Clay paved the way, but has given up the throne... watch it get filled very quickly
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I think what Clay has done for the hobby has been immeasureable. The time and devotion cannot be questioned. Now that he has taken his bat and ball and gone home, someone else will fill his shoes. The Wiki is the start, and I hope it develops for newbies who are looking to get into the hobby.
The reality is that Clay's work was the combination of his hard work and that also consisted of contributions from other Pinball people. I can see that contributors might not be pleased that their contribution now has to be paid for. The exposure of the Marvin's guides and the wider audience that were attracted to it will simply follow the next leader. Forums, Wikis and the collector communities that have grown over the last 10 years won't disappear as quickly as the Guides.
If you need to know something, google is your friend and so is AP ^^^
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... that their contribution now has to be paid for.
That doesn't seem to be the problem. It's early in still I guess and maybe all is not resolved, but the problem seems to be that the guides (which I and most others would gladly pay some kind of fee) are now just gone and unavailable. Hard to make any money that way if that was the original goal. I wouldn't mind Clay making pretty good coin off the guides. They are superb. But making them disappear does no good for anyone. If done in anger or spite or something, which may not be the case at all - I'm just exampling, then technically that act isn't any good for the "offender" either.
I'm guessing there is a fair bit of complexity to the path that led here. I don't really want or need to know all the details. But IF the guides have been scattered to the ether, then it's just a disappointing shame. Yea I know, they are available through back-door sources, so it's not really gone actually. And I'm working on assembling the collection for my own use anyway.
Strange how these seemingly goofy events pops up so often in the hobby. At least the pinball history books will contain drama and political intrigue. I wonder if the needlepoint or bobblehead collectors have such sagas in their communities.
&^&
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Strange how these seemingly goofy events pops up so often in the hobby. At least the pinball history books will contain drama and political intrigue. I wonder if the needlepoint or bobblehead collectors have such sagas in their communities.
&^&
Yeah .. I can't believe the amount of 'politics' in this hobby. Geez , its just a hobby after all *!@
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Yes but its a hobby with plenty of money and plenty of big ego's
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Don't worry - it's just as bad at the Radio Control Flying Field I can assure you - probably worse actually!
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Strange how these seemingly goofy events pops up so often in the hobby. At least the pinball history books will contain drama and political intrigue. I wonder if the needlepoint or bobblehead collectors have such sagas in their communities.
&^&
Yeah .. I can't believe the amount of 'politics' in this hobby. Geez , its just a hobby after all *!@
Absolutely ! But our hobby has to be one of the more expensive hobbies, and where's there is money there is greed etc. I've had the pleasure to meet some great characters who have opened the doors to their gamesrooms and I've played some games I would never have played otherwise.
I'm not sure on the history of why Clay really removed his guides, but I'm sure it will resurface (for free) down the track. Most pinheads I know have already got a copy.
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I archived the 2009 version both in web form and PDF, so if anyone needs a specific section, I can help. Web links within don't work of course, but easy enough to navigate.
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Hey Guys
Just to let you know, I received this email today:
As the author of the pinball repair guides from
http://www.pinrepair.com
PLEASE remove my guides from your website.
What you are doing is clearly wrong. You removed my
name and copyright notices from the documents,
then hijacked them and hosted them on your website.
This is wrong. You know it. So please, do the right
thing and remove them from your site.
I would greatly appreciate you doing this.
thanks you,
clay harrell
As a result I have removed the guides, but I imagine most of you have archived them by now.
I have replied to his email, lets see if he replies to me.
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Hmmm, a brainiac posted a link to your domain on RGP, suspect that resulted in the eamil.
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Hmmm, a brainiac posted a link to your domain on RGP, suspect that resulted in the eamil.
To be honest I am not suprised.
They have been slowly disappearing from the other sites too.
I have sent him a response asking if he is going to sell the guides (in their original HTML format) on CD or DVD.
Geez, I would send him my version (that I have added some more info to) to him to be added to a CD.
Lets see what happens.
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As the author of the pinball repair guides from
http://www.pinrepair.com
PLEASE remove my guides from your website.
What you are doing is clearly wrong. You removed my
name and copyright notices from the documents,
then hijacked them and hosted them on your website.
This is wrong. You know it. So please, do the right
thing and remove them from your site.
I would greatly appreciate you doing this.
thanks you,
clay harrell
"As the author of the pinball repair guides from http://www.pinrepair.com"
And what pinball repair guides would that be? There are no guides there. Anybody remember that little tidbit?
Clay can be such a goofy mofo. It was clearly a ton of work putting all that together. So make the dang thing available for a fee then!!!!!!!!
Simple supply and demand. People want what you've got. You're the only one who has it. Some want it baaad.
Then make a little bread you goof. Why act so similar to that Aussie goofball who also had the rights to stuff people wanted but made nothing available except C&D letters.
Want it to disappear off other sites? Then make it so folks can get it and watch the other sites crumble before your eyes.
He did ask nicely, but still...
OK That's all I have to say about that.
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So make the dang thing available for a fee then!!!!!!!![/i][/b]
+1
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Clay's mentality: "if i can't have it my way, then nobody can have it"
Selfish Pig !
MM.
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This is Clay's latest reply:
Please remove them from your site.
i am working on re-introducing them again,
but every time i get ready to do that, an issue
like this comes up.... like someone hijacks them,
and illegally hosts them. this kills all faith i
have in the pinball community, and i get the "why
do i bother?" mentally.
the thing that is really upsetting with your particular
hosting was the removal of my name/email from
the credits, and the removal of my copyright notice.
i spent nearly 15 years writing these guide. To have
someone, in a matter of minutes, hijack them, and then
re-host them (and remove my name/email from the text),
well i think you can see how upsetting that would be.
thank you for your attention in this matter and
getting them off your website.
clay harrell
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Ummmmmm, thats what happens when u put something on THE WORLD WIDE WEB !
Imagine a few dozen people copying them or displaying them when they have diss-appeared out of site. Nahhhh, that will never happen when u put something on the web ! @.@ @.@
Next, if u produce a CD and sell it, what will you do with the next piece of modern technology called a DVD BURNER. I understand this fellow has been displaying these for a while and he has spent 15 years on it, but this technology was copied when photo copiers were around, then came computer flat bed scanners, then came email. Technology is against you from them being copied, but the same technology (called the world wide web) is how so many people know about them. This is where u cant have ya cake and eat it too ! Protecting Intellectual Property these days is almost impossible. Every industry suffers now because of it.
Clay shld tell the world what he wants to do with them, and try real fast on making a buck if he can. Seems the horse has bolted.
I HAVE AN IDEA THAT MIGHT WORK. SOMEONE EMAIL IT TO HIM ! !@#
If Clay did a book and added heaps of photos, and did a bit of a story with his version of his last 15 years work n experiences in the pinball industry, this is how he could make a buck and stop just the technical stuff being copied. Call it "Pinball Compendium meets great in depth technical data and pinball stories" all wrapped up in one hard cover colour book.
Now, that would sell and u cant really copy a hard covered 100 page book with a electronic coded key (like Microsofts software key) which then gives u membership to his guides. He has to get a bit creative to make his product fit n work the modern day and the challenges that come with it ! *%* *%* *%* *%*
Modern technology makes going to print very easy and only a few grand to get the first batch printed. I have a friend who publish's books with a few of the biggest book companies in the world. it wouldnt be that hard for Clay to do something that would help his cause $ and still get money for the guides. (that will be 10 percent Clay for that great advice) *)* *)* *)*
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Ummmmmm, thats what happens when u put something on THE WORLD WIDE WEB !
Imagine a few dozen people copying them or displaying them when they have diss-appeared out of site. Nahhhh, that will never happen when u put something on the web ! @.@ @.@
Next, if u produce a CD and sell it, what will you do with the next piece of modern technology called a DVD BURNER. I understand this fellow has been displaying these for a while and he has spent 15 years on it, but this technology was copied when photo copiers were around, then came computer flat bed scanners, then came email. Technology is against you from them being copied, but the same technology (called the world wide web) is how so many people know about them. This is where u cant have ya cake and eat it too ! Protecting Intellectual Property these days is almost impossible. Every industry suffers now because of it.
Clay shld tell the world what he wants to do with them, and try real fast on making a buck if he can. Seems the horse has bolted.
I HAVE AN IDEA THAT MIGHT WORK. SOMEONE EMAIL IT TO HIM ! !@#
If Clay did a book and added heaps of photos, and did a bit of a story with his version of his last 15 years work n experiences in the pinball industry, this is how he could make a buck and stop just the technical stuff being copied. Call it "Pinball Compendium meets great in depth technical data and pinball stories" all wrapped up in one hard cover colour book.
Now, that would sell and u cant really copy a hard covered 100 page book with a electronic coded key (like Microsofts software key) which then gives u membership to his guides. He has to get a bit creative to make his product fit n work the modern day and the challenges that come with it ! *%* *%* *%* *%*
Modern technology makes going to print very easy and only a few grand to get the first batch printed. I have a friend who publish's books with a few of the biggest book companies in the world. it wouldnt be that hard for Clay to do something that would help his cause $ and still get money for the guides. (that will be 10 percent Clay for that great advice) *)* *)* *)*
That sound very sensible to me and to probably 99.999% of people, but there seems to be something funny going on with all this that Clay is not letting on.
I obviously haven't met they bloke, but from the few emails he has sent me he seems a bit odd.
Here is the last email he sent me:
thank you very much for removing them.
i really appreciate it. i know you were just trying
to help the community.
again thank you.
clay harrell
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Clay's mentality: "if i can't have it my way, then nobody can have it"
I think there was more to the turn of events than just Clay taking his ball home and pouting, such as others who have contributed to his guides taking their ball home and pouting because it was going to be sold and benefit a pinball museum or something, then things getting a little complicated and then, etc.... . You can see on the pinrepair site that not everything was removed. Just the repair guides, which as I understand it is not necessarily 100% his own input. So it's more than just Clay's ego intruding on our Constitutional right to free pinball repair guides. &&
But even so, I've been tread on and screwed over many times in life and a guy just has to learn to grow a thicker skin and not let your buttons be pushed. You only get so much time to do stuff and getting miffed at "the mob" is no help and just a waste of time.
Anyways....
I'd be in for purchasing a book Clay wrote and access to the guides and probably a few other things just to say thanks for the effort. And I don't even have a working pin anymore. I did buy the TOP dvd set and those too are great. Clay does good work. He just lacks some "political finesse", and I can certainly say the same about myself.
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I'd happily pay for the guides to support the cause. How many newbies are getting into the hobby that are missing out on the information ? Clay set the bar very high with his guides and TOP videos. I guess the man has his reasons, and we need to respect that. But I DO feel for the newbies that may lose interest when help does not seem to be readily available as it once was.
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A change of heart, perhaps ?
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm)
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Some new video content as well! @@* @@*
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Seems he is bringing them back, here's the front page for the EM's http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
Noticed he's updated the copyright tag and date, so lets hope we see the rest back soon.
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Seems he is bringing them back, here's the front page for the EM's http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
Noticed he's updated the copyright tag and date, so lets hope we see the rest back soon.
I think the original removal was due to others claiming part copyright.
He seems to be overly stating that it is all his.
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I think the original removal was due to others claiming part copyright.
He seems to be overly stating that it is all his.
No, the original removal Clay was because looking to sell them for $10 on disk to aid one of the pinball museums. There was a lot of backlash and claims by others to have substantially contributed etc. Messy issue, I am guessing the EM one is back first because I understand he did author virtually all of it himself.
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I think the original removal was due to others claiming part copyright.
He seems to be overly stating that it is all his.
There was a lot of backlash and claims by others to have substantially contributed etc. Messy issue.
That's what I said????
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Nah, they were taken down and a notice posted that you could buy them on disk for $10.00 "donation". That was done without notice, and had nothing to do with anyone's claims of copyright.
All the claims about copyright etc surfaced after they were taken down.
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I don't understand.
I would have thought that who ever had contributed to the guide, had pretty much forfeited their right to the info once it was given to Clay and posted on his site.
I would have been happy to pay a small fee for the info to help a good cause.
I also would have just gone ahead and done it anyway. (sold the cd's)
I'm sure many law suites would have ensued. All hail the litigation nation USA.