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Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Handy hints and tips => Topic started by: rustalan on October 09, 2012, 05:16:47 PM

Title: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: rustalan on October 09, 2012, 05:16:47 PM
I don't know if this has been covered here but,
(http://) Whats different with  with these two pics(http://) Forget the Lightning bolt as these were on Euro exports. The W is upside down on the cheap Indian knock off now flooding the market as being the real thing. Also the bracing inside the flipper is almost non existent causing flippers to destroy themselves.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: rustalan on October 09, 2012, 05:18:42 PM
Sorry 2nd pic didnt come up so... (http://)
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Strangeways on October 09, 2012, 05:50:31 PM

The top flippers with the lightning bolt are slightly smaller in length, and were installed after the designers found the games "too easy" - thus increasing the chances of a ball going SDTM (straight down the middle).

Two games that had these flippers installed from factory are Dr Who and Fishtales. There might be more ?

The second set are standard Bally Williams. They usually have the "W" logo.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Extra Ball on October 09, 2012, 06:58:11 PM
there have been quite a few new lightening bolt flippers breaking. Keep your originals!
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: rustalan on October 09, 2012, 08:12:41 PM
As I said in the first post ignore the lightning bolt. I am using that pic for the W only.  If your W is upside down It is more then likely the cheap knock offs from India. It will have almost no bracing underneath. I have seen a pair of each in real life and the original Williams have full bracing on them and the others that were made in India  after the License was sold off have almost none and the W was embossed upside down.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: pinsanity on October 09, 2012, 08:23:08 PM
As I said in the first post ignore the lightning bolt. I am using that pic for the W only.  If your W is upside down It is more then likely the cheap knock offs from India. It will have almost no bracing underneath. I have seen a pair of each in real life and the original Williams have full bracing on them and the others that were made in India  after the License was sold off have almost none and the W was embossed upside down.

You are absolutely correct regarding the upside down W version. They have been in circulation for a few years and I remember the first "rights holder" from Australia was accepting returns/refunds on them. I would say these are from that production run (so at least a few years old)

There were reports that not only was the bracing not sufficient to hold the bat in place, but also that the plastic used for the bat itself was of a lower grade and was cracking with a strong enough ball impact (even with the rubber "shock absorber").

Now that the license has changed hands I am not sure what your chances are regarding refunds. Perhaps it will be up to the discretion of the individual retailer?
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: rustalan on October 09, 2012, 08:32:39 PM
I actually Know where there is a supply of bats from the last run from the original manufacturer before the license was sold off here in Australia
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: ktm450 on October 09, 2012, 08:37:16 PM
I started a thread a couple of years back with some good photos of the extra bracing in the correct W bats and where the weak points are in the "motorola" M bats

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=6684.0 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=6684.0)
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Retropin on October 09, 2012, 10:02:05 PM
As I said in the first post ignore the lightning bolt. I am using that pic for the W only.  If your W is upside down It is more then likely the cheap knock offs from India. It will have almost no bracing underneath. I have seen a pair of each in real life and the original Williams have full bracing on them and the others that were made in India  after the License was sold off have almost none and the W was embossed upside down.

You are absolutely correct regarding the upside down W. They have been in circulation for a few years and I remember the first "rights holder" from Australia was accepting returns/refunds on them. I would say these are from that production run (so at least a few years old)

There were reports that not only was the bracing not being sufficient to hold the bat in place, but also that the plastic used for the bat itself was of a lower grade and was cracking with a strong enough ball impact (even with the rubber "shock absorber").

Now that the license has changed hands I am not sure what your chances are regarding refunds. Perhaps it will be up to the discretion of the individual retailer?

And thats what happens when rights are in the wrong hands..... couldnt give a toss about quality, they should never have passed inspection and then sold on
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Pintoxicated on October 09, 2012, 10:53:27 PM
Just as a matter of interest (Nino) BSD also had the shorter lightning bolt flippers.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: greenechidna on October 09, 2012, 11:08:25 PM
I actually Know where there is a supply of bats from the last run from the original manufacturer before the license was sold off here in Australia

I could do with a few pairs...p/m me if they are available
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: robm on October 12, 2012, 08:17:26 AM
Another point of interest...i just got a Junkyard (from Europe) and it has white lighting bolt flippers that are the same length as standard
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: pinball god on October 12, 2012, 11:56:43 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I bought some for my funhouse and don't know if they are the ridgey didge or not. Interested to have a look tonight. thanks

Damn I can't see underneath the flippers but the W is definitely upside down and I bought these in oz from ex wms thinking I'd get the real deal. Bugger. And my fh plays so quick I reckon these will break not too far down the track. My t2 flippers broke at the brace points but that was after 20 years of play.

Bugger again I have them on my TZ from same supplier that makes six in total  @.@
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: ktm450 on October 12, 2012, 07:07:22 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I bought some for my funhouse and don't know if they are the ridgey didge or not. Interested to have a look tonight. thanks

Damn I can't see underneath the flippers but the W is definitely upside down and I bought these in oz from ex wms thinking I'd get the real deal. Bugger. And my fh plays so quick I reckon these will break not too far down the track. My t2 flippers broke at the brace points but that was after 20 years of play.

Bugger again I have them on my TZ from same supplier that makes six in total  @.@

Almost all the upside down ones break like this:

(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z397/stewart_clan/Flipper%20bats/100_0619.jpg)





The right way up "W" ones on the right have much thicker webbing:

(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z397/stewart_clan/Flipper%20bats/100_0613.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z397/stewart_clan/Flipper%20bats/100_0602.jpg)
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: pinball god on October 13, 2012, 08:24:27 PM
Thanks mate look forward to breaking a few  ^&( . The big pain about the bracing breaking is that it makes the flipper bend a lot and so becomes somewhat weaker and of course you start looking a eos spacings etc and don't think about looking at the actual flipper bat
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Pinballer on October 13, 2012, 08:53:56 PM

The top flippers with the lightning bolt are slightly smaller in length, and were installed after the designers found the games "too easy" - thus increasing the chances of a ball going SDTM (straight down the middle).

This isn't quite correct. They were introduced at the request of the European distributors, who were getting feedback from operators that wanted less ball time per game. They thought this would lead to greater income per machine. Mark Ritchie explains this in his TOPcast interview.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: greenechidna on October 13, 2012, 10:46:40 PM
i wonder if infilling them with something light like expanded foam or even silastic would add a bit of strength?
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: ktm450 on October 14, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
Thanks mate look forward to breaking a few  ^&( . The big pain about the bracing breaking is that it makes the flipper bend a lot and so becomes somewhat weaker and of course you start looking a eos spacings etc and don't think about looking at the actual flipper bat

Thats how i noticed them in the first place, the bat flexes slightly instead to giving a nice solid flip
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: casperthefriendly on October 18, 2012, 07:45:39 PM
I smashed (literally) my way through two sets of the sh!tty ones on my RFM before I realised there were better ones.

I actually had the "good" ones the whole time I was smashing flipper bats into pieces. The thing that threw me was that the casting of the "W" was actually better and crisper on the sh!tty ones - from the top the "good" ones looked like the copies as the "W" was all blurry. I hadn't thought to compare the underside to notice the extra reinforcement.
Title: Re: Check your Williams Flippers
Post by: Retropin on October 18, 2012, 09:15:30 PM
Ive filled broken flippers with Selleys 'Knead It" before.. works a treat