The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: Wotto on November 07, 2012, 08:48:05 AM
-
Ok - so I have continued to hear the fors and againsts in reference to the LCD in the backglass area of WOZ
Some like the idea, some dont , and there have been numerous slight diversions of current threads in reference to this topic.
Are Stern going to copy this, will it become industry 'norm' down the track, traditionalists want DMD's to remain etc etc.
So why not this................
Have a traditional DMD in the standard spot with a traditional BG/ translite.
Have a small LCD screen in the playfield area of the game ( think where the DMD is located in CV for example ) - and utilise that small LCD screen for moving images, video effects etc throughout the game.
Best of both Worlds AND would cost bugger all extra.
I first thought of this when I saw the RIDICOULOUS ‘stick figure’ band thing in ACDC.
I thought imagine a small screen up there running actual film clips of ACDC......and with themes like Avengers on the horizon and other movie based or music based games the possibilities are endless.
Thoughts?
-
Sounds interesting.
Miniature DMD's have been used before, why not miniature LCD's?
I read a rumor somewhere that Stern were considering having a colour DMD around the size of the Maverick/Batman Forever displays.
Is it's true I think that would look really good.
-
like the idea Wotto but what about stepping it up a little, could be a programming challenge though. Have a lcd thet is on it's side and it is on slide brackets so it sits vertical entering the playfield like on CV but then also acts as the DMD screen in the backbox.
To trasport the machine open up the back box and release a catch and slide the lcd up so it is fully in the backbox then the back box can fold down.
????, not impossible and could be innovative ????? what's that mean ....
-
? Because they will not be making DMDs for much longer?
-
? Because they will not be making DMDs for much longer?
Yeah - I had wondered that as well to be honest........
-
Home pin would have a better idea on cost but I dare say you can buy a bare bones LCD for less than $50 when bought in bukk
-
Bring on the LCD's I say, just so long as there not over done. About the size of the current DMD is all i'd want to see. I just hope they're used to add to the play not make the games stop start style where your constantly waiting on the LCD to do it's thing before you get to smack the ball again.
-
I'm sure they could make a LCD look like a DMD via the programming.
Then they could have the bottom section look like a DMD and the top section
Could show clips or special effects.
cheers Ian
-
The colour dmd's that recently came out for a couple of 90's bally's are actually lcd's
-
The colour dmd's that recently came out for a couple of 90's bally's are actually lcd's
Yes, and they aren't the same shape as a DMD either.
-
The colour dmd's that recently came out for a couple of 90's bally's are actually lcd's
Yes, and they aren't the same shape as a DMD either.
How do you mean? do they rotate it? got any photos during a install
-
Why would you want the LCD to look like a DMD? Theres no point.
LCD will give much sharper graphics and so better animations. Youve all got too used to looking at a DMD thats all, im sure the same argument arose when backglass scoring went to score reels then digital plasma and even then DMD.
LCD- 3D graphics, movie clips, razor sharp images etc... the dots on DMD look shit!
-
I am still satisfied with score reels, or plasma displays. The important stuff is on the playfield.
-
The colour dmd's that recently came out for a couple of 90's bally's are actually lcd's
Yes, and they aren't the same shape as a DMD either.
How do you mean? do they rotate it? got any photos during a install
The Color DMD LCD screen is Square, and a DMD is a rectangle
the scren is a little taller than the speaker panel
-
I would rather 3 or 4 small (phone size ) LCDs located above target banks or ramps
differnt images would come up during different modes
Stern tried it with LEDs blocks on Monopoly, Simpsons and that casino game
-
DMD placement on future Pinballs needs to change and once the theatre of magic I'm working on is finished I'm sure others will agree.
-
I am still satisfied with score reels, or plasma displays. The important stuff is on the playfield.
Score reels #1 for me!
-
The colour dmd's that recently came out for a couple of 90's bally's are actually lcd's
Yes, and they aren't the same shape as a DMD either.
How do you mean? do they rotate it? got any photos during a install
Big square-ish unit that protrudes outside the borders of the speaker panel on both top and bottom.
For this reason it is unlikely we will see a colordmd for CV - I tried to fit the MM one to my CV and the backbox can't be raised or lowered properly and the playfield can't be slid back fully into place.
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/pinball1974/MM%20illuminated%20apron/100_1271.jpg)
-
I'm all for the new LCD or led screens, gotta change with the times.
I don't think cost wise DMD and LCD would be an option.
-
I predict dmd for Pro model games.
LCD for LE games.
DMD should stay because DMD has constant movement and does its job very well. Just look how little the WOZ one moves/does little during most gameplay to then realise how much DMD action u are missing from a normal game.
Keep DMD in every game, and replace half of the translite area with a LCD for LE buyers who want to fork out the extra.
Just because LCD is in a WOZ, does NOT mean LCD will now become the norm. Just look at Pin2000, it didnt become the norm in any pinball after it was invented, and u have plenty of room in a backbox for a LCD screen today, but if a LCD doesnt do much during gameplay, it wont be wanted as much as people think. Also, because a DMD is set very low, u can see most of it during half of the normal gameplay, but you cannot look up much higher and watch a large LCD during ball/fast gameplay, cause u cant watch the playfield n monitor at the same time cause it is too high.
LCD will not totally replace the DMD in my mind at all.
-
LCD in my RFM, and it has to be the best marriage of video and playfield action to date.
-
LCD in my RFM, and it has to be the best marriage of video and playfield action to date.
totally agree, RFM visuals are excellent..it works here cause the picture sits low in the cabinet so to speak with the way it reflects on the playfield glass etc...pin2000 worked extremely well for the technology they had to work with at the time..
std pinball needs to copy this to make large LCDs work better cause they sit too high otherwise....
-
LCD in my RFM, and it has to be the best marriage of video and playfield action to date.
totally agree, RFM visuals are excellent..it works here cause the picture sits low in the cabinet so to speak with the way it reflects on the playfield glass etc...pin2000 worked extremely well for the technology they had to work with at the time..
std pinball needs to copy this to make large LCDs work better cause they sit too high otherwise....
Pin2000 didnt work well at all.. you cant see what you are meant to be shooting at. Nice idea.. crap execution.
What LCD does during gameplay is entirely up to the designers.. it can do anything they want it to do. DMD definition is bloody awful, even LED moving screens are becoming more like LCD with pixel definition at 5mm..4mm and even 3mm.. all designed for close up viewing with better definition. LCD is CHEAP! Its in every phone and gives great graphics. DMD is dead cavey. Stern may not embrace it straight away, but then we come to expect that of Stern... hell it took a while for flippers at the bottom of the PF to become the norm.
Give it up Cavey, Gary doesnt love you as much
-
I don't care how clear or crisp the LCD on WOZ is, the size of the screen is absurd.
-
LCD in my RFM, and it has to be the best marriage of video and playfield action to date.
totally agree, RFM visuals are excellent..it works here cause the picture sits low in the cabinet so to speak with the way it reflects on the playfield glass etc...pin2000 worked extremely well for the technology they had to work with at the time..
std pinball needs to copy this to make large LCDs work better cause they sit too high otherwise....
Pin2000 didnt work well at all.. you cant see what you are meant to be shooting at. Nice idea.. crap execution.
What LCD does during gameplay is entirely up to the designers.. it can do anything they want it to do. DMD definition is bloody awful, even LED moving screens are becoming more like LCD with pixel definition at 5mm..4mm and even 3mm.. all designed for close up viewing with better definition. LCD is CHEAP! Its in every phone and gives great graphics. DMD is dead cavey. Stern may not embrace it straight away, but then we come to expect that of Stern... hell it took a while for flippers at the bottom of the PF to become the norm.
Give it up Cavey, Gary doesnt love you as much
Gary doesnt have to love me, just my money when I keep buying the occassional new Pro.lol
Whats wrong with the latest LED red dot matrix displays with excellent graphics n contents etc... sometimes, if it aint broke, leave it...
The current makeup of pinball (say AC/DC and X Men works really well) so sometimes leaving things alone works...I am happy with the current technology cause it does its job really well.
-
Disagree Gav, I have no trouble seeing the targets on my RFM. But what an LCD in pin2k does, is push the reflected image towards the background a little more, did you play mine at pinfest? Think it made an improvement?
-
Pin2000 didnt work well at all.. you cant see what you are meant to be shooting at. Nice idea.. crap execution.
What LCD does during gameplay is entirely up to the designers.. it can do anything they want it to do. DMD definition is bloody awful, even LED moving screens are becoming more like LCD with pixel definition at 5mm..4mm and even 3mm.. all designed for close up viewing with better definition. LCD is CHEAP! Its in every phone and gives great graphics. DMD is dead cavey. Stern may not embrace it straight away, but then we come to expect that of Stern... hell it took a while for flippers at the bottom of the PF to become the norm.
Give it up Cavey, Gary doesnt love you as much
Exactly, retropin.
Nicastro wanted a game changer but he gave the designers limited resources to come up with something that couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a pinball or an arcade game. It ultimately failed on both levels.
Sales were only stronger on these titles than previous traditional titles for 2 reasons:
RFM - Nicastro convinced Nova Games in Germany that it was a winner and a "direct sequel along the lines of AFM" (pftfft &^&) so they committed themselves to purchasing a significant number of machines (as much as 50% of them from what I have read) which ultimately boosted the production run way over the average. Unsurprisingly they (Nova Games) rebadged their company and refocused most of their business interests into slot machines shortly afterwards.
This is also why every container load from Europe has at least one RFM in it - you can buy a fully working excellent condition RFM for 500Euro (650AU) in Germany. Not bad when importers are selling them for over $2k here in Aus on the basis of it being "unique".
Star Wars sold......because it is Star Wars, just like ACDC is ACDC. In cases like those, gameplay and design unfortunately takes a backseat to the title itself.
This is what happens when you adopt the Stern philosophy of cost cutting and deceptive marketing, "whatever it takes to get units out the door and even if it turns out to be mediocre at best, the next title will blow everyone away, cross my fingers". &&
-
Disagree Gav, I have no trouble seeing the targets on my RFM. But what an LCD in pin2k does, is push the reflected image towards the background a little more, did you play mine at pinfest? Think it made an improvement?
I didnt im afraid.. there was some kid on it who never left it!
-
Yep, that machine really attracts the kids, my young son got upset when I told him that I may sell it. The LCD mod makes a big difference, shame you didnt get a chance to try it out.