The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Chat - Non Pinball/coin-opp Discussion => Topic started by: Strangeways on December 18, 2008, 10:26:11 PM
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I've been in IT now for 18 years, and to be honest, I'm feeling the effects of being "burnt out". Combined with the lack of incentive to update my certifications has led me to the question -
Has anyone moved from one Career to another - in another Business sector or industry with success ?
Younger people getting into IT now, have not idea what they are in for.. Things have changed for heaps of reason - Corporate Greed, Mismanagement, under funding etc.. etc... I'm tired of "big business" and wearing a suit to work...
I would not mind a change, but I'm "stuck" in my ways, and somewhat stubborn @@^
Thoughts ?
Advise ?
!@#
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I've only been in IT for 8 years and I feel "burnt out", god knows how I will feel with another 10 years under my belt! I would love a career change, but don't have any qualifications in anything else and don't really want to start at the bottom of the ladder again. Earning the money I earn now would be hard to give up too. But that's enough about me, sorry for the highjack! !^!
Matthew
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I've only been in IT for 8 years and I feel "burnt out", god knows how I will feel with another 10 years under my belt! I would love a career change, but don't have any qualifications in anything else and don't really want to start at the bottom of the ladder again. Earning the money I earn now would be hard to give up too. But that's enough about me, sorry for the highjack! !^!
Matthew
Thats fine Matt - That's what I want to hear - other people's thoughts..
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Strangeways, you sound like my long lost twin brother. I hear you buddy. 21 years in IT and burnt out like you would not believe. Being managed by incompetents and being treated like a child - still. IT has been turned upside down since every man and his dog thinks they can develop/test/implement corporate wide applications on their PC using .NET or similar. I would love to slap these cowboys around the head a bit. A lot actually...
I would love to get out but where to? I would love to drive a truck or something like that!
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I spent 24 years with a lift company in various roles. Started there when I was 17 left when I was 41.. Scarey really.
Anyway made a change an now work as a Consultant in the industry to Buiding Owners/Managers etc
No regrets, I needed a new challange, and its been good. Still the same industry.
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I go to work everyday wondering what rubbish will get pushed my way today. That's not a good sign.
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I moved from finance to law 15 years ago, after 10 years in finance. Probably would have said successfully except tomorrow marks the end of the legal phase, at least in its current guise. I have set up a sole practice to work from home for a couple of select clients, but after having been responsible for about 40,000 conveyancing and other property transactions I might say I was (am) somewhat burnt out too.
The new work I will start (the client work will be a sideline really) is with a group of people who have put together an IT package for my industry! Unlike you Stubbornways and Crutch, I won't be actually working in IT though, but its sort of ironic in some ways.
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Strangeways, you sound like my long lost twin brother. I hear you buddy. 21 years in IT and burnt out like you would not believe. Being managed by incompetents and being treated like a child - still. IT has been turned upside down since every man and his dog thinks they can develop/test/implement corporate wide applications on their PC using .NET or similar. I would love to slap these cowboys around the head a bit. A lot actually...
I would love to get out but where to? I would love to drive a truck or something like that!
Armstrong's is about 5 Minutes from my place and they instruct Vans, Buses and 18 wheelers.. The thought has crossed my mind, as I enjoy being on the road..
I guess I don't "fit in" with older IT principles.. In the "old days" we used to Plan, test, pilot, implement and support.. These days, the emphasis is on implement once, implement twice, curse the lack of planning, ask "whats scope", forget the objective... then I have to fix it.. Bosses get together, pat themselves on the back.. and I'm back to square one..
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I moved from finance to law 15 years ago, after 10 years in finance. Probably would have said successfully except tomorrow marks the end of the legal phase, at least in its current guise. I have set up a sole practice to work from home for a couple of select clients, but after having been responsible for about 40,000 conveyancing and other property transactions I might say I was (am) somewhat burnt out too.
The new work I will start (the client work will be a sideline really) is with a group of people who have put together an IT package for my industry! Unlike you Stubbornways and Crutch, I won't be actually working in IT though, but its sort of ironic in some ways.
Now then, be nice, nobrains4me... Don't let the IT bug bite you on the ass !!
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Now then, be nice, nobrains4me...
C'mon Nino, don't be so hard on yourself. You clearly have some brains given those wonderful restores you do! :)
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Don't let the IT bug bite you on the ass !!
Oh, and while I am flattered, I'll decline, but thanks for the offer! &&
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Nino,
Happy to train you as an accountant, only conditions would be that you would have to move to Adelaide and also restore my pinballs - seem fair?
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I guess I don't "fit in" with older IT principles.. In the "old days" we used to Plan, test, pilot, implement and support.. These days, the emphasis is on implement once, implement twice, curse the lack of planning, ask "whats scope", forget the objective... then I have to fix it.. Bosses get together, pat themselves on the back.. and I'm back to square one..
Couldn't have summed it up better...
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!!!
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Actually I'm pretty sure that's what it is - mid life crisis. Half my life over and apart from raising 2 wonderful kids, wtf have I done with my life????
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I thought that was WHY people starting collecting pinballs...
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I thought that was WHY people starting collecting pinballs...
Just don't make it a full time job repairing them like I did <.>
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Nino,
Happy to train you as an accountant, only condiions would be that you would have to move to Adelaide and also restore my pinballs - seem fair?
nice offer, Tony...
I think I've read enough books, and burnt many a midnight oil...
Pinballs are strictly a Hobby.. I don't know what my NEW hobby would be if I turned it into a full time job !
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I don't know what my NEW hobby would be if I turned it into a full time job !
Probably IT ! &&
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I don't know what my NEW hobby would be if I turned it into a full time job !
Probably IT ! &&
There's a meltdown waiting to happen !
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We spend most of our lives working,why not do something you enjoy? Its not all about money, its waking up in the morning with at least half a smile on your face and enjoying your work and the people around you. If you are asking the question...............its time to move on.
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I made a full career change from I.T about 8 years ago. Still enjoy my work, but at the end of the day all it does is pay the bills to enable me to enjoy time at home with the family...
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Some really constructive comments here guys... Well today is my last day (Christmas Break), and I have around three weeks to have a really good think about it..
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And that's exactly what I will be doing...
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I made a full career change from I.T about 8 years ago. Still enjoy my work, but at the end of the day all it does is pay the bills to enable me to enjoy time at home with the family...
Marty - What did you choose as your new career ?
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I'm still working with computers, just not supporting users / networks anymore *%* but in a completely different industry / focus.
In the past, especially in I.T people tend to change jobs every 2-3 yrs, which is a good & bad thing I guess. I jumped around from place to place over this time and I guess what I've learnt in my 17 years in working life is making it work for you. At the end of the day, unless your running a business yourself, you're just another bare arse in the shower. Places can survive without you and you can always be replaced.
I think at the end of the day, in the current economic climate I would not be changing jobs unless you were going somewhere that cannot cut staff back or isn't going to close! If you can do your 8hrs, have time to pop on here during the day and come home to a comfortable house, family and have your toys in the garage then life is good.
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I have been a stay at home dad for 11 years now I guess, and I am burnt out. Bored to hell, and sick of cooking, cleaning, washing, driving kids around etc. I need new job or at least a project pin huh!
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Hi , my name is Mark, and I too am burnt out!
Been in electrical industry , dealing with customers full time since I was 15 - I am now 42.
Same company for the last 18 years.
I am SO BLOODY sick to death of EVERYONE wanting EVERYTHING NOW !!! - No-one can wait a bloody week anymore for ANYTHING, and then I am surrounded by pansy -arse salesmen that are too gutless / un-knowledgable to be able to advise a customer they need to wait and explain it in a way so we retain them as a client for the future ( there IS a way of doing that ) , but they lie to people and then its my job to sort the salespeoples crap out.
Sometimes these days I just tell people the salesman has bullshitted them and then I sort the customer out in an honest way and they love me for it - I do this in front of the salesperson and they hate it of course.
So these days I go to work - do my job with my Ipod in my ear all day ( I am not in frontline sales - a lot of phone work backing up salesguys and ordering gear ) , go to the beach for a swim at lunch and try not to deal with these jerks that I am surrounded by.
Sounds good huh !! &^&
Dont worry Creech - U were the best customer I ever had :lol
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Sometimes these days I just tell people the salesman has bullshitted them and then I sort the customer out in an honest way and they love me for it.
I bet they do. It's amazing how honesty seems to work so well... Good on you for taking the straight path, very refreshing. :)
Had any five minute balls with no targets hit lately? :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Sometimes these days I just tell people the salesman has bullshitted them and then I sort the customer out in an honest way and they love me for it.
I bet they do. It's amazing how honesty seems to work so well... Good on you for taking the straight path, very refreshing. :)
Had any five minute balls with no targets hit lately? :lol :lol :lol :lol
Now that was uncalled for :lol
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Sometimes these days I just tell people the salesman has bullshitted them and then I sort the customer out in an honest way and they love me for it.
I bet they do. It's amazing how honesty seems to work so well... Good on you for taking the straight path, very refreshing. :)
Had any five minute balls with no targets hit lately? :lol :lol :lol :lol
That's almost a bloody warning ^&^
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Sometimes these days I just tell people the salesman has bullshitted them and then I sort the customer out in an honest way and they love me for it.
I bet they do. It's amazing how honesty seems to work so well... Good on you for taking the straight path, very refreshing. :)
Had any five minute balls with no targets hit lately? :lol :lol :lol :lol
That's almost a bloody warning ^&^
!@#
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well well Nino ....
it happens to us all .
I live by once its not fun I move on.
you dont live to work you work to live ...
you work for your family to see the smiles on the things you
i live to see my little girls faces when i walk in , to talk to my older daughter.
this industry has gotten to me a few times but at this stage not enough to move on. yes I have thought about it and come close
I then sit back and think of the good people involved and the nice ones .
there are some real ratbags in pinball but you must forget these
mate think of your family and think of what you can do for them and DONT miss the kids growing up. I can see that little smile on Zacs face when you get home, if anything like when I bring a pin over , you are so lucky to have that . thats just one of the best things we as dads get.
do what you makes you happy , do what gives you time with your kids your wife .
ifs its not fun , sit down talk to your wife and take time to think what your next move . talk to your dad too .
even take a week away take a month off
fix some your 37 pins you have ......
now go back and play pinball ITS FUN
I know I wont be in pinball for ever and will enjoy what time I have left and love seeing peoples faces when I drop them off
seeing the kids play and the smile thats just gold for me. but I know in a couple of years we will just have the parts site and a few pins.
you wont get rid of me just yet as we still have a few hundred in stock and working on more but time changes everything.
I will contnue to chase more parts and build the site to service my customers for YEARS to come.
mark
now no more serious posts I need a drink () ( smoke is close enough havent had one for them for over 10 years well 10 years 3 months and 5 days )
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Dont worry Creech - U were the best customer I ever had :lol
Sounds like you're the only one who can get things happening over there. I will never forget the sheer joy I felt when you told me you could get me my TV almost instantly while all the salespeople in Adelaide were telling me BS about how there were none in the country.
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well well Nino ....
it happens to us all .
I live by once its not fun I move on.
you dont live to work you work to live ...
you work for your family to see the smiles on the things you
i live to see my little girls faces when i work in , to talk to my older daughter.
this industry has gotten to me a few times but at this stage not enough to move on. yes I have thought it and come close
I then sit back and think of the good people involved and the nice ones .
there are some real ratbags in pinball but you must forget these
mate think of your family and think of what you can do for them and DONT miss the kids growing up. I can see that little smile on Zacs face when you get home, if anything like when I bring a pin over , you are so lucky to have that . thats just one of the best things we as dads get.
do what you makes you happy , do what gives you time with your kids your wife .
ifs its not fun , sit down talk to your wife and take time to think what your next move . talk to your dad too .
even take a week away take a month off
fix some your 37 pins you have ......
now go back and play pinball ITS FUN
I know I wont be in pinball for ever and will enjoy what time I have left and love seeing peoples faces when I drop them off
seeing the kids play and the smile thats just gold for me. but I know in a couple of years we will just have the parts site and a few pins.
you wont get rid of me just yet as we still have a few hundred in stock and working on more but time changes everything.
I will contnue to chase more parts and build the site to service my customers for YEARS to come.
mark
now no more serious posts I need a drink () ( smoke is close enough havent had one for them for over 10 years well 10 years 3 months and 5 days )
That's a really insightful post - Thanks for that Mark...
I WILL be looking at moving on either at the end of this year, or within 2 years. The only other thing I know outside of IT is Pinball. So I will definitely look at something in that area.. I did speak to Dad about it - He said "NOOOOOO" - But he has a wealth of knowledge and a couple of buildings I can use. Ironically, one of the buildings was "purpose built" back in the old days.. So I may go "full circle"..
No offense intended to the full time or part time guys in the industry, but I don't see working on pinballs as "work". I find it challenging and relaxing. It will allow me to spend more time with the family.
I guess the hardest part is the first step..and I won't be taking that "first step" until the family have been consulted.. So far, so good...
Thanks to all for the great replies #*#
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I'm another contemplating a career change. I am getting stressed lately. I just don't know what I would do as I've been in the same industry for the last 15 years. Other problem I have is that I am responsable for around 100 staff and I would be concerned as to their futures if I wasn't around. Very hard as I'm just not enjoying coming to work any more. Sure the money is good but it's not everything, right? I have been worrying over this for months now and it just keeps getting me more and more down. Maybe a easy job walking the isles in a bunnings or something is called for just to give me a break or maybe I should open up a coffee shop or something.......f**k knows..... I've got a headache.
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Exactly how I feel mate.
I'm contemplating buying a courier franchise as I love being on the road. Something a bit different from IT.
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Reading through the replies again - I noticed a common thread. We all turn to "pinball" to relieve stress and take us to that "special place"..
I could be worse - imagine if we didn't have pinball as our form of relaxation and stress relief ? I guess we would find something else - but nothing beats Pinball except Family and Friends
$#$
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nino,i would just sit it out and wait for a redundancy package.you can hurry it up by taking all your sick leave
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I am now working from home, with a select group of clients who actually appreciate the work I do. Sure, I won't see the sort of dollars I did as a principal of a good sized firm, but I get to:
Walk away from the PC when I feel like it;
Do some gardening if it takes my fancy;
Play with the girls (and the pool has been great fun the last few days);
Log onto AP anytime I feel like it without answering to f*ucking admin employees of mine asking why I'm not working;
Not have my email vetted by people I paid to work for me;
Play a game of pinball just because the games are three feet away;
Sit and chat with my beautiful wife whenever either of us feels the urge;
Have as many coffee breaks as my caffeine levels will allow!
Balanced against the former dollars, all I can see is I'm miles ahead! (Might feel different if the cash flow slows too much! :)
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nino,i would just sit it out and wait for a redundancy package.you can hurry it up by taking all your sick leave
Damien - I'm in a specialist role.. My position won't become redundant. Would be nice to have a redundancy package to start a new venture !
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I am now working from home, with a select group of clients who actually appreciate the work I do. Sure, I won't see the sort of dollars I did as a principal of a good sized firm, but I get to:
Walk away from the PC when I feel like it;
Do some gardening if it takes my fancy;
Play with the girls (and the pool has been great fun the last few days);
Log onto AP anytime I feel like it without answering to f*ucking admin employees of mine asking why I'm not working;
Not have my email vetted by people I paid to work for me;
Play a game of pinball just because the games are three feet away;
Sit and chat with my beautiful wife whenever either of us feels the urge;
Have as many coffee breaks as my caffeine levels will allow!
Balanced against the former dollars, all I can see is I'm miles ahead! (Might feel different if the cash flow slows too much! :)
That's awesome !
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Sounds great Nick. The kind of things I'm looking for too!
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I've done the career change 3 times now. Did IT when it paid until the great recession and anyone with a PC thought they could be consultants. Then moved side ways when the opportunity arose and did robotics & cnc machinery (training, troubleshooting, programming) Ended up owning my own company in this business. License to print money, 3 hour days mainly but was like fire fighting, when the shit hits the fan, you move into action with major stress and time constraints.
Now due to family reasons I'm in the family business of colorbond fencing (supply and project management of the largest estates). No more stress, longer hours and have to deal with STAFF!!! Ah management, love it so much I'm thinking of taking a sicky on my first day back LOL
What I'm trying to say is work is work otherwise they'd call it pinball or golf or play of some sort. I don't believe (unless you're really lucky) there is a job that won't get you down or burn you out. You just have to ride those waves and make the most of the "play times" after the job is done. Just don't take your work problems home otherwise your home life will be like work all over again.
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grass is always greener boys. you get the same crap no matter what you do or how high up you sit . i bailed on IT/Finance 6 years ago to get into corporate greed - at least the stay is shorter and more lucrative. mark is bang on with "work to live", I spend more time with the kids now than when i was on the treadmill. actually feel like i have work/life balance for the first time, few bucks to boot, assuming the recession doesn't wipe us out lol . i'm not sure this is a good year to move around much though...starting to get ugly out there..
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Some of the things making me want to change:
- No job description. Been in this role 2.5 years and I still don't know what my job is. Seems to be a fire fighter more than anything.
- Treated like a child, not an adult.
- Management have nothing new to teach me. Same old, same old.
- Micro managed to the nth degree.
- 1 performance review in 2.5 years. The last one I had I was told to read and sign.
- IT is now full of incompetent f**kwits who think they know the world fresh out of Uni. IT aint what it used to be.
- Lack of respect for people with experience. I have 25 year olds who think their shit doesn't stink and dive in with 6 shooters blazing. Instead of being taught the right way they are praised for cutting corners.
A few of my favourite things... %.%
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This is very belated, but I'll throw my $.02 into the mix.
I've been going through a similar phase for quite a while now so I'll offer a few thoughts, many of which are half-baked and others which I've pondered at length.
I am a bit of a job hopper. Used to be that my usual length at a company was about 2 years. Usually I left because a better opportunity came up, but I was also fed up at the same time. The problem was, without fail, typical corporate "structure" issues:
____________________________________________________
The commandments:
1. All ideas must come down from disconnected strangers from "above" because the low people who have to work intimately with their tasks every day, all day, couldn't possibly know better.
2. A group cooperating together and working toward a goal is much less effective than the One Manager taking complete control over every task, break, time clock punch, conversation and decision.
B. To improve the One Manager's effectiveness, stop all "productive" work and have meetings at least once per week.
5. To improve the One Manager's effectiveness, throw paperwork at the problem. To introduce the new paperwork, create a PowerPoint presentation and use every transition effect available to impress the lowly employees, then see #3 above.
4. Employees must be referred to as "associates" even though the origin of nor reason for this practice is known. All the other managers from last summer's seminar did this, so you must do this too.
7. Of utmost importance is to create a working atmosphere throughout the company that your thumb is firmly held down on each and every employee...er..."associate".
8. Reprimand often and create a paper trail for each one. This makes it easy to fire anyone at any time and harder for "terminated" employees to receive unemployment compensation. Change policy often and/or add new policies weekly. Before long it will be impossible for anyone to follow them all. Reprimands for everyones' file!
If you follow the above instructions, you will have totally switched the focus of the company from delivering quality product to a well-oiled mass of corporate soldiers. The creative and talented individuals who would be able and willing to challenge the logic of your strategy will leave on their own early-on in the process. Congratulations!
_____________________________________________
Sound familiar?
I realized long ago that the answer for me would have to be either self-employment or finding a small company to call "home". I haven't worked out the discipline to be self-employed, but I recently found a good company that could hardly be smaller - 3 of us, one of whom is the owner. The reason my salvation had to be in a small company is that, for a really small company to succeed, the decisions have to make sense. Do that corporate "policy" junk and it will go under in a hurry. Large companies can go under too, but they have so much corporate money and credit that they can feed off that tit for a very long time before they finally call it quits. The other thing I like about my current job is that, when he started the place, he decided to focus on high-quality, interesting, precision machining. We don't do drudgerous multi-thousand-piece runs. We'll occasionally do 100 pieces but normally it's between 5 and 20. This means the actual work is changing often and keeps it interesting. Since high-quality is the highest priority, we are never pressured to work faster (other than self-imposed internal pressure I guess). We have all been in this field for quite a while though so we work very efficiently just from experience. No worries.
OK, I'm basically ranting so far, but this is what I've found to work for me:
They say working in a field that you are passionate about is the key to happiness, but that's not true at all unless you consider where you decide to place that passion. You have to look under a lot of rocks, but if you look enough you can find a place worthy of your talents.
You work your best hours of most days at your job. If you hate your job, then the money looks much less appealing. I could make more money in several large companies around here, but the daily atmosphere where I work now is very positive (unlike anywhere I've been in over 20 years) and that's worth quite a bit of money to me.
Luckily I've spent a lot of time creating a relatively frugal lifestyle and that helps a lot. If I had to, I could almost collect aluminum cans by the highway and take them to the recycler to make the house payment. When I work on my house, it's almost always the result of deciding to put to use some pile of lumber or rocks or whatever that someone else decided to throw away. One example: My yard is fairly large and that means I need a riding lawnmower, and even that is a scavenged system. Over the years I've dragged home five of the same model mower because people were throwing them out. Mowers are always breaking down and I have two working and three for parts. This life is a little more hassle than the typical "throw money at the problem" style that most everybody I know have, but I think it keeps me a little more engaged too though.
Anyways, for me dealing with life has become a two-pronged approach. 1) create a frugal lifestyle so it's not so difficult to live within my means and 2) Find a job which, though maybe I don't "look forward" to going to every morning (i.e. if I won the lottery I'd retire in a second), once I get there it is a pretty good experience with people that I respect and usually enjoy being around, and they respect my abilities & opinions too.
So that's the "job" part of life anyway. The multitude of other facets in life are still a challenge of course, but those don't seem to take such a big chunk out of my soul.
Sorry for the long post.
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Great read there Vinito.
Your management analysis certainly does reflect the corporate model, although it's harsh (obviously for the humor) but much of it is based on reality. Management generally works at only one thing - justifying management's existence, more worried about their job than the success of the company. I was trained differently by a management Zen Master! :) He taught me it was all about creating an environment where the staff are empowered (within safe limits) to achieve, and the goal is make yourself redundant! The only truly successful manager is one where the department/business has developed its people to such a level that the manager is no longer needed. It's a great theory, and in practice some level of balance needs to be applied, but I have followed the model with some great success - but it also can make the manager a casualty if his manager is of the normal style as you describe. It can only work if every single person in management from the very top down adheres to it. One of the businesses I took over ten years ago (and left behind with my recent departure from the main firm) literally took around one to two hours a week to manage - and it made a very healthy profit, run by three lovely ladies (all of who I recruited over the years), who loved their jobs. Sadly, the supervisor rang me a week or so ago to ask for a written reference (I'd hire her in a millisecond if I was recreating a new business), then I had a call yesterday for a reference for one of the others, I guess things aren't as much fun a month later. Sad though, but not surprising given what I saw personally due to the managing partner. He replaced (heck, I voted for it!) the previous managing partner. The previous one understood my style. Turns out my vote might have been a mistake in hindsight! &^&
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Yea, I did "Dilbert-ify" the commandments. I have seen it printed several times now that if your job rings true with the Dilbert comic strip very often, then it's probably time to find a new place of employment.
I agree with you in many ways. I was a manager of a machining and welding crew a few years ago. My background was just in machining & welding, but also in teaching. No managing history however. So when they put me in charge I just decided to approach it as being the teacher. Most of the crew was pretty green, so it was easy to find many things I could teach most of them. My job was just to show them how to do their job. When there was a machine "crash", they were always afraid trouble would be coming down on them, but I just showed them how to fix whatever broke and get back up & running again. After about 9 months, my job was extremely easy because everybody knew their jobs and had a lot of confidence to handle whatever came up. It's a no-brainer.
But if your goal is to simply justify your existence, then your job requires so much more work that never ends. I guess that would have to come from a place where a manager's existence is on shaky ground to begin with due to lack of ability, plus the likely fact that his manager can't see what's wrong so it perpetuates. Dilbert.
I'm just glad I'm out of that garbage for now. I'm kind of a free-spirit hipster at heart, so typical corporate hierarchy crap is very hard for me to accept. It eats me alive and I just have to leave.
I shooda learned to play the guitar!
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I shooda learned to play the guitar!
Lol! I did! Still play from time to time, used to play semi-pro every weekend until about six years ago, but lost interest (got old???). Just got offered a fortnightly gig so back to practicing a bit. Not gonna pack it in and hit the road though, my kids would (hopefully) miss me (Mrs Pinnies4me probably not...)
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I think I saw you play one night before I got arrested. Here's the police sketch:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff201/rgpimage/nerdtoon.jpg)
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:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol