The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: Crashramp on April 27, 2013, 10:08:01 PM
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Hi guys,
I've just brought home a Bally Xenon with a couple of small issues. The first one is that when you press start it loads both balls into the shooter lane and the second is that side saucer which holds captive balls in the exit chamber won't kick balls out once the game is in play. If you turn the machine on and drop a ball in, it's kicked out straight away but as soon as you start a game and shoot into the tube it won't come out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Sounds like switch problems to me, check switch adjustment under the apron were the second ball is stored before being ejected in to shooter lane.
I think all eject holes on the playfield are cleared when a game is first turned on, check switch adjustment.
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Sounds like switch problems to me, check switch adjustment under the apron were the second ball is stored before being ejected in to shooter lane.
I think all eject holes on the playfield are cleared when a game is first turned on, check switch adjustment.
Thanks, Ill take another look at the switches for both but I'm not sure that's the answer for eject hole. You are right it does cycle through and eject all balls on start up but I can drop ball after ball into it before starting a game and they all automatically eject, so I the switch must be reading that the balls there. If I manually light "capture when lit" with the glass off (which is when the ball is suppose to be held in this hole) and then hit the top eject hole, the ball is ejected from the side eject hole just like its suppose to.
I hope that all makes sense. In a nut shell though the side eject is working as it should except for when that first ball goes in before its lit.
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Run the switch test. Maybe the trough switch is the issue?? The game thinks the trough has all the balls in it ??
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Run the switch test. Maybe the trough switch is the issue?? The game thinks the trough has all the balls in it ??
I had a quick look at the machine yesterday, the machine isnt continually trying to kick balls out of the trough when the balls arent in there so I am not sure there are issues with the trough switches. ???
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This game has quite a few relatively recent hacks on the boards before the person I brought it off had it and it had been kept away unplayed waiting for a restoration before I brought it so is it likely that these issues are board related? It all seems odd to me, everything is working but not as it should.
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I've taken the picture below in the hopes that someone can tell me what the correct operation of these switches whIch load the ball onto the shooter lane is suppose to be.
When the ball drains its immediately kicked up the the second switch which then immediately loads the ball into the shooter lane. I expect that this operation is correct except for the ball being loaded into the shooter lane while there's already a ball in play. Can anyone tell me what tells the machine that a ball is already in play?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/he4u5uvy.jpg)
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Below is a picture of the top Out hole kicker switch( the one that's working correctly) note the locations of wire to the lugs.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/u9y7usav.jpg)
This next one is the side Out hole kicker. There wired/soldered to different lugs. Is this the problem or is it just that they have different functions?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/magejyje.jpg)
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Looks like that diode is broken, it may have died and someone has bypassed the diode as a quick fix. I would replace the diode (i can drop some off today if you don't have any on hand) and put the wire back on the other lug as a start.
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I've taken the picture below in the hopes that someone can tell me what the correct operation of these switches whIch load the ball onto the shooter lane is suppose to be.
When the ball drains its immediately kicked up the the second switch which then immediately loads the ball into the shooter lane. I expect that this operation is correct except for the ball being loaded into the shooter lane while there's already a ball in play. Can anyone tell me what tells the machine that a ball is already in play?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/he4u5uvy.jpg)
The trough switch nearest the shooter lane accompanied a closed switch i.e side out hole or switches being constantly closed on the playfield i.e. An active ball should be telling the machine where the balls are.
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Yes I'm pretty sure that this switch is the culprit. In the manual it's listed as the "ball release #2" switch. I've checked the wires and reflowed them but still no good. Either the switch is stuffed or the extra lug without the wire is missing a wire. If its missing a wire, I don't know where it is so hopefully a replacement switch will do the job.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/5yhuja5a.jpg)
Not a great photo of the switch in the earlier photo but the diode is still soldered and hasn't snapped. Is that what you meant?
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nah sorry, i was referring to the switch at the side outsole kicker.
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nah sorry, i was referring to the switch at the side outsole kicker.
Yes that's the one I was talking about to. I just made it a bit confusing by posting a picture of a different switch. Anyway, I've resoldered the wires to match the other out hole kicker and nothing's changed. It still works in the same manor. I don't have any diodes so I haven't tried that yet.
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Below is a picture of the top Out hole kicker switch( the one that's working correctly) note the locations of wire to the lugs.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/u9y7usav.jpg)
This next one is the side Out hole kicker. There wired/soldered to different lugs. Is this the problem or is it just that they have different functions?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/magejyje.jpg)
That diode in the second pic looks back to front, The banded side should go to the Lug with no wire attached i think . if you see what i mean . Try swapping diode around . Also the diode looks broken but is that just the lighting of photo? All other diode bands in your pics go to the unwired lug so hope this helps
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It's just the light in the photo. I'm not sure about which way the diode should go either. Both the top and bottom pics have the diode the same way only in the bottom picture one set of wires is connected to a different lug. I've now resolderred the wires onto the other lug so they both look the same. Unfortunately it hasn't made any difference.
I will get a new diode to try here anyway but I'm sure that's the problem either as the kicker works consistantly, just not in the way I think it should. Having said that does anybody else have this game and should the first ball into this kicker be held or kicked straight out? I'm only going of utube videos as a reference.
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I would leave the wires as they were originally as this looks the correct way, But i reckon some one has put the diode on incorrectly . And if one is wrong i would check all the others just in case. And check or renew/ resolder the header pins on the cpu as this causes switch problems
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Below is a picture of the top Out hole kicker switch( the one that's working correctly) note the locations of wire to the lugs.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/u9y7usav.jpg)
This next one is the side Out hole kicker. There wired/soldered to different lugs. Is this the problem or is it just that they have different functions?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/28/magejyje.jpg)
That diode in the second pic looks back to front, The banded side should go to the Lug with no wire attached i think . if you see what i mean . Try swapping diode around . Also the diode looks broken but is that just the lighting of photo? All other diode bands in your pics go to the unwired lug so hope this helps
In the 2nd pic it looks to me as though that yellow/red wire has been moved, in order to bypass the diode.. that diode would be doing NOTHING. I would be moving the wire back to the lug the opposite end of the diode (unbanded end) is soldered to, and replacing the diode.
the two lugs the wires are soldered to in that pic are the switch contacts, the 3rd lug is just an anchor point for the diode anode (unbanded end) and the wires, and just 'floats in the breeze' so to speak.
Solder the new diode back in just as the old one is, and move the yellow/red wires to the lug the unbanded end of the diode is soldered to. The original diode must have failed, and someone just said.."oh i'll just bypass it" ::)
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Here are some pictures of these switches on my machine, hope they help. *%*
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Here are some pictures of these switches on my machine, hope they help. *%*
Defiantly, thank you very much for posting these pics. Both of the switches you've posted are wired differently to mine, so that's a good start. Does yours lock the first ball that goes into the tube or do you need to light it first?
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In the 2nd pic it looks to me as though that yellow/red wire has been moved, in order to bypass the diode.. that diode would be doing NOTHING. I would be moving the wire back to the lug the opposite end of the diode (unbanded end) is soldered to, and replacing the diode.
the two lugs the wires are soldered to in that pic are the switch contacts, the 3rd lug is just an anchor point for the diode anode (unbanded end) and the wires, and just 'floats in the breeze' so to speak.
Solder the new diode back in just as the old one is, and move the yellow/red wires to the lug the unbanded end of the diode is soldered to. The original diode must have failed, and someone just said.."oh i'll just bypass it" ::)
Thanks for that. I've moved the wires over, I'll just have to get a new diode and hopefully it'll work properly.
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I would leave the wires as they were originally as this looks the correct way, But i reckon some one has put the diode on incorrectly . And if one is wrong i would check all the others just in case. And check or renew/ resolder the header pins on the cpu as this causes switch problems
Once I get these problems sorted the boards are all going of to Beaky as all of them have all manor of hacks preformed on them. I'll replace the connector here also so hopefully that eliminates any problems there to.
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The ball spits straight out, until you light 3 Xenon Xs. Then she says shoot for the tube which locks the first ball, then you light 3 more Xs and get the 2 nd ball in the top hole to start multi ball
When the first ball is locked, tube shots eject the first ball back into play, and hold the second ball, until you light the three Xs again and shoot the top hole.
Cheers Ian
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The ball spits straight out, until you light 3 Xenon Xs. Then she says shoot for the tube which locks the first ball, then you light 3 more Xs and get the 2 nd ball in the top hole to start multi ball
When the first ball is locked, tube shots eject the first ball back into play, and hold the second ball, until you light the three Xs again and shoot the top hole.
Cheers Ian
Thanks Ian,
That's exactly as I thought but its nice to have it confirmed. It's bloody strange to have it work in every other way apart from holding the ball without lighting the X's
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The ball spits straight out, until you light 3 Xenon Xs. Then she says shoot for the tube which locks the first ball, then you light 3 more Xs and get the 2 nd ball in the top hole to start multi ball
When the first ball is locked, tube shots eject the first ball back into play, and hold the second ball, until you light the three Xs again and shoot the top hole.
Cheers Ian
Thanks Ian,
That's exactly as I thought but its nice to have it confirmed. It's bloody strange to have it work in every other way apart from holding the ball without lighting the X's
I hope its as easy to fix as swapping a few switch wires, and maybe a diode.
Good luck with it, as this is a very nice machine to own.
Cheers Ian
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One problem solved! Thanks again for the pictures Ian. I swapped the wires around on the switch which under the apron and now the balls load into the shooter lane as there suppose to. Hopefully once I get a diode to change over with the faulty one on the other switch that problem will be resolved also.
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Good news, i hope the diode solves your other ploblem.
cheers Ian
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Good news, i hope the diode solves your other ploblem.
cheers Ian
I managed to find some diodes (knew I had some somewhere) and all good. The machines working just as it should now. $#$ The diode was around the right way it was just the wring that was wrong.
The boards are heading up to Beaky this week and ill change a connector on the sound board which has been playing up a little and that will be it for this game. That is until Flash Gordon is finished then Xenon will get a full restoration.
Thank you to everybody who offered advice and pictures to help me get these problems sorted, it was greatly appreciated. @@*
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No problems glad to help out
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No problems glad to help out
+1 .. Good to know you got it sorted ^^^ ^^^
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Good news on the Xenon ^^^
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$#$
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The boards have gone to Beaky and I miss her already. Here's a pic all lit up. It's not the best pic but its the only one I took while I could still turn it on.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/05/nyhe3age.jpg)
I've also pulled the door apart for a clean up, figured I may as well while the boards are gone I can't play it anyway.
With all the rust It looks like its had its far share of drinks spilt down the front of it.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/05/ugynyzy9.jpg)
Shot blasted and off for zinc treatment. I always take a picture of the components all laid out before taking them to the electroplaters just in case they loose something. At least that way I can workout what the hell I'm missing if it ever came to that. The flipper brackets are in there to.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/05/ube9y4eb.jpg)
Hopefully I can get it all back together before the boards arrive back.
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As you can see Beaky has his work in front of him too! Good luck with it Andrew. ^^^
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/05/8eqajame.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/05/eta8ujy9.jpg)
It's a bit hard to tell in the second pic but there are a lot of wires going directly to the back of the boards.
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Tabs one nasty looking coin door
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Yes, it doesn't look the best and it felt very gritty to the touch but once I removed all the crap everything is still in good nick and will come back together very nicely.
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How much does it cost to get all that stuff re plated.
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How much does it cost to get all that stuff re plated.
Ha, I think there is a whole other story about the mob in Albury that are doing the plating for Adam but I will let him tell the story.
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How much does it cost to get all that stuff re plated.
There's only one Electroplaters in Albury so I have little choice of where to go but as far as price is concerned these guys have a minimum charge of $30 for zinc plating. So when I take stuff in I make sure I have enough to take in to make it worthwhile for my $30. I had about 60 individual pieces in the last lot I took in and that cost $40. Size matters also of course. Chrome plating is quite a bit more again and the turn around time is a round a month for chrome but only a couple of days for zinc.
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How much does it cost to get all that stuff re plated.
Ha, I think there is a whole other story about the mob in Albury that are doing the plating for Adam but I will let him tell the story.
I was telling Blair today about my latest experience with the friendly *.* local electroplaters. I dropped my last lot of gear off for zincing last Thursday and went in at lunch time today thinking that it'd be ready, anyway I'm standing at the counter and scouring the shelves and the floor area (cause thats where they keep things here) off to the side for a box with my name on it while I was waiting for the nice lady *.* to get up out of her office and serve me. Any way I can't see anything and then I look at all the crap laying about on the counter top and see two of the three boxs of parts I brought in, still untouched sitting in the exact spot I placed them down on 6 days earlier! The nice lady *.* then comes out, looks at me, then looks at my stuff and says "you dropp'en this stuff off are ya"? Long story short(er) we sort it out but not before the nice lady's *.* son also has a look and tells me he was just look'en at that stuff too and was wondering which bits were suppose to be getting chromed. I then explain that there was another box with 7 pieces in it which is no longer sitting here that are suppose to be getting chromed. He tells me that someone must have grabbed them already and there probably getting done as we speak.
It obviously didn't fill me with the greatest of confidence to say the least. Anyway I have the photos so if worst came to worst at least I should be able to identify what's missing but god I hope it doesn't come to that! ^&^
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I can't believe I missed this thread !@#
I think a resto thread is in order #@#
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I can't believe I missed this thread !@#
I think a resto thread is in order #@#
Yes, I was only going to post a photo of the machine with lights on, but got carried away. Restoration thread to follow once the parts are back.
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The plating crowd sound very reliable, hope they havnt lost any of your parts. @.@
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I was telling Blair today about my latest experience with the friendly *.* local electroplaters. I dropped my last lot of gear off for zincing last Thursday and went in at lunch time today thinking that it'd be ready, anyway I'm standing at the counter and scouring the shelves and the floor area (cause thats where they keep things here) off to the side for a box with my name on it while I was waiting for the nice lady *.* to get up out of her office and serve me. Any way I can't see anything and then I look at all the crap laying about on the counter top and see two of the three boxs of parts I brought in, still untouched sitting in the exact spot I placed them down on 6 days earlier! The nice lady *.* then comes out, looks at me, then looks at my stuff and says "you dropp'en this stuff off are ya"? Long story short(er) we sort it out but not before the nice lady's *.* son also has a look and tells me he was just look'en at that stuff too and was wondering which bits were suppose to be getting chromed. I then explain that there was another box with 7 pieces in it which is no longer sitting here that are suppose to be getting chromed. He tells me that someone must have grabbed them already and there probably getting done as we speak.
It obviously didn't fill me with the greatest of confidence to say the least. Anyway I have the photos so if worst came to worst at least I should be able to identify what's missing but god I hope it doesn't come to that! ^&^
They sound totally hopeless . ::) Just cause they are the only platers in town doesn't mean they shouldn't run their business efficiently ^.^
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I was telling Blair today about my latest experience with the friendly *.* local electroplaters. I dropped my last lot of gear off for zincing last Thursday and went in at lunch time today thinking that it'd be ready, anyway I'm standing at the counter and scouring the shelves and the floor area (cause thats where they keep things here) off to the side for a box with my name on it while I was waiting for the nice lady *.* to get up out of her office and serve me. Any way I can't see anything and then I look at all the crap laying about on the counter top and see two of the three boxs of parts I brought in, still untouched sitting in the exact spot I placed them down on 6 days earlier! The nice lady *.* then comes out, looks at me, then looks at my stuff and says "you dropp'en this stuff off are ya"? Long story short(er) we sort it out but not before the nice lady's *.* son also has a look and tells me he was just look'en at that stuff too and was wondering which bits were suppose to be getting chromed. I then explain that there was another box with 7 pieces in it which is no longer sitting here that are suppose to be getting chromed. He tells me that someone must have grabbed them already and there probably getting done as we speak.
It obviously didn't fill me with the greatest of confidence to say the least. Anyway I have the photos so if worst came to worst at least I should be able to identify what's missing but god I hope it doesn't come to that! ^&^
They sound totally hopeless . ::) Just cause they are the only platers in town doesn't mean they shouldn't run their business efficiently ^.^
Spot on but no use complaining to this lot, they wouldn't take any notice anyway. I fact they have a red button mounted to the middle of a rabbit trap on the wall with a sign which says press button for complaints department.
Pretty well sums it up!
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Hi guys,
I have developed some problems with this machine again. Both are similar to last time. Firstly at the start of the game the ball won't advance out to the shooter lane. But if I physically push the first ball through into the shooter lane then for the rest of that game the balls load up just fine. At the end of the game I'm back to square one again though.
I have a feeling its the micro switch pictured below which is the problem. I haven't been able to find a direct replacement for this switch. Does anybody know if these are still available or if there's another one which will do the same job?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/22/jureqane.jpg)
Next problem is that the ball won't eject out of the exit chamber at the end of the tube again. I've just replaced the switch as well and it's made no difference at all. The coil kicks out in test just fine.
All of the boards have just been repaired and some connectors replaced but I've been over the connectors many times and wires are where they should be. Also the fuses have all been tested and also good.
Any advice would be welcome. It's getting fairly frustrating. Thanks.
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Go into switch dianogtics and test suspicious switches. You may have a stuck switch
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Go into switch dianogtics and test suspicious switches. You may have a stuck switch
Thanks Dan,
It shows Switch 28 ball release #2 as having an issue. This is the micro switch I thought was the problem earlier. If I push the switch arm though the fault goes away so I'm not sure what this means. Looking at the manual it looks like I have to fix each one before the next one shows up as a fault if there are more.
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Take
All the balls out and test
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That was with the balls out. The pinballs that is !@) %.%
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am i missing something or is there a diode missing from the switch or is it on a tag else where? !@#
The board has had 2 New PIA chips fitted
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am i missing something or is there a diode missing from the switch or is it on a tag else where? !@#
The board has had 2 New PIA chips fitted
There's currently no diode on the micro switch. Is there suppose to be? I'm unsure as this is a reasonably new game to me but there wasn't one when I brought it. I'm sure the problem is with the switch on the ball release but I have no idea about the exit chamber kick out.
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the diode must be somewhere else as it is shown in the schematic but not on the photo of the switch
the way yours is wired is correct. sorry to confuse you
(http://forum-img.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=608029&bbat=66835&inline)
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the diode must be somewhere else as it is shown in the schematic but not on the photo of the switch
the way yours is wired is correct. sorry to confuse you
(http://forum-img.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=608029&bbat=66835&inline)
No worries, thanks Andrew. Anybody with a Xenon know where the diode is located?
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its under the playfield
see top right of photo (white wire with yellow band)
ignore the yellow capacitor which only has one lead connected in the photo
(http://www.ipdb.org/images/2821/image-31.jpg)
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A was just re-reading the thread. So this is the same problem you had originally that was fixed?, and now has started again. I would double check all switch tests again. Test every thing, making sure the correct switch is triggering against the manual. Also do the same for the Solenoid test.
Also have the connectors been redone or original.
To test your switches you could desolder and meter them to see if the open/close.
It may also be the switch matrix. You may find all the switches on the same
Matrix Line or row, are not working. Could
Be a bad solderjoint, broken and loose wire, connector.
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its under the playfield
see top right of photo (white wire with yellow band)
ignore the yellow capacitor which only has one lead connected in the photo
Diode on mine is there but I don't have a capacitor in the same spot. I'll replace the diode anyway and see if that makes a difference. I dont know much about diodes but I only have 4004's but I think the switch diodes are suppose to be 4148's, is there much difference? Should I also be adding a capacitor here? if yes what size?
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A was just re-reading the thread. So this is the same problem you had originally that was fixed?, and now has started again. I would double check all switch tests again. Test every thing, making sure the correct switch is triggering against the manual. Also do the same for the Solenoid test.
Also have the connectors been redone or original.
To test your switches you could desolder and meter them to see if the open/close.
It may also be the switch matrix. You may find all the switches on the same
Matrix Line or row, are not working. Could
Be a bad solderjoint, broken and loose wire, connector.
Yes it's the same problem. I'll try not to make this to long winded but here's a bit of background. I brought the machine from another member who had also brought it to have it restored. He sent it off to be restored but then decided to sell it before it it reached the front of the restoration queue. He then sold it to me but hadn't really played it. So the machine came to me with these problems.
The first time around the fix was just to relocate some of the wire back onto different lugs. Obviously now I believe that the switches are wired correctly but the problem is back.
I haven't had this machine going for a while myself as I've just had all of the boards repaired as there were a lot of hacks on most of them. While the boards have been away I've replaced some of the molex connectors also.
I don't think the issue has anything to do with the boards and I've been over and over the connectors which I've replaced and I can't find anything wrong there either. I actually think this problem has been around long before the previous owner had the machine because both of these switches were wired incorrectly which I can only imagine was done while someone else was trying to problem solve the issue.
I've now replaced the switch in the captive hole but it hasn't made any difference. The coils all test and are working fine and the micro switch failed in test. From this I think I need to replace the micro switch and diode (also cross my fingers) and as suggested go back over the rest of the wiring and solder joints associated with the other captive hole switch.
Thanks for the advice Dan and Andrew.
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When you say the switch failed. It did not activate in the test mode?
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When you say the switch failed. It did not activate in the test mode?
It's switch number just came up during the switch test mode in the audits on the machine.
The switch matrix shows that these issues are unrelated to each other also.
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So was being activated? Number on all the time.?
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So was being activated? Number on all the time.?
Yes but if I push the switch arm simulating a ball the error clears.
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Not an error, seems to working in reverse . Can anyone confirm if rhis switch is normally open or closed.
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You may need to meter the switch to see identify the terminals open close common. May be wired as open or closed
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You may need to meter the switch to see identify the terminals open close common. May be wired as open or closed
I'm not exactly sure how to do that.
I have now also changed the molex connector on the board. The previous connectors I'd changed weren't related to these switches. I tested them for continuality and they seemed to be fine but I chande the whole connector over anyway. Made no difference though.
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You did try swapping the wires around on that trough switch didn't you which didn't make any difference? I think that might be what Dan is referring to.
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There are three terminals on the switch, you may find that one is common, one is normal closed, one is normally open. It think it is probably connect to common and normally closed , ir may need o be common and normally open. Use a multimeter set to continuity
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There are three terminals on the switch, you may find that one is common, one is normal closed, one is normally open. It think it is probably connect to common and normally closed , ir may need o be common and normally open. Use a multimeter set to continuity
I've metered the terminals as well as trying both wires in every possible combination on the three terminals but nothing unfortunately.
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Go back to the switch test. Remove the balls and reset the Drop Target bank so they are all reset.
Your switch test should read "0".
Flick each switch in the trough and make sure that he corresponding switch is the correct switch as per the manual. Simulate the ball in the trough, and watch what the switch test does as it rolls over each switch. It may simply be a matter of adjusting the switch. I had similar issues with Fathom.
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Go back to the switch test. Remove the balls and reset the Drop Target bank so they are all reset.
Your switch test should read "0".
Flick each switch in the trough and make sure that he corresponding switch is the correct switch as per the manual. Simulate the ball in the trough, and watch what the switch test does as it rolls over each switch. It may simply be a matter of adjusting the switch. I had similar issues with Fathom.
Just tryed that. The only way I can make the test read 0 is to hold the micro switch ( 28 Ball Release) arm down. All switches then register as they should including the other problem switch 33 Side Saucer.
I really don't know what to make of it but the other thing that happens when I do start a game by pushing the first ball past the "ball release 03 solenoid" ( this then triggers the solinoid to release another ball after the first one drains). Once I've lost all the balls in the game, I have to turn the machine off and then on again. As simply pushing start again and pushing the ball through the ball release only works once per start up.
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Go back to the switch test. Remove the balls and reset the Drop Target bank so they are all reset.
Your switch test should read "0".
Flick each switch in the trough and make sure that he corresponding switch is the correct switch as per the manual. Simulate the ball in the trough, and watch what the switch test does as it rolls over each switch. It may simply be a matter of adjusting the switch. I had similar issues with Fathom.
Just tryed that. The only way I can make the test read 0 is to hold the micro switch ( 28 Ball Release) arm down. All switches then register as they should including the other problem switch 33 Side Saucer.
I really don't know what to make of it but the other thing that happens when I do start a game by pushing the first ball past the "ball release 03 solenoid" ( this then triggers the solinoid to release another ball after the first one drains). Once I've lost all the balls in the game, I have to turn the machine off and then on again. As simply pushing start again and pushing the ball through the ball release only works once per start up.
Sounds like Switch 28 is not wired correctly. a "Normally Open" switch is incorrectly wired as "Normally closed".
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I've just re- wired the switch so it reads 0 in test. Unfortunately it still won't load the ball into the shooter lane.
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Shows 0 in test, does it also show 28 when you push it down.
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In a genuine attempt to save the life of another pinball machine, I will give you $499.95 CASH for the Xenon before you throw it in the pool.
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I give you $500 neat... I think you will eventually find the faults you have , will be in the end simple fixes.
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Also when using the multi meter on the switch. Make sure machine is off. Also disconnect at least one wire. Put multimeter on continuity . Test switch by pushing the switch wire up and down to see if it works. Should get continuity when wire pressed down. And no reading when switch not depressed. If it does work, after trying different terminals on the switch. You need a new switch.
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If the switches is ok. I would then double check the solenoid wiring at the connector, you may have solenoids mixed up??
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Shows 0 in test, does it also show 28 when you push it down.
Yes it still shows 28 when I push down. In a genuine attempt to save the life of another pinball machine, I will give you $499.95 CASH for the Xenon before you throw it in the pool.
I give you $500 neat... I think you will eventually find the faults you have , will be in the end simple fixes.
I wish you guys had offered that before I lugged it up the stairs on to the balcony. I wanted a BIG splash!
Also when using the multi meter on the switch. Make sure machine is off. Also disconnect at least one wire. Put multimeter on continuity . Test switch by pushing the switch wire up and down to see if it works. Should get continuity when wire pressed down. And no reading when switch not depressed. If it does work, after trying different terminals on the switch. You need a new switch.
I'll try this tonight.
If the switches is ok. I would then double check the solenoid wiring at the connector, you may have solenoids mixed up??
This also. I know there all functioning but I didn't check that during test that the solenoids fired in the right order. Thanks again for all of the advice. I'm sure ill get to the bottom of it, it's just when in the problem.
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Switch is good. Next check solenoid wiring at the connector. Use the schematic as a reference.
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I really thought I was on a winner here. Great advice by Dan lead me back to the solenoid connector with two loose contacts on the connector. One for the Ball release and the other for side saucer kick out. Changed the whole connector and all contacts and made no difference. Bloody annoying.
I tripped the ball release a few times to run few balls though and see what happened but with the change I made to the switch wiring this morning it just wants to keep kicking both balls out so I still think the wiring was correct the way it was before. When the game was working it certainly worked that way.
Picture below is of the connector before I changed it over. Hard to see but the two top contacts are loose and bent over almost to the point of falling out.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/24/u7u5epag.jpg)
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New connectors in and wired the same as the last one. Can anyone tell me if there's is wired the same it's the J5 connector on the solenoid driver
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/24/5a7ebajy.jpg)
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I thought you had replaced all connectors or am I thinking of FG?
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Xenon owners please confirm switch 28 is open or closed, with balls out. In switch test. I think the gap or switch is stuck on .
Wait for a response from a xenon owner.
Then Do the switch test again and test with and with out balls. And double check with other owners .
Also adam ,how many balls in xenon 2?
I hope i am not leading you astray.
I think, this is the extent of my trouble shooting skills. Got me stumped. Next i would swap board to see if its board related.? Not sure??
I will leave the rest of the comments to the more experienced.
$500 offer is now looking better. Or some under water pinball could be fun.
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I thought you had replaced all connectors or am I thinking of FG?
Started both, finished neither.
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Xenon owners please confirm switch 28 is open or closed, with balls out. In switch test. I think the gap or switch is stuck on .
Wait for a response from a xenon owner.
Then Do the switch test again and test with and with out balls. And double check with other owners .
Also adam ,how many balls in xenon 2?
I hope i am not leading you astray.
I think, this is the extent of my trouble shooting skills. Got me stumped. Next i would swap board to see if its board related.? Not sure??
I will leave the rest of the comments to the more experienced.
$500 offer is now looking better. Or some under water pinball could be fun.
Yes two ball in Xenon. Thanks for the all the advice Dan, at least I've been able to count a few things out.
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sorry mine has a crook mpu .. i can only help with things i can check with it powered off
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sorry mine has a crook mpu .. i can only help with things i can check with it powered off
No worries.
I swapped the solenoid driver board over with the one out of my Flash Gordon. Didn't make any difference but at least that's one more thing of the list of potential causes.
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Well I'm still trying to figure out the problems with this game. No luck yet but the latest thing I've tried to do to at least get the ball to load onto the shooter lane is to swap the micro switch over for another one. It didn't work but the left sling shot fired randomly while I swapped wires onto different lugs on the new switch. What does this mean?
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sorry mine has a crook mpu .. i can only help with things i can check with it powered off
No worries.
I swapped the solenoid driver board over with the one out of my Flash Gordon. Didn't make any difference but at least that's one more thing of the list of potential causes.
I did a solenoid test with your mpu and driver board connected together on the test bench, plus i triggered each switch individually as well and made sure only one switch was showing up on the display at a time. I do this before sending any board out, even if a set of boards comes in for a solenoid problem all switch inputs are also tested before the boards are sent out.
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sorry mine has a crook mpu .. i can only help with things i can check with it powered off
No worries.
I swapped the solenoid driver board over with the one out of my Flash Gordon. Didn't make any difference but at least that's one more thing of the list of potential causes.
I did a solenoid test with your mpu and driver board connected together on the test bench, plus i triggered each switch individually as well and made sure only one switch was showing up on the display at a time. I do this before sending any board out, even if a set of boards comes in for a solenoid problem all switch inputs are also tested before the boards are sent out.
Thanks Andrew, and yes there's no problem with the boards. Everything tests just fine. The issues with the game are a complete mystery to me at the moment.
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just thought i would let you know ^^^
i do theses tests as some times people forget to mention or are totally unaware of other faults on their boards.
^^^
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Big thanks to Blair (Pintoxicated) once again got me out of trouble with a machine. Problems now fixed with the Xenon. One switch out of whack caused an enormous amount of issues. All good now. $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$
To top it all off I beat him in each game afterwards! But I don't like to gloat <.> <.> <.> <.> <.>
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Glad to hear, its all going. I would love to have a game one day.
So not selling xenon for $500 or dropping her in the pool.
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Big thanks to Blair (Pintoxicated) once again got me out of trouble with a machine. Problems now fixed with the Xenon. One switch out of whack caused an enormous amount of issues. All good now. $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$
To top it all off I beat him in each game afterwards! But I don't like to gloat <.> <.> <.> <.> <.>
Glad to see that the Xenon is back up and running 100% and happy to have helped.
I note there is no mention of who whipped who on the 6MDM though. ;o)
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Which switch ? Was the trough switch wired correctly etc ?
Glad to hear it works ^^^
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Which switch ? Was the trough switch wired correctly etc ?
Glad to hear it works ^^^
There were a couple of things.
Switch 08 which I will call the ball eject switch wasn't registering when the ball was sitting on it. When Adam pushed the ball a bit it was enough for the switch to register and he could start a game. I adjusted the switch arm as well as cleaning the leaf contacts which were pretty dirty and that solved that problem.
Switch 28 which is the switch that was being concentrated on throughout the thread wasn't wired correctly. We had a look at the pics of other Xenon owner's switches and couldn't confirm that they were the exact same switch so we couldn't guarantee that just copying the way someone else's machine was wired up was necessarily going to work for this machine. After a bit of trial and error, we found a configuration that worked...the ball ejected when it was supposed to with only one ball at a time being loaded into the shooter lane as opposed to having both balls eject. This all in turn got the tube kickout working properly as well seeing as it was on the same column in the switch matrix.
Adam may be able to upload a pic of the way we ended up wiring switch 28 ????
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well done #*#
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Glad to hear, its all going. I would love to have a game one day.
So not selling xenon for $500 or dropping her in the pool.
Thanks again for all of your advice to Dan and yes it is once again safe from the pool.
Your also most welcome to drop in for a game if your ever down Albury way. Once I've finished the Flash Gordon I'll defiantly be holding a meet around at my place. With a bit of luck I'll have a few more games by then too. In fact I have another of my wish list machine to pick up in Melbourne night!
Big thanks to Blair (Pintoxicated) once again got me out of trouble with a machine. Problems now fixed with the Xenon. One switch out of whack caused an enormous amount of issues. All good now. $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$
To top it all off I beat him in each game afterwards! But I don't like to gloat <.> <.> <.> <.> <.>
Glad to see that the Xenon is back up and running 100% and happy to have helped.
I note there is no mention of who whipped who on the 6MDM though. ;o)
No, no mention of that. I didn't want to ruin a good story with all the facts! <.> %.%
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Which switch ? Was the trough switch wired correctly etc ?
Glad to hear it works ^^^
As Blair has said Switch 8 was the culprit. After playing the game quite a few times last night switch 28 the micro switch has some intermittent problems where it kicks out two balls at a time but after looking for a replacement switch by googling Xenon micro switch I actually found that this is a very common problem with this switch there's quite a few other different forum posts with the same problem. Apparently it's all in the positioning of the switch arm itself. I will need to make some adjustments so its sitting in exactly the right spot other wise I'll sometimes have two balls at a time load into the shooter lane. I'm out of town tonight so I'm hopeful that this is minor and its easily adjusted tomorrow.
well done #*#
Thanks mate
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Good result an have taken note for future ref on my ss games
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Hi Guys, Ive got a Xenon as well, and its been playing beautiful for years, a little while back it started to do the old two balls in the shooter lane
as mentioned in this thread, i cleaned switch contacts on switches 08 and 02 it would play ok for a while then start the two ball thing again,
i remember this thread from along time ago and tried some of the tips from other members.
the switch test checked out ok as well.
I finally found the problem, i took off the apron and watched the balls doing there thing, the 2nd ball would just go straight through to the shooter lane
and join the other ball that was already sitting there waiting to be plunged.
so i started activating switches with my finger, first switch 28 then hold down switch 02 where the ball should wait, the kicker did not attempt to kick out the second ball (my finger),
but when putting the ball through it would play up.
turns out that the ball was activating both switches 28 and 02 at the same time, when adjusting the switches properly the problem was solved.
on my machine there is a very fine line between switch 28 turning off and switch 02 switching on.
Hope this may help someone in the future.
Ian
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Hi Guys, Ive got a Xenon as well, and its been playing beautiful for years, a little while back it started to do the old two balls in the shooter lane
as mentioned in this thread, i cleaned switch contacts on switches 08 and 02 it would play ok for a while then start the two ball thing again,
i remember this thread from along time ago and tried some of the tips from other members.
the switch test checked out ok as well.
I finally found the problem, i took off the apron and watched the balls doing there thing, the 2nd ball would just go straight through to the shooter lane
and join the other ball that was already sitting there waiting to be plunged.
so i started activating switches with my finger, first switch 28 then hold down switch 02 where the ball should wait, the kicker did not attempt to kick out the second ball (my finger),
but when putting the ball through it would play up.
turns out that the ball was activating both switches 28 and 02 at the same time, when adjusting the switches properly the problem was solved.
on my machine there is a very fine line between switch 28 turning off and switch 02 switching on.
Hope this may help someone in the future.
Ian
That's been my experience with those 2 switches as well. Very fine line adjusting them just right. Fortunately my Xenon hasn't missed a beat in years now......wish I could say the same about some of my other games!
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At least we know what to look for now, the ball travels through that area so fast it was hard to see any problem.
Glad to here your Xenon is working perfectly, its a great game with amazing artwork, sometimes i just lean on the glass and look at the art.
Hope you sort out your other game problems.
Ian
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At least we know what to look for now, the ball travels through that area so fast it was hard to see any problem.
Glad to here your Xenon is working perfectly, its a great game with amazing artwork, sometimes i just lean on the glass and look at the art.
Hope you sort out your other game problems.
Ian
Thanks Ian, Xenon's still the game I play the most. I have every intention of doing a complete restoration on mine but I don't look forward to having it out of action while I do it.