The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: MartyJ on November 18, 2008, 08:27:17 PM
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Hi guys,
A question to throw over to the experts...My D.E Simpsons has it slightly and moreso with the LAH is buzzing / noise from the speakers. It is most noticable when in attract mode, and you seem to get the G.I interference when they flash on and off.
I've done some research which suggests firstly - make sure boards are screwed in tightly (this is done).
Secondly - there is some information about replacing the caps on the sound board. This I have not done, as I am unsure what caps they are referring to and what values need to be replaced etc..
Thirdly on the rec.games.pinball I found a suggestion about a stern service bulletin which refers to buzzing at low sound volume... This I am unsure of and don't even know if they are the same boards.
http://www.sternpinball.com/downloads/sb133.pdf
I would not say the noise is unbearable and I am aware it is a feature of D.E pins but any advise would be appreciated! @.@
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Great info here Marty,
http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index3.htm#sound
Check your ground straps to the display board. Clay's doco also explains the revision of the boards.
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Great info here Marty,
http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index3.htm#sound
Check your ground straps to the display board. Clay's doco also explains the revision of the boards.
Thanks Nino,
I've re-checked the grounding straps, from the backboard (tightened up the one which goes onto the locking mech, but others all good. Checked its path back to where it hits the transformer and all in tact.
According to Clay's site it states the sound board should be 520-5050-03. The sticker (little white one) on mine reads 520-5050-02. Clays states the boards are not upwards/downwards compatible then further reading (google) suggests it can be changed with jumpers? I am a little confused with the jumpers as to what I should have. As far as I know I am getting sounds / music that I should be.
So if this sound board is OK to be used (nil probs except for hum / G.I noise) I will look at changing the cap.
His site states:
Also it could mean the large filter capacitor (usually 1000 mfd at 16 volts) on the sound board needs to be replaced. Look for a large capacitor that connects +5 volts to ground.
This is the second part. Not having the schematics I don't know which is the 'larger capacitor that connects +5 volts to ground' on the actual sound board. From a visual inspection there is a larger capacitor on there (well bigger than others). Third question what replacement do I purchase - ie 1000 mfd filter capacitor or is a greater one required?
Thanks again
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The capacitor you should be looking for will read on it 1000uf 16V.
The voltage is not so important, it could be 16V, 20V etc, It will definately NOT be under 16v.
replacement should read same capacitance value - 1000uf but voltage rating can be 16v or higher
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The capacitor you should be looking for will read on it 1000uf 16V.
The voltage is not so important, it could be 16V, 20V etc, It will definately NOT be under 16v.
replacement should read same capacitance value - 1000uf but voltage rating can be 16v or higher
Last noob question (for tonight) is 1000mdf the same as 1000uf?
ie.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RE6316&CATID=51&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=859
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The capacitor you should be looking for will read on it 1000uf 16V.
The voltage is not so important, it could be 16V, 20V etc, It will definately NOT be under 16v.
replacement should read same capacitance value - 1000uf but voltage rating can be 16v or higher
Last noob question (for tonight) is 1000mdf the same as 1000uf?
ie.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RE6316&CATID=51&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=859
Yep, mfd = uf or more correctly uF
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Marty - download a manual of a game around the same period - then you can check the CPU / PSU schematics etc...
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uF ??? - LOL
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uF ??? - LOL
Well, don't know enough to put the micro symbol in, but a lot of people use u instead of micro including Jaycar
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Marty - download a manual of a game around the same period - then you can check the CPU / PSU schematics etc...
Hi Nino,
I've d/l the D.E LAH manual from IPDB but nil schematic...I found what I was looking for with Pinball-Fixers for sound board!!!
I've pulled the board out and obs that all the caps were 25v not 16v. I've swapped out the one which I believe was correct (C30) and put new cap in. Nil value. Still the same with G.I interference so I guess what I've got is as good as it will get....
Next time I'm down at Marks I'll have a listen to his NIB LAH and compare & I'll try my hardest not to buy another machine!
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& I'll try my hardest not to buy another machine!
[/quote]
not if i have anything to say about it :lol :lol
mate you are more than welcome to come in
its still the best ever LAH I have seen
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I've got some DE schematics I can email over if useful (maybe to keep for next time anyway). Shoot me your email addy and I'll send over.
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OK, in between working on the PF, I have played a few games on my LAH today....The humming on the sound is starting to get to me.. ^.^
At this stage I've only replaced the one cap on the sound board (as per Clay's guide)...All backbox pcb screws are present and tight (even bought some new ones from Mark)...The two connectors which attach the screen display / speaker panel are on and tight to the metal tabs.
My question is - will replacing the -12v caps on the power supply have any assistance? Or should I look elsewhere?
Thanks guys
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to a certain point all DE games do this...its mesmerising in attract mode !!!
AG&C games also buzz a bit with lamp shows..turn it up !!!
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to a certain point all DE games do this...its mesmerising in attract mode !!!
AG&C games also buzz a bit with lamp shows..turn it up !!!
Hmm, I've read that too! But my D.E Simpsons has a little, but only about 25% of what LAH has. I get the G.I interference as well...
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DE's are prone to do this... It was so bad on my JP that the bottom speaker had its wires desoldered.
Did you check out Mark's LAH ?
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DE's are prone to do this... It was so bad on my JP that the bottom speaker had its wires desoldered.
Did you check out Mark's LAH ?
No, I actually forgot...I had too much System 11 running though my head....
I have some components ordered to do the -12v on the power supply. I doubt it will help but I'll cross it off the list.
The majority is coming from the r/h/s speaker...So another option may to be to find another speaker with better shielding
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Hi Martyj - Martyw here &&
It's probably no use shielding the hummy speaker if it's being driven by a hummy signal.
Quite possibly, the hum is coming from the main PSupply board, and you should probably make sure the caps in the main PSupply board are correct.
Depending on the type of buzz (i'd have to hear it) does your machine have a switchmode Psupply in it?
I'm assuming some newer machines do have these?
At worst case, it's simply poor design, and no doubt can be modified to cure the shortcuts the manufacturer made *)*
I'm in Melb too, happy to assist if required, i seem to always be at markc's these days hahahahaha.
Oh yeh, good luck *NOT* buying something at markc's, everytime i go there i buy something hahahaha.
Supporting the cause .....
Marty.
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Martyj and marty
you 2 play nice
now who got the f14 ?
you will fidn teh buzz is also in ballys williams too , mostly transformer noise
there are a few way to fix this even duckie can do it ....
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Hi Martyj - Martyw here &&
It's probably no use shielding the hummy speaker if it's being driven by a hummy signal.
Quite possibly, the hum is coming from the main PSupply board, and you should probably make sure the caps in the main PSupply board are correct.
Depending on the type of buzz (i'd have to hear it) does your machine have a switchmode Psupply in it?
I'm assuming some newer machines do have these?
At worst case, it's simply poor design, and no doubt can be modified to cure the shortcuts the manufacturer made *)*
I'm in Melb too, happy to assist if required, i seem to always be at markc's these days hahahahaha.
Oh yeh, good luck *NOT* buying something at markc's, everytime i go there i buy something hahahaha.
Supporting the cause .....
Marty.
Hi Marty,
I suspect your right about the signal which is driving the speakers. I have read post after post on google in relation to this. (a) it is very common on D.E's - which everyone on here as also stated correctly. I guess I need to remember that these machines were designed for arcades not homes.
The noise is a humm when just sitting there in attract mode and I get some G.I interference as well. I've replaced the main cap on the sound board, all backboard screws in and tight and I replaced the -12v cap on the sound board last night. Still the same.
I have a D.E Simpsons sitting next to it, and it is much much quieter. The Simpsons though looks like its had very little use in its life...
I recall reading a thread about AC leaking onto the -12vDC but I might be getting confused. ::)
Martyj and marty
you 2 play nice
now who got the f14 ?
you will fidn teh buzz is also in ballys williams too , mostly transformer noise
there are a few way to fix this even duckie can do it ....
You havn't sold the F14 (nooooooo)....I was really really hoping you would pop on a red cap and leave it under my xmas tree!
If there is a way to fix transformer noise I'll give it a go!
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OK..Been down to Marks this morning...His NIB LAH is quieter than mine so I will keep on working for a solution!
There has seemed to of been a mixup with the Marty's and the F14? Seems that the other one picked up the F14??!! #.#
Oh well......
I have a set (or very close to) supposedly NOS playfield plastics too for the F14...
Anyway thanks again to Mark for his excellent service this morning and for turning on all the machines for the wifey. Now she wants a Shrek (badly), CV, Rocky & Bullwinkle....... %$%
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OK..Been down to Marks this morning...His NIB LAH is quieter than mine so I will keep on working for a solution!
There has seemed to of been a mixup with the Marty's and the F14? Seems that the other one picked up the F14??!! #.#
Oh well......
I have a set (or very close to) supposedly NOS playfield plastics too for the F14...
Anyway thanks again to Mark for his excellent service this morning and for turning on all the machines for the wifey. Now she wants a Shrek (badly), CV, Rocky & Bullwinkle....... %$%
Hmmm ... CV
Great machine !
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I popped into Marks around lunchtime, pity we didnt catch up to chat about your DE-hum problem.
As Mark mentioned to me, most machines are quietened be mounting the transformer on a rubber or silastic bedding so they dont hum the cabinet.
Since yours seems to be in the speakers, you'll need to improve on the poor electronic design, since replacing caps isn't helping as yet.. ^.^
Marty Machine
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I popped into Marks around lunchtime, pity we didnt catch up to chat about your DE-hum problem.
As Mark mentioned to me, most machines are quietened be mounting the transformer on a rubber or silastic bedding so they dont hum the cabinet.
Since yours seems to be in the speakers, you'll need to improve on the poor electronic design, since replacing caps isn't helping as yet.. ^.^
Marty Machine
I tried Mark's method this arvo. I put about 7mm of silicon around the centre mass and pretty much in a square where the transformer sits. Didn't really help unfortunately. There is some noise (if I put my ear under where it sits, but it doesn't seem to be a vibration type. The G.I noise I will put up with as that is now accepted as norm. The other humm (also noticable mostly from right speaker) I will still need to look at....
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For future ref, to avoid labourous pouring of silicon etc, just lift the transformer onto a car/kitchen sponge or an old pillow, this will immediately isolate cabinet humming....then, you can move onto the silicon part or rubber blocks etc.
Is the soundboard (or speaker) anyway close to the transformer getting induced hum into the wiring?
Other than that, you might need to get techy with a Cro, and 'look' at the audio signal throughout the audio amp to see if the hum is within the sound board, or coming out of somewhere else?
I'd still like to see the power rails on the soundboard with a Cro, i reckon you could slam an extra 10,000uf to 50,000uf on the soundboard filter cap and note any difference.
Another thing to note, most of the older power supplies (not sure about modern ones) only use 1/2 wave rectifiers (2 diodes) on most of the Power Rails which means the A.C ripple voltage is a lot more noticeable (hum-wise) than if you used a full rectifier (4 diodes) in the supplies.....don't know why they always did that.
saving money on diodes ? !@#
It might also be some grounding humloop issues, at those high currents the varying lengths of ground wiring might also be the problem.
You might need to ensure that ALL ground wiring coming out the the main supply distribution are all EQUAL lengths to each card they go to....this means having some slack in the closer boards ground wiring to match the longer lengths to get to other cards.
This will help reduce stray currents that will riddle your rails with hum.
another manufacturuer oversight ??? !*!
Marty Machine.
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For future ref, to avoid labourous pouring of silicon etc, just lift the transformer onto a car/kitchen sponge or an old pillow, this will immediately isolate cabinet humming.
Is the soundboard (or speaker) anyway close to the transformer getting induced hum into the wiring?
Other than that, you might need to get techy with a Cro, and 'look' at the audio signal throughout the audio amp to see if the hum is within the sound board, or coming out of somewhere else?
I'd still like to see the power rails on the soundboard with a Cro, i reckon you could slam an extra 10,000uf to 50,000uf on the soundboard filter cap and note any difference.
Another thing to note, most of the older power supplies (not sure about modern ones) only use 1/2 wave rectifiers (2 diodes) on most of the Power Rails which means the A.C ripple voltage is a lot more noticeable (hum-wise) than if you used a full rectifier (4 diodes) in the supplies.....don't know why they always did that.
saving money on diodes ? !@#
Marty Machine.
There is a speaker on the bottom of the cab, quite close to the transformer. This is a possibility. I have not got any lead to put between them to shield...
The other option I was going to try tomorrow, is pop into Autobarn and see if I can get a set of 4", 4ohm (one way) speakers...or Jaycar....Its a cheap and easy swap.
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IF you can just lift the speaker out of the cabinet and maybe use temporary wires say 1 metre long to get it OUT of the cabinet, then monitor the humming.
Marty
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IF you can just lift the speaker out of the cabinet and maybe use temporary wires say 1 metre long to get it OUT of the cabinet, then monitor the humming.
Marty
OK, gone a couple of steps forward this morning. Pulled out speakers out of front display panel (very sad looking speakers). Went down to Jaycar and had a look at what they stock. There were some nice 4" speakers, but the cone would hit the grill, so no good. They had some cheap n nasty speakers almost identical to the ones that were in there (4" 4ohm). I guess cheap crap from 20yrs ago vs cheap crap now, now would probably be a bit better. At $3.80 each it was worth a shot. Put them in, a little better, but still humm.
So, keeping it simple I disconnected display speakers, tried again...Little better, but noise still there. Disconnected cab speaker...Noise still there. Soo, this makes me think that the transformer is to blame. Its on silicon at the moment, but maybe not enough. I will try pillow and see if that helps.
Do transformers buzz on their own without vibration?
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Marty, looks like you're getting there.....
Yes, transformers do hum on their own, especially old larger ones.
The laminations can come loose over time, and if it's a metal/rattly hum then you need to get the tranny re-dipped in laquer to seal it.
Otherwise you just need to work on resting your tranny on some form of isolating bed.
The silicon is probably still a bit too firm, and therefore transferring the hum from Tranny to cabinet.
Also to note, you might wanna mount the tranny on 4 rubber standoff posts, this way you get the main bulk of the tranny off the cabinet, and there's only 4 points of contact via the posts, although they should be rubber anyway, and absorb hum too.
Placing a foam/pillow block under the tranny can help support it and dampen the hum around the posts too.
Other options are to perhaps mount the tranny on it's own small wooden base (to keep it secure) and then mount the wooden base on the foam/rubber standoffs.....even 'spring' standoffs are an option.
In an ideal world, you would actually replace the BIG tranny with several smaller ones, they hum less (being smaller)
this will also isolate your power rails and stop current drain on 1 supply from flickering (dimming) the other one(s). but that's another avenue....
MM.
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Thanks Marty.
The humm is more electrical (if that makes sense)....Damm that silicon is tuff stuff. I cannot even move the transformer at the moment. Its glued tight ^.^
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OK, its off without wood or damage!
I put a peice of 1.25" think foam under the transformer just for a test. A little better. However the only thing which makes it go away is to disconnect both display speakers!
From before, there was a humm with all speakers removed. With the foam thats better.
So, I'm guessing there is noise coming into the sound on power somewhere? I don't care about the G.I noise, just this damm humm. !!!
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Understood, you're fighting 2 battles.
Is the cabinet hum (no speakers attached) really bad?
Maybe the main step is to focus on the speaker hum and fixing faulty supplies etc.
MM.
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No. With foam under the transformer (btw, if I cut it the same size, is it safe to leave under it?) with speakers (only backboard) detached is fine now.
Cab speaker left in, no different.
Once I reattach backboard speakers, loud humm is back.
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Depends how hot tranny gets, and if foam is easily melted.
A small sheet of ply/chipboard between the foam and tranny would certainly help.
can u extend backboard speakers and move away from cabinet to see if it improves? (might be too close to tranny?) otherwise it's still sounding like hum in the amplifier audio path.
MM.
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What I've done this arvo on this:
- rather than mount transformer on foam, I've used 4 x post rubbers (blk) under each foot and screwed back in
- removed sound board, ppb board & power board, sanded and cleaned each pad (for gnd) and re-flowed each and every connector pin
No different....
I havn't bothered with the CPU board as yet as I don't know if it will make any difference.?
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At least you've prevented a whoile lot of other problems down the track by cleaning re-soldering on the boards.
Do you have a manual for LAH? if i can check out the schematics i can tell you what to look at.
MM.
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At least you've prevented a whoile lot of other problems down the track by cleaning re-soldering on the boards.
Do you have a manual for LAH? if i can check out the schematics i can tell you what to look at.
MM.
The closest I had was these:
http://iobium.com/Pinbxxxx/Data%20East/Service/Data%20East%20Schematics.pdf
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!@# !@# !@# @@^
OK. ALL boards have been removed, pads cleaned and ALL connector pins reflowed completely.
I am beginning to think perhaps the PSU is causing these issues....I've checked the PSU with the following voltages recorded:
- - 12vDC is reading -14.68vDC
- +12vDC is reading 11.51vDC
- +5vDC is reading 4.97vDC
- (On CPU board)
- +5vDC is reading 4.9vDC
I have no idea whether the unbalanced DC can cause these issues. Game is functioning 100% however will need to be cleaned up...
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Those readings seem to be in spec enough, although the -12 (being -14) might have AC riding on it.
Can you measure AC volts with your meter? measure ALL those supplies again on the AC setting, and see what you get.
I would hope all supplies only show something like .2v (200mV) or preferably less.
MM.
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I tested as suggested on the CPU board. With the DMM set to X.XX on AC I got readings of 0.02vAC on the -12v and 0.25vAC on the +12. On the board (at the test points) it states unregulated so I don't know if this is a good indication. On the +5v on the CPU board I got readings of 0.00vAC.
There has to be something worn / not working somewhere as Mark's LAH at the factory is 80% quieter than mine...
Hmmm...
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All looks good, nothing to be alarmed about.
Can you measure volts on your sound board, both DC and AC.
MM.
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All looks good, nothing to be alarmed about.
Can you measure volts on your sound board, both DC and AC.
MM.
I will have to do tomorrow night. Been doing stuff all day and had enough for tonight..Don't want to break stuff as this usually happens when I'm tired.
FYI...Everywhere I google on RGP etc about this issue, the number one thing is grounding. Now, all board screws are in tight...Just for shits n giggles, I put the DMM on buzz and tested all grounds I could reach, within backbox & to earth pin on power plug. No problems located and it appears that ground is getting from backbox to earth pin on power.
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Hiya,
OK voltages are the same as above tested on TP's on PSU. AC checked out the same as well on the +/-12 & +5v.
After looking at schematics all day, I also replaced all 470uf 25v caps on sound board.
Fired her up, same.
The problem is the more I try to fix it, the more annoying this noise is getting. I am now completely out of ideas. So unless its dirty power coming from the PSU I'm stumped.
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I found this...I don't know if it will work on a D.E?
http://www.thepaisleys.com/PaisleyPinball/Monopoly/eliminate_backbox_hum_and_buzz.htm
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Yep, i read a similar article recently about turning down the gain of the audio amp.
As much as this 'bandaids' the problem, it's not really a fix.
There's still a reason WHY the amplifier (at original high-gain) is so succeptable to picking up the hum and passing it thru.
Call me old fashioned, but i like to ELIMINATE problems, not cover them. &&
MM.
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Yep, agreed on that MM.
Just to be complete, I put a new connector on the power plug for the audio board (just in case old earth was not making good contact). Still no better.
Also replaced BR on PSU as well.
I am now completely stumped and out of ideas. !!!
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At least you've given new life to most of the board by changing parts &&
I think you're at the point where you'll need a Cro to analyse the audio signal and follow it around the machine to see where it starts/stops, and look at all supplies carefully...even though you're replacing caps, maybe their too low in value by design?
for example, a large 470uf or 1,000uf might actually need an extra 1,000 to 4,700uf wired across it, to assist filtering....You might find the hum go instantly !
There might be a LAH service bulletin that states "filter cap too low in supply xxx, change to 10,000uf"
who knows ???
Maybe mark's (quiet) machine has this different cap fitted ????????
Other than that, the easy solution as a tempo measure will be the amplifier-gain mod, altering some resistors to quieten it.
Pity you dont have another LAH you could swap cards across with and see if the hum moves to the other machine.......not that i think mark will let you do that hehehehehe.
MM.
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There was a service bulletin for a similar problem on the Stern Site.. It involved changing a few components from memory.
Could be a "last resort" ?
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There was a service bulletin for a similar problem on the Stern Site.. It involved changing a few components from memory.
Could be a "last resort" ?
I did have quick look, but only found one for mis-wired speakers....It wasn't a thorough search as yet!
I might try to get some better speakers for it (the new ones did make some difference) (with shielding). If I can find some, I might try installing shielded cabling for speakers as well....Just as a last ditch effort
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Just for a test, before I do anything else as previously suggested I ran a new molex from the speaker out on sound board with new wires straight out of backbox a couple of metres to speaker sitting well away from machine. No different.
So I guess this eliminates noise introduced from loom and speakers being next to DMD.....
I just found the bulletin you were refering to Nino too.
http://www.sternpinball.com/downloads/sb133.pdf
I have no idea whether this would work on a D.E Soundboard for LAH. I would defer to the experts on that one.
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I went back to Jaycar this morning and bought some slightly less crappy 4" 4ohm speakers for the display panel. Although the hole patterns are the same, the new ones have a tweeter which sits proud of the mounting. I've made some wooden spacers to slip in, but I will try to get some circular spacers (mdf) to make it look a bit more professional.
I also installed some ferrite EMI things on speaker wiring. They didn't make much difference but the speakers did. The loud humm is now a slight humm and is now equal to that of my Simpsons, which is only slight. I still get the G.I noise but I'm satisfied that is a factory feature...
So I think the issue is resolved now!
Thanks again for everyones input... ^^^
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Interesting... so it was the crappy speakers that were used causing the problem...
That's a handy tip to know for future!
Mind you, having good speakers in pinballs does make a big difference to the sound.
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Interesting... so it was the crappy speakers that were used causing the problem...
That's a handy tip to know for future!
Mind you, having good speakers in pinballs does make a big difference to the sound.
Well, yes. But the strange thing was they were brand new crappy'olla speakers. The new (old) ones were just single cone cardboard $3.00 specials. The only reason I bought them because they were almost identical to the old ones..But still the humm, just slightly different tone.
With the new ones (dual cone) $30.00 ones from Jaycar - really did make a big difference. It now sounds the same as what Marks did at the factory. !@#
So I guess the moral of the story is that if you have a hum, and its not transformer vibration on the cab, and its not a grounding issue, and its not a cap issue, and its not a BR issue then upgrade the speakers in question and you should be better!
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Great perseverance, Marty..
A 5 minute job next time you buy a DE !
#*#
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Great perseverance, Marty..
A 5 minute job next time you buy a DE !
#*#
After taking your advise to go to Marks (& got away without buying a machine && ) I knew mine wasn't right.
I'm not happy with the mounting at the moment (if someone was to look, it does look a bit backyardish) but I've bought a set of MDF ring spacers for 4" speakers on Ebay. $8.95. They will be sprayed black then put in.
Not sure if I would buy another D.E...Not that I dislike them, but other than a GNR I think that would be it. (although the LAH was a sleeper and not expected)...
I really love the Sys 11 Williams. Such a nice game to play. But I should spread the love to a Gottlieb, a Stern (to keep wifey happy) and I wouldn't mind an Alvin G as I know nothing about them...
To be honest, any machine that comes along at the right price I wont discriminate!
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Wow, nice solve....eventually.
I think you mentioned earlier that the hum was dominate more in one speaker only?
I wonder if maybe the speaker was suffering a partially burnt coil form being overdriven too much (previous owner) and possible making it a little more resonant at low frequencies, especially 50Hz hum????
Also, i wonder if the original speakers are maybe generic audio speakers 20hz-20khz, and your replacements might be generic mid-range speakers for the 100's Hz upwards scale, therefore not being too resonant at low frequencies like 50Hz hum????
Also, the new speakers are now mounted on a spacer/washer/, i wonder if that's helping to isolate hum from the speaker into the spaeker-panel too??
Quite possibly the supply of cheapy generic speakers has been the problem right from manufacture.
I would have thought to use mid-high Freq speakers up top, and keep all the bass stuff in the cabinet bottom driver.
Nice find, glad you got thru it ;-)
MM.
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Just a couple of photos of finished product. Spacers are just generic MDF ones from eBay...Cost about $8.00....Slight modification to get them to fit and all good.
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Great work, Marty..
#*#
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hey not to rain on the parade, but i dont think that would have fixed it...my guess is you had the speaker cableing wrapped around something and inducted the noise, which since playing around in this general vicinity could also have 'moved' something else in the loom.
the other thing was it a 50hz hum or lamp matrix hum ( first is constant, second changes with lamp show)
glad you sorted it nonetheless
^^^
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Hi Nug,
The G.I noise is still there...Thats not going anywhere. The humm has gone from being very loud to quiet...The only thing which did this was a better quality speaker...??
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i know its worked, it just doesnt make 'electrical' sense !!!, measure the old speakers...