The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: robm on December 09, 2013, 08:48:59 PM
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I made a comment a while ago that i would like to tackle the project of converting a WPC95 NBA Fast Break into a Medieval Madness. Well i think the time is right for me to give this a go. I have secured a playfield, lined up a NBA FB to be confirmed in a few weeks and starting to accumulate some parts.
I realise this may be an extremely drawn out and sometimes frustrating exercise. I'm really doing it for the challenge, but also to try and save a few $$$ in getting a MM - time will tell whether i achieve it cheaper or not.
So in order to start my quest, if anyone has any MM parts they are not using (good condition 2nd hand is fine), please let me know and see if we can work out a price.
I will definitely document the progress, but don't expect miracles in a short period of time.
Thanks
Rob
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huge task, I am sure you can do it, though not sure on the price - did you see the the thread I started ages ago hear about the pinsider doing it from scratch using a NBA fast break
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9738.0
and then there was this guy that finished off 2 new games from scratch (totally)
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/two-new-medieval-madness-games-hand-built-in-minnesota
what is the NBA playfield like?
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Yep, have had a look at that thread. Haven't got NBA yet, prob wont until Mid Janurary at this stage i would say
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Yep, have had a look at that thread. Haven't got NBA yet, prob wont until Mid Janurary at this stage i would say
is it Luke's by any chance?
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Nah prob coming from Melbourne
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have you thought about a BOP DMD kit build, machine build with a colour dmd as a unique build - that is something I would like to do just for the uniqueness but the timing is not right.
http://www.dutchpinball.com/order
the MM one will be huge and with them being remade you might not get your value out of it.
if you still launch into it, enjoy and will watch the build with interest.
I did post in the Restoration section a site for repro metal components the other day.
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Nice one Rob should be a Rewarding project! ^^^
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OK, this is real, and it is happening. I think its going to be quite the challenge without another MM to copy off, but thats half the fun.
I have to thank Wally from pinside, as he has provided me with a few documents that help out a lot, as well as spending an hour or so chatting with him on skype for other tips and inspiration.
There are a few parts that are a bit difficult to get, but i'm chasing a few avenues for them.
So, i've got the MM playfield, NBA FB should turn up in the next day or so, i've got around $2000 worth of parts from two Aussie suppliers - both who have been fantastic and very helpful via email and phone. I also bought a lot of metal parts from mantis amusements in the US, and am putting in an order for a lot of general parts/motors/brackets etc from another store in the US right now.
I started tackling a few of the assemblies - a couple of divertors, the trolls, and ball gate actuators. I didn't complete the trolls as i will prob put LEDs in the eyes, so just quickly put together to ensure i had all the parts. Its amazing how many bits are in these,and you think you will have plenty of spare screws, nuts and washers etc - but i'm stocking up on plenty more of them as i'm running through plenty of them. Its not a hard process, just follow the diagrams in the manual, and hope that you ordered the correct parts!
As we unwrapped the parts to date, the young bloke was pretty excited about the dragon and trolls!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5113_zps65518fa3.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5113_zps65518fa3.jpg.html)
Assembling ball gate actuator
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5114_zpsd6de2ee7.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5114_zpsd6de2ee7.jpg.html)
Troll assemblies partially completed
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5115_zps7c333078.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5115_zps7c333078.jpg.html)
Not sure what i will move to next, probably get the NBA FB and play it for a while, then start pulling it to bits, and maybe start on the wiring harness.
Advice welcomed, or any of the castle bases that are quite tricky to get at the moment!
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Omg big job good luck ^^^
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these will be selling my AC/DC beam covers and noticed they have MM gear - maybe check just there is something you need.
http://thepinwitch.com/gx2/advanced_search_result.php/XTCsid/e3c495176dbc226dec91785688fc4206/keywords/medieval/page/1
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yes, if u had a another MM right next to your new build, it would be so much easier.
You need to put the word out for someone to lend u a machine for 3 or 4 months, for videos n photos n comparisons.
Even if someone had a MM project machine they hadn't started on yet, that would be a massive help.
But if anyone on here can pull this off, it will be you Rob for sure. Cant wait to see the progresss. ^^^
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Got the NBA FB donor machine. I always thought i would play it a bit to see how it was, anyway, after 5 minutes of playing i was too keen to get into starting the conversion..
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5159_zps4d626437.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5159_zps4d626437.jpg.html)
The NBA is largely in good condition, trough opto boards and 7 opto board was missing, but playfield, ramps and most plastics are in very good condition - if anyone needs any parts, let me know!
The cabinet is pretty solid, will need a few dings and scratches repaired before putting MM decals on, but that is a long way off
Started off by removing the playfield from the machine to start stripping
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/54430e30-1925-4ea9-b9bf-e2b2679233a7_zps9a0b978b.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/54430e30-1925-4ea9-b9bf-e2b2679233a7_zps9a0b978b.jpg.html)
I started on the underside, and removed each of the wiring harnesses
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5161_zps77202f78.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5161_zps77202f78.jpg.html)
Started with the coil and flasher harness, and i labelled each plug (or cut wire pair) with a number, this number was then recorded against the NBAFB coil table, so that when i put the harness in MM, i know where that set of wires should go.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5163_zpsa42af5a2.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5163_zpsa42af5a2.jpg.html)
Same then with switch and light looms - switches were labelled where they attach to the playfield
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5162_zps6d02142b.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5162_zps6d02142b.jpg.html)
The GI and controlled harnesses were all twisted together, so will be a bit of fun getting them apart.
Once all the components off the bottom were removed, all the top side was pulled off. Its amazing how much quicker it is stripping a playfield when you dont take any pictures of where things go!
Parts were then organised into stuff that i would reuse or not. Things like pop bumpers, flipper mechanisms, playfield brackets etc will be totally stripped and cleaned before being reused
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5168_zpsed8fd7b1.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5168_zpsed8fd7b1.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5166_zps1a4ece9c.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5166_zps1a4ece9c.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5167_zps74f29434.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5167_zps74f29434.jpg.html)
Playfield all stripped now
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5164_zpse7319f12.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5164_zpse7319f12.jpg.html)
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Looks to be one interesting project!
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awesome work mate ^^^, wish we could sticky a thread as this would be one of them
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Wow- huge undertaking.. hope you don't end up banging your head against the wall too many times along the way.
Pool tables.... bloody handy things aren't they?
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Yep, the old pool table is a great resource!
Once the playfield was stripped, i had plenty of hardware bits to start on the new playfield. Also had a massive tangle of wiring from the harnesses. I separated them out into the 4 harnesses, and washed them in the laundry tub with degreaser and nifti. They weren't filthy, but did have a bit of black gunge that was good to get rid of. After washing, i rinsed lots of times, then left outside in the sun to dry properly. I then stored them away as these will probably be a later job at this stage.
So i had all the T nuts from NBA, and installed them on the MM playfield - the ones on the top side of the playfield were tapped with the hammer to start, then finished using a socket just a bit smaller than the T nut as a drift.
I then installed the timber side rail - cut the NBA one a bit shorter to the correct length, then i put the hinges on underneath the playfield and installed in NBA cabinet. Note that i have also installed the MM roms, so i guess i officially have an NBA Madness now???
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5205_zps7e224d67.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5205_zps7e224d67.jpg.html)
I have also started making the backboard. Used 12mm MDF, and got dimensions off Wally who had previously done a conversion - then used the backboard decal to locate the appropriate holes
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5204_zps08fa1564.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5204_zps08fa1564.jpg.html)
I've installed the Mantis protectors - this Merlin one is a real pain to install, happy of anyone has any tips? Its sitting a few mm proud of the playfield, and needed to be bent to install, i'm assuming installing from underneath is the best - looks like i will have to bend the front lip down, but haven't worked out the safest way to do that installed without potentially damaging the playfield
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5208_zps6ecf4783.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5208_zps6ecf4783.jpg.html)
Installed the other two Mantis protectors as below - the right larger one was too wide to fit the hole (being a repro playfield) and needed to be bent a fair bit to fit, so it still needs some panel beating to make one side fit a bit more snug - although this will be hidden once the castle is installed.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5209_zpscc189a65.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5209_zpscc189a65.jpg.html)
One thing worth noting now while i remember, is that just going through the process of ordering parts is massive. I have been through the manual 4 or 5 times now and still realising i have missed parts - many that i thought i would be able to grab off NBA, or might have lying around as spares. The manual does not even have many parts listed. For example, the scoop below is listed nowhere in the game manual!!!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/22_000922_81_zps56a4d331.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/22_000922_81_zps56a4d331.jpg.html)
And all the tiny nuts, bearings, rods, gears, coil brackets, springs etc that go in each of the various assemblies, all add up in cost, and are a pain to order. Since i do not have the luxury of looking at an existing machine, it adds another challenge to all of this. Reference photos from the net, and that others have given me are a great resource to help out. Of course there are still a few parts that are currently not available, so will be making a few of these up. I should mention at this point that both Wayne and MarkC from Melbourne have been very helpful in purchasing stuff, as well as Tony from pinball shed with a few spares.
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nice work Rob
maybe get the mods to move the thread to either the custom section or restoration section so it can found easily later on
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Is this an Illinois Pinball repro playfield?
If so you may want to have a look at this video by High End Pins about the various fit corrections needed on these:
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Is this an Illinois Pinball repro playfield?
If so you may want to have a look at this video by High End Pins about the various fit corrections needed on these:
Some seriously good info in that clip.
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Brilliant info thanks solar value...although i'm not that keen to hack into a cleared pf, but looks like i will have to!
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So when i started looking at a few photos on the net, i realised the black side timber on top of the right side of the playfield had some steps cut out to accommodate the large ball guide. If i had a MM here to compare it would be easy, but its all part of the fun trying to work this all out. Looking at a few photos from different angles, i estimate where the steps should be cut out, and took the rail over the the neighbour who has a router mounted on the bench. Cut the step out, and painted black, and everything now installed looks pretty right.
Cutting with the router
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/2014-02-15161753_zps0669eb9b.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/2014-02-15161753_zps0669eb9b.jpg.html)
I then started making some of the hex posts, i had some measurements from a photo on the net, but looking at the parts manual, i think the lengths listed are more accurate in the manuak (also according to a few other people i emailed). Let me just comment that imperial system is soooo painful. The lengths in the parts manual are listed as decimal imperial....don't know why the yanks cant figure that metric is so much easier!!! Cut the posts to the correct lenght, then centre punched them, drilled out and tapped the hole to 8-32 size
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/2014-03-01162418_zps2465c822.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/2014-03-01162418_zps2465c822.jpg.html)
Someone had sent me a link of high end pins youtube video stating how reproduction playfields need to have some modifications. One such was the photo below - i cut a thin slot so the protector can line up correctly with the hole
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5210_zps5fb77bc1.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5210_zps5fb77bc1.jpg.html)
The next nerve racking cuts were made where the gate assembly goes - the slots need to be widened to the right as marked below
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5211_zps9e4d7a9c.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5211_zps9e4d7a9c.jpg.html)
Used the dremel to cut a bit wider
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5212_zpsfc6f54d3.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5212_zpsfc6f54d3.jpg.html)
One other issue i have just come across is the mantis merlin hole protector actually interferes with the popper that pops the ball out of the merlin hole - happy if anyone has any suggestions to overcome this one?
Then i got all the ball guides. These were laser cut and bent up by a top bloke with a few more metal skills than myself
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5214_zpsecb17718.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5214_zpsecb17718.jpg.html)
Start to install the ball guides
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5215_zps0857be8c.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5215_zps0857be8c.jpg.html)
Started to install some of the posts, and some of the holes in the playfield were only marked, not drilled. Again, a few nerves and make very sure the drill doesn't slip when doing this stuff!!!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5276_zps582fd0db.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5276_zps582fd0db.jpg.html)
Again - i don't have anything to copy off, so just going off photos of where things go, but things are starting to come together a bit now
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5287_zpscdc19136.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5287_zpscdc19136.jpg.html)
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OK, just to prove this is still ticking along.... I really haven't done anything for a few months, been too busy with other projects and family, but got a bit inspired yesterday to give it a bit more attention.
Stripped pop bumper bodies from NBA FB, cleaned, and put pretty much all new components in them
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5843_zps9b6c91a0.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5843_zps9b6c91a0.jpg.html)
When i went to install them, the holes in the playfield were a tiny bit too small to fit the pop bases, so after a bit of filing the edges of the hole, they all fitted
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5845_zpsea822a18.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5845_zpsea822a18.jpg.html)
Installed the mechanisms
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5847_zps15882dd0.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5847_zps15882dd0.jpg.html)
I've also installed the two ball gates, divertor and a few more posts, slingshot assemblies and the like.
Its amazing how you think you have everything ordered/planned but still come across heaps of small things I missed. When trying to build the catapult assembly, i realised i haven't got the pin that connects the linkages together - things like that really slow everything up. Also can't find the 10 opto board i put aside somewhere 'safe' for this project!!!
Hope to get a bit more done this week after work
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I hate that when the clear makes the holes too small. I used Dowell and sand paper to make the bumper holes bigger. By doing this I now know how to make fire in the wilderness %.%
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Very nice
Good luck
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Good to see you are still ticking along with this project Rob . Quite amazing to think you are doing this without an MM to copy from ^^^
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This would be so much easier if I had a mm to copy! Things like hex post lengths that are wrong in the manual as well as whole assemblies that are missing from the manual like the damsel scoop can be tricky to work out from pictures. Also working out which order to install and wire things would be a lot easier. Not to mention just copying a wiring harness rather than working out everything from the switch and lamp matrixs.
Its all part of the challenge though.
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Beyond my scope of expertise and more importantly, patience. I'd be killing people by now with all the frustration you're going through
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A few more hours spent over the last couple of evenings. Started pulling the old bayonet light holders off the NBA GI harness, then linking them up and installing on the MM playfield. A reasonably slow but easy job. The GI by the manual states it is top, middle and lower playfield - so i just organised them into groupings split roughly into thirds of the playfield, with almost equal numbers of bulbs in each string.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5862_zps2a680d5e.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5862_zps2a680d5e.jpg.html)
All done, and i thought it was OK until i starting thinking that the new playfield didn't have any holes drilled for the flipper shafts....until i realised in my haste to install the light holders, i had put one in each of the two flipper holes! Left side removed, right side in the pic below needs to be removed.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5863_zps35cec194.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5863_zps35cec194.jpg.html)
Pulled the old flipper plates and mechanisms apart, someone had got pretty keen wrapping some extra length of spring here
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5864_zps41b1f95b.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5864_zps41b1f95b.jpg.html)
New flipper bushing, coil stop, sleeve, plunger and link, and printed a new wrapper as well
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5866_zpse9c1c2df.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5866_zpse9c1c2df.jpg.html)
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Bewdiful ! - (said with my best Con the Fruiterer accent).
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Made up the wire ball guides, these were pretty easy to bend by hand in the vice - although the radius is a little larger than factory. The NBA FB had heaps of these, so just cut and bent them.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/2014-07-31073834_zps616eb95a.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/2014-07-31073834_zps616eb95a.jpg.html)
One of the challenges was the shafts for the drawbridge assembly are not available. So i bought some 4mm stainless rod, and made up a poor man's lathe with a drill press and dremel to cut the slots for the e-clips
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5867_zpsda575df9.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5867_zpsda575df9.jpg.html)
I was pretty happy with the outcome, almost looks factory!!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5869_zpsb208df70.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5869_zpsb208df70.jpg.html)
All this stuff is tricky as the manual is next to useless with no measurements and diagrams very messy. So most of this was made from pictures on the net and from other people. Once the two shafts were made, it was a matter of installing the gears, then cutting some old post spacers up to align the last gear cluster
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/IMG_5870_zpsd8ba1e73.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/IMG_5870_zpsd8ba1e73.jpg.html)
Hooked up the motor, and it all works perfectly!! I made a short clip showing the process
Follow this link http://youtu.be/jNroJDgXNNo (http://youtu.be/jNroJDgXNNo)
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Great job. Your video just stopped shy of your little one sticking her fingers in the cogs and hope your assistant didn't hit the battery again !)#. I'm guessing no harm done.
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Great job. Your video just stopped shy of your little one sticking her fingers in the cogs and hope your assistant didn't hit the battery again !)#. I'm guessing no harm done.
+1 .. hoping no fingers got chewed ! .
Awesome job on that drawbridge Rob ^^^
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Ha ha. Yes there was a hasty stop of the camera when she launched her hand in there. All good though with no injuries.
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Have achieved a bit over the last week or so. Had another forum member over last weekend @pocketmoney who is pretty cluey in this sort of stuff, so he gave me a few more tips. One issue that was causing drama was the armature for the Merlin kickout hole rubbing on the Mantis protector, so we raided the auto ball launch from a Dr Who project in the shed and used it - these are much better as they have a narrower diameter shaft at the top, so the few mm less was all it needed for clearance. I also trimmed the Mantis protector down a bit on the top edge with a dremel as it was sitting a bit proud of the playfield.
I drilled out and tapped the last of the hex posts - a few that have male threads on both ends were made by cutting to length, then drilling and tapping the end without a thread, then using an old post thread to put in the hole that was just tapped. Loctite this in, and cut off and make sure the thread is still good.
I then started wiring. A lot of people say the wiring harness is a nightmare, but since i've started it, really its fairly straight forward (now this will come back to haunt me!). The GI for the playfield uses three zones (from the manual) top, middle and lower, so i just grouped equal numbers of GI holders and strung them together - being AC, you don't need to worry about polarity or diodes, so its pretty quick. The NBA FB harness had plenty of GI wire in it, and i ended up with some left over, plus a heap of Green and Green/White as MM doesn't use that string on the playfield.
Then i started wiring the lamp matrix - this is a little more complex but still not too bad, as long as you have good sidecutters, wire strippers, soldering iron, heatshrink, 0.156 crimpers and patience!! I started by doing the lamp colunns (yellow). First thing is get the manual out and look where each of the lamps are in that column, and daisy chain them together
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5873_zpsdee05630.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5873_zpsdee05630.jpg.html)
I am not really following the original wiring path, just where i reckon it makes sense and is best use of wire - i've done all 8 columns and 4 rows, and not run short yet. Here is a pic of the length of wire in one of the lamp rows (red), and that is still connected to the boards and looped up under the playfield
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5874_zps79437304.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5874_zps79437304.jpg.html)
You can't really test until you've done all the columns, then i test each row as i go. Had an issue in the first row, where two lamps were going when there should have only been one. Triple checked all my wiring and connections, and couldn't work it out until i checked the board - this was a new boards where a diode had been installed backwards from the factory (d2)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5875_zps6f78706f.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5875_zps6f78706f.jpg.html)
So its all looking like a bit of a rats nest now, but easiest is to attack it one bit at a time, with all the wires you don't need hanging out of the machine out of the road
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5872_zpsd4616bcd.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5872_zpsd4616bcd.jpg.html)
One thing you need to be careful of is working out where the wire goes on the boards - having a machine to copy off here would be easy and you wouldn't have to think, but as long as you check each time for diode orientation and lamp position, it should be right. Also, with the single bayonet lamp holders in the matrix, you need to ensure that they have a diode and it is oriented correctly.
I'm actually finding this part quite enjoyable and relaxing, and initially thought it might be one of the worst parts of the conversion.
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This project is still progressing, haven't spent a lot of time on it lately as flat out with work, but am enjoying it when i get to do some.
I fitted the drawbridge out with all the switches and optos etc, so it is fully functioning now (just need to wire switch matrix). It was a bit of fun getting the blade switches adjusted at the correct angle (and length of blade), as well as mounting them the right spacing away from the mounting plate - if they are too close, the arm will not actuate the switches. I couldn't get the right length screws, normal ones are too short - so the next best was to get ones that are 40mm long, and cut them down - being careful not to destroy the thread at the cut. I also had to trim down the castle entrance protectors as the long one in front of the drawbridge didn't allow it to open fully - cut a slot around the hinge area, and all good.
Close up of the switches mounted and ready to wire
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5974_zps60a130aa.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5974_zps60a130aa.jpg.html)
I am always finding parts that i need to order along the way - things like this bracket which goes on the right loop.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5973_zps38f18c8b.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5973_zps38f18c8b.jpg.html)
Am also finding its not as easy as just getting the bracket - of course the switches i have don't quite have a long enough blade, then you need to make sure you have the insulating paper and screws - then of course i don't have the little rectangle threaded plate that the screws go into! All part of the fun!
So after a bit of mucking around with hardware, i got keen and mounted the castle bits on to make it look a bit more complete that it was. As previously mentioned, all the GI is wired up, and i am very happy that the lamp matrix worked perfectly the first time i tested it! So some pics with the castle and drawbridge and lamp matrix and GI!!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5970_zpsbbf6276c.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5970_zpsbbf6276c.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5972_zpsa4a291b1.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5972_zpsa4a291b1.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_5971_zpscb4a28ee.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_5971_zpscb4a28ee.jpg.html)
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That is dang fine craftsmanship Rob. Did you run with a bill of mats. or is it a case of too many variables and you manufacture/order as needed?
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That is dang fine craftsmanship Rob. Did you run with a bill of mats. or is it a case of too many variables and you manufacture/order as needed?
Thanks mate. I did a couple of big orders initially to get the ball rolling, but the manual is next to useless, so much of it has to be determined on the run and from pictures others have sent me. Most other people that have done this conversion are not stupid enough to do it without another machine to copy off, so they can pull mechanisms to pieces and look at all the parts required.
That said - i think it adds to the personal satisfaction i will have once completed that i've done it the hard way. Ohhh, and i guess if i ever need to repair a MM i should know it inside out!
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Looking great all lit up, well done!
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Rob, u are one talented man ! Your workmanship and abilities never cease to amaze.
It seems that there is absolutely nothing you can't do when it comes to a pinball machine. Amazing talents I wish I had the patience for.
A quick question. What do u think this whole project is going to owe you by the time you are finished.??
Are u using LEDs or std can descent bulbs under the playfield and general illumination ?
Also, have you done the MM cabinet decals yet ? I didn't look at the pictures closely enough and wondered about the translite etc etc. ?
Are there any parts u haven't been able to find and purchase you are worried about or is all good ?
Last question, what's a rough estimate of when u think u might be finished by ?
I am assuming that this project will come well under $$ what the MM remake out of Stern is going to cost ?
Anyway, amazing work as usual and I also noticed u have some very nice titles in your photos. ^^^
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I really appreciate the detail and research you have followed during this project. I have seen one of these in my workshop (NBA), and I turned the other one away (Apparently Congo). They were so poorly done and "slapped together" that there was no way I could troubleshoot via factory documentation. The dealer conversions are nowhere near your standard - Well done so far !
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Rob, u are one talented man ! Your workmanship and abilities never cease to amaze.
It seems that there is absolutely nothing you can't do when it comes to a pinball machine. Amazing talents I wish I had the patience for.
A quick question. What do u think this whole project is going to owe you by the time you are finished.??
Are u using LEDs or std can descent bulbs under the playfield and general illumination ?
Also, have you done the MM cabinet decals yet ? I didn't look at the pictures closely enough and wondered about the translite etc etc. ?
Are there any parts u haven't been able to find and purchase you are worried about or is all good ?
Last question, what's a rough estimate of when u think u might be finished by ?
I am assuming that this project will come well under $$ what the MM remake out of Stern is going to cost ?
Anyway, amazing work as usual and I also noticed u have some very nice titles in your photos. ^^^
Thanks Brett - dunno about the first comments on talent- i just find it good fun, i reckon a lot of people on AP could achieve this with a bit of patience!
In terms of cost - not 100%, but would be surprised if i got out of it for less than $8500 - that could be plus or minus $2k for others depending on how/when they sourced parts and if they chose to make some things themselves. Ohhh, and the countless hours that have gone into it so far!!
All LEDs for me
Will do the cab last - i don't want to mark a nice new cab when i am working on it so much. Prob would be easier in the rotisserie, but is nice to be able to test in the machine as i go along
Got decals, translite etc - the one thing i haven't got are the wireforms - if anyone has a set, let me know (even if someone had spares i could use as a template to build?). I know some people are selling them, but price is pretty high and apparently quality is average. If need be, i will try and make them. A mate of mine just completed a conversion (using a gutted WCS cab) and he made the wireforms and did a fantastic job.
In terms of time - not setting a goal - i'm enjoying the journey, so really don't care if it is still going in 12 or 18 months.
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Do you 3D scan any of the parts/components you manufacture or tech draw before you make them?
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Nah mate - its nothing that complex. I buy the parts i can (or that are affordable), and see what i can do for the rest. Most of it is nothing overly complicated, just need the time to do it.
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Congrats on getting this far Rob .. outstanding effort ^^^
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Great read, dedication to get it conversion completed, Well done ^^^
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Yep. Great read and great answers all round.
Going to be a sensational pin when finished. Highly prized and
will be like brand spanking new. That's a definate keeper.
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Well after a fair break from this project, I have decided to get into it again.
Purchased a new set of gold plated wireforms from MrPinball - they look fantastic
I have now started wiring the switch matrix. Again - it looks and seems a little overwhelming at first with a huge tangle of wires from the NBAFB wiring harness, however is not too bad - i have just been wiring a row or column or two when i find a spare few minutes of an evening.
The main thing is to refer to the switch matrix in the manual, and start on one row or column and progress through it and make sure all switches are wiring correctly, making sure diode orientation is right.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7622_zpsjdsf280i.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7622_zpsjdsf280i.jpg.html)
Opto switches need to go the ther opto board first, so there is another page in the manual that shows this - for example - wiring for switch 31 (trough eject opto) is a white/brown wire, so you can see below i need to go to plug J3 on the opto controller board, and pin 12 (J3-12). After that, the individual wires for the opto come from other plugs on that board - i am leaving those ones until last.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7619_zpsgbn6v4pz.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7619_zpsgbn6v4pz.jpg.html)
Another challenge has been since i ordered parts in many stages, there are always things i forgot or missed out. For example - went to wire the catapult switch, so built the mechanism, and then realised i don't have a switch - hopefully i can hunt around, otherwise will have to order one
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7621_zpsq3k7jy50.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7621_zpsq3k7jy50.jpg.html)
Another fun part is working out where switch wires from ramps might go - many others who have done this conversion have copied an existing machine, unfortunately i don't have that luxury, so i out the ramps on, and guess where a logical spot for the switch wires to drop through the playfield might be.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7618_zpsl3hviur9.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7618_zpsl3hviur9.jpg.html)
I am not intending for my wiring harness to be in the same position as the original - i am just running it where i see fit and what i consider to be logical....hopefully i don't come unstuck!
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I am not intending for my wiring harness to be in the same position as the original - i am just running it where i see fit and what i consider to be logical....hopefully i don't come unstuck!
It will probably be better than the original, some of the wire routing on these machines doesn't seem to make a lot of sense
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Yep I second that. Late Bally/wms wiring harnesses are illogical and messy. Ever seen a Gottlieb system 3 wiring loom? Now that is neat and tidy.
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Excellent,
looking forward to the next update,
Red
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Well, had 2 big days spent on this project, with some big progress. First a huge thanks to a couple of mates who helped out as well. Was a heap of fun mucking about with wiring harnesses and yarning and having a couple of games as well on other machines.
Hooked in and finished the switch matrix, with no errors on testing! Getting the optos sorted took a bit of time, but was fun.
Then got into wiring the coil harness. I put every coil with a plugged connection, rather than directly soldering to the lugs. Took a lot longer, but makes it a lot easier if assemblies are removed (hopefully there is no need to!). I had to run one extra coil signal wire, as the NBA FB did not use that wire colour due to less coils being used in it. Only one minor error in that i got the hold and power lugs mixed up on the diverter - picked this up testing when it pulled it in a lot harder in the 'hold' test than 'power' test. Switched those lugs around and all good.
Our 5 year old absolutely loved it when i got the trolls working and to pop up out of the playfield... and i must say i was equally excited.
Getting the coils in also meant installing all the assemblies that would have been in the road for the previous looms (switch, lamps and GI), so it is looking a lot more like a pinball machine now.
Pics don't really show a huge amount of difference, although there are certainly a lot more wires connected to stuff since last update.
A solid day or so would get this to playable/test state, but don't have a heap of time at the moment, so will see how i go.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/20160416_134630_zpsn7f2xjxd.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/20160416_134630_zpsn7f2xjxd.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/20160416_182619_zpsigmvyfi6.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/20160416_182619_zpsigmvyfi6.jpg.html)
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Excellent,
looking forward to the video of it being played,
Red
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nice work Rob,
have you got all your parts or still need to chase some down?
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Pretty sure i have everything now. The last big purchase was the wireforms. I was going to make them but ended up buying them.
I guess there will be a few minor things during assembly that i have missed ordering but hopefully not too many!
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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Looks amazing.
Fantastic work Rob.
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Looking good Rob. #*#
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Have spent a few hours in the evenings the past week working on this, not a lot of progress and one hold up.
Thought i would power the drawbridge up with a battery and see how it looked with a few more things installed. As is turned out, i had either the drawbridge a mm to far to the left, or the moat a mm too far to the right (or a combination of both) and the arm of the drawbridge caught on the side of the cutout of the moat, and stripped a gear of the drawbridge. So have to wait a week until that part turns up.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7870_zpspgrqcy9w.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7870_zpspgrqcy9w.jpg.html)
Also, there is a lot of time spent adjusting things when you do not buy each part exactly, but try and customise a few things from existing spares. For example - the blade angel, height and throw of the catapult switch was a real pain to get right - too high, and the switch was constantly on, too low, and it wouldn't actuate, if the angle was wrong, the ball would get stuck, or the catapult would return back on top of the switch! Anyway, its working fine now.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7873_zpsimnvosq9.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7873_zpsimnvosq9.jpg.html)
Ramps are all wired up now, just need to terminate the wires on matching plugs to what i have under the pf
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7874_zpsjjymwo1u.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7874_zpsjjymwo1u.jpg.html)
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Nice seeing more progress.
Thanks for sharing,
Red
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I'm pretty excited right now!!!!, but lets start a few hours back.
Spent time finalising assemblies and wiring plugs etc for a while, then a mate came over and had some ideas on how to fix the stripped gear. Ended up glueing some nylon from a under playfield wire holder onto the stripped area, then filing them back to the correct shape.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7877_zpsst7vt9xm.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7877_zpsst7vt9xm.jpg.html)
Worked an absolute treat, and functioned perfectly.
In the meantime, i hooked up a dodgy launch button....
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7875_zpsp7bwcmvi.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7875_zpsp7bwcmvi.jpg.html)
Started installing the drawbridge, and discovered that the actuator arm was not only rubbing on the moat, but also the side of the playfield - from what i have read elsewhere, most repro playfields require some minor adjustments. Had to put a small sanding drum on the dremel and sand a bit out to the right of the drawbridge so the arm wouldn't rub.
After that, it was time to assemble the ramps and wireforms and rest of the castle. A few minor issues such as some posts needed to be shimmed up, minor bending of wireforms and had one lane guide (right at the back, under the ramps!!) that had to be bent so the ball didn't get stuck.
It all came together pretty quickly then!
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7878_zpsg5do02v1.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7878_zpsg5do02v1.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7883_zpsxksu08sd.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7883_zpsxksu08sd.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7881_zps707qhi3l.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7881_zps707qhi3l.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7882_zpsenvlrhip.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7882_zpsenvlrhip.jpg.html)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz299/rjmilla/MM%20conversion/IMG_7884_zpsmmofx0ks.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/rjmilla/media/MM%20conversion/IMG_7884_zpsmmofx0ks.jpg.html)
So it was with great anticipation that I hit the start button for the first time.......and......the ball rolled into the shooter lane and fell into the bottom of the cabinet!!!! No post installed below the ball trough exit - so put one in, then handed over to our 5 year old for the first go.
Hit the button, and no flippers! Plugged them in, and it was off - see results of the first game here. He is pretty stoked with the whole thing!!
A few switches needed adjusting, and the ball sometimes got stock between the moat and the left popper if rolling slowly. Still have plenty to sort out of the minor issues, but on the whole it is playing at the moment and i am one happy camper!
Still obviously plenty to do, such as wire all flashers, finsh installing plastics, translite, tidy wiring and all the cabinet work.
But at the moment, i'm just going to enjoy playing it for a while before doing anything else.
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Hi Rob,
Very inspirational.
Thanks for sharing,
Thread that show what and how things can be done add so much value IMO.
Red