The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Circuit Board Repair Guides => Topic started by: Caveoftreasures on April 04, 2011, 07:27:47 PM
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I wondered if anyone here has purchased a replacement power supply board for a DATA EAST/SEGA machine before from Marco Spec and if so, how did u find it.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/product.asp?ic=PJ%2D5047%2DHV
I have Andrew (Beaky) conducting surgery/rebuilding the power supply for my DATA EAST/SEGA FRANKENSTEIN pinball machine after it failed to successfully boot the game properly. The power supply has had some dreadful hack jobs done to it in the past (I will get Andy to post a few photos) and I am sure we will fix the current power supply, but i was exploring my options with a full replacement incase the current power supply becomes unreliable after surgery.
I note, that the power supply that fits FRANKENSTEIN is the same power supply that is fitted to the other SEGA machines like BATMAN FOREVER, MAVERICK AND BAYWATCH because they have the largest dot matrix display of all SEGA/DATA EAST and accordingly, the power supply is slightly different to that fitted in other Data East machines which are listed on the Marco Spec power supply website.
If anyone has a Data East/Sega power supply laying around for sale pls PM me or add a post. ^^^
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Brett,
I've got no experience with those aftermarket power supplies...I've always managed to rebuild mine but thankfully were not EuroHacked tm...But I'm sure Beaky will be able fix it.
But - I do however have PinScore displays in all my Sys11 games (3) and they are very high quality and I wouldn't hesitate to put them in more....Even better now we have a local supplier of their products too.
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here are the photos of the hacked power supply.
By the looks of the hacks they were trying to fix a low +5V problem but they have hacked half of the +5V and some other part of the power supply (I haven't looked fully into it yet).
And thank you Marty I will have no problems rebuilding this power supply, also i should be able to remove the hacks, i don't think they are even needed as the tracks that they are duplicating with the wires look fine. After doing the rebuild i will load the power supply up and check how much (if any) voltage drop there is with out the hacks.
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I will add, that this is not the original power supply that came with FRANKENSTEIN. It is the exact same type, but not the original one which came with the machine.
(serial numbers differ). I take pride in making sure any machine i purchase has the same set of original boards, but this is the one exception.
Andy shld fix it no problems, but it pays to have a spare, espescially with so many machines here. I have boxes n boxes of spare stuff for all my different titles, but a power supply for a SEGA wasnt something i have needed til now.
It is great to see that a brand new 2011 model can be purchased for a cheap $129 plus postage from Marco Spec.
Hopefully in time, all replacement boards will come down in price, but $129 seems reasonable considering only second hand units would be around, if any.
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There is one thing I do not like about the replacement power supply pictured above (the blue pcb) is that alot of the components are surface mount. I myself can repair surface mount pcb's but to me in most cases surface mount pcb's mean disposable pcb's. I can understand in the modern world of electronics surface mount is needed for a smaller size and ease of assembly for wave soldering but in this case its not needed, in a modern tv repair workshop that repairs LCD and Plasma tv's in most cases they do not repair a pcb they just unplug it and replace the whole board. 10 years ago when i was designing pcb's even when we only needed a 5 amp bridge rectifier I would use a 35 amp bridge instead. The reason why I did this was because the price difference between a 10 amp and 35 amp bridge was only a few cents but this part of the circuit would run cool and was virtually indestructible. Also the circuit was quite simple (like the power supply in question) and I had enough room on the board. I have seen a pcb designed by another member on this site and he has not used surface mount components (can't remember if it was a replacement cpu or driver board). The reason why i assume is so the board is easily repairable if something does go wrong. I am so disappointed in the designers when i see those replacement pinball driver boards covered in surface mount transistors (or mosfets, I haven't checked the component specs on these boards). If they haven't included some sort or current regulation on those circuits when a coil dies (which will all know happens from time to time) and the surface mount transistor gets so hot that it burns the pad that it is soldered to off the pcb what do you solder the replacement surface mount transistor to? Lets face it it is a lot easier to desolder and replace a solder through component than a surface mount component. I appreciate that a company has invested the time and money to develop a replacement power supply board but maybe the should have conferred with an old school designer.
Once again i apologise for the technical mumbo jumbo but I thought I would post my personal opinion. ^^^
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You make a good point, and there is plenty of room so no need to use SMDs.
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You make a good point, and there is plenty of room so no need to use SMDs.
thanks mate ^^^
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Beaky is 100% correct and I agree fully. That's why all of my replacement pinball PCB's all use through hole parts and much larger solder pads than are really needed. They will (should?) take repeated soldering over the years even from repairers using boofy large plumbers soldering irons....
I can't understand what these other guys are thinking making surface mount boards when it just isn't required??
It probably comes down to cost and also availability of suitable parts??
I have just had a hell of a job sourcing some of the parts needed for my new Bally MPU board - some capacitors I even had to have a special run done at the factory as they simply don't make axial caps in the values and style needed any more - so maybe I have answered the question right there???
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Beaky is 100% correct and I agree fully. That's why all of my replacement pinball PCB's all use through hole parts and much larger solder pads than are really needed. They will (should?) take repeated soldering over the years even from repairers using boofy large plumbers soldering irons....
I can't understand what these other guys are thinking making surface mount boards when it just isn't required??
It probably comes down to cost and also availability of suitable parts??
I have just had a hell of a job sourcing some of the parts needed for my new Bally MPU board - some capacitors I even had to have a special run done at the factory as they simply don't make axial caps in the values and style needed any more - so maybe I have answered the question right there???
your mpu board was the one i was referring to Mike. I give credit where credit is due, you have designed your board for long term use. And they are repairable. I never believed in using small pads on my designs either. I took into account that the boards where going to be assembled by hand and not by machine and by process workers who didn't know how to set their soldering irons to the correct tempreture, plus the large pads also help in heat sinking any heat away from the components. When doing tests on prototype boards (Light chasers and led power supplies) I would do 2 things, 1. short the output and 2. wire a fluro ballast in series with a short to create a back emf surge to emulate large cable runs around metal objects. if any components failed (other than a fuse blowing ) then i would re design the circuit. I designed my boards for commercial use and they never came back for repair. I will admit the company I designed these boards for did sell them at a high price but once the word got around about how well their products worked a lot of companies preferred to spend the extra $$$ for robust electronic control gear over a cheaper product that crapped itself when they wired something incorrectly, had a short or had long cable runs around metal structures. There is a big difference in designing something that works well on a test bench and that works well in real life applications. But now a days with general consumer products it all comes down to price.
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We are going off to Jaycar this morning to buy the replacement bits n pieces to rebuild the Sega Power Supply. ^^^
The replacement stuff shld be stuff all $ cost. Maybe $10 bux or less. I will post a few photos of the bits n pieces we purchase.
I will get Andy to add a few photos of his repairs.
Its only a power supply board, but a post covering the surgery wont hurt. lol Hopefully the Euro- hacks can be minimised or gotten rid of entirely, but the board does look like it has had some very messy repairs. My 10 yr old daughter could solder better than the last hacker !
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We are going off to Jaycar this morning to buy the replacement bits n pieces to rebuild the Sega Power Supply. ^^^
The replacement stuff shld be stuff all $ cost. Maybe $10 bux or less. I will post a few photos of the bits n pieces we purchase.
I will get Andy to add a few photos of his repairs.
Its only a power supply board, but a post covering the surgery wont hurt. lol Hopefully the Euro- hacks can be minimised or gotten rid of entirely, but the board does look like it has had some very messy repairs. My 10 yr old daughter could solder better than the last hacker !
off to jaycar this morning aye? !@# It's 2:30 PM and still no sign of Brett. !@# By the way most of the caps (I still need one more) plus a new bridge rectifier was $17. The reason I am one short is because I wrote the wrong value down on my list and forgot the schematic at home. ^&^
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So far this power supply is a nightmare. The person who hacked this power supply has done 2 things wrong. 1. used a soldering iron that is way to hot for the job. and 2. has used crappy solder. By re soldering a lot of the pads they have done more bad than good. The reason that there are jumper wires all over the place is because the solder through pads have been damaged from over heating. I.E if you put one multi meter probe on a pad on the bottom of the pcb and the other probe on the adjacent pad on the top there is no continuity. It will not be a quick rebuild but it is repairable.
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Sorry Beaky, didnt get over, was chasing a camera job who owes me lots $.
Thanks for buying the parts. Frankenstein will be happy to have his heart (power supply) put back in his chest.lol
I know that if u cant fix it, no-one can. (No pressure-lol) ^^^
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All hacks have been removed and board has been repaired properly. the power supply now has all correct voltages. the main problem was the +5V was fluctuating between 4.2 to 4.5 volts before the rebuild.
I replaced all the electrolytic capacitors, fuse holders & G.I. plug some before and after shots below.
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and the component side.
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Nice board work there
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Well, a big thankyou to my good mate Andrew (Beaky) for the rebuild of this power supply. Frankenstein has his power supply back in his chest and he is now back to normal. ^^^ As u can see from the board work Andy did, he made the power supply safer, more reliable, and got rid of someone elses bad Euro hacks.
ALSO,
I also had a few issues with my TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES and Andy fixed that as well. Whilst we were there, we replaced alot of the playfield light bulbs with 44's instead of the weak 47's that were in there from the previous owner. Just changing all the bulbs out and adding some new n brighter flashers has made the game come alive n much brighter. Some of the General illumination was as weak as piss but now its brighter n a mucher better lit playfield.
It pays to check the voltages coming out of your main power supply, and then rebuilding it if it is weak. The general illumination will pick up dramatically and make the game alot more reliable. It costs aprox $20 or less in parts to overhaul most power supplies and well worth it. ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ If u dont know how to do it, contact Andrew (Beaky) or post the power supply to him like other members have for all board work and get a great job done by someone who knows everything there is to know about everything pinball.
Andy services all my pinbhalls and there isnt a machine or board he cant fix. ^^^
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thanks. Caveoftreasures & goodolddays for the kind words. ^^^
I de-soldered all the large blobs of solder that was on all the plugs and some of the tracks and then re-soldered all of them properly. It makes it so much easier when you have the right tools for the job like an adjustable temperature soldering station and a good quality de-soldering tool, both of which are now over 10 years old. Also for this board i used a good quality solder, 0.7mm, I know it's a bit thin but i have found it gives me better flow control when soldering.
I have found that this type of board has some bad design issues. a lot of the high current tracks are on the top of the pcb and rely on solder throughs to get the power to the plugs and fuse holders which are soldered on the bottom of the board. This wouldn't be a problem if the holes for the plugs where bigger to allow solder to flow through the whole joint and to the top side of the pcb and attach it self between the top track and pins that are being soldered to the board, but the holes are so close to the size of the pins and don't allow this to happen. It's not so bad with the fuse holders as you can solder them from the top and bottom. That is why there were so many hacks on this board, this is a common hack done on these boards because of the design fault.
I way I got around this with the plugs was by first soldering all the pins on the bottom of the board and then gently prising the plastic on the plugs up (with a small flat screw driver) so i had enough room to solder the pins to the tracks on the top of the board (being extra careful not to break the black plastic as it is quite brittle), then pushing the plastic back down again once this was done.
With the G.I relay I had to raise it slightly so i could get the iron tip underneath it and flow some solder onto the pins and pcb. ( I used a long thin iron tip for this)
The end result was good strong solder joints and noticeably brighter G.I. & insert lighting throughout the playfield & back box.
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Thanks for the insight to your work Beaky ^^^