The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => Your Collection => Topic started by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 02, 2021, 02:05:27 PM
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So how many of you that have Fathom on their list have ordered a Haggis? And how many of those are the modernised Mermaid edition?
Not at that price
I cannot believe the prices for new games today
I doubly cannot believe the prices on older game either
I tripply cannot believe I have 3 games over the 10K mark
glad I got in before these silly prices
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$1k cheaper than a Stern premium for the Mermaid edition? Seems reasonable. Specially when i get the return on the one i already have that i paid 8.5k for.
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Mermaid #181
Celts incoming
am I broke? Yes.
How do I pay for it? I don't know ha ha
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So how many of you that have Fathom on their list have ordered a Haggis? And how many of those are the modernised Mermaid edition?
Not at that price
I cannot believe the prices for new games today
I doubly cannot believe the prices on older game either
I tripply cannot believe I have 3 games over the 10K mark
glad I got in before these silly prices
It seems like madness for us old school collectors we had it good until the greed kicked in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So how many of you that have Fathom on their list have ordered a Haggis? And how many of those are the modernised Mermaid edition?
Not at that price
I cannot believe the prices for new games today
I doubly cannot believe the prices on older game either
I tripply cannot believe I have 3 games over the 10K mark
glad I got in before these silly prices
It seems like madness for us old school collectors we had it good until the greed kicked in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I disagree strongly with this. i don't think it's greed at all/ people have to pay what the market wants. Therefore you have to sell at what it costs you to buy the next one.
It's not greed, it's economics.
The new machine prices set the sale prices.
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I must admit I was very happy getting older machines and do them up. Now alas this is difficult due to many varied reasons.
Hey, and who wouldn’t want new and shiny with the latest tech.
I love Haggis and hopefully it works out as I will ALWAYS try support my country.
Homepin doesn’t count as he is Taiwan, soon to be Chinese again and a massive TWAT.
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Yeah and each to their own I’m just sick to death of having to repair over priced dangerous pieces of shit, or repairing games for people with sob stories just to see them listed on eBay for a fortune claiming fully serviced etc
Sadly punkin you missed the good old days you would have loved it so many passionate people helping and sharing and loving everything about pinball your excitement when you joined up felt like then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm still excited collecting and getting to play new machines. I still love the people i meet and the friends i've made playing pinball.
Love to travel to shows and comps and the whole social aspect and hope it comes back soon.
I've seen the prices rise since i got into the hobby, hell, the machine i love more than any other cost me $1800 less than 2 years ago and would sell for twice that at least now.
But when i'm paying $10k for a players condition ToM, then i'd be an idiot to sell anything for less than average value as i'm still buying.
But i see the prices of the machines as relative and i'm grateful i don't collect old Holdens and Fords instead. The rest of the hobby is still the same, people are still the same. There's still people around that want to help others (including myself) and there's still people around who will take what they can get.
Thankfully there are still people who do everything they can for pinball, and there are still people like me who help out a little by opening their doors every week to others so they can enjoy these great machines.
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So how many of you that have Fathom on their list have ordered a Haggis? And how many of those are the modernised Mermaid edition?
Not at that price
I cannot believe the prices for new games today
I doubly cannot believe the prices on older game either
I tripply cannot believe I have 3 games over the 10K mark
glad I got in before these silly prices
I would never overpay for a remake, and those prices are insane. My view on remakes are that if the game was an unfinished product - "Cactus Canyon" or "Kingpin" - then I'm all for it. "Fathom" is one of my all time favorites that took me 10-15 years to source well before it became one of the most sought after machines in this country (along with Embryon, Viking, Medusa etc). No remake will even come close to the classic look and feel (even the SMELL) of the original. I don't understand why manufacturers simply back their own abilities and create an original title / layout to compete with classic machines ? I heard that "Meteor" is being remade - another AWESOME machine. Why ? Are designer's / manufacturer's skills that poor that they rely on original designs ?
If you have the skills and ability to produce a new / unique table, why not produce the next "Meteor" or "Fathom". Stop copying old designs. Lazy, unimaginative money grab. "But it is hard to find an original to own" - Sorry, they are out there if you look for them..
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I must admit I was very happy getting older machines and do them up. Now alas this is difficult due to many varied reasons.
Hey, and who wouldn’t want new and shiny with the latest tech.
I love Haggis and hopefully it works out as I will ALWAYS try support my country.
Homepin doesn’t count as he is Taiwan, soon to be Chinese again and a massive TWAT.
Remember when we were kids and made out own tables using nails, runner bands and pegs as flippers ? These were better quality than homepin machines...
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BTW - I have tracked down a "Gottlieb Rocket Ship". Under that tragic circumstances of my close friend Gavin's passing. Is one of my Grail games. Still looking for a "Super Score".
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If you have the skills and ability to produce a new / unique table, why not produce the next "Meteor" or "Fathom". Stop copying old designs. Lazy, unimaginative money grab. "But it is hard to find an original to own" - Sorry, they are out there if you look for them..
That is what I was hoping for when I heard of the Fathom 2.0, a Fathomeque machine, twisted a bit, a couple of ramps, and a similar art package
they did it with High Speed and The Getaway. Black Knight and Black Knight 2000
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If you can find a fully restored older game , then lucky you.
I couldn't so I am getting a Mermaid edition and signed up for the series. Also a CELTS for true originality.
clever marketing IMO
And why would you pay the same price for an older machine " restored" when you can get a fully wank factored NIB for a tad more with new technology to hopefully last another 40 years.
Haggis is gonna kick some goals unlike some others who tried.
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If you can find a fully restored older game , then lucky you.
I couldn't so I am getting a Mermaid edition and signed up for the series. Also a CELTS for true originality.
clever marketing IMO
And why would you pay the same price for an older machine " restored" when you can get a fully wank factored NIB for a tad more with new technology to hopefully last another 40 years.
Haggis is gonna kick some goals unlike some others who tried.
One was sold on this very forum late last year. I believe an ultra rare "Spectrum" as well. One sold in Queensland last June/July, and at least 2 projects (Junk, but would be restored by a competent person) in the last 12 months. They are around, and since I bought my Fathom 15 years ago, there has been at least a dozen go up for sale since (4 since Covid alone). I've imported 5 Fathoms, and they have all been sold except one..
Very easily to source parts for a mass produced game that is 40 years old. Other than consumables or parts required for a restoration, that original charm and gameplay will be good for another 40 years.
"Restored" VS "Wank NIB" is an interesting comparison. My $ will always be on the original (restored). But I'd rather a game that surpasses Fathom. Obviously the tech is available.
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Surf Champ NIB with wank factor! ;-)
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One was sold on this very forum late last year. I believe an ultra rare "Spectrum" as well. One sold in Queensland last June/July, and at least 2 projects (Junk, but would be restored by a competent person) in the last 12 months. They are around, and since I bought my Fathom 15 years ago, there has been at least a dozen go up for sale since (4 since Covid alone). I've imported 5 Fathoms, and they have all been sold except one..
Very easily to source parts for a mass produced game that is 40 years old. Other than consumables or parts required for a restoration, that original charm and gameplay will be good for another 40 years.
"Restored" VS "Wank NIB" is an interesting comparison. My $ will always be on the original (restored). But I'd rather a game that surpasses Fathom. Obviously the tech is available.
The Fathom and the Spectrum were advertised here as well, but i bought them both through facebook, but the result is the same. I have them both.
That's how come i know that i want a new shiny Fathom (that is an improvement as it will be switchable to new code), because i play the old one a lot and love it. Fathom is why i sold my Centaur and will soon sell my Flash.
Now pick this apart if you will;
The one that you are talking about was advertised at $9,000. The cab has lots of marks and nicks, the backglass is quite nice and the playfield is good for it's age with no real wear as it has a playfield protector fitted. I probably didn't pay nine as i made an offer for both machines together (and later bought his Black Hole too)
So do the sum's in your head what it would cost me to send to any of you guys ($500 for Bill both ways for a start) to gut the machine, restencill the cab, replate all the mechs, new drops ect, send the playfield to Tim and reinstall, new chrome trim, new coindoor etc.
There's only 2.5k difference between the asking price for a nice original unrestored Fathom, and the new Haggis Mermaid (LE) edition (delivered).
If you are not all hooked up on the iffy judgments of the abilities of the builders being able to imagine something new, then the maths is simple. I'd have over $14k in it if i went full top end resto. And the machine will be available again to someone who may actually want to spend that kind of coin to have an original resto.
To me it's a no brainer, i'm not taking a chance on a new machine that i may not like to play or be able to figure out the rules (looking at you GnR), and i'm getting a new machine with improvements and warranty (for what that's worth). The old machine still exists and is available for someone to love as it is and play for the next forty years or restore and there are 4-500 new machines out there in the world for countless others to enjoy.
What's not to like about that?
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Surf Champ NIB with wank factor! ;-)
Blasphemy ! Never again mention "Surf Champ" and "wank factor" in the same sentence !
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One was sold on this very forum late last year. I believe an ultra rare "Spectrum" as well. One sold in Queensland last June/July, and at least 2 projects (Junk, but would be restored by a competent person) in the last 12 months. They are around, and since I bought my Fathom 15 years ago, there has been at least a dozen go up for sale since (4 since Covid alone). I've imported 5 Fathoms, and they have all been sold except one..
Very easily to source parts for a mass produced game that is 40 years old. Other than consumables or parts required for a restoration, that original charm and gameplay will be good for another 40 years.
"Restored" VS "Wank NIB" is an interesting comparison. My $ will always be on the original (restored). But I'd rather a game that surpasses Fathom. Obviously the tech is available.
The Fathom and the Spectrum were advertised here as well, but i bought them both through facebook, but the result is the same. I have them both.
That's how come i know that i want a new shiny Fathom (that is an improvement as it will be switchable to new code), because i play the old one a lot and love it. Fathom is why i sold my Centaur and will soon sell my Flash.
Now pick this apart if you will;
The one that you are talking about was advertised at $9,000. The cab has lots of marks and nicks, the backglass is quite nice and the playfield is good for it's age with no real wear as it has a playfield protector fitted. I probably didn't pay nine as i made an offer for both machines together (and later bought his Black Hole too)
So do the sum's in your head what it would cost me to send to any of you guys ($500 for Bill both ways for a start) to gut the machine, restencill the cab, replate all the mechs, new drops ect, send the playfield to Tim and reinstall, new chrome trim, new coindoor etc.
There's only 2.5k difference between the asking price for a nice original unrestored Fathom, and the new Haggis Mermaid (LE) edition (delivered).
If you are not all hooked up on the iffy judgments of the abilities of the builders being able to imagine something new, then the maths is simple. I'd have over $14k in it if i went full top end resto. And the machine will be available again to someone who may actually want to spend that kind of coin to have an original resto.
To me it's a no brainer, i'm not taking a chance on a new machine that i may not like to play or be able to figure out the rules (looking at you GnR), and i'm getting a new machine with improvements and warranty (for what that's worth). The old machine still exists and is available for someone to love as it is and play for the next forty years or restore and there are 4-500 new machines out there in the world for countless others to enjoy.
What's not to like about that?
I bought my Fathom for AUS$1500 + AUS$700 airfreight from Germany. That was expensive in 2004. I would need to check my records, but the Fathoms I brought in containers from Germany were around the $1000 Euros and I bought a Fathom from the USA for AUS$1750 when the AUS was at parity. Fathoms in collections in Australia were rare, but the only one offered to me was $3500, circa 2003. It was restored. You are referring to post 2016 prices and THEN Covid prices which are in some cases 300% what they were when Fathoms were around. I sold arguably the best restored Fathom in the country in 2012 ish for $7500. It was repainted, cleared playfield - absolutely perfect. That was considered "expensive" back then, and remains in pristine condition.
To your point of restorers working on games in Today's climate - MUCH different to what it was 10-15 years ago, as no-one was restoring games as a business, moreso a hobby (like I was).
I restore machines for a living and I've been around them, literally, all my life. I've NEVER seen the industry this good for sellers. The prices are outright ridiculous across the board. The standard of the workmanship has deteriorated UNLESS you buy from established businesses with competent restorers. So I understand your point, but the idea that reproducing a NEW game at that price point is better than the prices and availability of the original game demonstrates that the person making that claim is either new to the hobby, or has not done any homework.
Now this has gone a fair bit "off topic", but I want to state I wish all the best for anyone producing new games, or buying these new games for their collections. For the record, I would in all cases, choose the original restored, than a copy of the original. That's just the "purist" in me and nothing would change that.
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I bought my Fathom for AUS$1500 + AUS$700 airfreight from Germany. That was expensive in 2004. I would need to check my records, but the Fathoms I brought in containers from Germany were around the $1000 Euros and I bought a Fathom from the USA for AUS$1750 when the AUS was at parity. Fathoms in collections in Australia were rare, but the only one offered to me was $3500, circa 2003. It was restored. You are referring to post 2016 prices and THEN Covid prices which are in some cases 300% what they were when Fathoms were around. I sold arguably the best restored Fathom in the country in 2012 ish for $7500. It was repainted, cleared playfield - absolutely perfect. That was considered "expensive" back then, and remains in pristine condition.
To your point of restorers working on games in Today's climate - MUCH different to what it was 10-15 years ago, as no-one was restoring games as a business, moreso a hobby (like I was).
I restore machines for a living and I've been around them, literally, all my life. I've NEVER seen the industry this good for sellers. The prices are outright ridiculous across the board. The standard of the workmanship has deteriorated UNLESS you buy from established businesses with competent restorers. So I understand your point, but the idea that reproducing a NEW game at that price point is better than the prices and availability of the original game demonstrates that the person making that claim is either new to the hobby, or has not done any homework.
Now this has gone a fair bit "off topic", but I want to state I wish all the best for anyone producing new games, or buying these new games for their collections. For the record, I would in all cases, choose the original restored, than a copy of the original. That's just the "purist" in me and nothing would change that.
Having trouble following all that mate. I'm not referring to post 2016 prices at all that i can see, just current pricing i don't know why you threw the word covid in there in capitals, but the current pricing is what it is....
I think you are getting the 'this is crazy pricing nowadays' argument mixed up with the 'what's this worth in today's market' argument.
I'm only talking about the present as a collector and the present is where i spend most of my time.
In reality a Fathom machine today (the time I and others are dealing with this decision) is as i pointed out above. (9k players Bally. 11.5 new Haggis)
I understand your point, but the idea that reproducing a NEW game at that price point is better than the prices and availability of the original game demonstrates that the person making that claim is either new to the hobby, or has not done any homework.
I'm having real problems trying to understand this sentence, but it seems like you are saying i cannot be right about the simple financial mathematics because i have not been collecting pinball machines for a long time?
I understand and respect that you are a purist and would rather pay much more for a restored game than a brand new reproduction. But i don't understand how i don't get to make a basic financial decision in todays market without being judged as not having a valid opinion seeing as i don't have any purist blinkers on. i just want the best, nicest pinball machine to play and own.
The market is here and now for those of us who have just fell in love with this beautiful gift to our lives and the people who fill this corner of the world. The market is not so much good for sellers, us buyers who don't haver established collections are in the same market mate, so spare a thought for us.
I have to buy new machines at the current prices. In order to buy the new machines i want i have to sell the ones i don't want as much. I have to sell the machines at the prices i have to buy them or I'd be going backward and people would buy them just to flip them. I don't do that.
Like it or not, remember 2013 as much as you want, but a players Tom is 10k and rising and a good Fathom is 9k and rising.
Hope CGC makes Theatre of Magic again, I'm in like Flynn.
Apologies for sidetracking the thread, quite enjoying the robust discussion and would be happy if one of you guys with the extra buttons could split the thread?
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Topic Split - Great suggestion @punkin (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17869) ^^^
Early on in the discussion, Andy @oldskool1969 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1327) mentioned that an original Fathom was hard to track down, so I was referring back to the early days when it was almost impossible, but after waiting and looking high and low - I found one. After that purchase, I think I've bought 5 or 6 Fathoms, and I know of one that might be for sale in QLD in the coming months. In the last 2 years, JUNKERS from dealers have gone for ok pricing. My eyesight is terrible these days, but I can't see where I have "covid" in capitals ? Nor a reference to 2016 ? My point is that you guys looking at buying Fathoms for $3500 missed out a long time ago, BUT, if you look hard, they are around, and not for $9000 in decent condition. $9K is covid price. It is NUTS for any Bally SS from that era with the exception of KISS or Playboy. If I missed a $3500 Fathom, I would know it would be difficult to find a nice $7000 (their true pre covid value). This is the MASSIVE issue with prices at the moment. Sellers can name their price (any game), and people will pay it. So there's an argument of sellers' greed and buyers' impatience. Or you can sit on your hands and wait it out. I can go through my list of "Holy Grails" and not once did I even get close to over paying. Now, almost every game sold in the current market is WAY overpriced.
So in my case, I look at the price of $11.5K for a remake, and I'm left in disbelief. I live in the present too and I can guarantee I will find a VERY nice Fathom between now and next year for $5500 TOPS by calling people and keeping an eye on the marketplace. Bookmark this thread. If it falls though, bad luck, if not, I'll supply photos.
When I'm referring to "homework" - It is the basic background checks and due diligence required before buying something. It is really rare for anyone these days to buy something without looking around. That's the point I'm making. I receive calls almost every day for "hard to find" parts and machines, and I have the same stock standard answer that if you do your homework and be patient, you will find what you are looking for at a fair price. It is like the Woodrails. They rarely change hands or go up for sale. Does not mean they are extinct or cost millions. It means you have to shake the tree, do some "homework" and you will have a Woodrail or two. I know of 1500 woodrails in QLD - just sitting there, rotting away. It is no big secret, many pinheads know the story.
The short version of my point is that I struggle with the idea that pinheads will part with $11.5K on a remake of a game, when the original can be located for less. If you have $11.5 to burn - good luck to you - I hope you LOVE the game. If you want something "modernized" - I have no problem with it. Is it really worth $11.5K - I don't know - I've never built a pinball (Hats off to those that have). I would not part with $11.5 for a remake BECAUSE I know that I can buy and original, in good condition, for less.
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I have one of those junk fathoms as you know Neno (was good to meet you)
payed absolute stupid stupid money for it .
was not happy to pay that but i have a real fathom
spent heaps on a lot of new parts also had to make some bits for target mechs that were unavailable
+ some bling stainless steel bits
I like new machines but ...
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I am man whoring to buy Fathom 2.0 #181 , so she'll be right. I invest in fun ( I hope the game will be ) I don't look at it any other way or I will cry.
I just can't look at the pricing. My collection is refining very nicely and hopefully this price madness will settle. I doubt it some how. I did pre order the series so if anything comes out people like, hit me up as there is no way I can afford future titles as of present. CENTAUR is spoken for if released and so is EBD ( maybe )
Id be really stuffed if they did RADICAL .
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I have one of those junk fathoms as you know Neno (was good to meet you)
payed absolute stupid stupid money for it .
was not happy to pay that but i have a real fathom
spent heaps on a lot of new parts also had to make some bits for target mechs that were unavailable
+ some bling stainless steel bits
I like new machines but ...
So without going into detail, could you tell us how much you currently have in your original and how much you still have to do to bring it up to 'restored/collectors' quality?
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Topic Split - Great suggestion @punkin (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17869) ^^^
Early on in the discussion, Andy @oldskool1969 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1327) mentioned that an original Fathom was hard to track down, so I was referring back to the early days when it was almost impossible, but after waiting and looking high and low - I found one. After that purchase, I think I've bought 5 or 6 Fathoms, and I know of one that might be for sale in QLD in the coming months. In the last 2 years, JUNKERS from dealers have gone for ok pricing. My eyesight is terrible these days, but I can't see where I have "covid" in capitals ? Nor a reference to 2016 ? My point is that you guys looking at buying Fathoms for $3500 missed out a long time ago, BUT, if you look hard, they are around, and not for $9000 in decent condition. $9K is covid price. It is NUTS for any Bally SS from that era with the exception of KISS or Playboy. If I missed a $3500 Fathom, I would know it would be difficult to find a nice $7000 (their true pre covid value). This is the MASSIVE issue with prices at the moment. Sellers can name their price (any game), and people will pay it. So there's an argument of sellers' greed and buyers' impatience. Or you can sit on your hands and wait it out. I can go through my list of "Holy Grails" and not once did I even get close to over paying. Now, almost every game sold in the current market is WAY overpriced.
So in my case, I look at the price of $11.5K for a remake, and I'm left in disbelief. I live in the present too and I can guarantee I will find a VERY nice Fathom between now and next year for $5500 TOPS by calling people and keeping an eye on the marketplace. Bookmark this thread. If it falls though, bad luck, if not, I'll supply photos.
When I'm referring to "homework" - It is the basic background checks and due diligence required before buying something. It is really rare for anyone these days to buy something without looking around. That's the point I'm making. I receive calls almost every day for "hard to find" parts and machines, and I have the same stock standard answer that if you do your homework and be patient, you will find what you are looking for at a fair price. It is like the Woodrails. They rarely change hands or go up for sale. Does not mean they are extinct or cost millions. It means you have to shake the tree, do some "homework" and you will have a Woodrail or two. I know of 1500 woodrails in QLD - just sitting there, rotting away. It is no big secret, many pinheads know the story.
The short version of my point is that I struggle with the idea that pinheads will part with $11.5K on a remake of a game, when the original can be located for less. If you have $11.5 to burn - good luck to you - I hope you LOVE the game. If you want something "modernized" - I have no problem with it. Is it really worth $11.5K - I don't know - I've never built a pinball (Hats off to those that have). I would not part with $11.5 for a remake BECAUSE I know that I can buy and original, in good condition, for less.
Sorry THEN covid was in capitals, not covid 2016 is in the same sentence.
Yes you are in the position to be able to track down these things. I being new to the hobby, as you said, would find it more difficult. I look at the time i have left on this planet and i go and get what i want. I still need to be able to justify it to myself and don't just buy everything that takes my fancy, although it may seem like that to some.
I did spend my time as a younger man working two or three jobs, going without so i could put my family in front and they'd have what they needed and hopefully what they wanted before i worried too much about myself. I was still working overtime and on-call on the Council 5 years ago.
So, i bought the Fathom knowing it was beautiful, but very expensive. If i'd looked for a year or more i may have saved some money.
Just waiting on Bill to pick up my Judge Dredd, i had offers to sell me one between 5k and 9.5k. i settled on one just over 6k which i'm sure will make others say it's way to much and two years ago i could have gotten one for 3.5.
It's not two years ago but.
But back to the remakes.
In my position, unless the arse drops out of the market for a fairly rare and very desirable Bally Fathom, i have a 8-9k deposit already for an 11.5k brand new Haggis Fathom, that need not one cent spent on it to be showroom condition (mine is better than players, but needs a stencil/cab job and chrome) for 2-3k to upgrade.
It's a no brainer.
In your case, you have a Bally Fathom in original condition that you are perfectly capable of restoring yourself if you so wish, that you actually much prefer over a remake for 'purist' reasons, and your 'trade down' cost is over 9K. For you, this is also a no brainer. And if i was invested so lightly on mine i would also make the same decision as you and just keep it.
The newer collectors will be into the remakes, the guys in the States where Fathoms don't change hands as much and are harder to track down are going to be into it too.
In the nd there are only 250 being made, assuming they all sell before the 4 week window closes, so these will be much rarer than the Bally's. If they turn out to be better then watch what the pricing does in the second hand market over the next five years. It won't bother me, it will a relatives job to sell it in any case and hopefully not for a few years yet.
If they turn out to be shit do you want to get a mates discount on a HUO low plays Haggis? You can put a told you so sign in the backglass. %.% @@*
11.5k for a remake too, Stern pops out 4-5 titles a year (or so they plan). There's no love in any of them, look at the cab on Led Zepplin, but a premium so-so rushed machine is 12.5k currently. You have to take a chance on whether you like it, specially if the theme resonates and you want an LE as they sell out in hours and then if the title is really good they double in value.
I have to say, it's not the last pinball machine i'll ever sell if i could only keep one (Orbit 1), but my favourite machine to play out of the 25 i have is my Chicago Gaming Company Attack from MarsLE remake.
I know Dave from Belmont's favourite is his CGC Medieval Madness remake, and he has been collecting for many years too.
In the end, these manufacturers are choosing proven formula's for fun and beauty.
There are still companies designing their own machines too (including Haggis) and modern machines are getting more modern. My Gunners talks to the internet and is capable of doing it's own updates, it can post my scores on worldwide leader boards, it even takes video of me while I'm playing, adds me to the lineup on stage playing the song and puts it on the big screen for spectators to watch.
Best of both worlds for me please.
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Punkin, different stroke for different folks
I like a collection like yours, different manufactures, different eras, game i have played, games i have not played
What leaves me cold is seeing a collection made up of nothing but remakes or LCD era games, to me it just screams "wannabe"
But that does not mean I hate new games. but what I would like to see is a little innovation. Remakes are not bringing anything new to pinball
Take a look at the golden era of Bally 1981. one company produced 8 games in that one year. each game had a unique feature. and 40 years on, these 8 games are still the most sort after in the pinball world
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That's the reason they are remaking them. The entire issue we are talking about is that Haggis has the rights to reproduce 5 Bally machines from 1981! !@#
I agree with what you say about collections. I see US gamerooms that are just 10 new sterns, not anything i'd be interested in collecting.
I'm refining my collection now i'm out of room, keeping the ones i truely love to play and sending all the ones i don't love quite as much to new homes where hopefully they'll be cherished, but at the least that more people will be exposed to them.
Orbit 1 is a classic case. I hear people call it a skidder all the time, but i love it to death.
The Fathom Mermaid edition, is the case in point as well, and as far as bringing anything new to the table, they are adding two LCD screens in the apron, they are adding a new code (as well as the original one) so you have two different games on the same playfield in the same machine.
They are adding glow in the dark reflective cabs. seems to me they are bringing innovation to the table.
They are also doing a standard edition for those who want a faithful (modern) reproduction with out the added extras.
I agree with you though, i would love to see my Attack From Mars have a second or third code and new sets of rules and callouts that i could switch back and forwards into, co-op mode, team challenges etc. would be fantastic and would extend the exploration period for me and make it a fun thing to do with families.
Perhaps CGC will take a leaf out of Haggis's book and start to implement this.
In the end, these boutique pinball companies aren't rich guys trying to capitalize on the re-emerging pinball market. They are pinheads like us, with ideas like us, and they are out there making their ideas come true. If they make a good living out of it, good for them.
I really do understand the people who would rather the original, just hope those people understand me a bit too.
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Could i also say, that i am enjoying the shit out of this respectful discussion, and i hope to learn more about my fellow pinheads and hopefully they may learn something about the newer collectors or those with different collection goals?
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In the end, these boutique pinball companies aren't rich guys trying to capitalize on the re-emerging pinball market. They are pinheads like us, with ideas like us, and they are out there making their ideas come true. If they make a good living out of it, good for them.
A good living?
I'd say a good part of the cost of one of these games is profit
BOM for this era Bally would be about $4000, nothing for existing artwork, $1000 for labor to put it together
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yeah but nah.
If it was, everybody would start and build pinball with this high a profit margin.
Yours is a very simplistic way to look at it.
With your background you should know there is a lot more to business than this.
By the way, what is wrong with profit? did you work for love.
This statement is just silly Peter. I am not having a go at you mate.
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I guess I am just disappointed Haggis did not continue with original themes
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they have another in the pipeline FYI
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I have one of those junk fathoms as you know Neno (was good to meet you)
payed absolute stupid stupid money for it .
was not happy to pay that but i have a real fathom
spent heaps on a lot of new parts also had to make some bits for target mechs that were unavailable
+ some bling stainless steel bits
I like new machines but ...
So without going into detail, could you tell us how much you currently have in your original and how much you still have to do to bring it up to 'restored/collectors' quality?
It has been 4 years since this project started collecting parts ect (i am a parts hoarder lol )
It will be $10k finished' restored/collectors' quality+
I went over the top with approximately 90%new parts on new playfield (payed to have playfield swap)
Cabinet re stenciled and painted
new lamp sockets, flipper mechs ,pop bumper parts , leaf switches + bling stainless parts
That includes all costs including fuel ,shipping etc i have a data base to collect pinball parts and costs
+ spare plastic set and backglass and some spares
Sorry for the detail @punkin
and apologies to Nino as i spelt your name wrong in the first post ...my bad
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Thanks mate. As i thought, even with a reasonable base machine price it is getting up there. With my base machine price and my unwillingness to diy it would be a couple k more for my Bally i think.
That may not stop someone down the road who can do the work themselves and i hope it does eventually find the right person.
If you are going to tie a few hundred thousand dollars up in a new venture, you definitely should have a plan to make a profit, otherwise you won't find investors.
This is a lot different to my business where i started by importing a couple of boxes full of stuff and organically grew. It's one big step and then another.
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Also wanted to say that in the end it's only a couple hundred machines world wide.
I really hope they grab hold of the code for the 2.0 and make it truly modern. Roving shots, timed modes, modern music, build excitement etc
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Nope from me. These games had their time and it's no longer there for me. I've now moved on to modern games for various reasons.
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That's a shame, my collection is slanted heavily to the Bally/Williams era. 8 moderns, 2 remakes including Fathom when it comes, 2 Gottliebs, 2 hankins and 11 Bally/Williams survivors.
IU do like the modern machines a lot, but i like Sorcerer and Orbit 1 a lot too.