The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan on December 30, 2008, 08:50:31 AM
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I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on the demand vs import quantities for Pinball machines of various ages. From where I sit I see container loads of Pinballs being bought into the country by Companies such as Child Amusements, Silverball, Mr Pinball, The Pinball Shed, Bumper Action etc.
However, the majority of these containers seem to be 1990s era pins. There seems to be little coming in from the 'Golden Era' 60s, 70s and 80s!
Now I would have thought that the demographic typical pinball player is in his 30s to 50s and that there would be a lot of demand for these older pins? Simple economics tells me Supply Vs Demand that there would be less older pins currently available?
Anyway please post your thoughts here as I am interested to read your opinions. Maybe if there is enough intrest in this thread the Commercial Guys will give it some further thought? Seems that on Ebay US these old pins go for a steal, so come on guys pick some up and bring em to Aus for fanatics like me. #*#
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On a further note and in support of my comment on less older pins being available it seems that when I look at Ebay Aus, there are a lot more late model pins for sale. You do not see many Ems, and even less woodrail and push ups! Does any one monitor and have any stats on this?
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Well, I'm interested in 80s and 90s primarily - the main reason is that pinball started for me at uni (1986-1989).
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Well, I'm interested in 80s and 90s primarily - the main reason is that pinball started for me at uni (1986-1989).
SHouldn't you have been studying %.%
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Well, I'm interested in 80s and 90s primarily - the main reason is that pinball started for me at uni (1986-1989).
SHouldn't you have been studying %.%
Hey, I passed with some pretty good marks. But there was a lot of free time!!!
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Well, I'm interested in 80s and 90s primarily - the main reason is that pinball started for me at uni (1986-1989).
SHouldn't you have been studying %.%
Hey, I passed with some pretty good marks. But there was a lot of free time!!!
So does that mean you now have the letters DOP after your name? Doctor of Pinball or is it MBA Master Ball Adjuster %.%
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Hey Dean,
I gotta agree with you that we need suppliers to source some of the classics. The 80's and 90's are great but there is something so pure about the EM's
Put me down for a container full of them :lol
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Hey, I passed with some pretty good marks. But there was a lot of free time!!!
So does that mean you now have the letters DOP after your name? Doctor of Pinball or is it MBA Master Ball Adjuster %.%
Neither! But I got pretty reasonable as a player as it was too expensive on a uni student's income otherwise. We definitely played for credits as well as the other players' respect - there was a bunch of us who were addicted. The good thing was that someone else would leave you with credits if they had to go to a lecture or tutorial, so often we played for free.
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Well it also comes down to supply - nearly all of the stashes of 60s and 70s EMs are gone.
Mark C has said he is still on the hunt for these games - oh man I need a fix of some more 1950s and 1960s pins!
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Dean - You have tapped straight into "my dream" of importing older pins and retiring on them - Then I would not have to do "real work" ever again !
Most of the collectors my age want older games, and I cannot keep up with the ever growing list of people that ask me to source a game and restore it for them. Personally, I feel this is a niche market and one of these days - I'd like to take "the plunge" into that area.
I think DMDs will always be the mainstay, but the demand for good conditioned 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s machines are at an "all time high". Proof of this was the Child's Amusements gamble on the initial 60's container and the following 70's and 80's container. They all needed work, but most SHOULD be restored in time. To me - They were mini goldmine and yes - I did "get into" Mark's ear about older machines - and I continue to do so. In fact, as long as the machines are imported into Australia via any means, I'll be VERY happy.
From a Business perspective, a 40 Ft Container costs the same to ship whether it is full of diamonds or feathers. The return on investment is justified on DMDs, but it would be a risk on project machines. That's why project machines, even fully working machines from this era may not be cost effective - especially if you have overheads and you need to spend $$$ getting the machines going..
A container of older PROJECT games would be unlikely - unless a private buyer purchases them.
A container of working older games is more likely
The best scenario is that one of the importers locates older games, and bundles them in with some DMDs in the same consignment.
Great thread BTW... ^^^
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Dean - You have tapped straight into "my dream" of importing older pins and retiring on them - Then I would not have to do "real work" ever again !
Most of the collectors my age want older games, and I cannot keep up with the ever growing list of people that ask me to source a game and restore it for them. Personally, I feel this is a niche market and one of these days - I'd like to take "the plunge" into that area.
I think DMDs will always be the mainstay, but the demand for good conditioned 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s machines are at an "all time high". Proof of this was the Child's Amusements gamble on the initial 60's container and the following 70's and 80's container. They all needed work, but most SHOULD be restored in time. To me - They were mini goldmine and yes - I did "get into" Mark's ear about older machines - and I continue to do so. In fact, as long as the machines are imported into Australia via any means, I'll be VERY happy.
From a Business perspective, a 40 Ft Container costs the same to ship whether it is full of diamonds or feathers. The return on investment is justified on DMDs, but it would be a risk on project machines. That's why project machines, even fully working machines from this era may not be cost effective - especially if you have overheads and you need to spend $$$ getting the machines going..
A container of older PROJECT games would be unlikely - unless a private buyer purchases them.
A container of working older games is more likely
The best scenario is that one of the importers locates older games, and bundles them in with some DMDs in the same consignment.
Great thread BTW... ^^^
I don't think it would be profitable for a importer to bring in a container of 1950's-70 machines
its all great that these games are wanted but are you happy to pay for them?
( because lets face it if the importer is not making a profit (even a small one) then why would they
bring them in?????
following all the forums over the years on what these (older) pins are worth
there's a big difference between what the importer/dealer thinks and what the buyer and again what hobbyist thinks they are worth
everyone cracks a fat over Devils Dare, Medusa, Mars God of War etc.
but what are they worth
how do you want them? working or project
what's the $$$ value between working -as is, shopped and a project machine
most projects that I have seen go for around $400.00 -550.
then there's the "as is Machines" the dealer wants 1000.00 - 1200 (maybe more)
(yet a lot of guys want it for 800.00 because to quote those guys ("its not worth more than $800.")
if shopping a (DMD) machine costs a dealer $500. in time and parts (and most dealers do allow that amount)
how much would it cost a dealer to shop a EM/SS
( and according to you Nino, to do a EM/SS properly around 50-60 hours)
so for Guys Like Dean, Nino, Tony and Gavin
who can all do there own work on these games if a dealer buys a container of "working" games
that still need to be "shopped" and wants 1000-1200.00 "as is" before shopping them
what are they worth?
keep in mind the guys l just mentioned are hobbyists not the run of the mill buyer like myself
so
A.1 x Devils Dare project whats it worth??? $0.00
B. 1 x Devils Dare is complete straight out of the container what's it worth??? $0.00
C. 1 x Devils Dare shopped /fully working what's it worth??? $0.00
all three have a back glass roughly 8/10
body is a 8.5/10
A. has no boards
B. has all boards maybe they work maybe they don't
C. all boards working and tested
so what are they worth to you
and what would/should a dealer expect to price them as, ( only asking for opinions )
I've seen a few HH for sale over the last year
average 2,500 to 3,200 working
I know Nino wouldn't pay that (and I'm guessing you guys (hobbyist) are the same)
because as he says "he can fix them myself" so what's a non working but complete one worth?
sorry for all the questions but you see I can understand the pricing/worth of DMD's
but the value of EM's/SS just eludes me I look at some of these older games and think
"its worth this amount" and it either sells for twice or half of my best guess, so i have no idea
My point I guess is I don't see why a dealer would risk importing a container of older pins
either as mixed or all "working"
**** PLEASE NOTE BUYERS (like myself)
Gavin, Nino,illawarra_steelers and Dean are Hobbyists unlike you and I (we buy the FINISHED machines... Big $$$ difference)
so when the hobbyists say something is worth $xxxx amount to them that's because they source the parts and they put in 50+ hours of UNPAID WORK) so don't go down to a dealer and expect to get a fully working
and fully shopped "Mars God of War" or "Black Knight" for between $400 -1000.00
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Well said Greg - could not agree more.
50's - 80's machines always need some work - and for a dealer - Time is Money. It is worth "stirring the market" with the older games to see if there is interest. There was interest, but most of the interest outside the "hobbyist" are for WORKING machines.
Most of the games I've seen need 50 hours work minimum - and that is a fact - from any dealer that I have bought from over the years - even the machines I "inherited"..
The only way it would ever be cost effective is if the labor is done for free... ie. A hobbyist with contacts to import the games, and someone who simply loves doing the work. At the end of the day - some decent money could be made - but at 50 hours minimum - that's a Pinball a week, so you don't want to be "cluttering up" a dealer's time when they can be working on DMDs..
Slowly, over time, I plan on collecting projects (50's - 80's) and putting them aside to restore in 3 - 5 years time. It will keep me busy in my hobby, and who knows where it could lead one day..
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Awesome write up Greg, great view/opinion..
Interesting choice of titles BTW ! <.> #@#
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Yes Greg,
Extremely well written ^^^
I still want to buy 3 or 4 vintage games, really need a fix.
Come on Mark, finish your holiday and get another container in of 1960s pins!
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If you really want to import some earlier pins, why not do it yourself combined with a bunch of like-minded enthusiasts?
Costs:
flights to and from location to source pins
accommodation while on trip to source pins
cost of packing pins and transporting to shipping port
shipping including cost of container and any import duties
anything else I've missed?
We know you can fit 36 pins in a container maybe plus some parts, so divide above costs by 36, and add to actual cost of pin. Find 35 other people (or less if you want more than one) to give you (most of) the money up-front, fly across to the right location and start loading a container. Hmm, this could be the hard part!! I guess there is a bit to learn about importing and getting hold of a container - but it might be worth it.
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Couldnt agree more - great write up and poses many questions.
How much is a pin worth??
FACT: Most 50's pins dont get floated around the general market, these are sold to those who express interest in them.
BCW had a load of 30's and 40's games in. The asking price on these was ridiculous. Rob had no idea of their worth but wished to squeeze top $$ out of them - $2000 for a flipperless 30's game is way out of the market.
These could ALL have sold at the right price - around 500 - 800 a piece dependant on title and quality.
later models say $1000 a piece. Between Tony and myself, we could have pretty much cleared 75% of the shipment. I KNOW how much these were bought for and where they came from and it wasnt Europe.
Asking someone what they paid for their project 1965 GTB is like getting blood out of a stone, but they are not as cheap as the $400 or so mentioned - fully working...$2000? But once again - dont expect to see it on Ebay, will be snapped up way before then...mates rates?? $1500 - $1800.
I dont mind paying top $$ for a very rare title and thats non working, i just got offered 2.5 times what i paid for a Wms 1951 game and i turned it down - money aint the issue, game and title are.
So what would i be prepared to pay for a DD?
Well, id never buy it working as it would be too dear for me, i also wouldnt buy it with all the boards missing as the price difference between having boards and all missing is not what the boards would cost me - so unworking??
I dunno.... maybe into 3 figures though
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If you really want to import some earlier pins, why not do it yourself combined with a bunch of like-minded enthusiasts?
Costs:
flights to and from location to source pins
accommodation while on trip to source pins
cost of packing pins and transporting to shipping port
shipping including cost of container and any import duties
anything else I've missed?
We know you can fit 36 pins in a container maybe plus some parts, so divide above costs by 36, and add to actual cost of pin. Find 35 other people (or less if you want more than one) to give you (most of) the money up-front, fly across to the right location and start loading a container. Hmm, this could be the hard part!! I guess there is a bit to learn about importing and getting hold of a container - but it might be worth it.
Thats why you need "spotters" overseas - i have 2 in USA
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I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on the demand vs import quantities for Pinball machines of various ages. From where I sit I see container loads of Pinballs being bought into the country by Companies such as Child Amusements, Silverball, Mr Pinball, The Pinball Shed, Bumper Action etc.
However, the majority of these containers seem to be 1990s era pins. There seems to be little coming in from the 'Golden Era' 60s, 70s and 80s!
Now I would have thought that the demographic typical pinball player is in his 30s to 50s and that there would be a lot of demand for these older pins? Simple economics tells me Supply Vs Demand that there would be less older pins currently available?
Anyway please post your thoughts here as I am interested to read your opinions. Maybe if there is enough intrest in this thread the Commercial Guys will give it some further thought? Seems that on Ebay US these old pins go for a steal, so come on guys pick some up and bring em to Aus for fanatics like me. #*#
I'm not a sponsor of this site, so admins feel free to delete any part or entire post as you wish.
We have over 60 project pins that we own and are in storage overseas. Greg makes a very good point about what people want versus what people want to pay. Titles include 2 x Devils Dare, 4 centaurs, 2 pink panthers, viking, 8 ball deluxe,black hole,medusa,xenon, and many more. We are still debating if it is worth bringing these machines in as a whole or in parts. When you add up the time, effort,cost of pin and cost to ship here, is really worth the hassle.
We have access to a stash of working classic pins, ballys, williams, gottliebs that are fully working and we are deciding if this should be the way to go.
Most people want project pins, in working condition,with no missing parts and dont wont to pay more than a couple hundred dollars.
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Well, id never buy it working as it would be too dear for me, i also wouldnt buy it with all the boards missing as the price difference between having boards and all missing is not what the boards would cost me - so unworking??
I dunno.... maybe into 3 figures though
Coudnt agree more, i rarely buy working Pins although I have, I would preffer non working bargins and fix them myself. There are two reasons for this. 1. Save money. 2. I really enjoy fixing them.
I also agree with your comments on buying machines with missing boards. Unless they are super cheap i.e $100-200 forget it, especially if they are an unpopular title, unless you know you have access to spare boards or can buy them cheap. I.E Say for example you pay $500-600 for a machine without boards, you then need CPU, Displays, Power Supplys, Driver Boards this could end up costing another $900-1000 bucks. So you end up paying $1500 for a machine that is maybe worth $1000 -$1500 (depending on title of course it could be more) and you have put in all the hours that Nino stated.
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I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on the demand vs import quantities for Pinball machines of various ages. From where I sit I see container loads of Pinballs being bought into the country by Companies such as Child Amusements, Silverball, Mr Pinball, The Pinball Shed, Bumper Action etc.
However, the majority of these containers seem to be 1990s era pins. There seems to be little coming in from the 'Golden Era' 60s, 70s and 80s!
Now I would have thought that the demographic typical pinball player is in his 30s to 50s and that there would be a lot of demand for these older pins? Simple economics tells me Supply Vs Demand that there would be less older pins currently available?
Anyway please post your thoughts here as I am interested to read your opinions. Maybe if there is enough intrest in this thread the Commercial Guys will give it some further thought? Seems that on Ebay US these old pins go for a steal, so come on guys pick some up and bring em to Aus for fanatics like me. #*#
I'm not a sponsor of this site, so admins feel free to delete any part or entire post as you wish.
We have over 60 project pins that we own and are in storage overseas. Greg makes a very good point about what people want versus what people want to pay. Titles include 2 x Devils Dare, 4 centaurs, 2 pink panthers, viking, 8 ball deluxe,black hole,medusa,xenon, and many more. We are still debating if it is worth bringing these machines in as a whole or in parts. When you add up the time, effort,cost of pin and cost to ship here, is really worth the hassle.
We have access to a stash of working classic pins, ballys, williams, gottliebs that are fully working and we are deciding if this should be the way to go.
Most people want project pins, in working condition,with no missing parts and dont wont to pay more than a couple hundred dollars.
Oh David,
PLEASE tell me you have access to some 50s and 60s projects!
As mentioned in previous posts pins from this era don't really exists anymore as they have been snapped up. The only guy bringing them in from the US is Michael Shalhoub who has the contacts there. He doesn't come cheap - that doesn't reall bother me when I can drive to his place in 30 minutes and load my dual cab up with 3 or 4 games from this era.
Also the guys after these games are the older and seem to be cashed up - one of the joys of being a bit older - so Dave if you have access to these old girls bring 'em in - I will help you sell them. I just helped Mike sell about 20 games from this vintage.
Oh man I really need a classic pinball fix
Europe is the final frontier - have always wondered why somebody hasn't hit Italy as it had the highest pin shipment during the 60s outside the USA?
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Oh John,
I think you'll find that the correct moniker is David or Dave for short.
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Oh John,
I think you'll find that the correct moniker is David or Dave for short.
Do'h fixed....stupid me :D
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Do'h fixed....stupid me :D
That undiscovered short has migrated into your head Tony....
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:lol :lol Oh stop picking on me! :lol :lol
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:)
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Nearly!
They are all aimed at the centre of my head!
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Oh John,
I think you'll find that the correct moniker is David or Dave for short.
Do'h fixed....stupid me :D
Well, you fixed one occurrence, one to go. There is a Silvaball as well who is John, so the confusion was understandable.
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I knew smoking all that weed one day would screw with my head *)*
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Dave ( Siverball dave)
When we spoke, i said bring in those projects mate - believe me.. they WILL sell... especially considering the titles you have listed
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Dave ( Siverball dave)
When we spoke, i said bring in those projects mate - believe me.. they WILL sell... especially considering the titles you have listed
It just depends how much they need to sell them for to make it worthwhile. Obviously $200 or $300 isn't going to be enough, but is $500 or $600 going to be? Or are people prepared to pay $800 - $1000 (or more) for a project pin?
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Title dictates price... these aint $400 projects...but in saying that if thats the asking price, i wont argue
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It all depends on the title....I will be open here...I payed $800 for a Gottlieb Happy Clown 1964 and a Gottlieb World Fair + shipping to Sydney.
Both games need a huge amount of work - do I care - nope - the games are in my gamesroom and would not have had the chance to pick up either title without Mark taking the risk of importing them. As mentioned bring some more in and I will drive down to Melbourne and pick up 3 or 4 titles from this era.
I believe that eBay is NOT the way to sell games of this vintage, as Gav just said there is a market there. It is mostly for the 'older guys' in the hobby. Now I'm 44, not 100% sure how old Gav is but I bet he around the same age give or take 5 years. We don't look to the web, it is word of mouth and emails etc.
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Dave ( Siverball dave)
When we spoke, i said bring in those projects mate - believe me.. they WILL sell... especially considering the titles you have listed
It just depends how much they need to sell them for to make it worthwhile. Obviously $200 or $300 isn't going to be enough, but is $500 or $600 going to be? Or are people prepared to pay $800 - $1000 (or more) for a project pin?
There are so many permutations and combination in deriving a price for a project pinball..
I always look at the game and if the playfield and backglass are in good shape - then it has potential.
Does it have boards and displays
Is it missing "hard to find" parts - like an apron or a specific board like the "strobe" on a Flash Gordon ?
If the game is on my "wants list" then I'll most likely buy it regardless.
Are there repro plastics, playfields, backglasses available (GTB games have so many NOS parts in this area)
Personally - I like to look at whether the game in question will challenge me.. Hopefully, I will learn something from the restoration..At the end of the day - I have enjoyed the restoration, and the game is now in a gamesroom being enjoyed by the new owner, rather than sitting in storage for the next 20 years waiting for a natural disaster to put it out of its misery...
To answer the question - I have paid that amount of $1000 for a project pinball in the past, and if the game is suitable, I will pay it again.
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I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on the demand vs import quantities for Pinball machines of various ages. From where I sit I see container loads of Pinballs being bought into the country by Companies such as Child Amusements, Silverball, Mr Pinball, The Pinball Shed, Bumper Action etc.
However, the majority of these containers seem to be 1990s era pins. There seems to be little coming in from the 'Golden Era' 60s, 70s and 80s!
Now I would have thought that the demographic typical pinball player is in his 30s to 50s and that there would be a lot of demand for these older pins? Simple economics tells me Supply Vs Demand that there would be less older pins currently available?
Anyway please post your thoughts here as I am interested to read your opinions. Maybe if there is enough intrest in this thread the Commercial Guys will give it some further thought? Seems that on Ebay US these old pins go for a steal, so come on guys pick some up and bring em to Aus for fanatics like me. #*#
I'm not a sponsor of this site, so admins feel free to delete any part or entire post as you wish.
We have over 60 project pins that we own and are in storage overseas. Greg makes a very good point about what people want versus what people want to pay. Titles include 2 x Devils Dare, 4 centaurs, 2 pink panthers, viking, 8 ball deluxe,black hole,medusa,xenon, and many more. We are still debating if it is worth bringing these machines in as a whole or in parts. When you add up the time, effort,cost of pin and cost to ship here, is really worth the hassle.
We have access to a stash of working classic pins, ballys, williams, gottliebs that are fully working and we are deciding if this should be the way to go.
Most people want project pins, in working condition,with no missing parts and dont wont to pay more than a couple hundred dollars.
Oh David,
PLEASE tell me you have access to some 50s and 60s projects!
As mentioned in previous posts pins from this era don't really exists anymore as they have been snapped up. The only guy bringing them in from the US is Michael Shalhoub who has the contacts there. He doesn't come cheap - that doesn't reall bother me when I can drive to his place in 30 minutes and load my dual cab up with 3 or 4 games from this era.
Also the guys after these games are the older and seem to be cashed up - one of the joys of being a bit older - so John if you have access to these old girls bring 'em in - I will help you sell them. I just helped Mike sell about 20 games from this vintage.
Oh man I really need a classic pinball fix
Europe is the final frontier - have always wondered why somebody hasn't hit Italy as it had the highest pin shipment during the 60s outside the USA?
Italy's pins are mostly trashed, they were never looked after the same way as they were in other parts of Europe. We have viewed several lots and were very disappointed.
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It all depends on the title....I will be open here...I payed $800 for a Gottlieb Happy Clown 1964 and a Gottlieb World Fair + shipping to Sydney.
Both games need a huge amount of work - do I care - nope - the games are in my gamesroom and would not have had the chance to pick up either title without Mark taking the risk of importing them. As mentioned bring some more in and I will drive down to Melbourne and pick up 3 or 4 titles from this era.
I believe that eBay is NOT the way to sell games of this vintage, as Gav just said there is a market there. It is mostly for the 'older guys' in the hobby. Now I'm 44, not 100% sure how old Gav is but I bet he around the same age give or take 5 years. We don't look to the web, it is word of mouth and emails etc.
\
Mate - $800 for both??......Droooooooooool
bang on too - im 42
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No mate - $800 EACH!
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Awesome write up Greg, great view/opinion..
Interesting choice of titles BTW ! <.> #@#
ha ha..... mate its all you and Nino talk about
that and after seeing them all at Expo and yours and Nino's collections...... I'm starting to take notice of alot of the older games
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No mate - $800 EACH!
Is OK - id say dead on the money - my 65 Bank a ball was $1000.
oooops!!! Ive let it out the bag
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No mate - $800 EACH!
Is OK - id say dead on the money - my 65 Bank a ball was $1000.
oooops!!! Ive let it out the bag
I knew that already! %$%
Got offered that game before you <.>
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Awesome write up Greg, great view/opinion..
Interesting choice of titles BTW ! <.> #@#
ha ha..... mate its all you and Nino talk about
that and after seeing them all at Expo and yours and Nino's collections...... I'm starting to take notice of alot of the older games
That's it - Blame us, we are the bad influence !!
The older games are from a period I grew up in - and DMDs never really appeal to me that much. I am pleased that you have a newfound appreciation for older games. Your "Jet Star" has moved up a couple of places in the queue my friend !
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No mate - $800 EACH!
Is OK - id say dead on the money - my 65 Bank a ball was $1000.
oooops!!! Ive let it out the bag
I knew that already! %$%
Got offered that game before you <.>
Yeh - you and everyone else!!!! !!!
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I'm not a sponsor of this site, so admins feel free to delete any part or entire post as you wish.
We have over 60 project pins that we own and are in storage overseas. Greg makes a very good point about what people want versus what people want to pay. Titles include 2 x Devils Dare, 4 centaurs, 2 pink panthers, viking, 8 ball deluxe,black hole,medusa,xenon, and many more. We are still debating if it is worth bringing these machines in as a whole or in parts. When you add up the time, effort,cost of pin and cost to ship here, is really worth the hassle.
We have access to a stash of working classic pins, ballys, williams, gottliebs that are fully working and we are deciding if this should be the way to go.
Most people want project pins, in working condition,with no missing parts and dont wont to pay more than a couple hundred dollars.
just chewing the fat Dave
but if you cant give a opinion then maybe l shouldn't give a opinion..... but you know me Dave
i'm gunna give it anyway ::)
look don't get me wrong I would love to see MORE older games coming in to Aus
I would just hate to see a importer/dealer do his $$ on a container because that just means
they won't try it again
but I do believe that if older pins are going to grow and make a come back
then it will be driven more by the hobbyist's on forums like this making collectors aware of what goes into getting these oldies going and working correctly as only these guys would be willing to give the hours to get these games up and running as they should be, as l don't think dealers would have the time alloted to do justice to these games, As Dean said if you have to spend money on displays and boards
then that blows the budget if your a dealer and probably for the hobbyist as well.
I've seen first hand what Nino does to fully rebuild a game (that Sinbad is a work of art topside and underneath)
so for the hobbyists..... $%$
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I'm not a sponsor of this site, so admins feel free to delete any part or entire post as you wish.
We have over 60 project pins that we own and are in storage overseas. Greg makes a very good point about what people want versus what people want to pay. Titles include 2 x Devils Dare, 4 centaurs, 2 pink panthers, viking, 8 ball deluxe,black hole,medusa,xenon, and many more. We are still debating if it is worth bringing these machines in as a whole or in parts. When you add up the time, effort,cost of pin and cost to ship here, is really worth the hassle.
We have access to a stash of working classic pins, ballys, williams, gottliebs that are fully working and we are deciding if this should be the way to go.
Most people want project pins, in working condition,with no missing parts and dont wont to pay more than a couple hundred dollars.
just chewing the fat Dave
but if you cant give a opinion then maybe l shouldn't give a opinion..... but you know me Dave
i'm gunna give it anyway ::)
look don't get me wrong I would love to see MORE older games coming in to Aus
I would just hate to see a importer/dealer do his $$ on a container because that just means
they won't try it again
but I do believe that if older pins are going to grow and make a come back
then it will be driven more by the hobbyist's on forums like this making collectors aware of what goes into getting these oldies going and working correctly as only these guys would be willing to give the hours to get these games up and running as they should be, as l don't think dealers would have the time alloted to do justice to these games, As Dean said if you have to spend money on displays and boards
then that blows the budget if your a dealer and probably for the hobbyist as well.
I've seen first hand what Nino does to fully rebuild a game (that Sinbad is a work of art topside and underneath)
so for the hobbyists..... $%$
Thanks for the kind words, Greg..
I think that the only way a container of project pins will ever make it to Australia and be reconditioned or repaired, will be if hobbyists are involved. From a commercial perspective, it just does not make sense.
Having said that, I think it was very "ballsy" for Child's to bring in the projects and I tip my hat to anyone that does it in the future. If I had the "little black book of project pinball hoarders overseas", I'd do it !
^^^
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I agree Project pin prices depend on title and condition.
A project Gottlieb Dragon (SFA) a project Pink Panther, Black Hole, HH ($1000 up depending on condition), seeing either restored to near mint condition PRICELESS :D #.#
I would buy either as I get satisfaction from knowing that I save any pin from possible scrap piles.
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I would luv to see 70's and 80's machines imported. For example can an importer offer a project Meteor for 500, are you making enough to make it worthwhile?
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Probably not, by the sound of it - maybe $800 - $1000??
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I am only after project or as is pins these days as i like to do the work myself,
weather it costs more or not to restore doesnt matter.
if you are bringing in a Bally Strikes and Spares contact me *%*
cheers Ian
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I would luv to see 70's and 80's machines imported. For example can an importer offer a project Meteor for 500, are you making enough to make it worthwhile?
Define "Project"...
Scenario #1
Backglass is peeling, 3 plastics are broken and there is significant wear around the bonus area. MPU is corroded and the displays are present, but all have faults. It is a project machine.
Scenario #2
Mint backglass, all plastics intact and the playfield is filthy, but has no visible wear. All the boards including the displays are missing.It is a project machine.
Scenario #3
Average playfield, backglass and plastics. No legs. Missing front door. All board present, but does not boot. It is a project machine.
Which game is worth $500 - $1000 ?
How badly do you want a Meteor - is it you "Holy Grail" Pinball ?
Each machine must be taken on its own merits. Meteor is a sought after machine and only recently has earned respect amongst collectors. CPR are making plastics, and Gavin (Retropin) is offerring Playfield and backglass restoration services. You can repair (Owen - Pinball-Fixer) or replace the boards in the machine (Altek)..
It is a difficult task to value a project machine..
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Fair enough....and we all have different levels of ability to restore a machine. So a 500 buck meteor project for me would need to be complete, and needing general stuff like pf cleaning, rubbers, coil sleeves etc. I cant touch boards or repaint. The delivery cost is a big part of the decision also.
Hey I am happy as long as they are being imported and sum1 is restoring them. Eventually I maybe lucky enough to buy one with the work allready done. Would love to own a machine the quality of a Nino resto oneday.
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very interesting thread and posts
well i guess this is my 2 cents
from a dealer who has brought over 200 60 /70 and somes 80s pins in this county in the last 18 months and well over 300 dmds
I see these at the right price worth looking at , the problem is you need to take gamble and hope you can mix and match them and find a couple off
good top end ones like Kiss playboy Rocky and rolling stones all these you will get top dollar for but have to hold them till the right customer comes along.
as for 500 ones yes I sold 55 like this in over a week , no legs no glass no lock bars no leg bolts . they looked complete and i am sure a few here got some
as for later ones like 70 and 80s these also sold from 500 but NONE had boards or legs ect ect for 500. i would think complete ones unchecked would have to be double that for the better titles bar say kiss playboy RS and rocky these all would way more. and yes i did let a few go to auction and sell for less
give you a example of a royal flush Andrew did one of my techs with over 25 years of rebuilding pins and learning on these.
the brought one off me as is spent over $500 on parts made a stencil for it re painted it looked a million dollars so its owed him around $1200.00 ish but wait how many hours did it take him and what price to you put on your time from a dealer I have been charging $55.00 per hour in store.,
well it took him just on 50 hours to do all the work and have it looking like new . A dealer just cant spend that much on one of these and then sell it for a profit. these are way better for the home handyman or we could just cut corners and not do all the work , as others have done. this is also something i WONT do , i would and will rather sell them off as is.
Nino how many hours did you spend on my RS ?? or my rocky ?? or Creechs Sinbad ? or Gregs Jet Star ?? now how many dmd can you do in the same time ?
so the quess the question is am I bringing more in well the answer will be YES once i locate another good batch that also contains some top end ones and at a good price i will buy them. they again will be mostly sold off the same as the last ones.
as it happens I am looking at some
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so the quess the question is am I bringing more in well the answer will be YES once i locate another good batch that also contains some top end ones and at a good price i will buy them. they again will be mostly sold off the same as the last ones.
as it happens I am looking at some
#.# #.#Cant wait hope there is some good SYS 1 titles in there, and great to see you bringing in some of these older Pins Mark #*#
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Good on ya Mark.
You have to be applauded for doing this. I know the $$$ profit isnt what it would be if they were all DMD's. But the demand is there for these older titles.
personally, i dont make the same profit out of every bit of neon i make, but there are the good jobs and the ones that arent going to get you that cruise holiday. They do however keep the industry ticking over, plus the cash flow.
being in business, im sure you will agree isnt about making top profit on everything, its about keeping stuff going out the door and staying as busy as possible.
Then of course there is the side business - the spares etc...it all creates interest and keeps customers "in the loop".
DMD's dont interest me that much bar a few titles, so YOU bringing in older titles keeps my hobby alive and the whole industry ticking over - good on ya mate ^^^
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Thanks for the info Mark. I too look forward to the next batch of golden oldies you bring in. Will it contain that KISS, Embryon, HH or Meteor I'm keen on adding to the collection? Who knows???
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Yeah well done Mark. Dealers usually wont take the gamble and that results in the old pins dieing off... not cool. I understand the fact that you need to make a buck to stay in business but we also need to recognise that these pins would end up in landfill if you didnt bring them in. Nice one Mark!!!
My only issue with you is that you arent in Sydney :lol. I really need to get down there for a meet and greet and hopefully see what my next addition to my pinnie collection will be be.
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I am just about to talk to Mark about setting up a Childs amusements here in brisbane. I will of course be running it - all pins will be fully working and fully tested at my home before going on the shop floor. Yep - im that dedicated that im willing to bring my work home with me.
Anyone wishing to test the pins can come round to my house... entry would be a 6 pack of james squire Golden Ale
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very interesting thread and posts
well i guess this is my 2 cents
from a dealer who has brought over 200 60 /70 and somes 80s pins in this county in the last 18 months and well over 300 dmds
I see these at the right price worth looking at , the problem is you need to take gamble and hope you can mix and match them and find a couple off
good top end ones like Kiss playboy Rocky and rolling stones all these you will get top dollar for but have to hold them till the right customer comes along.
as for 500 ones yes I sold 55 like this in over a week , no legs no glass no lock bars no leg bolts . they looked complete and i am sure a few here got some
as for later ones like 70 and 80s these also sold from 500 but NONE had boards or legs ect ect for 500. i would think complete ones unchecked would have to be double that for the better titles bar say kiss playboy RS and rocky these all would way more. and yes i did let a few go to auction and sell for less
give you a example of a royal flush Andrew did one of my techs with over 25 years of rebuilding pins and learning on these.
the brought one off me as is spent over $500 on parts made a stencil for it re painted it looked a million dollars so its owed him around $1200.00 ish but wait how many hours did it take him and what price to you put on your time from a dealer I have been charging $55.00 per hour in store.,
well it took him just on 50 hours to do all the work and have it looking like new . A dealer just cant spend that much on one of these and then sell it for a profit. these are way better for the home handyman or we could just cut corners and not do all the work , as others have done. this is also something i WONT do , i would and will rather sell them off as is.
Nino how many hours did you spend on my RS ?? or my rocky ?? or Creechs Sinbad ? or Gregs Jet Star ?? now how many dmd can you do in the same time ?
so the quess the question is am I bringing more in well the answer will be YES once i locate another good batch that also contains some top end ones and at a good price i will buy them. they again will be mostly sold off the same as the last ones.
as it happens I am looking at some
It is refreshing to hear honesty at this level, and encouraging that the machines are finding homes at prices the market accepts.
How many hours did I spend on the machines ? It depends on how much time you allocate as WORK, and how much time your spend because you lose yourself in the passion of the restore. Too hard to tell. As an indicative figure, Rolling Stones was around 65 hours, Rocky was around 55 hours, Sinbad was around 70 hours, Strikes and Spares was 55 hours, Flash 50 hours... Star Jet could be anything ! - Jacks Open was 100+ hours... But they are seriously "ball park" - like "turning off the meter" and just ENJOYING the task.
Reconditioning (my standards) a DMD is around 30 - 35 hours, but an acceptable standard would be 25 hours. There's also a learning curve for me as I'm not an "expert" by any means on a DMD - But a Pinball is a Pinball..
I'm keen on "stockpiling" projects, as I want a spread of machines over time...So the more that come in, the happier I am..
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just one quick reply before i go watch a movie and have a drink as its 1.21 am and i have to get up in a few hours lol
thanks for the kind words guys ..
CA in Brisbane well there is a chance ... after my vist but be more likely GC and be a few years off yet LOL
Nino as for a DMD we have to do them in alot less than that but some like TZ always take much longer
I am happy to show anyone around my factory talk to them re importing and what we are looking at
mark
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Hi guys
From my experience if you want old games look at bringing them in your self, risky yes, expensive maybe not. I used a guy based in Los Angeles who bought in my GMC from the US. He was happy to add to one of the many containers with US cars being shipped to NZ. With the transport end sorted I just need to source the games and get them to Los Angeles - this became the pricey aspect of the operation. I couldn't find the games I wanted closer to where I wanted them to be. They always seemed to be on the East Coast and too expensive to ship. So I settled for mid America and closer. My centaur came from new orleans , Devils Dare from Missouri and Surf Champ from Illinois. Just missed out on a Star Race. They were a one off opportunity and the US/NZ dollar exchange rate wasn't too bad.
All the games were in good cond , the Surf champ wasnt as good as I had expected but for a $165US game plus shipping it's still ok. I have since discovered there is another Surf Champ in NZ so there are 2 in NZ. The others are the only ones here so I am happy. All are going except for Devils Dare ( no room at present )
Luckily my collection is almost complete and I now may have the opportunity to get some games from the UK but that will be another story.