The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Photo Gallery => Other Photos => Topic started by: Extra Ball on November 27, 2009, 11:50:17 PM
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Finished replacing all the bulbs in FT and Dr Who with LEDs. Most of the PF LEDs in Dr Who I assembled myself, its about 20-40 cents per insert, but time consuming (bought from ledsales in australia). The pre-mades are a mixture of Ablaze (from RTBB), and Cointaker.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Gwind/dmdnitebranshovel003.jpg)
My home-mades:
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Gwind/diyleds002.jpg)
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EB they look great. ^^^
Quick question.
Q- Is the final colour and brightness dramatically better than standard bulbs. Is it a big difference or only minimal ? I am considering doing my machines, but it might take me ages to do the fleet. I would buy in bulk so i would save. how much brighter and better percentage wise do you think it makes ?
From here it looks brighter.
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They look GREAT !
I will be installing LEDs in my CV. Pictures like these are impressive. Thanks for sharing !
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Its brighter, but more importantly gives the inserts more definition. The numbers/text, artwork on inserts is really better defined. Its probably the easiest, and most dramatic of all pinball mods.
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i am sold.
where do i buy multiple colours, ready to go, put straight in LED'S from,by the box load, lots of different colours.
what about flashers, and all the different sizes of different bulbs.can we get all and every in LEDS n colours. bulk purchases to do 25 pins ?
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Nice Greg ^^^
Can U do me a favour and take the same shot with the PF glass off the games one day so we dont get the DMD reflection !@#
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if i am right the led that is pictured is a standard led with a resistor soldered on and covered with insulation. (when i say standard i mean a standard ultra bright led not one of those ones that have a wedge base and just plugs into the socket.
this looks like a much cheaper option than buying those pre made plug in jobs.
or i could be wrong and they now sell them like that
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if i am right the led that is pictured is a standard led with a resistor soldered on and covered with insulation. (when i say standard i mean a standard ultra bright led not one of those ones that have a wedge base and just plugs into the socket.
this looks like a much cheaper option than buying those pre made plug in jobs.
or i could be wrong and they now sell them like that
see my previous post.lol
need the suppliers details. but i dont want to stuff around making 800. ^&^
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Beaky yes the one sitting on the pliers is my own work. I take the bulb holder out of the board, and solder in a ultra-bright LED with a resistor onto it.
This tells the story:
I love LEDs in pins, but my wallet wont stretch to buy enough that I want. So after seeing the results like others get I decided to make my own, well my own way of easily installing them. Once I got the resistors onto them, came the question of how to mount. I know soldering straight to the pcb would make sense, but I dont want to wreck my lamp pcbs.
This was proto-type no1 (snapped-off bottom of a 555 incandescent bulb). Feel free to laugh, but it did work, just not very well lol
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Gwind/diyleds001.jpg)
Then decided to solder them into the lamp holder sockets. With a bit of mucking around I reckon I have got it rite, and am happy with the results. Putting the white sleeve (just 4 core wire covering) was my best innovation lol Easy enough to mount them this way, I will not wreck my pcbs, and easy to de-solder should the leds fail. Oh I found the easy way to get the polarity rite was to solder the long leg (resistor mounted one) to the side of the socket marked with a "-" on it. I found I can get 2 LEDs easily enough in the one socket for larger inserts.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Gwind/diyleds002.jpg)
DIY LEDs at 20 to 40 cents each.
:cool:
LED resistor calculator: http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz (http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz)
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where do you buy your leds from?
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I'm intrigued by LEDs, but have not made the plunge yet because I understand they won't 'dim' like GI does, and the rapid cycling gives some people headaches.
I'd like to try them in my MB or NF. Maybe my SS, as it's next in line after the Creature. Who knows!
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have played a STNG with all LED mods throughout... looks AWESOME. Being able to match LED colours to insert colours really gives a new depth to them all.. the purples were just beautiful.
As for the constant cycling - this shouldnt happen on a pinball.. the flicker on many LED signs is due to the SMPS that runs them... some of these are only 30 - 40hz and is noticeable to the eye.
Frequency on a pinball transformer is 50hz and is a different way of delivering 12vDC ( or do DMD's have SMPS in them?? i doubt it)
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I dont put LEDs in the immediate flipper area because I find they reflect off the ball, making it a little harder to see. That maybe just for me, I know other guys dont seem to have the same issue.
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Looks excellent Greg. I don't have the patience to make my own like you, so am eagerly awaiting my Cointaker order to do Theatre of Magic inserts and flashers. Love the LED's in inserts and flashers, but my thoughts are to leave GI as std incandescent, just gives a more "natural" feel. Any thoughts on this guys.
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I have been doing a lot of research regarding leds. I have a funny feeling that the home market will be nearly 90% led in the next couple of years. Their is a planned roll out of halogens in the future
During my research i sourced the company that supplies to cointaker and the single leds(normal / wide) can be had for around the $40 mark per 100.
Their are other products like the multi led that will cost more(I posted on another forum that i could get leds for around the $70 mark per 100)This covered the cost of every line from the 4+1hp led products to the single leds.
I have samples coming in from another company that offers a 3 yr warranty on these pinball leds (i thought this was amazing) The price point is very similar. Except that different colours are more expensive
The company that supplies to cointaker offers 12 months warranty on these pinball leds.
I'd say wait a couple of weeks if you can, it could work out a but cheaper in the long run.
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I have been doing a lot of research regarding leds. I have a funny feeling that the home market will be nearly 90% led in the next couple of years. Their is a planned roll out of halogens in the future
During my research i sourced the company that supplies to cointaker and the single leds(normal / wide) can be had for around the $40 mark per 100.
Their are other products like the multi led that will cost more(I posted on another forum that i could get leds for around the $70 mark per 100)This covered the cost of every line from the 4+1hp led products to the single leds.
I have samples coming in from another company that offers a 3 yr warranty on these pinball leds (i thought this was amazing) The price point is very similar. Except that different colours are more expensive
The company that supplies to cointaker offers 12 months warranty on these pinball leds.
I'd say wait a couple of weeks if you can, it could work out a but cheaper in the long run.
I dug around myself, and couldnt find cheaper than cointaker. I sent you a message on the other side.
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Looks great Greg .
I might have to post some pics of my Star Wars fully kitted out once I get it back together ( got it apart for a good clean) .
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I have been doing a lot of research regarding leds. I have a funny feeling that the home market will be nearly 90% led in the next couple of years. Their is a planned roll out of halogens in the future
During my research i sourced the company that supplies to cointaker and the single leds(normal / wide) can be had for around the $40 mark per 100.
Their are other products like the multi led that will cost more(I posted on another forum that i could get leds for around the $70 mark per 100)This covered the cost of every line from the 4+1hp led products to the single leds.
I have samples coming in from another company that offers a 3 yr warranty on these pinball leds (i thought this was amazing) The price point is very similar. Except that different colours are more expensive
The company that supplies to cointaker offers 12 months warranty on these pinball leds.
I'd say wait a couple of weeks if you can, it could work out a but cheaper in the long run.
I remember back in 2000 - 2001 when ultra bright leds started becoming readily available at a reasonable price the company i was working for started to sell garden and decretive lights with leds instead of incandecent and halogen bulbs. The amount that companies and people where buying was unbelievable.
I was head of design and manufacturing led products and i told the managing director of the company to approach Brisbane city council and the department of transport about supplying led fittings for traffic lights because at that stage there where no led traffic lights in Queensland. And I also suggested to make a line of led truck & trailer lights, his reply was " there would not be enough demand to warrant the research & development of these items". BIG MISTAKE, how many trucks and comercial hire trailers do you see with led lights all over them? and about 75% of existing traffic lights and all new traffic lights that are installed in QLD are led. I told him that leds are the way of the future, he didn't believe me.
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Well the truck and car lights are spot on - a steady 12V supply from a battery giving dead smooth 12VDC
The traffic lights on the other hand have proved to be a maintenance nightmare and more unreliable than the old incandescent bulbs.. they were from what i gather changed over as incandescent blew as they know the technology will get better.
I import LED downlights - compared to halogen these are bloody great - can run 8 off 3 X 2W LED from one 50W supply compared to one 50W halogen.
6W of LED can give the equivalent light output of just under 1 X 50W halogen - interestingly enough though 3X 2W LED pulls LESS current than a single 5W LED. In other words the extent that LED can go is a non linear equation.
LED;s are bloody great and will take over from incandescent... however they are not THE most energy efficient form of light - this still after over 100 years of steady service remains firmly in the pocket of neon, which is 3X more efficient than LED given the same power supply - if using standard iron core transformers then LED JUST beats neon for linear length, but not on light output.
Remember that LED is only 90% efficient once you have a steady 12V DC supply - you have to convert mains AC to 12V DC first and this is where BIG inefficiencies lie...
But for incandescent.. LED is the future by a long mile
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I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.
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I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.
And there my friend is the myth - i have heard stories from customers told to them by LED salesmen that neon runs so hot that the aircon in the shopping centres is on full blast.. LED will aleviate this.
heres the facts..
LED requires 12v or 24V DC supply dependant on the number of LED in series. LED MUST have a steady current or you will kill it.... LED is supposed to last 100.000hrs continuous use... in the field 4 - 6 months is typical.
LEd is available with constant current supply - it is very expensive and still not reliable.
The most efficient power supply that i have in my shop for LED draws 1.4A @ 240V and supplies 180W @12V ( 15A).. this will load at 80% and will therefore give a linear length of white LED of 13M tops.
With an iron core transformer - once again loaded to 80% i can supply 13M of white neon with a current input of 1.23A @ 240v.. but to add the light output of neon is 1.5 of that of LED. Already a saving of 40.8W but with 1.5 times the punch
Now if i run my neon with an electronic power supply the same technology that runs LED then for 1.4A i can run a whopping 66M of neon.
neon has been around for over 100 years simply because it has the most punch for dollar - always has been.
Difference is that LED is 12V @ 15A - input 1,4A
Neon is 10,000V @ 30mA input 1.23A Iron core..... 0.4A electronic
Neon High voltage - low current
LED Low voltage - high current.
Oh and just to add neon will outlast ANY LED.. i always give 2 years unconditional guarantee against failure.. last time i spoke to my LED supplier who supplies GE type ( considered the best with CREE chip) his returns after 5 years still remain at around 60%... mine after 5 years are ZERO and i mean ZERO!
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How good would neon pinball bulbs look, but that's not possible huh.
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I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.
And there my friend is the myth - i have heard stories from customers told to them by LED salesmen that neon runs so hot that the aircon in the shopping centres is on full blast.. LED will aleviate this.
heres the facts..
LED requires 12v or 24V DC supply dependant on the number of LED in series. LED MUST have a steady current or you will kill it.... LED is supposed to last 100.000hrs continuous use... in the field 4 - 6 months is typical.
LEd is available with constant current supply - it is very expensive and still not reliable.
The most efficient power supply that i have in my shop for LED draws 1.4A @ 240V and supplies 180W @12V ( 15A).. this will load at 80% and will therefore give a linear length of white LED of 13M tops.
With an iron core transformer - once again loaded to 80% i can supply 13M of white neon with a current input of 1.23A @ 240v.. but to add the light output of neon is 1.5 of that of LED. Already a saving of 40.8W but with 1.5 times the punch
Now if i run my neon with an electronic power supply the same technology that runs LED then for 1.4A i can run a whopping 66M of neon.
neon has been around for over 100 years simply because it has the most punch for dollar - always has been.
Difference is that LED is 12V @ 15A - input 1,4A
Neon is 10,000V @ 30mA input 1.23A Iron core..... 0.4A electronic
Neon High voltage - low current
LED Low voltage - high current.
Oh and just to add neon will outlast ANY LED.. i always give 2 years unconditional guarantee against failure.. last time i spoke to my LED supplier who supplies GE type ( considered the best with CREE chip) his returns after 5 years still remain at around 60%... mine after 5 years are ZERO and i mean ZERO!
I have found if you run leds on a long run of cable( i.e. your power supply is 10 or 15 meteres away from leds) then you have problems with inductance or power serges, especialy if the cable runs along metal. a way to get around this is 1st use a tranzorb and second use a switch mode regulated power supply that brings the current up slowly,(when i say slowly it means still fast enough that the leds look like they are instantly on but if you look at it on a crow then you can see that it rises in a linier fashon).
when i was designing led fittings and power supplies to suit i found a switch mode voltage regulator that did just this and after we started using these regulators and tranzorbs in our control gear and fitting the amount of warranty returns dropped from 30% down to 1%.
i still have the schematic for this power supply.
Another advantage with the said power supply is it would supply 5.5 amps continuously and the output could be shorted indefinitely with out the power supply overheating, also when the short or excess load was removed the power supply would work again without pressing a reset button.
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With the LEDs being WHITE, you'll notice more purer colours of your plastics, as opposed to the typical YELLOW (warm) light from bulbs.
Also to note, in machines where GI lamps are DIMMED, the LEDs will stay constantly BRIGHT until the dimming voltage is low enough for the LED to turn OFF, so you'll lose your Dimming effects, it'll become more of a blink effect.
These ultra-bright LEDs are VERY efficient, and you really need to pulse-width control them for dimming effects.
Also beware of LED focal point, narrow beams versus wide beam, this may affect the mounting distance under the Playfield, otherwise you get a whole bunch of hot dots, instead of nicely illuminated plastics.
Some LEDs may even require a softening filter between the LED and the plastic. using something as simple as tracing paper (oven baking paper) will do...time to experiment.
Something to consider, depending on what machine you fit LEDs into....
my 2 cents....
MM.
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I have had good results rubbing sandpaper over LEDs. Seems to disperse light, somewhat softer and wider.
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I have had good results rubbing sandpaper over LEDs. Seems to disperse light, somewhat softer and wider.
Nice and simple...
I've seen some equipment (not pinball) simply with a blob of silicon on the end of the LED, enough to soften the glow without dulling it down.
MM.
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Got my LED's today so I could finish the 30 odd globes that needed to be replaced with LED's in the Fishtales.. What an ORSM change...
Check out the difference... Warning, the footage is taken from my mobile so hopefully its OK.............