The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: pinball god on May 03, 2015, 10:40:54 AM
-
Had this go during gameplay the other day which took out a bank of solenoids including the ball eject, raising the trapdoor and metamorphasis magnet. I replaced it and all good for a dozen games over a few days and now its gone again after a couple of minutes game play. Any ideas why or where best to start looking? Thanks very much
-
Was it the correct fuse (size and slow blow or fast blow) compared to the schematics when u first looked or did you replace the fuse with identical.
I am assuming with game turned off you have reseated all connectors on various boards to get a better/correct contact.
If u open the playfield, can u follow the wiring that that fuse is responsible for as per the schematics and make sure there isn't a loose wire or broken wire or something shorting intermittently.
If you have done all this, then I would be looking at the rear of some of your boards to see if there are any blackened/overheated areas or areas that have been repaired before.
I do these steps and if I can't get an answer or the fault to stop, time for someone else with a multi meter with the schematics who is more patient than I.
I am pretty sure you have the game manual n schematics. Theatre of Magic. Great game.
Drop Beaky a PM. He is amazing at solving this stuff.
-
Thank you for your suggestions. I haven't had a chance as yet. I think the manual is incorrect in that it state f105 for the bank of solenoids but I found f104 was the offender. My thoughts as to what may be causing the problem could be the side magna save magnets. Either or both may be too sensitive and are being activating a lot during game play. So this may be putting too much strain on the fuse. I will try adjusting these first unless someone can suggest more obvious things to look at first. Thanks again
-
What brand fuse are you using. I had the same issue where the magnet would blow the fuse regularly but not every time. My fix was going from a cheap fuse to the buss brand.
-
Are you using a fast blow fuse instead of a slow blow perhaps?
-
Buss slow blow 3amp were used, brand spankers. Put my last one in and blew within seconds of playing. The side magnets seem to be coming on way too soon and maybe staying on too long. I heard them activate while the ball was bouncing side to side across the playfield. This could be a coincidence but I dunno???
I am pretty sure the magnets are over heating the fuse. I may put in a fast blow to just see if the magnets are on all the time. What do you think?
-
Fast blow won't hurt. In actual fact will protect machine quicker by blowing fuse quicker.
I say disconnect both magnets and play some games then reconnect one magnet at a time and see what happens.
Do this to both magnets by reconnecting one at a time.
Magnets overheating are a big problem.
What's the cost to replace the magnets if they are not working correctly.
Can u identify the driver which runs them and check the voltage there isn't too low or too high ?
The Next step is Beaky.
-
Magnets are a tricky thing to fault find as you can do massive damage to many things if you are not very careful.
I would refrain from continuing to replace fuses until you have a plan of attack for rectifying the problem, perhaps replace the coils and driver transistors all at the same time???
-
Magnets are a tricky thing to fault find as you can do massive damage to many things if you are not very careful.
I would refrain from continuing to replace fuses until you have a plan of attack for rectifying the problem, perhaps replace the coils and driver transistors all at the same time???
sorry mike but unsure what you mean. Are these on the power driver? Forgot to mention using a rottendog driver thats a year or two old. I can replace it with the original for testing.
I haven't tried anything yet as figured there are suggestions that could save me a lot of heartache and blown components. Please advise next moves and will wait till then. Isolating the magnets is on m list.
-
Fuse 104 controls solinoids 9 to 16 according to the print. Run the solinoids test function fit a good fuse installed and see when it blows. Sol 9 is left sling, 10 right sling, 11 bottom jet bumper, 12 Middle jet bumper, 13 top jet bumper, 14 trap door, 15 left up down gate and 16 right up down gate. Run solinoids T 4 test in repeat mode that way you can slowly step through each soliniod till fuse blows
Shouldn't have anything to do with magnets at all
-
Can you swap another power driver board from another machine? I have seen all sorts of wirrd issues with rottendog stuff including mpu, power driver and fliptronics boards from them
-
I think the manual is wrong as F104 fires magnets, trapdoor, ball eject etc, but can try this test. I also have the original power driver that works fine but I lost confidence in when it cooked a fuse holder while just being on idle. Got it fixed but replaced it with the rottendog seeing I had this spare. Will have to try all these suggestions on the week end, bit also need to get my hands on 3 amp slow blows too. Got lots of fast blows though.
-
Having a 3a and 5a circuit breaker on hand is a good idea as well. I have them with alligator leads attached and use them for trouble shooting. That way you aren't blowing fuses looking for the problem
-
Ok guys, no idea what's going wrong. I replaced the F104 fuse and played a game. I could see this fuse light up when the spirit ring magnet activated but hung on there for a good while. Then tried solenoid test mode and all solenoids on this line lit the fuse like a light bulb when they activated. The only reason the fuse didn't blow was I let go of the door switch in time. What I did notice was the transformer really started to hum loudly when testing a solenoid on the line.
I tried removed the left drain magnet from the game and it wouldn't fire up. Reconnected it without the rod/core and it powered up. Just unplugged the right magnet and same thing happened. And yet my first test for the night was to unplug both of these magnets and I could power up and play a game, although the fuse still was under much stress.
Any idea on what to try or is it time for a tech? Thanks. Btw I have unplugged the game from the gpo
-
So with the magnets disconnected the fuse still glows hot.
Maybe something driving that circuit is feeding too much juice down the line.
Send Beaky a PM and grab his phone number. He is the BEST pinball tech in Australia and understands every part of a pinball machine extremely well. I am sure Andy would spend half an hour with you on the phone and walk you through exactly what and how he would trouble shoot your problem.
I think a multi meter and checking what is coming out of your boards would be where I would start to determine if the values are correct or not. Once that is established and checked, you can then work down the line on each component.
Phoning Beaky could save you hundreds. Ask him in your PM to look up Thatre of Magic schematics before he rings you so u both have them on hand at the same time.
-
Cannot disconnect all magnets as spirit ring plug is under ramps so heaps to remove, but with the two drain magnets it still gets hot. She cooks if the ball trough eject activates, when the knocker activates etc.
-
Swap the drain magnets.
With the RHS Drain magnet disconnected and a new 3A SB fuse installed, you should be able to play a game. Also, solenoid 14 (Trapdoor hold) is part of the same F104 circuit. Check that the trapdoor mechs are working 100% and there's no friction of the moving parts.
You could also check the voltages at the lugs of any solenoids. With the playfield raised and the front door closed, you should see the same DC voltage on both lugs on just about every coil.
From memory, the magnets should read 7.5 Ohm (game off and measure with the magnets disconnected).
-
Swap the board sounds like a crook bridge rectifier
-
Measured all magnets except the trunk and they measure 4.5ohms. Swapped the drain ones and still problem. Disconnected spirit ring still problem. The good news is the fuse blows once high voltage is present (coin door closed). I noticed by just being in solenoid test with it on stop and closing the coin door, there is a major hum and the fuse lights up. Like I said the good thing is the problem is worse and constant.
UPDATE did a pcb swap and all good I think. Thanks Dean.
My question now is I have a tiger saw motor croc clip that connected to a resistor on 12vp on the rottendog pcb. Where do I connect it on my original williams driver pcb? I have tp1 and 3 label 12vu and 12vr which I'm guessing mean regulated and unregulated. Please advise if you can or if you need more info. See photo
Also where and what bridge rectifier is stuffed on this rottendog pcb. I can't seem to find where the br's are on this board. See photo. Thanks
-
Other two pics
-
Solved tiger saw question tp1, but can't figure how to fox the power drive pcb re bridge rectifier etc.
-
No bridge rectifiers on the rottendog board, just diodes. Do diode test on all the large diodes at the top left of the board.
Yet another story as i posted earlier regarding issues with rottendog boards...
-
No bridge rectifiers on the rottendog board, just diodes. Do diode test on all the large diodes at the top left of the board.
Yet another story as i posted earlier regarding issues with rottendog boards...
thanks Rob will have a look. Is it an easier job than replacing br's? Does jaycar sell replacements and if so what should I ask for? Thanks
-
Quickly tested the large diodes and found D51 and D53 showing .700+ instead of 0 but also D52 and D54 reading starts low and climbs until it reads OL like the rest. Can someone explain if any are in trouble etc. I cannot see how these involve the 50v problem with the solenoids??
-
Hmmm they may be ok. Find the driver transistor that drives the magnet. Should be a tip102. Put multimeter in continuity mode and see if there is continuity between the metal tab and ground. If so it is shorted on. Replace it and its predriver transistor a 5401. Also test the legs of those transistors in diode mode, just see that it tests the same as other ones the same around it.
-
How are u testing the diodes? With meter on diode setting red lead on the end of diode with line and black common lead on other end record all the readings and let us know
-
How are u testing the diodes? With meter on diode setting red lead on the end of diode with line and black common lead on other end record all the readings and let us know
as mentioned earlier all read ol except D51 & D53 0.712 & 0.704 and D52 & D54 start around 0.8 and climb until the read ol. Once this has occurred they will read OL.
D53 and D54 are linked as are D51 and D52
Also Q91 to Q98 tip 107's show ranges in 0.5 for outside legs and 0.00 middle leg except Q64 13N10L right leg reading 0.46 or so. All the other Q's 13N10L's read OL and 0.00 for middle leg
-
I'm getting the feeling that rottendog boards may not be the best in the business...
-
From my experiences, one leg of the diode should be de-soldered from the PCB prior to testing. Leaving it on the board & testing means your measuring the resistance of the whole PCB circuit. Can give you the wrong reading leading you up the garden path so to speak.
-
I'm getting the feeling that rottendog boards may not be the best in the business...
I've got a Rottendog power supply for my System 1 Cleopatra, had no issue with it or the quality.
-
Ive had 3 good rottendog boards and 3 bad 1 x wpc mpu 1 x wpc fliptronics and 1 x system11 mpu
-
I have one rot wpc cpu and one wpc driver which is faulty. Thats 50% success rate. Also have 10+ drivers and cpu's/mpu's some 30-40 years old williams/bally going strong. I wish rot D were better as they gave me security to keep my games going for years to come. I have doubts now.