The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: Pintoxicated on January 25, 2012, 08:17:24 AM
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Just throwing this one out there.....
Whilst new pinball machines are great, how do you think a brand new retro looking machine would sell. By that I mean model a machine on those made in the late 70's and into the 80's with awesome artwork along the lines of Centaur, Medusa, Fathom, Paragon etc etc or even the classic Gtb wedgehead machines. Classic looking machines but built with todays technology, no DMDs or expensive toys, just heaps of drop targets, spinner or two, gobble holes, captive ball, proper backglasses - not translites etc etc.
You would think that the machines could be produced relatively cheap compared to new machines of today which could open up the chance of owning a NIB machine to some of us that just can't afford a new machine at the moment. No need to develop new toys, LED displays are already available along with everything else that would be needed in a machine like this.
Personally I think it could be another success like AC/DC and generate more interest in pinball all round.
Your thoughts????
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Like the remske of 'Kings and queens'?
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Not for me..I need dmd,toys ,lots of mulitball action.
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Like the remske of 'Kings and queens'?
yeah but done by Stern for example and not so much a re-make of an old machine. An un-licensed title that is what some may call 'pure' pinball. Even make a series of machines with a likeness to say the early 70's, late 70' and the 80's including chimes. just wishful thinking I know but I reckon they would be cool.
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I used to think there would be a market for that sort of thing, potentially through a mainstream vendor (ie a Harvey Norman) where Baby Boomers with cash and fond memories could relive their childhood. Nug and I talked about this a couple of years ago before the GFC, I really thought with the right game it was a possibility. We were even looking at getting costs for wiring looms etc done at the time for a game we had in mind (assuming a licence could be obtained if needed). Aim was to make a game that looked and felt just like a restored original, no Zizzle shortcuts.
The King of Diamonds remake doesn't seem to be getting much discussion, so maybe the idea was not as good as it seemed, although we were looking at early solid state rather than EM.
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I think early SS would be the go as well. How hard is to find say an early SS machine along the lines of Centaur, Evil Knievel, Fathom, Paragon, 6MDM, Superman etc etc. There are plenty of non-licensed machines that are up there on many people's wish lists that are tucked away in collections that rarely get traded.
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Capcom tried it ("Classic Pinball") with Break Shot , old style single level Layout, DMD, modern underneath, and sold at a good price and aimed at operators
( Capcom had at least 4 other machine on the drawing board for there Classic division) Break Shot sold quite well
Churchill Cabinet tried it with Vacation America single level no ramps, 7-segment displays aimed at the home market = flop ( it did have a couple of good ideas in it)
Kings and queens no real interest = flop
Zizzle well flop
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Fair enough.
How do you think someone like Stern would go with the concept though?
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Yeh Kings & Queens was exactly this concept... we all sat here behind our computers and poo pooed it
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Fair enough.
How do you think someone like Stern would go with the concept though?
IMO Capcom did a very nice / smart job with Break shot, it was to bad they closed there (pinball) door before they had a real chance
to test the Classic idea out.
Stern....I don't think they are smart enough to make a game thats fun/ classic layout .......(just look at there Pro's ),
they would need to keep away from watered down games of LE's and do a original game (Capcom at least hired a designer (Greg Kmiec) to do ONLY classic concept games)
as for Kings and Queens "A+" for the idea....... but why that one, they could of chosen a better game
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I think it's a great idea. Provided it was as much fun to play as say a Paragon or Black Knight ect I would love one (have had the same idea myself before)..Old school sounds,looks, layout and play without all the toys and speech . Also the reliability of modern technonogly and at a good price without all the bells and whistles.
I love the look of Breakshot..a member had a mint one for sale last year but at the time I didnt have the funds or I would have brought it.
For all the older blokes who love the SS machines it would be like a trip down memory lane back to pure pinball as we remember it.
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Yeh Kings & Queens was exactly this concept... we all sat here behind our computers and poo pooed it
..and rightly so. A horrible product. The cabinet was a DMD style cabinet and the game looked like a converted or custom game. Even the door and plunger looked wrong !
I don't think we can ever recapture the magic of a NIB EM. A remake using the original technology would be difficult and time consuming. If the crew that did Kings and Queens used the original plans to build the cabinet, it wold have been a successful project.
Greg made a great point. Breakshot was basically an EM or SS style playfield using DMD technology - and it worked. For those who have not played Breakshot - it is "As good" and any DMD, and plays much better than a game full of ramps and toys. I only wish this innovation continued into other titles.
I think an SS remake could be done, or the style followed. If decent themes and licenses can be found, it would be a winner. Imagine an modern day Fathom, Paragon, Black Knight, Flash, Haunted House, Black Hole, Meteor and Galaxy !
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That is what I was thinking. The parts aren't really any different to what is available today meaning minimal R&D on new toys and less cost overall you'd think. The above mentioned titles prove that a machine doesn't have to have a licensed theme to be a success. Any sort of sci-fi, futuristic, spacey sort of theme always seemed to work well.
I am not 100% sure if making every machine family friendly is the way to go, afterall who buys these machines.....us old farts who have a connection to these machines with some spare cash here and there. The themes didn't affect us when we were kids or no more than what video games are doing to kids these days.
This of course is just a personal wish but I would love to see a modern version of an early SS style machine brought to life. Not a re-make but a new title.
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That is what I was thinking. The parts aren't really any different to what is available today meaning minimal R&D on new toys and less cost overall you'd think.
This is exactly where the wheels have fallen off in the recent past with certain 'rights holders' putting the kybosh on any new concept or machine using 'off the shelf' (insert patented) parts. I was certainly told, in no uncertain terms, not to even dream about using flipper asemblies, drop targets etc etc etc. by one 'rights holder' because if I did I would never get to sell even one machine!
I believe this situation is far more relaxed recently.
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That is what I was thinking. The parts aren't really any different to what is available today meaning minimal R&D on new toys and less cost overall you'd think.
This is exactly where the wheels have fallen off in the recent past with certain 'rights holders' putting the kybosh on any new concept or machine using 'off the shelf' (insert patented) parts. I was certainly told, in no uncertain terms, not to even dream about using flipper asemblies, drop targets etc etc etc. by one 'rights holder' because if I did I would never get to sell even one machine!
I believe this situation is far more relaxed recently.
I suspect most patents will be expired now, or close - generally 20 years, so for example, flipper assemblies similar to Williams system 11 games must have been designed in the mid-80's, and probably even WPC later will be close to 20 years old too. P2K has a time to run though. We used assemblies on Coconut Island from system 11 age where they were Williams, and used Data East and other manufacturers where possible for targets etc.
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They are using predominantly Williams parts on WOZ aren't they? Backs up Mike's notion that things have relaxed or at least they can be approached.
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That is what I was thinking. The parts aren't really any different to what is available today meaning minimal R&D on new toys and less cost overall you'd think.
This is exactly where the wheels have fallen off in the recent past with certain 'rights holders' putting the kybosh on any new concept or machine using 'off the shelf' (insert patented) parts. I was certainly told, in no uncertain terms, not to even dream about using flipper asemblies, drop targets etc etc etc. by one 'rights holder' because if I did I would never get to sell even one machine!
I believe this situation is far more relaxed recently.
Most of all that was hogwash anyway. I think anything before 1978 was ALWAYS fine to reproduce - as in generic parts such as flipper assemblies. No proof was ever supplied with the FAKE C&D emails !!@
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They are using predominantly Williams parts on WOZ aren't they? Backs up Mike's notion that things have relaxed or at least they can be approached.
I'm pretty sure Jack and Rick ( one of the'rights holders' ) have a deal to allows Jack to use a lot of WMS parts
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I would deffs buy one of the new "old" pinnies, i think its a great idea, especially if its an ss, love it!
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I think an SS remake could be done, or the style followed. If decent themes and licenses can be found, it would be a winner. Imagine an modern day Fathom, Paragon, Black Knight, Flash, Haunted House, Black Hole, Meteor and Galaxy !
+1 .... that would certainly get my interest!
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I would love something done like that of a game like fathom that just dont come up very often
And i love the idea of having games that you can just tun on and play but are nto a huge dmd fan. Thats why my strikes and spares has brand new Altek boards throughout and new rottendog displays. My gorgar has all new Rottendog boards and display all i need to do i repin every plug like i id with Strikes and should be good for some time (Fingers crossed)
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Just re-do Fathom or Haunted House at a decent price and they would sell
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I have just seen a picture of an original KoD sitting next to the remake KoD
AHGGGGG, mine eyes
Has modern coindoor, DMD style cabinet (the backbox is now 10cm taller), wrong plunger housing, credit button in cabinet
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I reckon this is a great idea.
If they could make exactly the same machine, but using new technology, it would be a blast for those who want a BNIB machine that they played in their youth. I would put my hand up for a brand new 1978 Phoenix made by Williams. That title isnt as sought after as some of the other 70's/80's stuff, but the colours when new are magnificent. The only way these machines would get made, to keep the costs down is to get someone like Mike(homepin) on board with his excellent China/production connections.
Imagine getting a brand new in box 70's machine. That would be magnificent. ! ^^^
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a retro pin is still going to cost more than most people will want to spend on an old game
Plyfield . Cabinet. Wireing . Lamps . Switches. Plastics.......
Other than no ramps, not much cost savings
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some one posted that game a while back that looked retro as far as layout but had, al lthe mod cons of a new machine, like optical roll overs, leds and looked really cool, think it was a prototype of some kind. only thing is an old style game would be wanted by people already in pinball, wouldn't really appeal to newbies and wouldnt be a big attraction for getting new people into pinball or venders wanting to spend the money on a simple machine to have them sited, it would be a little bit of a step back over all after the success of acda machine, but if it was a limited run sort of anniversary style machine for collectors that could be good
but saying that retro is in fashion atm.
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http://www.pinballnews.com/games/newcanasta/index.html
Is this the game you were taking about?
some one posted that game a while back that looked retro as far as layout but had, al lthe mod cons of a new machine, like optical roll overs, leds and looked really cool, think it was a prototype of some kind. only thing is an old style game would be wanted by people already in pinball, wouldn't really appeal to newbies and wouldnt be a big attraction for getting new people into pinball or venders wanting to spend the money on a simple machine to have them sited, it would be a little bit of a step back over all after the success of acda machine, but if it was a limited run sort of anniversary style machine for collectors that could be good
but saying that retro is in fashion atm.
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http://www.pinballnews.com/games/newcanasta/index.html
Is this the game you were taking about?
some one posted that game a while back that looked retro as far as layout but had, al lthe mod cons of a new machine, like optical roll overs, leds and looked really cool, think it was a prototype of some kind. only thing is an old style game would be wanted by people already in pinball, wouldn't really appeal to newbies and wouldnt be a big attraction for getting new people into pinball or venders wanting to spend the money on a simple machine to have them sited, it would be a little bit of a step back over all after the success of acda machine, but if it was a limited run sort of anniversary style machine for collectors that could be good
but saying that retro is in fashion atm.
thats it, playfield wise that looks great, cant say i like the theme, but thats like a oldschool style playfield but with cool mods to make it interesting
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There is an interesting article in the latest PGJ about the King Of Diamonds remake. Since Stern pulled out of the project there are now lots of original Gottlieb parts used. I found it a very interesting read and I am looking forward to seeing more of it and possibly even more games being done, they do refer to the project as "our first game". Price dependant I'd look at buying a new old game. Would you pay $4k for a new in box Eldorado?
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I think there are plenty of guys out there that love the 70's and 80's machine but get a bit scared by all the gizmos and gadgets on DMD machines. Something like a late 70's Bally machine is very easy to strip down and clean compared to a DMD machine and the artwork is second to none.
The boardsets are already out there e.g. Alltek, Pascal, Rottendog and the like. Produce a machine using these or similar boards with a sweet looking backglass (not translite) and playfield and I reckon you'd sell enough units to make it worthwhile.
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What if you had a early 80's style game but with a few settings some features could raise out of the playfield including a loop around ramp and loop around under the ramp ???? couple of linear actuators and away you go.
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What if you had a early 80's style game but with a few settings some features could raise out of the playfield including a loop around ramp and loop around under the ramp ???? couple of linear actuators and away you go.
you describhred a zac machine lol
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I suppose I did when I think about it %.%
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Pinball News in-depth review of King Of Diamonds here: http://www.pinballnews.com/games/kingofdiamonds/index2.html (http://www.pinballnews.com/games/kingofdiamonds/index2.html)
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LOVE IT ! this remake is ace ( well it appears that way ) bring oldskool to newskool is friggin AWESOME
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there ain't nuthin like the feel and play of an old EM machine . You must have at east one in ya collection .
Does any one no if an Aussie distributor is flogging these and if Retro Pinball are doing our voltages ?
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Been thinking more about this. Bear in mind the Gottlieb "Street Level" half dozen games back in the late eighties / early nineties. They were a return to no ramp games (ie everything at "street" level) and while most are fun, they were a big flop with players.
Not saying the market would react the same - Gottlieb were trying new themes, and here we're talking about old school themes - that's what makes it a better proposition.
I wonder if EM's are the way to go? Seems to me that the age group that first experienced all those nice flashy displays are about right to be cashed up to pay for a machine bought at the local Harvey Norman.
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Seems to me that the age group that first experienced all those nice flashy displays are about right to be cashed up to pay for a machine bought at the local Harvey Norman.
Don't you mean "ready to be stitched up with 20 years no payments, interest free" bollocks?? %.%
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Seems to me that the age group that first experienced all those nice flashy displays are about right to be cashed up to pay for a machine bought at the local Harvey Norman.
Don't you mean "ready to be stitched up with 20 years no payments, interest free" bollocks?? %.%
Lol!! Iguess that is what l meant! @.@
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Im actually pretty impressed with the KOD from Retropinball, i like the way it operates and its overall simplicity very much. So much so that ive been in contact with them regarding this machine OR the next in line... At $3850USD and our exchange rate... this is good buying
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Im actually pretty impressed with the KOD from Retropinball, i like the way it operates and its overall simplicity very much. So much so that ive been in contact with them regarding this machine OR the next in line... At $3850USD and our exchange rate... this is good buying
What's the next one planned?
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Im actually pretty impressed with the KOD from Retropinball, i like the way it operates and its overall simplicity very much. So much so that ive been in contact with them regarding this machine OR the next in line... At $3850USD and our exchange rate... this is good buying
What's the next one planned?
LOL- they are not saying... but they did put the question out of what EM collectors would like to see remade... whether it helped in the decision or not is another matter, as youd expect, many varied answers.