The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: ROLLERBALL on March 05, 2009, 09:41:38 PM
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Ok may as well start the thread now...
Who knows where this thread will go and how the machine will look at the end of it...
I guess first thing to do is get rid of the Killer wasps from hell nest under the backbox...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS002.jpg)
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Just adds to the machine's Character !
Here's one for the "Metal Heads" ;
I though it was a KISS pinball, not a W.A.S.P Pinball
@@^
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Ok time to get serious now...
Im going to need to get onto this Backglass FAST Im thinking....
Its falling apart down the bottom...It is still holding together somewhat...but just...and the metal strip at the bottom of the glass is rusted pretty badly and not sure if you tried to get it off it may take the paint with it...I hear tripple thick then cling wrap and lay some weights on it to hold it down in place can work??Or mylar it into place??Anyway im after your thoughts guys...dont want to stuff it up...
Pics...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS018.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS019.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS020.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS021.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS022.jpg)
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I guess first thing to do is get rid of the Killer wasps from hell nest under the backbox...
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Here's one for the "Metal Heads" ;
I though it was a KISS pinball, not a W.A.S.P Pinball
Arrrrrrr- Blackie would be proud of you Nino !
( now there is a true metal-heads reply ) *)*
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Hi Paul,
I would not mylar the backglass. Once this is done, you cannot do any touchups to the glass with mylar in place. Some of the other forums suggest that over time the mylar may actually pull more paint away. I think the triple thick would be the way to go.
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Hi Paul,
I would not mylar the backglass. Once this is done, you cannot do any touchups to the glass with mylar in place. Some of the other forums suggest that over time the mylar may actually pull more paint away. I think the triple thick would be the way to go.
I concur.
Mylar also can further damage the backglass as the heat from the globes "warms" the adhesive properties of the mylar. In addition. Mylar shrinks over time and it would end up damaging the glass. I think Gavin might have some ideas here - but I've successfully sealed backglasses using the Marvin's guide and I would recommend that you go down this path VERY SOON. I would not be handing that backglass too much as it looks like the bottom might flake off at any moment.
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If i may chime in.. I think triple thick is definitely the best way to go for sealing backglasses, i've tried other methods but the triple thick has worked better than anything else ive tried. I too have used Triple Thick and the cling wrap method detailed on the Marvin website to repair the kind of damage pictured on this glass successfully.
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Yeah i think the clingwrap way is the go as well....will get onto it asap....probably should leave the rusted metal at the bottom and try and clean it up with it still on do you think??
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Yeah i think the clingwrap way is the go as well....will get onto it asap....probably should leave the rusted metal at the bottom and try and clean it up with it still on do you think??
Paul,
I had a mate restoring a mint Evel Knievel pin and had the same issue with the rusted metal strip. He attempted to take it off and in the process the backglass split in 2. So is it worth the risk? *.*
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Ok..lol..the metal can stay then....will clean as much rust off it as i can after ive fixed the glass...and will hit it with some rust converter then paint it black...
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clean up the rusted metal with a wire brush and then prime it or use some other form of metal protection on it - that metal rail has been there almost thirty years and is unlikely to bdge withour causing major damage
the triple thick is the way to go - works super well - i have used it on glasses that are far worse and have got great results - PM if you have any questions
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For some time I have wondered if you could get a 1mm sheet of Perspex cut to the same size as the rear of the backglass.
Would cost about $40.00
Then place the Perspex sheet over the rear of the BG, mark out the score and credit rectangle area’s.
Remove the Perspex, cut out the score/ credit areas
Put Perspex back onto the rear of the BG.
Then ( and this is the unknown part ) use a high quality tape to ‘tape it’ fully around the edges to the glass.
To try and explain this properly I am only talking about using a strip of tape say around 10 or 12 mm in width, that would run down the edge length of the 2 surfaces and then JUST fold around onto the FRONT of the backglass and the REAR of the Perspex, enabling the Perspex to remain in place pressing against the rear of the backglass and holding it all in place. The visible strip of tape at the front of the backglass ( probably about 3-5mm ) would then be hidden in the channels in the backbox when the whole BG is placed back into the machine. NO TAPE would be touching the rear of the original backglass.
However - I have no idea if the Perspex would bow in the middle or be affected by the heat of the globes in any way.
Yet to try this .
Anyone’s thoughts?
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Not a bad idea...but if the perspex was the same size as the backglass then wouldnt that make it too thick to fit into the backbox channel??
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Not a bad idea...but if the perspex was the same size as the backglass then wouldnt that make it too thick to fit into the backbox channel??
Lets take a look at that this arvo.
Can you also have a hair dryer handy mate
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No worries mate...you going to style my hair for me as well..cool...lol
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Question guy's how do you use triple thick paint when the back glass has large bubbles in it like this has?
In the past with me I have used the mylar method over bubbles and so far works great and you can paint the rear of the mylar where the silk screen is missing. If heat is a issue use LED's.
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I dont think you should remove the metal channel lift as others have already said, could do a lot of damage to the backglass.
i would use triple thick as the triple thick will seep under the flaking and re stick the flakes to the glass when dry.
cheers Ian.
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For some time I have wondered if you could get a 1mm sheet of Perspex cut to the same size as the rear of the backglass.
Would cost about $40.00
Then place the Perspex sheet over the rear of the BG, mark out the score and credit rectangle area’s.
Remove the Perspex, cut out the score/ credit areas
Put Perspex back onto the rear of the BG.
Then ( and this is the unknown part ) use a high quality tape to ‘tape it’ fully around the edges to the glass.
To try and explain this properly I am only talking about using a strip of tape say around 10 or 12 mm in width, that would run down the edge length of the 2 surfaces and then JUST fold around onto the FRONT of the backglass and the REAR of the Perspex, enabling the Perspex to remain in place pressing against the rear of the backglass and holding it all in place. The visible strip of tape at the front of the backglass ( probably about 3-5mm ) would then be hidden in the channels in the backbox when the whole BG is placed back into the machine. NO TAPE would be touching the rear of the original backglass.
However - I have no idea if the Perspex would bow in the middle or be affected by the heat of the globes in any way.
Yet to try this .
Anyone’s thoughts?
Original - I'll give you that !
But I would seal the backglass and prevent further deterioration.
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Damn...Ok Wotto was over today and we chatted for ages about where we should go with this pin...just do the bare minimum get it running and sell it for whatever we can get....or go the whole hog and do a full resto...as the playfield if fully mylared we though just get the crazy rectange piece of mylar around the middle of the playfield off and cleaned up then just do a clean up of sorts...get it working and piss it off...
Well sorry Wotto....
Seems our plan has changed....and fast....
I finished getting the middle section removed and the Mylar just kept lifting...so heaps more came off than I wanted...No way to turm back once that started i guess...so looks like the WHOLE playfield is going to get the mylar removal treatment now...it did come off quite easy...but have lost some small flakes of paint but not too bad really...one spot on the extended hand you can see in the pic...can touch that up with a little black...
Yes the nightmare has started...Thanks for you help/input Wotto...
Im not going to do anymore on the playfield for a bit..maybe strip the playfield on sunday ready to start revoval of the mylar...
pics..
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar001.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar002.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar003.jpg)
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This is a pic of it before ...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISS006.jpg)
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Man- how did that mylar NOT stop at the cut that was already at the bottom of that rectangle?????
I cant imagaine how that would have just kept going !@# !@# !@#
Seriously - take time and patience with doing that whole PF , you dont want to turn a bargain into a nightmare - be VERY patient.
BTW - check your email &&
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Rollerball, I think with the wasp nests and backglass this pin is gunna bring you nothing but trouble.
I will take it off your hands paying you what you paid for it so that your not out of pocket.
Will arrange to pick it up tomorrow. ^&(
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You forgot to mention the problem with the mylar peeling off too much as well. That probably makes it worth not as much as when he started.
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Paul - Send it over to me mate - I'll even pay half the freight costs to Melbourne. It is now an unrepairable disaster.
%.%
Looking Good !
BTW - Be VERY patient with "contact" removal !
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Paul - Send it over to me mate - I'll even pay half the freight costs to Melbourne. It is now an unrepairable disaster.
%.%
Looking Good !
BTW - Be VERY patient with "contact" removal !
Hey, you already have two..isn't that enough :lol or are you after 4 so that you can get each band member to sign one #*#
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Ive had some paint loss...just a couple of small bits here and there....looks like this will be a touch thread as well..lol...not happy...still i guess you would need to be VERY lucky to get a whole playfield of mylar off without taking some paint with it...
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looking at those pics, it aint that bad really. Should be a piece of piss to get that PF back up to scratch.
i said it before and i'll say it again..lucky bastard!! :lol
Seriously though, bloody good score mate. hoping i'll find my own bargain KISS some day, and if i do i hope the backglass and PF are as nice as the ones on you machine #.#
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Removing mylar is dicey at the best of times.
Wow, just noticed the colour registration is a bit off around the 40k/80k/colossal bonus area. The yellow is out of whack. Not sure how common that is.
Good luck with the rest of the removal. Touch ups will be a bitch as it's a very busy piece of art.
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Removing mylar is dicey at the best of times.
Wow, just noticed the colour registration is a bit off around the 40k/80k/colossal bonus area. The yellow is out of whack. Not sure how common that is.
Good luck with the rest of the removal. Touch ups will be a bitch as it's a very busy piece of art.
Great "eye for detail" &&
I had to check my repro playfield - It is registered perfectly !
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Not happy....but probably will look better than with the mylar on...Ive been known to do good touchups...but will see how we go...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar005.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar006.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar007.jpg)
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Don't be discouraged, Paul - These things do happen.
I'm sure other will have a better suggestion that I do - But I think if you can touch it up and seal it, you should be ok.
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this is what scares me about mylar removal, the paint lifting, I need to remove mylar from my HH one day
and it scares the crap out of me.
which method of mylar removal did you use Paul.
cheers Ian
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Damn you and your hair drier Wotto....piss off to the salon..lol...JOKES
was annoying the hell out of me...there HAD to be a better way as i was lifting to much paint...and once it started lifting you couldnt stop it fro peeling off...
..and i found it...
Im just using a Magic Eraser with GOO OFF....
fill up the Magic Eraser with Goo Off and then pull a little on the mylar as you rub up and down the playfield and the front of the Mylar at the same time...WORKS GREAT...and if the paint starts to lift you can push down hard on the paint part thats lifting with the mylar with the Eraser and pull a bit harder and it kind of stops the lift if you know what Im mean...anyway way less lift....Im much happier...
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I had an idea before on mylar removal, the only thing is I have not tested it so cant vouch for its effectiveness.
How a bout leaving the whole playfield in the sun for maybe 15 minutes.
this should heat up the mylar and glue underneath and make it a bit easier to remove.
I wouldn't leave it too long in case it warps.
if that works then all you need to do is remove any glue residue.
Has anyone else tried something similar?
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I did the first lot on my T2 under one of those big double fluro light things. It gave me sunburn and was warm. I don't know if it helped or not. I would be to worried about it warping....
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I had an idea before on mylar removal, the only thing is I have not tested it so cant vouch for its effectiveness.
How a bout leaving the whole playfield in the sun for maybe 15 minutes.
this should heat up the mylar and glue underneath and make it a bit easier to remove.
I wouldn't leave it too long in case it warps.
if that works then all you need to do is remove any glue residue.
Has anyone else tried something similar?
In theory - it should work. ESPECIALLY on older games with "contact" - Not mylar
I choose to do sections so that I am forced to work at a slow pace. I'm an impatient bastard, so I'd probably try to do the entire playfield at once and create myself a disaster !
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Seems Im not the only one that likes the GOO OFF....
http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/mylarremoval.htm
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Is GOO OFF esentially the same as Goo Gone? Where can you buy it?
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I think this resto thread will be closed soon..lol...too much paint comming away with the mylar...Think im just going to try and touchup what ive stuffed and get mick to get the game working and then flog it for what i can...
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I think this resto thread will be closed soon..lol...too much paint comming away with the mylar...Think im just going to try and touchup what ive stuffed and get mick to get the game working and then flog it for what i can...
You are rushing things, Paul. Take a break and re asses. Don't be discouraged with the paint lift, I've done plenty of mylar removals and I've had my fair amount of bad experiences. I did the same thing with a really nice mylared Playboy. Sometimes you can pick a "test spot" and it removes easily - then you move to the bumper areas and paint lifts.
It would be a great experience for you to take your time and repair the lift areas - then continue with the restore.
Just my :2cents:
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Yeah ive been going very slow...just it seems that this playfield doesnt like the mylar....like most older machines Im guessing...lol....
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I've always considered removing the mylar (contact) from my KISS as well. But i've always had this feeling that it seemed to be REALLY stuck down on the playfield compared to other mylared fields that i've seen from the same era.
Perhaps that is because of the hammering this title received in it's day?. Not sure. But this thread pretty much confirms my original thoughts, and i'll certainly be leaving mine alone.
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I've always considered removing the mylar (contact) from my KISS as well. But i've always had this feeling that it seemed to be REALLY stuck down on the playfield compared to other mylared fields that i've seen from the same era.
Perhaps that is because of the hammering this title received in it's day?. Not sure. But this thread pretty much confirms my original thoughts, and i'll certainly be leaving mine alone.
I've read that day 1 mylar can do it as the paint surface is so fresh. I don't know how true this is as Nino's had some amazing results with mylar removal on some well aged machines? I guess you can only go by other peoples experiences....
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Is GOO OFF esentially the same as Goo Gone? Where can you buy it?
Bump! Anyone know?
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Is GOO OFF esentially the same as Goo Gone? Where can you buy it?
Bump! Anyone know?
I've bought a trigger back (large) from Bunnings in the cleaning isle. Safeways also have it last time I checked but in the much smaller bottle. This one was called Oomph - citris based. ALTHOUGH - interesting that some liquid from it remained on the coloured label, which is now gone. Completely removed all text and colour....I cannot read the ingredients to confirm for you sorry.
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I got the goo off at mitre 10...goo gone is the same stuff Im thinking...
DAMN...I hate touchups...
anyway the E C T had been pulled up with the mylar...its the worst touchup Im going to need to do on the playfield...Ive had a go at it...not sure if I will leave it...touch it a bit more..or remove it all and try to get it better....
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/rollerball230967/KISSmylar010.jpg)
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Paul,
Listen mate - the only person that will notice that is you. If you have another meet I bet that KISS will be the hot game in your collection...and a collection that is top shelf.
Keep it going, keep thinking that you DID score a bargain on eBay and that you DID upgrade from Stingray to this. *%*
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New post on this subject - is making a stencil and respraying the way to go here?
Gav, Wotto, Nino and anybody else on AP what do you guys think?
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It looks big in that pic but really its quite small an area...would be hard to make a stencil..
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RB,
Are you planning on mylar for the playfield or CC? I've found some of my artwork touchups look a lot neater under mylar...
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It looks big in that pic but really its quite small an area...would be hard to make a stencil..
Paul,
The point I'm trying to make is - you seem defeated - please keep going on this game. Removing mylar is real hit and miss. Give this game 2 weeks and you will be feeling positive again.
Trust me - have been down this road a hundred times before
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I have given up taking any more mylar off....just not worth it i dont think...the paint on this machine doesnt like it..lol
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i think i would use the freeze spray myself, it just sounds easier. ^&^
cheers Ian
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Try this. when lifting the mylar try pulling it at a full 180 degrees whilst heating it .protect the art work where you have removed the mylar all ready with a thin piece of cardboard to protect the art work from heat.keep moving the cardboard as you go and use more more heat the hotter the better. If you loose art work SHIT HAPPENS you CAN touch up !
Now the art work trying to write letters or staight lines free hand looks crap (sticks out like dogs balls ). The way to make it look professional I use model makers painting tape you get it at a hobbie shop, its yellow in colour and it's great. All you pin guys out there you must buy it ! It comes in different widths 4mm up to 30 mm which is great for dead straight lines. Its also very thin like cig paper and low tack great for back glasses. If you get the 4mm tape use it on the bottom and the front edge of you letter that is damaged , the E for eg ( by the way the tape will arc very easy ) such in the case where you letters are arced. Use a very small art brush, I also use the little paint tins that you can buy at the hobbie shop when your there. Buy a range of colours there cheap and they have heaps of different colours and there turps based if you make a mistake wipe it off with a rag and turps.
So come'on take all the mylar off and touch up the whole playfield. When your finished I would re-mylar the playfield. It will look brand new when your finished.
Ive done heaps of playfields and back glasses If you need help Im here %$%
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New post on this subject - is making a stencil and respraying the way to go here?
Gav, Wotto, Nino and anybody else on AP what do you guys think?
Do you mean the cabinet, Tony ?
Paul - post more pix of the areas you are concerned with.
You probably need to add more heat to the topside of the mylar before removing the mylar. I've been impatient after a few beers and caused some problems before. This takes time.
My Paragon took almost 30 hours to remove the contact.
My Solar Ride took 20 minutes.
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Im not going to keep the KISS anyway..its not a machine I will enjoy playing...Mostly I bought it to make some cash on to buy something else...so If I can get it working and resell it for around $3000 I would be happy...anything more would be a bonus...that guy from ebat tried to go over the top of me and offer $2200 for it not working so $3000 working should be poss...
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Paul was this the plan all along, or has the mylar removal soured you with this machine.
we all get to a point when doing a restore and think what the hell did i start this for.
any way should be a good money maker, good luck with the sale.
cheers Ian
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Was bought to make some cash on really...as Im not a KISS fan and the game looks boring to play....but for $1500 I know what they can go for...so had to grab it....probably my first machine Ive ever bought really just to make some cash on...damn that sounds bad doesnt it...lol...still we have all probably done that at some stage....If it was a Haunted House,Joker poker, or Black Hole it wouldnt be going anywhere in a hurry...lol
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Just my 2c worth, but if its not a keeper and your planning on selling it on, I would not do anything more - ie mylar removal or touchups....I may get flamed here - but me for buying a project - which heaps and heaps of pin fans out there I'm sure would want to see a beast in her original state, not touched up etc...I prefer to see in her original uglyness.....warts and all.
Or......go the whole hog, send cab and playfield off to Flipper Rescue - spend the cash knowing you'll get it back and have it fully restored.. I'm sure you can do all the electrics and furniture....then sell her for $5 - $7k.
There will be people out there willing to spend BIG $$ getting her back to original glory....
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yea i would have got it going and give it a bit of a clean up to sell.
leaving the mylar and touch ups for the next owner.
cheers Ian
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Thats what Im doing...Its off to the pin doctor today...may get it on ebay this weekend...what do you think??Starting price at $1 ??
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same old joke " ill take it for a dollar " :lol :lol
But there is already two kiss pins on ebay already
cheers Ian
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Yeah maybe a good time though as I would be happy with $3000 for mine not $7000 so may get more interest...
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If only i had a few grand to spare... id be offering it to you for this machine and giving it a good home and some TLC
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Yeah Mitch, I'd love to see one of your resto's on this one. ^^^
cheers Steve.
ps: I'm still amazed at your resto on the Dracula ,like I said before , I did see & play it when it was for sale & the transformation is unbelievable.
Well done. @@*
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Yeah maybe a good time though as I would be happy with $3000 for mine not $7000 so may get more interest...
Paul,
Why not put BIN at 3K and see how you go?
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That will walk out the door at 3k, you dont even need to have it playable.
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How much is a repro KISS playfield (if you can still get them)? I believe IPB may have some.
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IMO the KISS pin isn't as collectable (and therefore worth as much) as it was around 5 years ago. Once KISS reformed with Ace and Peter collectors of KISS memorabilia were paying through the nose. The hype for the band is a shadow of what it was then.
Prove me wrong Paul *%*
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IMO the KISS pin isn't as collectable (and therefore worth as much) as it was around 5 years ago. Once KISS reformed with Ace and Peter collectors of KISS memorabilia were paying through the nose. The hype for the band is a shadow of what it was then.
Prove me wrong Paul *%*
Yes Tony - there was a massive amount of interest in all KISS memorabilia when the original four reformed, and some of the shows I saw were simply "mind blowing". The demand for the pin was also at an "all time high" and I was offerred $5,000 for one of mine - not working / not reconditioned / not restored. Crazy money.
Wait until they finally disband. Thats when the value will go through the roof.
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Wait until they finally disband. Thats when the value will go through the roof.
I have this funny feeling they NEVER will disband. I can see Gene and Paul recruiting replacements for themselves down the track. Sounds far fetched, but wouldn't put it past them :)
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Seems I may have found my next KEEPER pin...Im 100% sure It will be In my garage hopefully before the end of next week...And this time not even Wotto is going to be in on the secret....well until after his QLD holiday..
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Wait until they finally disband. Thats when the value will go through the roof.
I have this funny feeling they NEVER will disband. I can see Gene and Paul recruiting replacements for themselves down the track. Sounds far fetched, but wouldn't put it past them :)
I think you are right on the money Rod !
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Seems I may have found my next KEEPER pin...Im 100% sure It will be In my garage hopefully before the end of next week...And this time not even Wotto is going to be in on the secret....well until after his QLD holiday..
Hey Paul, Did you just hit Buy it Now ? If so , it Looks nice. *%*
cheers Steve
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OK, give us a hint...
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Hey Paul, Did you just hit Buy it Now ? If so , it Looks nice. *%*
cheers Steve
Wow. yep, now that's pretty sweet!
Nice detective work Steve ;)
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DAMN...cant keep anything from you guys...
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looks like a nice multi-level machine comin your way Paul
#*#
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Ah, the Black Hole, is it?