The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: coon82 on November 09, 2012, 10:10:17 PM
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This was one of the topics David Stein raised during his guest seminar at the recent Pinball Expo 2012.
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2012/index.html
The following list are the most popular pinballs based on actual sales and requested orders over the last 3 years . Is anyone surprised by any of the results?
High Speed 2 - The Getaway
Fish Tales
Doctor Who
Indiana Jones
The Addams Family
Whitewater
Batman - The Dark Knight
Spider-Man
The Simpsons Pinball Party
Terminator 2
Star Wars (DE)
For those that haven't done so if you have a chance it's worth listening to the audio of his speech.
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Im suprised to see Dr WHO in there and not IJ or TZ
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I'm not surprised at all. But it is not an accurate summation at all. Where's the EMs and SS ?
A "request list" and ACTUAL sales list" are two different things all together.
Top 10 Pinball requests that I have had over the past two years ;
1. KISS
2. Fathom
3. Cirqus Voltaire
3. Adams Family
4. Paragon
5. Guns N Roses
6. Fireball
7. ST TNG
8. Creature From the Black Lagoon
9. Terminator 3
10. Beat Time
Honorable Mentions - Joker Poker, Jacks Open, Medusa, Viking, Viper, Funhouse, Medieval Madness, Diner..
I've never been asked for Spiderman, Batman or High Speed 2.
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I think its based on what stock they could buy in and flick off again .
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I think its based on what stock they could buy in and flick off again .
I'd give a :lol for that, but it's probably true!!
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10. Beat Time
Wierd request, some beatles fans around? not a fan of the 'angular artwork' around that period
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didnt know WOZ had hit the market yet... who's got one?
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10. Beat Time
Wierd request, some beatles fans around? not a fan of the 'angular artwork' around that period
Absolutely. In fact, Gavin asked me to locate this title the other day. It is a very sought after title. A bit like Nugent. Owners don't part with this game, and collectors ask for it quite a lot.
It is more of a marketing ploy to "convince" an audience that DMD's are in higher demand, and that the DMDs outsell all other formats. That's simply untrue. Only 5 years ago, dealers would not go near EMs - Lame excuses were - "Can't get parts", "too hard to fix" or "no one knows how to repair them"..
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It also depends on the buyer
is it someone wanting to buy something he played when he was younger?
is it someone buying just the one game for the rumpus room?
is it a hobyest like US (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=4301.0)?
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A "request list" and ACTUAL sales list" are two different things all together.
^This.
How many Batman machines are they actually selling when Stern only made around 1200 of them? It's like saying Iron Man/Family Guy is one our best sellers when they made so few and are scarce at best. !@#
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Yes, but isnt it true that DMD does outsell all other formats and arent DMD machines the most popular sold machine in Australia.
100 containers have been brought into Australia in the last 3 or 4 years, and 80 to 90 percent of all the containers that I have ever seen are always full of DMD machines..with little of anything else.
Batman - Stern was probably asked for alot because the cabinet art was absolutely awesome, and I can see why alot of newbies/first time buyers would want one for their gamesrooms for sure. I think it is a bit different in each state. In QLD, 99 percent of collectors have 99 percent of machines being DMD from what I have seen in my travels over 4 or more yrs... Also, with DMD machines being much more modern, it is likely that u will attract newbies to the market with the latest technology being DMD than other older formats. I thought the Bumper list was pretty spot on as a general DMD list.
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That's from only one seller, and I'm sure each seller has different clients, I doubt that is reflection on aus wide, you would get a better idea of popular machines in Australia by this forum owner list
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Yes, but isnt it true that DMD does outsell all other formats and arent DMD machines the most popular sold machine in Australia.
100 containers have been brought into Australia in the last 3 or 4 years, and 80 to 90 percent of all the containers that I have ever seen are always full of DMD machines..with little of anything else.
Batman - Stern was probably asked for alot because the cabinet art was absolutely awesome, and I can see why alot of newbies/first time buyers would want one for their gamesrooms for sure. I think it is a bit different in each state. In QLD, 99 percent of collectors have 99 percent of machines being DMD from what I have seen in my travels over 4 or more yrs... Also, with DMD machines being much more modern, it is likely that u will attract newbies to the market with the latest technology being DMD than other older formats. I thought the Bumper list was pretty spot on as a general DMD list.
100 containers is way off the mark. There's no way of pinpointing how many arrive, but it it not that high. I'm not sure if 80% are in fact ALL DMD machines, it may well be, but there's a good reason why it is so high and it is NOT "demand" for DMDs, it is because Dealers target Addams Family, Twilight Zone etc etc. Dealers don't have the expertise to recondition SS or EMs. It is also not economical to attempt this kind of work.
Here's an example ;
Addams Family - Would take 30 hours to do properly. Under 20 Hours is simply taking short cuts like not replacing pop bumper assemblies, not replacing faulty globe holders or not rebuilding assemblies. This work is not undertaken to ensure there are service calls in the future. To replace parts is optional, as most would be good. Ramps are always a problem - so replace them. So with a minimum effort, a quick return and high profit.
Eight Ball - Would take 30 - 40 hours to do properly. 100-120 hours for a full restore including repaint. Firstly, there no dealers out there with the necessary skills to do the job properly within the maximum 30 hours they would be prepared to spend. More effort required = less profit. Not economically viable.
So from a PROFIT point of view - It is MUCH easier to find an Addams Family, and put less effort with maximum profit. Therefore, it is within the interest of a Dealer to AVOID SS and EM machines, or, sell them as projects. It is just not economically viable. So there's the 80% Brett mentions. However, it does not represent the DEMAND for the EMs and SS. Up until 5 years ago - NO ONE was bringing them in. That is a fact. The ONLY SS and EMs were "container fillers" - that were freebies (unless they were KISS or Playboy).
DMDs will ALWAYS outsell SS and EM. That is only because dealers target them. That's the bottom line.
But in the last 10-15 years, there has been an increased demand in SS and EMs. I've often come across collectors looking for DMDs, and when they find out that they can buy SS or EM, they quickly re assess their option - "Oh so you DO know how to fix them" ? Most importers don't know their product, and don't cover all eras.
Case in point - My Facebook Business page has been up for a week. I've highlighted DMDs, SS and EMs. The FIRST request was for a Bally KISS. The requests to restore or source are in order SS, DMD and then EM.
The comment "80% of the containers imported are DMDs" has NOTHING to do with DEMAND. It is what the importer has targeted. It is also what the importer WANTS you to believe. Another point to consider is the saturation of DMDs. While dealers / importers complete they lose market share of the SS and EMs. All comes down to product knowledge. My strategy has always been the SS and EM market, and funnily enough, the demand for SS machines is higher than DMD. EMs are not as high.
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A mate of mine has done apx nine containers, pinshed would have double that, mark has done a dozen min, bike city has done dozen, wayne has done close to ten, that's fifty containers already, plus oscars ten, Ddaz has done four plus, plus oz pinball has done seven plus, amd does one hundred machines a year, that's prob a dozen in five years, game works has done five, Kenny priest has done apx eight, another guy in qld has done three I know of, judge boz in Adelaide has done two or three, plus ninos two or three, the list goes on, it's easily gets to over one hundred containers.....u wouldn't think so but it adds up very very quickly.....
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It's all about the money money money ()
IMO Nino's on the money .
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yep, dmd machines to importers meansd more $$/profit...
Ninos points are spot on about demand for older games, cause whilst newbies might go for dmd, most experienced collectors/players will always want to buy SS and older as well to have a varied mix of all eras......
dmd containers are rarely all pre-sold before arriving, but containers full of SS and EM usually are pretty much sold out b4 the container lands, if not sold very very soon thereafter.....
I only have the one x Phoenix 1978 machine (over and above all the dmd titles) but I wouldnt ever sell the Phoenix because older games are much harder to replace, and have alot more sentimental value to us 40 plus year olds. Its only when u stick a dmd machine next to a SS game or wahtever, do they compliment each other and really highlight each others differences and strengths. I often call pre dmd machines pure pinball, because its all about making the right shots without all the distractions.
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And thats why I have a bunch of Woodrails and Wedge heads heading over because I love the purity and the nostalgia they radiant.
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And thats why I have a bunch of Woodrails and Wedge heads heading over because I love the purity and the nostalgia they radiant.
Well done Tony, will be great to see more info on this when the time is close. Excellent. ^^^
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A mate of mine has done apx nine containers, pinshed would have double that, mark has done a dozen min, bike city has done dozen, wayne has done close to ten, that's fifty containers already, plus oscars ten, Ddaz has done four plus, plus oz pinball has done seven plus, amd does one hundred machines a year, that's prob a dozen in five years, game works has done five, Kenny priest has done apx eight, another guy in qld has done three I know of, judge boz in Adelaide has done two or three, plus ninos two or three, the list goes on, it's easily gets to over one hundred containers.....u wouldn't think so but it adds up very very quickly.....
i recon it comes down simply to your clients as to what pins would be requested. but i still recon the best judge of what is popular or not would be looking at the list of pins people own on this forum, there is data here already to get that idea. i notice pinball shed is taking a whiles to move on data east and sterns atm, most of the gtb and bally ss games and bally dmds and sys11s he had are almost gone from that last container
but i bet what a importer sells and doesnt sell would vary week to week. he said he had months on end where zacs would out sell dmd's and sys11's. then dmds would be better sellers, then old ss bally's would be best sellers.
I personally recon DMD's get swapped out more often from collections than ss's and sys11. i do think dmd's would sell the most often but are kept the least in a lineup, i have had more trouble trying to find sys11 titles i want than i have dmd's, most of the sys11s i wont that are held in collections not on ebay.
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And thats why I have a bunch of Woodrails and Wedge heads heading over because I love the purity and the nostalgia they radiant.
I salute you, Tony !
My next two containers are mainly rare and collectible SS, EMs and only a handful of DMDs. Included is a HUO Bally "Fireball" which only collectors would appreciate the value. Straight into my private collection !
^^^
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That's from only one seller, and I'm sure each seller has different clients, I doubt that is reflection on aus wide, you would get a better idea of popular machines in Australia by this forum owner list
I agree with the above comment! But I wonder how many non forum members are out there with pinballs versus forum members?
Peter
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That's from only one seller, and I'm sure each seller has different clients, I doubt that is reflection on aus wide, you would get a better idea of popular machines in Australia by this forum owner list
I agree with the above comment! But I wonder how many non forum members are out there with pinballs versus forum members?
Peter
id say lots,
so it wouldnt be 100% but surely would be more accurate than going off what just one seller has found.
but in saying that we have pretty vast number of people here buying from a vast number of pinball dealers and private, so id recon it would be enough numbers to get a prety good data of the most popular machines by numbers of people owning them.
i would think many of those titles would be towards the top end, but i do recon there would be a a few older games in that list. just from what i have seen people with around this forum and what they are working on atm
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That's from only one seller, and I'm sure each seller has different clients, I doubt that is reflection on aus wide, you would get a better idea of popular machines in Australia by this forum owner list
I agree with the above comment! But I wonder how many non forum members are out there with pinballs versus forum members?
Peter
id say lots,
so it wouldnt be 100% but surely would be more accurate than going off what just one seller has found.
but in saying that we have pretty vast number of people here buying from a vast number of pinball dealers and private, so id recon it would be enough numbers to get a prety good data of the most popular machines by numbers of people owning them.
i would think many of those titles would be towards the top end, but i do recon there would be a a few older games in that list. just from what i have seen people with around this forum and what they are working on atm
Yep I agree one seller isn't a fair gauge on what's popular and what's not we probably won't ever know the true percentage, it always amazes me how it's hard to find certain games although they made thousands of them :-) and where I work there's 3 blokes that have pinballs that aren't on forums they just have games in there games room.
Peter
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I agree with the above comment! But I wonder how many non forum members are out there with pinballs versus forum members?
Peter
And there's the rub. Non forum members are going to be heading to the nearest dealer for advice and they are going to recommend whatever they have sitting on the floor as "the must have pinball machine" so it is going to skew results to some extent.
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That's from only one seller, and I'm sure each seller has different clients, I doubt that is reflection on aus wide, you would get a better idea of popular machines in Australia by this forum owner list
I agree with the above comment! But I wonder how many non forum members are out there with pinballs versus forum members?
Peter
Some of the biggest collectors I know of are not forum participants, and they have been around a long time to know the tricks of the trade. I know some collectors who love pinball, and only buy of reputable sellers - but they don't have time for forums, or are not forum savvy.
Newbies that don't do their homework are the unfortunate victims of the old trick - "Rare and collectible" for only the games on "their" showroom floor.