The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Pinball Mods => Stern => Topic started by: Caveoftreasures on November 14, 2012, 07:52:07 PM
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A NEW Stern REDEMPTION kit has just been posted on the Stern website
http://www.sternpinball.com/Games/pinball-redemption-kit.aspx
It bolts onto the side of the machine ?....
Anyway, its out, but looks a little BIG...I thought maybe some sort of coindoor version may have been better but they have teamed up with a company who already has the hardware made so thats the answer for it being square n bulky I guess...
If u buy a 2nd hand machine oneday, and it has bolt holes on the RHS of the cabinet, you will know it had a ticket dispenser perhaps...lol
Things are moving forward. ^^^
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*!@
They never quite get it right though do they.. why it doesnt come through the coin door is beyond me... it gets bolted to the side!
Stern does it again!
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maybe the designer wants kids to see that there is a shitload of tickets to be won, hence getting kids over to play it...its probably smart to heavily feature it to young kids by making it blatant...
(also just noticed, a few members (swinksy n amusements) have quickly mentioned this new ticket dispenser on another few posts,
.....sorry, didnt see that before i just posted this thread up.....)
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great minds think alike as I listed this in the innovations thread a few minutes after you started this thread without knowing - lol
I agree Gav, even a under cabinet mounted so it sits flat and no permanent holes through the cabinet, use a key to unlock and a drawer slides out to put more tickets in. Nah lets put some holes in the side and cover the art ????
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*!@
They never quite get it right though do they.. why it doesnt come through the coin door is beyond me... it gets bolted to the side!
Stern does it again!
hahaha I thought the same thing when I saw this posted on their Facebook this morning. Let's obstruct that side art with a horrible looking box on the side. Not to mention adding width to a row of machines and obstructing access.
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maybe the designer wants kids to see that there is a shitload of tickets to be won, hence getting kids over to play it...its probably smart to heavily feature it to young kids by making it blatant...
Love the optimism Cavey but truth be known...
......its dumb..
...DOH!
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LOL
they give you a plug kit to fill in the holes.....that will keep the resale value !!@
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Stern are making cabinet decals avail now for most of the latest Sterns via application to the Stern dealer u purchased from....
when i buy my next BNIB machine, I will be ordering a set for each of acdc pro, x men pro n avengers.
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*!@
They never quite get it right though do they.. why it doesnt come through the coin door is beyond me... it gets bolted to the side!
Stern does it again!
so close but no cigar, a stuffup of a long overdue idea imo,
how big was that reel from your bowling game ? recon you would need to bolt it to the side of the pinball? maybe i can build them a coin door that holds a reel.
bolt the bastard to the floor, where your coins draw is, have a slot in the coin door to let the tickets out, and use the coin door as a cover for the ugly mech, put a nice decal on the door to say redemption machine, HOW HARD IS THAT? seriously stern do you want an every day bloke like me to show you how to do simple fabrication?
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Apparently the original reel was too small as the tickets ran out too quick and so the op put in a bigger one. Everything was hidden behind the door and the slot where the tickets came out had removable TICKETS decals if you wanted it for home use.
1 slot coins... 1 slot tickets.
The game wouldnt be as deep as a modern pin either and seeing as all Stern boards are in the header im still struggling to see how they came up with the placement for this.
I mean good on them for doing it but FFS... who the hell thought it was well executed??
BTW... boards in my TEN STRIKE are in the bottom of the cabinet and with the shallower profile there was still room for coin slot, ticket redemption mechs etc
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Apparently the original reel was too small as the tickets ran out too quick and so the op put in a bigger one. Everything was hidden behind the door and the slot where the tickets came out had removable TICKETS decals if you wanted it for home use.
1 slot coins... 1 slot tickets.
The game wouldnt be as deep as a modern pin either and seeing as all Stern boards are in the header im still struggling to see how they came up with the placement for this.
I mean good on them for doing it but FFS... who the hell thought it was well executed??
BTW... boards in my TEN STRIKE are in the bottom of the cabinet and with the shallower profile there was still room for coin slot, ticket redemption mechs etc
it is good for pinball in modern arcades, and at least kids will have better fun with a pinball spewing tickets than they would from a basket ball game spuin tickets. its also good its optional and means a machine can be upgraded with a kit, i think that is how it should be, makes sense. but a bit more thought could have been put into it.
I honestly dont know why this hasn't been done before, but to me that system they have just looked at a catalog at a external ticket machine and then thought that will do.
it looks like a rushed idea and plucked out of the air and they have just started selling the first idea that came into their head.
the fact its a photoshop i have feeling it hasn't even been made yet.
when was this released??
it certainly leaves room for some one to design and sell a better redemption setup, the stupid part is this system has almost created a NEED for a better positioned ticket system.
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I honestly dont know why this hasn't been done before, but to me that system they have just looked at a catalog at a external ticket machine and then thought that will do.
Remember that Stern and innovation thread we were talking about? #@#
It has been done before by you know who.....
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-14365
Anyway, I think the "in your face" placement of the dispenser is a good idea to be honest. Get those pins back onsite into the Chuck E Cheese outlets with a renewed focus primarily as a redemption machine and there is that new generation "being made aware of and changing the perception of pinball" I was talking about.
WOZ should do the same with the standard edition units - and it is a lot more family friendly than a lot of Sterns titles (and thus more palatable to the Chuck E Cheese demographic.).
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theres only one SLIGHT problem with all of this...the demographic for people who collect tickets to cash in at the counter to get prizes, are children usually aged 12 yrs and younger....(who are the most less likely to play a pinball machine that they cant even see the playfield properly...
with that ticket dispenser model, they shld include a fold out step that is attached n screwed under the front of the Pinball machine...then a video tutorial teaching the young kids what a pinball machine is, how to play, and what the aim is.lol (the fixed step is sarcastic ofcourse.lol)
also, lets aim at adults (18 yrs n older) cause adults have money to buy pins etc....not little children unless mum n dad slip them a quick $20 etc...unless the pinball machine is the only arcade item onsite, the kids will walk past if more often that not..this industry and its marketing makes no sense to me and is completely and utterly upside down...
one day in Australia, someone might do something modern.... *!@
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theres only one SLIGHT problem with all of this...the demographic for people who collect tickets to cash in at the counter to get prizes, are children usually aged 12 yrs and younger....(who are the most less likely to play a pinball machine that they cant even see the playfield properly...
with that ticket dispenser model, they shld include a fold out step that is attached n screwed under the front of the Pinball machine...then a video tutorial teaching the young kids what a pinball machine is, how to play, and what the aim is.lol
also, lets aim at adults (18 yrs n older) cause adults have money....not little children unless mum n dad slip them a quick $20 etc...unless the pinball machine is the only arcade item onsite, the kids will walk past if more often that not..this industry and its marketing makes no sense to me and is completely and utterly upside down...
one day in Australia, someone might do something modern.... *!@
i went to the arcade at bald hills last night, didnt see a single kid playing any machine, most were young couples. and whilest you might not like the redemption then thats fine give the tickets to a kid.
i played a tonne of redemption machines last night. its a bit of a bonus to play pinball, this does make it more appealing for teens imo,
if redemption machines only targeted people with no money then arcades wouldn't be full of redemption machines, i doubt to many kids could have punched the punch bag that was 5 feet off the ground, or lifted the hammer to hit the strength tester. most of the redemption machines i played last night no little kid would have been ale to play due to hight.
but i should state i have a little foot step in my shop so a kid can watch or play the pinball. lol
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Look upon it this way... arcades are more likely to site a pin with a redemption feature. My 1957 replica took good coin onsite with its ticket feature.
When i go into an arcade if on my own, ill win some tickets and give them to the nearest kid who dont look like a little toe-rag.
Kids will play it, the amount of kids at Pinfest was unreal.. all of them loved the pinnies.
Pinball will do much much better onsite with a ticket feature.. adults will play it and give the tickets away.
Its a winner for sure, just a wierd way to go about it
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Look upon it this way... arcades are more likely to site a pin with a redemption feature. My 1957 replica took good coin onsite with its ticket feature.
When i go into an arcade if on my own, ill win some tickets and give them to the nearest kid who dont look like a little toe-rag.
Kids will play it, the amount of kids at Pinfest was unreal.. all of them loved the pinnies.
Pinball will do much much better onsite with a ticket feature.. adults will play it and give the tickets away.
Its a winner for sure, just a wierd way to go about it
i think this is pretty correct.
realistically a ticket reel wouldn't put off a seasoned pinball player, but as stated it is an odd way to go about doing this.
ruining the machine would make a few angry by drilling holes in the side, to accommodate the addon. i think they should rethink this idea they have and compromise on this feature and rectify its current state of being a good feature done half arsed to a feature that is good and done correctly.
Stern if you are looking, put it the reel in the door and include a special door with the kit. be more attractive for an arcade if they have that extra bit of resale value to their machine when its removed, as im sure most ex arcade games end up in homes, a few drill holes in a machine would kill its value by allot even with a few bungs to cover them.
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Probably getting a bit picky here but, hopefully the actual weight of the dispenser is not considerable because then the machine is unbalanced when I comes to the art if nudging. Right side could require more effort to nudge and remembering to account for adding that extra power without triggering a tilt.
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its fugly, but prob the cheapest, and easiest way possible. I guess its an optional extra, and not all sites will suit redemption. I doubt that we will see many sold here.
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Call me old fashioned or whatever you like but I simply don't like the idea of redemption tickets at all let alone on a pinball machine and especially stuck onto the side of the cabinet like it was done as an after thought - oh that's right, it is an after thought.
It looks shite. It is targetted at kids who aren't going to understand the depth of some of Stern's rule sets. I wouldn't let my kids spend $2 for a 3 ball game that will probably last less than a minute. I wouldn't play it myself either just out of principle.
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It could be as simple as the tickets could be swapped for crap at the counter or credit back on the Time Zone card which you can then reuse for more games, teenagers and adults would go for that I am sure. The pinnie could be set for a free game on match and get to certain set points or every 20 million gets you a ticket worth 20 cents credit.
Timezone could have a permanent platform for a 1 or 2 pins for kids only to entice them to play. I don't think kids would understand the rules as long as they can see the ball go around and bash it.
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Personally I would forget about Timezone and teenagers. Timezone is old school and today's teenagers have the attention span of a goldfish and will be bored and move on from a pinball machine in 10 minutes to check their Iphone/update their Facebook status and will not be back to play again.
The tween market and even younger is where your new market is. Their overindulgent parents will provide the money source in order to keep them quiet for a few hours of peace.
Stern's next pinball should be a Ben-10 Alien Force pinball machine, you put a ticket dispenser on the side, some flashing RGB LED lights as a topper that regularly go off even when inactive, and enable the ability to have an attract mode that plays actual soundbytes from the cartoon to capture attention.
You site said machine in a Playcafe adventure centre where bored middle class housewives spend quite literally hours drinking mochachinos while their kids go crazy in the game room. Behind the coffee serving counter on the back wall you put rows of cheap action figures and toys all the way up to a top of the range Nintendo DS handheld (this will be the ultimate attainable prize).
Attach a neon sign with:
(COLLECT TICKETS BY PLAYING GAMES AND WIN THESE PRIZES!!!!)
The items on the back shelf can only be bought with redemption tickets - 10 tickets for a Ben 10 figure all the way up to 10,000 tickets for the Nintendo DS handheld.
The kids will nag and nag that they want that toy, and keep coming back to Mum/Dad for more money to spend to attain it, and the parent will cave in and indulge them just to keep them quiet.
This will need some good cooperation with the site manager so a decent profit share package will need to be in place - the offshoot is that the site manager may take a bit more interest in the cleanliness/functionality of the machine itself (unlike your typical pub pin).
Don't thank me Stern, just send me a cheque instead. &&
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he neon sign alone would bring em in! ()
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Not trying to be negative but it would be cheaper for me to go and buy my kids whatever was on the redemption shelf. Kids don't want to go to the playcentres once they get to 8 or 9, it isn't cool anymore. I have a machine at a playcentre and the people who put the most money through it are the owners who try to keep their own kids amused during the weekend or school holidays.
Anyway, I hope it is a success somewhere and pinball is the winner.
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Not trying to be negative but it would be cheaper for me to go and buy my kids whatever was on the redemption shelf.
Yes, I know, but every year without fail you see people down sideshow alley at the Royal Show playing those overpriced clown/boatrace/coin toss games to win cheap novelty items that could be bought in a $2 shop and spending 10 times what the item is worth playing the game itself.
They key is to convince punters to think less about the actual value of the item itself and focus primarily on the challenge aspect instead.
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Im with Pinsanity on this... go to SunnyBank Plaza on the weekend, the arcade is absolute chaos!
My boy loves his DS etc... but he loves those tickets too... nothing like winning something even if we know its a piece of crap
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Im with Pinsanity on this... go to SunnyBank Plaza on the weekend, the arcade is absolute chaos!
My boy loves his DS etc... but he loves those tickets too... nothing like winning something even if we know its a piece of crap
i spent $70 two nights ago, to walk away with $10 worth of shit from the arcades thanks to tickets, was a great night out with the missus, the place was packed. i dont care about the fact i spent $70 for a few bits of cheap crap, i did after all had a fantastic time the crap toy is a bonus, thats why its good for pinball imo. give some one that little bonus to play it. and the pinball should be more popular than the other games because at least the pinball is fun to play.
anything with a ticket machine had a person attached to it.
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anything with a ticket machine had a person attached to it.
And that's why I say keep the dispenser as gaudy and prominent as possible (at least for onsite machines that are geared up as dedicated redemption locations).
From a 10 year old kids viewpoint, you put a discreet dispenser in the coin door and it stops being a redemption machine and turns back into a "plain old" pinball machine.
It is all moot anyway, since the machines they build have to be geared to appeal to that market and Stern cannot (or more likely will not) risk alienating or losing their ACDC demographic.
I am talking about getting machines back on site (non traditional sites) and making money again, not having a micro run of 200-300 machines go into homes and getting swapped/traded/sold between collectors every 12 months.
From a strictly business manufacturing standpoint, there is all the potential for growth in the former and simply no long term future for the latter.
WOZ's broad, multi-generational appeal is probably the closest we will get.
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anything with a ticket machine had a person attached to it.
And that's why I say keep the dispenser as gaudy and prominent as possible (at least for onsite machines that are geared up as dedicated redemption locations).
From a 10 year old kids viewpoint, you put a discreet dispenser in the coin door and it stops being a redemption machine and turns back into a "plain old" pinball machine.
It is all moot anyway, since the machines they build have to be geared to appeal to that market and Stern cannot (or more likely will not) risk alienating or losing their ACDC demographic.
I am talking about getting machines back on site (non traditional sites) and making money again, not having a micro run of 200-300 machines go into homes and getting swapped/traded/sold between collectors every 12 months.
From a strictly business manufacturing standpoint, there is all the potential for growth in the former and simply no long term future for the latter.
WOZ's broad, multi-generational appeal is probably the closest we will get.
why would a dispenser in the coin door be discrete?? it would stand out like dogs balls if done correctly even more so than stuck to only one side of a pinball, thats tucked in a corner or between other machines.
i doubt the kids see the pinball boring when they throw a ball up a ramp on another redemtion game for a few tickets. this would be honestly the most entertaining redemtion machine in any arcade, go into your local arcade and see what games are redemtion games. lol, the only reason they play those other games that are very dull is because it spews out tickets, now if a fun game like pinball spewed out tickets that would be the best redemption game in the building. hands down.
as i stated before a majority of those games in arcades arent really targeting kids, i dont know to many kids that spend $70 in a night at an arcade, there were plenty of people between 18- and 30 every time i go to the arcades which is often. there are kids games sure,
My idea of the ticket spool is mostly to attract people to it originally so people give the game a chance. as every one knows once you play pinball its addictive. its a matter of getting people to play it first and give them a reason to do it first.
and it doesnt change the demographic it actually expands it.
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anything with a ticket machine had a person attached to it.
And that's why I say keep the dispenser as gaudy and prominent as possible (at least for onsite machines that are geared up as dedicated redemption locations).
From a 10 year old kids viewpoint, you put a discreet dispenser in the coin door and it stops being a redemption machine and turns back into a "plain old" pinball machine.
It is all moot anyway, since the machines they build have to be geared to appeal to that market and Stern cannot (or more likely will not) risk alienating or losing their ACDC demographic.
I am talking about getting machines back on site (non traditional sites) and making money again, not having a micro run of 200-300 machines go into homes and getting swapped/traded/sold between collectors every 12 months.
From a strictly business manufacturing standpoint, there is all the potential for growth in the former and simply no long term future for the latter.
WOZ's broad, multi-generational appeal is probably the closest we will get.
why would a dispenser in the coin door be discrete?? it would stand out like dogs balls if done correctly even more so than stuck to only one side of a pinball, thats tucked in a corner.
i doubt the kids see the pinball boring when they throw a ball up a ramp on another redemtion game for a few tickets. this would be honestly the most entertaining redemtion machine in any arcade, go into your local arcade and see what games are redemtion games. lol, the only reason they play those other games that are very dull is because it spews out tickets, now if a fun game like pinball spewed out tickets that would be the best redemption game in the building. hands down.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a dispenser where the majority of the innards are inside the coin door and the machine simply spits out a ticket through a slot in the door. ^^^
Pinball machines themselves are boring to a 10 year old:
1. Unless the theme catches their initial attention to draw them over
2. And then in order to convince them to part with their money they need to be shown that a tangible reward is possible (tickets/toy). You do this by advertising it primarily as a redemption machine (neon, an obtrusive ticket dispenser etc). Marketing it on its merits as a pinball machine isn't going to be enough to this demographic.
The focus needs to change to being a redemption first and a pinball second.
The possibility of a high score just isn't going to cut it, anymore. *%*
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i doubt the targeted audience at an arcade is 10 year olds, there are games for kids thats for sure, but every time i go, its more so people between 18-30. and people in that age, eg me, are happy to part with the cash for a good night out. allot of the games there seem to suggest thats the case bar a few kids style games for family's.
but for kids not liking pinball?? well i recon 60% of the customers that play our store pinball is a woman with a ten year old, they usually both play them, the rest are 18-50 year old males
it is interesting that the kid spots the machine, and asks the mother what it is, and the mother plays a game usually saring the game with the kid, if that happens once its a good bet the same happens the next time they return to the shop. i had to put a kids step at the foot of the machine so the kids could play and stopped them climbing on the chairs. i think pinball is interesting to kids as they cant understand how it works.
it will be interesting and i really do hope this can bring more pinball into arcades.
its really not an addon that will matter to us so much other than hopefully see an increase of pinballs in arcades. due to attractiveness of a better money earner for operators. but as you say there needs to be more innovation for other demographics also. and i doubt we will see it from stern unless this JJP project puts a bee up their arse.
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The demographic for pinball machines is adults, plain n simple...arcades already with ticket dispensing will help pinball machines to stay there with ticket dispensers added etc, but in the scheme of things, 70 percent of pin sales are now to home users. The days of siting machines are over...all operators I have met are saying they are not making money on a $7,000 pinny purchase for the returns they are/arent getting.
Just go to a Timezone (the biggest and best in Australasia is here in QLD just 10 minutes away at Surfers) and u see that 18 yr olds plus, but mostly 30 ish old people or 45 yr old parents play the pinballs. Kids rarely even stop or play unless the parent has a go, and then, the attention span is less than 5 minutes tops. 30 yrs ago, when computers n video games werent invented, different story. All the arcades shut for a reason.
Pinball machines are not fun enough in any way shape or form for young kids compared to what they have to chose from. Just go to a proper Timezone, look at what unbelievable machiney is on offer, and u quickly see that there are many many things that kids will play well before pinball. The fact that 99 percent of people in the place dont even know, or have ever seen a pinball doesnt help.
The ticket dispenser will help, but it aint going to set the world on fire..it might help the arcade operator let the pinball operator leave it there for another 12 months, til the play figures come back.
At least Stern has had a go. The future is home use everywhere in the world...if thats your strongest market, build on it, work it to the bone, do everything to grow that segment because the operator market has and will continue to die a slow death.
Clever marketing to the home market will replace the operator market inside of 3 yrs if someone with some nouse got involved and started thinking 2012 and 2020 versus 1980.lol
p.s - someone said WOZ was a broad market appeal machine...only if you visit old persons homes, cause only 70 yr old people were around when the movie came out....how old is Jack from JJP the boss, close to 65 yrs probably...point made...
The wizard of who ??.....replied the mass market of 2013.
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The demographic for pinball machines is adults, plain n simple...arcades already with ticket dispensing will help pinball machines to stay there with ticket dispensers added etc, but in the scheme of things, 70 percent of pin sales are now to home users. The days of siting machines are over...all operators I have met are saying they are not making money on a $7,000 pinny purchase for the returns they are/arent getting.
Just go to a Timezone (the biggest and best in Australasia is here in QLD just 10 minutes away at Surfers) and u see that 18 yr olds plus, but mostly 30 ish old people or 45 yr old parents play the pinballs. Kids rarely even stop or play unless the parent has a go, and then, the attention span is less than 5 minutes tops. 30 yrs ago, when computers n video games werent invented, different story. All the arcades shut for a reason.
Pinball machines are not fun enough in any way shape or form for young kids compared to what they have to chose from. Just go to a proper Timezone, look at what unbelievable machiney is on offer, and u quickly see that there are many many things that kids will play well before pinball. The fact that 99 percent of people in the place dont even know, or have ever seen a pinball doesnt help.
The ticket dispenser will help, but it aint going to set the world on fire..it might help the arcade operator let the pinball operator leave it there for another 12 months, til the play figures come back.
At least Stern has had a go. The future is home use everywhere in the world...if thats your strongest market, build on it, work it to the bone, do everything to grow that segment because the operator market has and will continue to die a slow death.
Clever marketing to the home market will replace the operator market inside of 3 yrs if someone with some nouse got involved and started thinking 2012 and 2020 versus 1980.lol
p.s - someone said WOZ was a broad market appeal machine...only if you visit old persons homes, cause only 70 yr old people were around when the movie came out....how old is Jack from JJP the boss, close to 65 yrs probably...point made...
The wizard of who ??.....replied the mass market of 2013.
Undeniably arcades are fewer and far between, but there is a market there still and that may die off eventually.
but im sure we would all love to see pinballs in arcades more than they currently are at least till the arcades dissapear.
ticket dispenser will hep imo.
like we have said this is just for this demographic.
for pinball to truly survive pinball needs to be more innovative as many ideas have been said by members on the innovation thread. in areas you say, home use, and other places that could site pinballs. again talked about in the innovation thread
now as for WOZ well the theme is certainly correct to what you say Cavey. however there is a new WOZ movie coming out so maybe that will help?? i dont know. its still a shit theme. hmm bit of luck maybe???
but seeing what WOZ machine is offering as far as innovation then it certainly has market appeal, its not a complete package because of theme, i am sure we can agree on that. i recon whilst the theme is shit the next title will have allot of appeal,
i do think people here are a bit negative and unfair on how pinball is seen by kids and not entirely correct. Im going to get some of my security camera photage of almost every kids that walks into the shop and how they react when they see a pinball machine, lol its insane they are all over it.
i think the cliche of all kids only wanting to play video games is a bit far fetched, (just a little) other things do interest them believe it or not. lol