The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: 63wizz on March 14, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
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You would think with a time machine you could go back in time before it died and prevent it !@#
Any how i was playing it yesterday and the ball jumped up behind the mini playfield and got stuck, the mini PF was raised and the ball shouldn't enter the area where the targets are in this up position,
So instead of taking the glass off i thought i would Tilt the machine and hope when it started back up the mini PF would go down and release the ball.
All the scores flashed on and off all zeros, and the game never started up again.
I turned the game off and back on, to be honest i dont know what has happened.
Now the game plays garbage sounds, the scores are all zeros with the last digit flashing, press credit button and it does not register any thing, same as the start button.
Im sure the CPU is booting the LED stays on.
the Sound board unplugged plays sound and speech when the test button is pressed.
The test advance button does not work.
I have tried.
Re seating socketed chips.
Replaced ic38 3081 chip.
Tr3 BC548 transistor.
Replaced R34, D3, C5 as suggested for board resetting.
Im stuffed any help would be appreciated.
Seems it stuffed up after Tilt im working on switch row and columns ^&^
Ian
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Whats up where the ball got stuck?
If there are switch and lamp connections then you may have shorted between the two with the metal ball... im guessing here of course.
Is the mini PF still raised?
Make sure your tilt switch isnt stuck on.
If the CPU led is on.. then the program is running... but this is really just a small part of the CPU board.
I would be disconnecting all boards and boot the CPU.
Then add the driver
Each time you advance one step turn game off and back on... so turn game off to add driver
Then add connectors one by one each time turning off the machine... you should be able to have all connectors off the driver and only connect CN17 at the bottom... this is ground path to all solenoids etc... with this connected you should be able to manually lift PF and lower by shorting tabs of transistors to ground.
Idea im thinking is to get the game to "normal" position and go from there.
If all is good with CN17 in place .. try adding the display connector... then the switch connectors... then lamps etc.
Do displays display normal with Driver off etc.
If ball got stuck where switch diodes are then test these etc
If we do one thing at a time, then we should be able to narrow the fault down to a particular area
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The ball was in the normal play area when the mini PF is down, there is nothing the ball can hurt in this area.
I will try some of your suggestions and get back to you.
ian
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I would be disconnecting all boards and boot the CPU
CPU boots LED on, with only CN9 plugged in.
CPU did not boot next time.
Checked test points on power supply and TP7 is up and down, this is the power failure detect circuit, im not sure what volts its supposed to be.
Ian
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The CPU boots some times, ive done some Readings on the Power board, and this is what ive found.
TP1 165v with cpu booting and not booting, should be 170v
TP2 13v with cpu booting and not booting, should be 12v
TP3 5.8v with cpu booting and not booting, should be 5.6v
TP4 5.9v with cpu booting and not booting, should be 5v
TP5 68v with cpu booting and not booting, should be 39v
TP6 -5.2 with cpu booting and not booting, should be -5v
TP7 5.0 when cpu has booted, fluctuates between 2.7v to 5v
Ian
Add Text:
I have taken the Mpu board out and connected it to a computer power supply, the board will only boot some times ^&^
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They all look within spec apart from TP5, and maybe TP7.
I would definitely be checking why you are only getting 39V at TP5.
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The CPU booting only sometimes might not be something to get too concerned about... the POWER FAILURE cct has a timer attached to it and needs the 5V on pin 8 CN11 to be on then removed then on again.... you are tricking the CPU to boot by doing this and sometimes it doesnt work... also sometimes it will boot without the pin8 removal..
The power board is what concerns us most right now... you should have around 43VAC coming in from the transformer.. test this across pins 7 and 8 CN1 ( pin 7 feeds fuse F5)... you should then have 39VDC at pin4 CN2, 5&6 CN3, TP5 and 3&4 CN4... if you dont have approx 39VDC then the bridge P5 is gone and needs replacing.. also replace R21 ( 680 Ohm 10W) at the same time.
While you have the board off replace the caps C6 & C6 ( 10,000uf 20Vea).. also C7 ( 0.33uf) D4 ( 1N4003) R12 ( 100 Ohm) and lastly C8 ( 0.1uf)... this is your smoothing cct and also feedback cct to 5V regulator... this will clean up the 5V and smooth any ripple out.
Now if we are lucky ( which we are invariably not with Zac games) the CPU should boot OK in the machine... if not and TP7 is still fluctuating ( this is cap C5 charging and discharging) then we have a fault with this cct either on CPU OR power board
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The power board is what concerns us most right now... you should have around 43VAC coming in from the transformer.. test this across pins 7 and 8 CN1 ( pin 7 feeds fuse F5)...
CN1 pin 7 & 8 50v with no load, fuse F5 49v.
you should then have 39VDC at pin4 CN2
CN2 pin 4 = 67v
5&6 CN3
67v
TP5 and 3&4 CN4...
67v
if you dont have approx 39VDC then the bridge P5 is gone and needs replacing.. also replace R21 ( 680 Ohm 10W) at the same time
looks like a trip to jaycar, but they dont have the 680 ohm resistor
Thanks for the help Gav
Ian
also SCR1 2N6564 is missing from the Power Board, what can i use instead of this.
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While you have the board off replace the caps C6 & C6 ( 10,000uf 20Vea).. also C7 ( 0.33uf) D4 ( 1N4003) R12 ( 100 Ohm) and lastly C8 ( 0.1uf)... this is your smoothing cct and also feedback cct to 5V regulator... this will clean up the 5V and smooth any ripple out.
I replaced all the above components and all Test Points remained the same as before, with TP5 still 67v.
Then i unplugged this great big capacitor that is screwed to the side of the cabinet. i had not read or seen any thing about it in the schematics, unplugged and turned machine back on and the 67v has come down to 43v.
The game still wont boot though.
The two Brown wires at CN1 pins 3 & 4 are supposed to be 10v AC, I get 0.02 on AC and -5v on DC.
Ian
Will put a pic up of the large CAP soon
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?????????????A cap on the solenoid cct? WTF? !@#
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?????????????A cap on the solenoid cct? WTF? !@#
+1 *!@ Id say someone put that cap there to try to give the solenoids more power !@#
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?????????????A cap on the solenoid cct? WTF? !@#
+1 *!@ Id say someone put that cap there to try to give the solenoids more power !@#
well it worked because when the machine was working the ball was pretty lively off the slings and pop bumpers.
any way the machine still wont boot, should i do the acid damaged area to rule this out.
im a bit scared to take out the ram which is socket ed, because i will lose the game settings and with things not working i will be unable to enter the settings again.
Ian
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In all honesty - you have nothing to lose. The RAMs are the first chips that will be affected by any corrosion... the sockets may have saved the actual IC's from being ruined, but they might just be floating due to the traces being eaten away.. so any RAM settings would be lost already.
IF you have corrosion then it needs to be fixed up before it gets worse - mine didnt look too bad, but once the green film was taken off the board to reveal bare traces it was astounding just how far the rot had travelled.
IF the RAMs are eaten away, i have some 6514 here and 2114 are easy to come by... seem to be on every arcade board from 80's era
Am i right in assuming that your board boots sometimes on the bench but not in the game?
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In all honesty - you have nothing to lose. The RAMs are the first chips that will be affected by any corrosion... the sockets may have saved the actual IC's from being ruined, but they might just be floating due to the traces being eaten away.. so any RAM settings would be lost already.
IF you have corrosion then it needs to be fixed up before it gets worse - mine didnt look too bad, but once the green film was taken off the board to reveal bare traces it was astounding just how far the rot had travelled.
IF the RAMs are eaten away, i have some 6514 here and 2114 are easy to come by... seem to be on every arcade board from 80's era
Am i right in assuming that your board boots sometimes on the bench but not in the game?
Yes i have had the board boot on the bench, but have had no luck with it in the machine.
when 5v from the computer supply is connected to the 5v pin at CN9 ( i think ) the power goes through a diode and comes out at 4.33v.
when connected to the machine power supply it gets 5.8v and comes out, i think at 5.6v. and wont boot.
On the bench sometimes the LED would flash on and off for ages and then would stay on for a second or two then start flashing again.
Ian
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OK.. CPU isnt booting.. its trying hard to though.
The logic voltage on Zacs is a little higher than normal, but all the IC's are well within range and youll find that the voltage drops as it fans out through the board.
The RAMs are right in the corrosion zone.. the pads will be the main issue IF it is corosion that is the problem here.. we havent determined that yet.
The 2 RAms are a bugger of a job... pulling off a socket will do some damage to what could be a delicate area.. this will need to be repaired.
The cct between the 2 RAMs i didnt enjoy rebuilding, but in all honesty it took maybe 2 hrs tops
R1, D1 and D2 cop a flogging with corrosion too.
Theres a large ground path at battery -ve.. mine was eaten away and all R2 - R9 had floating pads... check all this.. buzz it out well, its all one of those jobs that you dont want to have to go back to.
In all honesty, your CPU was booting - now its not, but it is continually trying, not just locked off..
Have you checked all signals on the 2650 CPU?.. This can give very big clues as to why its not booting.
Check that you have signals on data bus on 2650.. anything missing and strongly suspect broken traces or socket fault on Eprom to CPU.
A logic probe is excellent for zac games.. apply to pin 10 IC5 ( 2114 RAM).. make sure its pulsing... then CPU pin 23.. same signal.. should be pulsing.
Id say.. do all this on the bench.. the board seems happier there
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I have done the repairs to the acid damage area, the board seems to boot every time now, the LED comes on and stays on.
All the playfield lights flash normal in attract mode.
But no buttons do anything, so i guess the machine needs re programing.
So i switch the #4 switch over on the MPU board and turn the game on, it starts to make a continuous sound, i thought i read somewhere that it is supposed to make 4 or 5 bing bing noises.
so then i press the advance test switch and nothing happens, i think there is a switch matrix problem as the tilt is in the same row and tilting the machine started my problems.
All the coin door wiring has been hacked but the advance test switch worked before these problems happened.
I have replaced ic38 a 3081 and ic41 a 4028 but this has not helped there is a 4042 chip i could replace next.
Ian
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Gday Ian . Great to hear you have made good progress. Keep at it , you will nail it soon. *%*
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OK.. CPU isnt booting.. its trying hard to though.
The logic voltage on Zacs is a little higher than normal, but all the IC's are well within range and youll find that the voltage drops as it fans out through the board.
The RAMs are right in the corrosion zone.. the pads will be the main issue IF it is corosion that is the problem here.. we havent determined that yet.
The 2 RAms are a bugger of a job... pulling off a socket will do some damage to what could be a delicate area.. this will need to be repaired.
The cct between the 2 RAMs i didnt enjoy rebuilding, but in all honesty it took maybe 2 hrs tops
R1, D1 and D2 cop a flogging with corrosion too.
Theres a large ground path at battery -ve.. mine was eaten away and all R2 - R9 had floating pads... check all this.. buzz it out well, its all one of those jobs that you dont want to have to go back to.
In all honesty, your CPU was booting - now its not, but it is continually trying, not just locked off..
Have you checked all signals on the 2650 CPU?.. This can give very big clues as to why its not booting.
Check that you have signals on data bus on 2650.. anything missing and strongly suspect broken traces or socket fault on Eprom to CPU.
A logic probe is excellent for zac games.. apply to pin 10 IC5 ( 2114 RAM).. make sure its pulsing... then CPU pin 23.. same signal.. should be pulsing.
Id say.. do all this on the bench.. the board seems happier there
Still no joy with this board. The board is booting every time according to the LED, which is on constant.
None of the cabinet switches do anything.
Switch 4 on the cpu board turned to the on position makes the machine make a constant noise, but the advance test button does nothing.
I have replaced IC5 IC8 IC17 IC19 IC20 IC33 IC38 and IC41, this has made no difference.
I have tested the Data bus and the Address bus, everything seems to be ok, i dont have a logic probe only a DMM.
The score displays are on zero and the credit display alternates between 4000000 and two zeros on the left and one zero on the right.
The PF lights are in there attract pattern.
So basically it looks like it should work but i cant get into the test program mode.
if any one has any suggestions please, i need help with this one.
Ian
edit: added youtube vid of machine with switch 4 on
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OK its running again, and most of it was my fault.
I replaced TR3 a BC548 transistor with a 2N3904 when the original problems started, Yes this transistor is a replacement for the BC548 BUT the leg pinout is reversed, so i put it in the correct way but really this was the wrong way.
So in goes a new 2N3904 back to front and i have my coin door switches back again.
Re programed the Time Machine and she goes $#$
I think what started this whole saga was the battery acid corrosion and should have been the first thing i fixed &^&
Thanks to all who offered suggestions on fixing this pin
Ian
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Interesting....
I have a similar problem with my Devil Riders... everything works in test mode, but in game mode, ball does not kick out, bumpers are dead etc. I have switch inputs to the board but no output.
I ran Leons test program for zaccaria and all switches strobe as normal BAR the output for TR3 which is in reverse.
Yet TR3 tests fine and is installed correctly... have replaced the 4028 that feeds this also, but no luck.
You can see now why i didnt reply any further on this thread... i have almost the same problem!
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Here is an email i sent to David Gersic,because of this email i went back to the TR3 and found my mistake
Ian
On Monday 11 April 2011 05:47:14 you wrote:
> > Hi David, i am having problems with my Time Machine. The board is
> > booting every time according to the LED, which is on constant.(i have
> > fixed the acid damaged area)
If you have the LED on, and the score displays working, the board is running.
So that's a good sign.
> > None of the cabinet switches do anything.
> > Switch 4 on the cpu board turned to the on position makes the machine
> > make a constant noise, but the advance test button does nothing.
The DIP switches are completely separate from the switch matrix. So that
switch 4 works is interesting, but not all that helpful.
The switch matrix strobes on the Rows. Row 0 has it's own transistor. Rows 1-7
are from IC38. Row 0 is the coin door switches. So, possibly TR3 is bad (no
Row 0, no coin door switches). Without the coin door switches, no switch test,
so it's kinda hard to tell if any of the others is working. You might put a
logic probe or 'scope on Row 0 to see if there's any strobing activity there.
If there isn't, then work back through IC41, IC33, and IC32 / IC19 / IC31 to
find out why not. If there is, then your problem is on the read side of
things.
To read the switch matrix, IC25 and IC24 must be working, in addition to IC32,
IC19, and IC31. But without knowing if you have the strobes on the Rows, it's
impossible to know if the reads on the Columns are working or not.
> > I have replaced IC5 IC8 IC17 IC19 IC20 IC33 IC38 and IC41, this has made
> > no difference.
> > I have tested the Data bus and the Address bus, everything seems to be
> > ok, i dont have a logic probe only a DMM.
You'll need at least a logic probe to do any useful debugging, really. A DMM
isn't going to help much.
IC5, IC8, IC17, IC19, IC20 are all unrelated to the switch matrix. IC33, IC41,
and IC38 are, as above, part of the strobes. TR3 isn't in your list, though,
so that may be relevant, but it's hard to say that for sure without some kind
of test equipment to see what's going on at the input of TR3 (from IC41) and
its output.
> > So basically it looks like it should work but i cant get into the test
> > program mode.
You're sure there's no break in the wiring harness or bad connections between
the coin door and the boards? What happens if you put a jumper wire across
CN10 pin 6 and CN10 pin 10? That would be the "advance" switch. If that works,
your problem is in the wiring, not the boards. If it doesn't, well, it's on
the board.
> > Originally i was playing a game and the ball jumped through the gate
> > and in behined the mini PF which was in the up position,
> > so i thought i would tilt the machine so when it started up again the
> > mini PF would go down and release the ball,
> > all the score displays started flashing on and off and the game did not
> > come back on to continue play.
> > The game has not worked since.
Weird. Shouldn't be related, though.