The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: pinball god on December 28, 2015, 03:15:07 PM
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Dunno where to start??? First boot and had some controlled lamps locked on, some gi's and not much else. I did a quick scan for wires touching and found a couple of spots where the braid may have touched a switch. Separated these and boot again, no gi's and not much else including no sound. Did solenoid check and all good. Replaced F5 on rectifier and gi's back, did solenoid test and now knocker locked on.
So I figure Q3 tip 120 could be stuffed on solenoid driver BUT I have some strange stuff going on, as well as cannot start a game.
Some controlled lamps not lighting.
Rhs pop bumper fires during light test mode which didn't happen when F5 dead and before knocker locked on.
Pop bumper lights always on which I don't think is correct for an embryon
The two upper yellow targets when activated light up the flashers
In switch test mode #8 is always flashing, I have no balls in trough
A few gi lights flicker every now and then
Happy to work through one problem at a time if this helps
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Take a step back and ensure the CPU board is ok.
Remove the connector (J1 from memory) from the rectifier board. Check the fuses on the power supply and then you should have a booting game without J1 connected. No solenoid power or GI lighting to the playfield.
you need to check the wiring to each lamp. Sounds like a a lamp matrix wire has shorted to a coil somewhere.
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Take a step back and ensure the CPU board is ok.
Remove the connector (J1 from memory) from the rectifier board. Check the fuses on the power supply and then you should have a booting game without J1 connected. No solenoid power or GI lighting to the playfield.
you need to check the wiring to each lamp. Sounds like a a lamp matrix wire has shorted to a coil somewhere.
removed J1 which said playfield on the rectifier. Power on but knocker locked on. So powered off quickly.
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Remove J2 on the Solenoid Driver. This provides the circuit for the knocker. The game should boot now. I'd say the corresponding driver TIP102 Q3 is shorted on. But how this relates to the issues since re populating the playfield is a mystery, as that solenoid is in the lower cabinet.
you should be able to enter the self test, but the solenoids associated with J2 will not fire. At least you can test the CPU lamps.
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Replaced Q3 tip and knocker ok. This has been a problem when I installed a knocker for the first time. Knocker is not a problem from the pf swap, I believe
Did the test with J1 removed and game booted and pressed credit button and game started. So can I safely say the pcb's are ok and now its time to look at the pf.
What are some of the things that can cause such problems? I have done some prelims and am making sure caps on switches etc are not touching things as well. I am finding the I have missed spots on the braid where it is very loose and could have touched switch diodes. Have temp stuck these areas with masking tape to highlight the area and ensure they are away from harm.
One thing I did notice I had a target mounting plate screwed on top of a braid line. Could this cause strange things? Thanks
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Replaced Q3 tip and knocker ok. This has been a problem when I installed a knocker for the first time. Knocker is not a problem from the pf swap, I believe
Did the test with J1 removed and game booted and pressed credit button and game started. So can I safely say the pcb's are ok and now its time to look at the pf.
What are some of the things that can cause such problems? I have done some prelims and am making sure caps on switches etc are not touching things as well. I am finding the I have missed spots on the braid where it is very loose and could have touched switch diodes. Have temp stuck these areas with masking tape to highlight the area and ensure they are away from harm.
One thing I did notice I had a target mounting plate screwed on top of a braid line. Could this cause strange things? Thanks
Braid line should not be touching anything except the related lamp sockets.
Are the CPU lamps working ?
Is the switch matrix working ?
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Thanks mate, I have an altek onboard. The selftest and one other led are bot solid green. Haven't reconnected J1 yet so dunno what you mean by switch matrix working. Currently backglass controlled and gi ok, coin door lights ok.
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Thanks mate, I have an altek onboard. The selftest and one other led are bot solid green. Haven't reconnected J1 yet so dunno what you mean by switch matrix working. Currently backglass controlled and gi ok, coin door lights ok.
You mentioned earlier that there may have been a short. The Switch Matrix Test will ensure the switches are all good before we try plugging in J1 to the rectifier board.
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Thanks mate, I have an altek onboard. The selftest and one other led are bot solid green. Haven't reconnected J1 yet so dunno what you mean by switch matrix working. Currently backglass controlled and gi ok, coin door lights ok.
You mentioned earlier that there may have been a short. The Switch Matrix Test will ensure the switches are all good before we try plugging in J1 to the rectifier board.
did switch test and all showed up correctly and activated when pressed. Will wait for next step before blindly plugging in J1. I did isolate areas I thought could have caused a problem but have not proven these have solved anything yet.
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OK - The J1 connector supplies the coil voltage / return and GI voltage / return. If you are sure there is nothing touching the GI braid, then switch off the game and plug in J1 Switch on, and report back.
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Checked everything and thought all ok. Turned on and flashers locked on. Switched off and disconnected flasher pcb. Turned on and played a game.
Problems were lots of controlled lamps off like bonus lights etc, all which look like come from the aux lamp driver.
Single drop target red stand up target does phantom activations to reset target??? Dunno why
Other working controlled lamps work strangely not lit but recognized as activated and then turn on other times. Dunno if related to problem
Knocker activated and looks like blown Q3 again as locked on. Disconnected knocker and played another longer game.
At completion took notes to report back here and GI's and sound go out. F5 on rectifier gone and hot to touch.
Replaced fuse and disconnected J1 and back to previous situation.
While during switch test single drop target activated as 17 then pulsed to zero which the manual said it would but it kept changing 17 to 0 to 17 like the pulsating reported in gameplay.
Is a short still on the go and is there a tip102 for the flasher circuit? I did replace the flasher under pf lamp holder in the resto to #44. Also history of machine, this globe was removed and flashers no go. I put a globe in and all well. I'm wondering if there was a previous issue re burn marks on pf.
Sorry for so many questions.
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Update
When sliding the pf along rails I did notice earlier the wiring loom snagged real hard. I just found the blue/red wire broken. Also upon reinstalling the wiring loom to the pf I noticed a break in the braid near a T intersection and guessed it needed to be connected to this section. I unsoldered this prior to tonights test in hope this could have been the cause of a short. I think this is why aux lamp lights were dead. Resoldered, fixed the broken wire and now have flashers, and most controlled lamps back on board. F5 still gets real hot so couldn't check to see if all lamps are a go.
So current status is knocker coil removed from circuit, tip102 probably bad but not tested and unproven yet, F5 20amp fuse gets hot and suspect will blow again if game left on, but unproven yet. Game does boots as per normal otherwise and would play I suspect but unproven as got J1 disconnected now after making this observation.
What should I try now, or is it back to look for a short? Thanks for your patience on this one
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OK - I had a similar issue with a Fathom years ago. The F5 fuse was getting hot and eventually blew because the ground strap on the lower section of the headbox was touching the GI on the light panel of the headbox. It happened every time I closed the light panel. So I think you have a short to ground on the GI.
I'd like to try removing F5 and checking if the game works 100% without GI. At least it is narrowed down by the sounds of things - GI short to ground. The other thing to try is checking continuity between the F5 fuse clip (just do both sides) and the ground braid of the machine - with the game off.
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Yeh, I agree.
Most likely GI braid being run to ground somewhere... its pulling current when it shouldnt
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Started my next session of troubleshooting. Game played fine apart from a couple of minor adjustments needed re switch contact spacings which I'll tackle later. So I'll look at the other suggestions now and will report back.
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forgot to ask but I was not careful with the GI circuit with orientation of holders especially the A1363's. The red wire may go to the top contact and further down the braid line its connected to the lower connector if you get my meaning. Could this be a problem
Also I have noticed down one GI path one end has say the red wire on the top contact, white on the lower and at the other end I have a red wire connected to the lower contact or the opposite way around.
Will either or both cause the F5 to heat up?
I am guessing red/orange on my loom is one type of connection and white/green another.
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A1363 - should not really be an issue. But are there A2915 or A2916 in that same circuit ? That would cause problems.
Unplug J1 from the Rectifier board
Locate the two GI circuits. The colours will be
J1 - Pin 1 = GI BUS
J1 - Pin 4 = GI BUS
J1 - Pin 3 = GI Return
J1 - Pin 6 = GI Return
They will be paired off - so on the playfield there will be a colour denoting the GI BUS and the GI Return - easy to spot on the playfield. So by testing with a meter, you can find out which pair are shorted to Ground. Remember - GI Return is effectively Ground - So what you are looking at doing is a process of elimination with the GI BUS coloured wires - one of those is shorted to ground, and which ever is - that's the next part to figure out.
You can test with J1 inserted and the game off. Pins 3 and 6 will be shorted to ground. Pins 1 and 4 will not - so which is shorted to Ground ?
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Update, may have it sorted. Found braid wires connected to a red and a white wire were crossing over each other and touching. Located near middle of playfield. Separated these and F5 hardly gets warm after 15 minutes of game play and being in idle mode. This could be the solution.
Now to staple braid in areas I think might cause problems in the future and some switch adjustments.
Thanks for your help Nino, you kept my head focused in the right direction. Oh also this torch you gave me came in handy. Not so much for lighting but as a stress release while looking for shorts. I pumped that baby like nobody's business. My forearms are bigger than Arnie's now %.%
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If you need a lend of a braid gun let me know
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If you need a lend of a braid gun let me know
thanks mate, I have a ok stapler ha seems to do the job, but much appreciative of the offer
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No dramas mate. I had the time to help out (wish I had more of that time for other issues).