The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: infinite1977 on July 21, 2015, 05:24:31 PM
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Finally got some working displays :)
So i can now see what's going on
Thanks to all involved so far in fixing these :)
Next problem.
1.) When I boot the machine the display writes "Factory settings" and nothing else comes on. I then turn it off and on and then everything lights up. What could be the problem? ??
2.) The police car lights up but doesn't seem to move up and down.
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1. Are your batteries in good condition and not too old?
2. Check connections to the relay board under playfield. Also is the drive belt in good condition?
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Thanks Steve. Batteries are ok but i might try some new ones. I assure your talking about the AA ones on the main board.
As for the relay board or drive belt, how do i check them exactly. I will take a pic later
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Thanks Steve. Batteries are ok but i might try some new ones. I assure your talking about the AA ones on the main board.
As for the relay board or drive belt, how do i check them exactly. I will take a pic later
Yes, I assure you I am talking about good old double A's. <..>
Just reseat the connector on the motor relay board to start with.
A quick visual inspection should reveal any belt troubles.
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/21/ad60817c601f8d21f279d8fa7b384cab.jpg)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/21/15f79a4886b150b3cf4f5f983a358a13.jpg)
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Hope they help. Will get batteries tomorrow
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P.s also noticed I have two different coils for my sling shots one is ae 26-1500 which is correct
The other one is ae 23-800
Is this a major drama
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/21/f99fd35ca2a9b0d1c0bc0452df9e277c.jpg)
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You might want to look at the polarity of the batteries.
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You might want to look at the polarity of the batteries.
Yep, if I'm looking correct ins't the + sign at the bottom?? You look to have the batteries upside down?
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P.s also noticed I have two different coils for my sling shots one is ae 26-1500 which is correct
The other one is ae 23-800
Is this a major drama
Have you downloaded the manual at all? http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1841/Williams_1989_Police_Force_Operations_Manual.pdf
PG58 shows the info you need
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Got a bit of the brown/white fuzzies on the terminals on that battery holder in the picture as well.
Put some new batteries in the correct way around as suggested and if it is still getting the factory restored message you might need to look into replacing the holder with either a new one or ideally with a remote off board alternative.
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P.s also noticed I have two different coils for my sling shots one is ae 26-1500 which is correct
The other one is ae 23-800
Is this a major drama
Have you downloaded the manual at all? http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1841/Williams_1989_Police_Force_Operations_Manual.pdf
PG58 shows the info you need
I do have the manual. My question is does it matter that one coil is different?? More so what is the difference between the two coils
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After posting the pic I realised they are upside down. Still does the same. Will get new batteries and clean the terminals and hopefully that solves the issue
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After posting the pic I realised they are upside down. Still does the same. Will get new batteries and clean the terminals and hopefully that solves the issue
if there is white/blue looking build up, you should neutralize that with a mixture of half vinegar half water (an old toothbruth can be useful), dry off, then wet the area with alcohol or metho.
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Thanks. I was going to ask for recommendations for cleaning :)
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Got a bit of the brown/white fuzzies on the terminals on that battery holder in the picture as well.
Put some new batteries in the correct way around as suggested and if it is still getting the factory restored message you might need to look into replacing the holder with either a new one or ideally with a remote off board alternative.
What is a remote off board holder out if curiosity?
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Got a bit of the brown/white fuzzies on the terminals on that battery holder in the picture as well.
Put some new batteries in the correct way around as suggested and if it is still getting the factory restored message you might need to look into replacing the holder with either a new one or ideally with a remote off board alternative.
What is a remote off board holder out if curiosity?
Like these: They can be mounted on the inner left hand side of the backbox.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Remote-Battery-Holder-Kit-for-Pinball-Machines-Best-safeguard-for-your-Pinball-/291501070489
Prevents potential board damage if the batteries ever leak.
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Thanks
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Ok. I have done as suggested. Cleaned up contacts, replaced with new batteries and that has seemed to fix the start issue.
Thanks guys.
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Next issue ,it tells me to press advance button on start up. I try doing this as nothing happens. I try to get into the test mode but the buttons don't seem to do anything.
Suggestions(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/22/288c726be22177dec30176f5d0b86c3d.jpg)
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Bump bump bump lol
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Try reseating connector 1J14 on the CPU.
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Thanks Steve.
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Try reseating connector 1J14 on the CPU.
Thanks
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Issue I have now is the following
On CPU board there is no connector on 1J14 and 1J16
And nothing connected on J16 and J20 on interconnect board.
Is there a way a harness of sorts can be made to go to these plugs? How can i get it fixed
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Also nothing on 1J16
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/ac73dafa8cdbeb4efadf16b8d453eb65.jpg)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/7c28c1906691e657541ce60352e996c8.jpg)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/f5fd34ea9e204785d1c5113270e48d31.jpg)
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What is the part number on the CPU board?
It looks like its been raided for parts? Did it have the original WMS serial no sticker on it and ROMs?
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Here is complete shot Marty.
The game does work. I thought the cpu board was complete.
D-11883-573(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/43908105e9b1c3b529d68a7bcc90aa84.jpg)
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What is the part number on the CPU board?
It looks like its been raided for parts? Did it have the original WMS serial no sticker on it and ROMs?
Want to do a house call. I not far from you :)
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OK, its the correct CPU so thats a good start.
According to Clay's old guide - Part number D-11883-xxx (where xxx is the game number) & 573 is the correct game number.
Its the photo which shows the area around header pin 1J15 that concerns me. Looks like its been robbed it that area, but looking at the manual thats normal.
I wish I still had my Police Force, miss that game heaps.
My restoration / repair days are long gone unfortunately !
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It was worth a shot Marty. Any ideas on how I can get a harness made to connect to the missing connectors?
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It was worth a shot Marty. Any ideas on how I can get a harness made to connect to the missing connectors?
Would be easy enough to make, just need lengths and one to copy from.
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It was worth a shot Marty. Any ideas on how I can get a harness made to connect to the missing connectors?
If you get stuck, let me know and I can probably put a set of cables together for you.
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It was worth a shot Marty. Any ideas on how I can get a harness made to connect to the missing connectors?
If you get stuck, let me know and I can probably put a set of cables together for you.
I will take you up on that offer. Tell me what you need as this is way out of my skill set.
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P.s if it helps I have a spare playfield here with harness. I am happy to provide that to you to make up the missing cables.
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No worries.
I'll have a good look at schematics tonight to see what is needed.
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Thank you so much. I will make a list of what cables are missing from the boards for you.
Huge relief.
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I think 1J16 actually goes to the sound board above it, so check for a missing plug there also.
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Ok i had the wrong plug in j1 on sound board. That was the plug needed for 1J-14 on cpu :) i will list missing plugs on each board on next post.
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Audio board J1
Cpu 1j15
1j18 (but i believe this remains blank)
AUX pwr board
J9 (i believe this remains blank)
Inter connect board
J16
J20
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I think J20 may not be required also
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Pages 95 and 96 in the manual show all the connections and their destinations to compare to your actual game.
Pretty sure you're right about J20 not being used.
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Also before I forget, you should cover the clear windows on your ROM chips with some opaque tape/sticker to prevent deterioration of data by UV light.
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Audio board J1
Cpu 1j15
1j18 (but i believe this remains blank)
AUX pwr board
J9 (i believe this remains blank)
Inter connect board
J16
J20r
According to the pages listed previously;
Audio board
J1 should connect to CPU J16
CPU
J15 - not connected
J18 - not connected.
AUX Driver Board
J9 - not connected.
Interconnect Board
J16 - should be a 3 pin, 2 wire plug from the drop target opto board.
J20 - not connected.
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So to clarify i need to find a cable from the opto board under the playfield from one of the drop targets and connect it to J16?? This could explain why the drop targets are not working
This means all that i need you to make is a cable for the audio?
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Ok i found the plug for drop targets and plugged into J16 so one drop target works i suspect t the other is faulty.
It has now left one of these plugs blank(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/d8a057a5584937cb416e50277ad3822d.jpg)
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So to clarify i need to find a cable from the opto board under the playfield from one of the drop targets and connect it to J16?? This could explain why the drop targets are not working
This means all that i need you to make is a cable for the audio?
Yes. I'm thinking just the audio cable will be needed. I can make this up easily by comparing/measuring from my Cyclone.
Is that spare plug from one of the drop target banks? Do both target banks have an opto board? Those wires(blk-yel, gry-yel) are 12v DC power for the optos.
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I think so. I pulled the cable out of that connection to put into J16.
So your telling me there should be one more of those connections?
I really appreciate the audio cable. Let me know what it will cost. :)
Once we sort this out the car is the only thing left i believe
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I think so. I pulled the cable out of that connection to put into J16.
So your telling me there should be one more of those connections?
I really appreciate the audio cable. Let me know what it will cost. :)
Once we sort this out the car is the only thing left i believe
Pretty sure both banks of drop targets have an opto board attached and both need the 12 volts to work.
This cable maybe connects between the two. Should have a perfectly mating connector some where, which is possibly attached to the other opto board. !@#
No worries to do the cable.
Probably looking at about $10-$15 posted.
Now that you can get into diagnostics, should make troubleshooting the policecar a little easier.
Also I'm gonna take a guess that your "belt" is not original. I thinks lots of different substitute belts have been used by PF owners over the years.
But as long as it's not slipping or overnight, I guess it's probably OK.
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There is only one set of these plugs that connect to each other
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/07e1f063a5c01034306550594b4856be.jpg)
So unless I take the female end and plug it into J16 no optos work
If I take the female end amd plug it into J16 the middle opto works only
Of course this plug is not consistent with the others so i am guessing i am missing the connector that goes to J16
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Also I have two wires loose from J11. The manual tells me I should only have 5 wires but i clearly have more
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/95198dfa5bf14800f02c22e973424539.jpg)
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Audio cable is done.
Can you take pics of the connectors on the opto boards themselves if possible?
Think you are right that the cable between interconnect board and opto might also be missing. Will have to get you to measure approximate length needed for this one.
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Also I have two wires loose from J11. The manual tells me I should only have 5 wires but i clearly have more
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/95198dfa5bf14800f02c22e973424539.jpg)
Sorted this issue
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Audio cable is done.
Can you take pics of the connectors on the opto boards themselves if possible?
Think you are right that the cable between interconnect board and opto might also be missing. Will have to get you to measure approximate length needed for this one.
Both opto boards have connectors on them (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/f4f3006a70293fc1f132c0f5c7e37b65.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/bf7e605598cbfa3c172b7babfed35617.jpg)
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The opto board with wires going in and coming out again.
One side leads to the other opto, where does the other side go?
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The opto board with wires going in and coming out again.
One side leads to the other opto, where does the other side go?
Just connects to other set of wires.
Here is pic of spare playfield. Hope it helps(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/7d4b010063cf7351d3d01798605f6c0c.jpg)
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The opto board with wires going in and coming out again.
One side leads to the other opto, where does the other side go?
Just connects to other set of wires.
Here is pic of spare playfield. Hope it helps
Do you mean the wire colour changes? !@#
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I can't follow it all the way
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What about on the spare play field, if you cut some cable ties?
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Will give it a go. So am I following from the middle drop down target or the other one
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So both connect to each other then go to another joiner then connect all the way to J19 . On my pin then there is a 2 pin plug that goes to J2. I can only assume there should be another for J16
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/24/3a135b14c5ab3a404b59b457f59618f0.jpg)
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I really need someone with this pin to take a pic to see if we can create a joiner from J2 to j16
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J2 should connect to 3J1(Power supply) positions 5 and 13.
There should be no room at 2J19 for any extra wires. If you have Black/yellow and Grey/yellow wires at J19, something is very wrong.
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I don't have them at 19. The wires on the spare playfield just come off as all the harness is not there. The connection for J2 are the same for J16. That being said i did try taking the connection from J2 and put it on J16 but the drop targets did not work
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One possible solution I can think of, is to remove the connectors from both optos along with what ever wire is still attached (Blk/Yel, Gry/Yel wires only!) from the rest of the playfield harness, post it to me and I should be able to add a connector for 2J16. Just to make sure it will be long enough I can add extra length.
Edit
To save on postage, take a photo of what's left of the existing harness once removed. Probably won't need it all.
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Not sure that would be practical. I appreciate the offer. Can i not spit it from the J2 connector as it is the same connector. ?
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Technically you could bypass the interconnect board and run the optos directly from J2. Not sure if any fusing or resistance occurs on the board that would be of concern, without consulting schematics.
You'll also still need to find the feed wires to hookup to J2.
Most people would consider it a hack though.
For testing purposes you could hook up J2 with test leads and find a suitable place to input the voltage along the black-yellow/grey- yellow wires going to the optos.
Also please see my edit in previous post if you haven't already.
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Not sure that would be practical...(snip)
Wonder if you have misunderstood me? Can't see why my suggestion would be even slightly impractical?
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Not sure that would be practical...(snip)
Wonder if you have misunderstood me? Can't see why my suggestion would be even slightly impractical?
I think i may have confused myself and the situation
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Ok let's reset as i am getting things muddled.
The wires from the opto under the playfield go to a joiner and then two wires go to J16 (i currently had this plugged into J2)
So if i plug it into J16 this means J2 is now blank so i need to get two wires into J2
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J2 should connect to 3J1(Power supply) positions 5 and 13.
Ain't this detective work fun! &&
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It is good as i have leant so much from your wisdom. So now we have to work out what to connect to J2 :)
So you are telling me this should link up to the power supply??
How do we do this?
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Check 3J1 connector on power supply.
Pin 5 should be black and yellow wire, pin 13 should be grey and yellow wire.
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Ok will check when I get back home in an hour. I will take a pic as well.
Thank you so much.
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Ok let's reset as i am getting things muddled.
The wires from the opto under the playfield go to a joiner and then two wires go to J16 (i currently had this plugged into J2)
So if i plug it into J16 this means J2 is now blank so i need to get two wires into J2
Glad you discovered this. This was actually my sneaky intention when I asked you to send me the partial harness. #@#
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Ok i followed the two wires from power supply. They go down the the area required. It looks like the wires have been crimped but the connector is missing.
They then go down to the12v plugs i originally posted.
So i guess I need the right plug(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/25/6a8c7236632bb72169c1b4a5e5caeea5.jpg)
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Hard to see clearly, but if there are a pair of small nicks in each wire, then they are from a missing insulation displacement connector.
Are you saying if this connector where present then the position is correct to plug into J2 on the Interconnect board?
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Yep. Will take another picture
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/25/16bd2ec70381d93ef976e548d24e4b1f.jpg)
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So how do we connect them to connector? If i cut them there will be an extra end or can they connect to the connector joined like that?
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This might get you out of trouble here.
IDC Connector (http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_88_196_223&products_id=2236&osCsid=7343553d07aa57f9c82d0c30cf8a58fb)
You can just press the wire down (in a slightly shifted position)into the cutters on the new connector.
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Ok i will go and see nino to get the connector.
So you agree with me in thinking this is where the connector needs to go?
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Pretty sure we're on track here, but just to clarify, where do these wires loop back to?
Are there two of each wire coming from power supply J1?
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Yes
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Cool.
If you want to PM me your address details, I'll send the audio cable 1st thing on Monday.
Edit
You need to be careful when pressing the wires into the new insulation displacement connector that you don't accidently spread the cutting blades. The blades are in a "V" shape so as you press down the blade cuts into the insulation, but if you press to hard or deep, you risk spreading the blades.
You can get a special tool for the job, but they're a little pricey. I usually use a very small flathead screwdriver blade held slightly diagonal on top of the wire to press it down.
Maybe grab a couple of those connectors in case you make a mistake with one.
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Cool.
If you want to PM me your address details, I'll send the audio cable 1st thing on Monday.
Edit
You need to be careful when pressing the wires into the new connector that you don't accidently spread the cutting blades. The blades are in a "V" shape so as you press down the blade cuts into the insulation, but if you press to hard or deep, you risk spreading the blades.
Last question for the day.
How do i exit from the test mode lol
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See p34 of the manual. Or just turn power off/on. :D
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See p34 of the manual. Or just turn power off/on. :D
I must be blind is there another way other than turning game on and off??
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See p34 of the manual. Or just turn power off/on. :D
I must be blind is there another way other than turning game on and off??
Page 40 of the PDF copy of the manual. Second heading from top.
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See p34 of the manual. Or just turn power off/on. :D
I must be blind is there another way other than turning game on and off??
Page 40 of the PDF copy of the manual. Second heading from top.
Wow will just turn it off and on lol
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Easier to actually do the proper exit procedure than to describe it. *%*
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Ok. Here are test results for car
Car up error
car down error
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And switch 31
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Switch 31 is the car up switch. Does it register in switch edge test when activated?
Have you checked all other switches?
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Both switched register on switch edge test
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Solenoid tests 15 and 16?
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Nothing on 16. Heard a tiny noise on 15
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Had dodgy relay. Replaced from spare playfield. Car goes up. Down is playing up
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May just need to reflow the solder on the relay board.
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New relay board works well but car still jams. Sometimes needs a little nudge
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Any mechanical type binding in the gearbox?
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No idea. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/27/01dce734d7e80056c8db2708fe6c6f1e.jpg)
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Switches work, solenoids work. It goes up and down but needs a helping hand sometimes
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Might be worth replacing the drive belt.
You can buy proper replacement but some people use silicon tubing from pet store with a short dowel inserted at the clamp.
Don't know if it would help but worth doing anyway.
Is that a nylon rope being used at the moment?
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Looks like it
Will try replacing the belt
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Ok. Next issue. Might move on from the car for now.
I have a set of drop targets that don't drop when hit by the ball. They seem really stiff and I have to put them down via hand. Is there a way to fix these?
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May just need a good cleaning, or adjusting if they're catching anywhere.
Also make sure springs are connected and not overstretched.
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Sprayed with WD 40. Worked a treat they go down but they don't go back up straight away for some reason. Two of the three register on the score board.
Strange thing is the coil works as they come up when it's trying to detect a ball.
(It's the ones on the side, weasel drop targets)
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Sprayed with WD 40. Worked a treat they go down but they don't go back up straight away for some reason. Two of the three register on the score board.
Strange thing is the coil works as they come up when it's trying to detect a ball.
(It's the ones on the side, weasel drop targets)
Try cleaning the three optos on the opto board. (Yes, the same ones you probably just inadvertently sprayed with WD 40). #@#
Use a cotton bud to clean between each U shaped opto to see if that helps.
WD 40 may be a temporary fix, but is generally frowned upon as far as pinball maintainence is concerned.
Better to remove the entire drop target assembly and clean it properly and well.
It will perform better and last longer. ^^^
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Haha. Nice.
Thank you master Steevsee
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Sprayed with WD 40. Worked a treat they go down but they don't go back up straight away for some reason. Two of the three register on the score board.
Strange thing is the coil works as they come up when it's trying to detect a ball.
(It's the ones on the side, weasel drop targets)
WD 40 may be a temporary fix, but is generally frowned upon as far as pinball maintainence is concerned.
Having said that, a squirt or two in your car gearbox may not be entirely out of place.
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Lol. One of the optos must not be working at one target is not registering. Might replace with spare
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The (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/776cf6f6db807ef05271ee35cde3657d.jpg)
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Thanks for the pic.
Looks like the cable length is good.
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Ok seemed to have worked our car issue. This piece of metal seems to stop the car from hitting the switches.
WD 40 worked well on the gear box.
Might need to try and trim this metal piece or something (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/2f99b9f87112a09bcaf86ae25e764e4b.jpg)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/21/ad60817c601f8d21f279d8fa7b384cab.jpg)
The car switch at the top of this pic seems to be activated by the metal undercarriage.
You may just need to adjust the switch slightly if it's not registering correctly.
Should be no need to trim any metal.
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Sorted drop target. Replaced opto board, they work a treat.
Now to finish car off. Still struggles right at the end of the down switch