Skateball Flipper Issues TECH

[tomdotcom]

 Just got myself a Skateball the other day and need some help getting
the flippers working properly.

The guy before me had a piece of cardboard shoved into the relay to
make them work. So when it's in there they work fine, but if you take
it out the flippers are totally dead. Can I just replace that relay?
Or would something else be wrong down or up the line that would cause
this?

See my 2 pictures that I took. One is with the cardboard in and one is
when I took it out.
The part# is e-00146-0795 (relay,printed circuit)
The relay socket is e-00592-0002
The relay holder is m-1839

Also where could I buy this if it just needs to be replaced?

See the 2 links below to see what I'm talking about.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/3857487571_fd34984fc3_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2602/3858273608_4c504a0d7f_b.jpg

[MartyJ]

Wow.  Interesting mod...

Nino knows these back to front so I'm sure he will be the authority on it.  As far as parts go (again check with Nino to ensure is correct part)

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=relay&osCsid=563a1a1ce4deee1e02c678a0c1e5f1bc

or

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=relay&sprice=&stype=&scat=

[Ballywannabe]

2 likely possibilities:

1. Flipper relay coil is fried.
2. Driver circuit for the relay coil is fried.

Check your manual as to which transistor on the Solenoid Driver Board drives the relay (one of the big ones on that run along the bottom of the board).  With the cardboard out, ground the metal tab of that transistor with a jumper wire.  If the relay pulls in, the transistor (or something else upstream) needs replacing.  If it does not pull in it is most likely that the relay coil is gone (but check the tracks leading to the relay for damage and resolder the relay pins just in case it is a dry joint).

Hope this helps!
Ian

[AskJacob]

heheh that is a creative hack!

I guess the flippers can be flipped even when there is no game running with that mod 

Cheers
Jacob

[Strangeways]

That's an original hack !

First thing I'd check is dry joints behind the relay. Since the machine has changed hands - I'd be checking all the connectors and at least reflow the connector pins. These relays are sometimes mounted on a socket - not hard wired. So check the socket and the legs on the relay.

I don't have the schematic at work, but I'll have a look when I get home.

[tomdotcom]

Thanks guys! I will post more once I dig into it some more. There are some burnt connectors that will need to be replaced as well. Got my hands full with this one haha

[tomdotcom]

Ok so I made a little jumper wire with an some wire and alligator clips. Then I put q15 to ground, which is the transistor that controls that flipper relay and the relay closed right away. So I must have something else wrong.

The j1 molex connector on the rectifier board is severly burnt, and it looks like someone has also hacked the wiring a bit and tied some wires together with solder in that area.

Maybe that's where I should be starting first?

Anybody want to take a peak at the schematic and see what else I should be checking out? Maybe you'd like to see some pics of the connector?

[tomdotcom]

There are "seperate" issues with the rectifier board. Looks like they hacked the wiring a bit to bypass things possibly.

One thing at a time though haha.

Here's some pics of the rectifier board troubles just cause. That'll be my next project after the flippers

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomdotcom88/sets/72157622199582934/show/

Also here's a great answer I got from another board:
As others have already pointed out, you will need to check (and replace if bad) the following.
I have included additional components in the chain involved with driving the flipper enable relay.
(Signal tracing would be required to pinpoint the exact place where the problem is, as opposed
to replace every component).

Be especially attentive to possible cold solder joints under the J4 headers, and with the pins
in the connectors on both the MPU and Solenoid Driver. Often corrosion cause broken pins
on the connector going to J4 on the MPU, causing issues with solenoids...

Components to check on the Solenoid Driver:
- Q15
- CR15
- R37, R38, R39
- U4 (transistor array)
- J4 pin 8 on the solenoid driver

Components to check on the MPU:
- J4 pin 7
- U11 PIA.

[Ballywannabe]

I would just replace Q15 first - easy and the most likely cause of the problem.  If that does not work, reflow the solder on the identified pin on the MPU and SDU (this sends the signal to open/close the relay).  Then report back!

cheers
Ian

[tomdotcom]

Would there be any unused transistors on the board that I could poach? Until I get some replacements. I'd like to try this tonight as I have some free time. Thanks again everyone!

[tomdotcom]

I tested the transistor at q15 with my multimeter and it was at 500and something. Which is between the 400-600 it's supposed to be. So could it still be that transistor? Or should I test the diodes and resistors as well?

[tomdotcom]

Alright I'm slowly learning things here.

I tested r37,38,39 resistors and they all tested at the right levels.
r37 3.9k
r38 120
r39 330

I also tested the cr15 diode and it seemed fine and the same value as other diodes.

So maybe I need to start looking into some other things?

Or could I still have a problem with these parts even though they tested fine?

[tomdotcom]

I am going to replace the q15 transistor tommorow, cross my fingers. Then play some Skateball!

[Strangeways]

I am going to replace the q15 transistor tommorow, cross my fingers. Then play some Skateball!

sometimes a Transistor measure correct in circuit, but it does not indicate that it is "good". I will is the least expensive and time consuming change you can do at this stage.

OK - The power supply board is giving me nightmares ! That's a "shocker" - literally !

Are you in a position to repair and upgrade the power supply ? Refer to Clay's bible -

http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index1.htm#ps

If not, there are replacement boards available from our sponsors ;

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_86&products_id=1128

Or near you part of the world ;

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=135-103

If you have the time, I'd be attending the Power Supply first, as it could potentially be the source of multiple issues.

[tomdotcom]

I'd definitely just replace the entire board, but there are wiring hacks on some of the wiring going to it . So I'd have to figure out what goes where originally. That will be my next project for sure. Might have to invite a pinball buddy over for that one. heheh