The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: infinite1977 on January 19, 2011, 09:45:23 PM
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hey guys, a while go I bought a project Earth wind and fire which was not going. I had the boards fixed by a fellow member(thanks for that) and the machine was sitting for a while as I was moving house. I finally got t it today and placed the boards in, new batteries in the battery holder and turned the pin on. All lights come on, and for the briefest of moments, I had sound, the displays and solenoids clicking, and then they turned off. Now I only get the lights coming on and no displays or solenoids. Is there something I need to do from here?
so close yet so far.
all fuses seem to be fine, everything is connected.
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Whats the LED on CPU doing?
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it doesnt come on. it seems like there is nothing going to it after that initial burst
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Ok, I pressed the red button on cpy board a few times an now machine works. Now jut need to place displays in the right place and work it out.
p.s there was a bit of smoke coming from one of the power supply's under the machine with a nasty smell, but that has gone also. could it be some old dust that caused it?
I will post video of the machine in action on here and on you tube shortly as I have looked everywhere for one and could not find it. Maybe something we can do on the forum, and get a stock pile of videos of members playing their machines:)
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p.s there was a bit of smoke coming from one of the power supply's under the machine with a nasty smell, but that has gone also. could it be some old dust that caused it?
Well this is never a good sign.. only power supply in the bottom of the machine is the transformer and it wouldnt be this. Chances are that it was a locked on coil that has now completely burnt out... youll soon find out as it will be the coil thats not firing.
I also dont like the pressing of the test button to get CPU working.. make sure you have good solid voltages from the power board, it might be that your logic voltage is taking time to stabilise, this will cause power failure to shut the CPU down.
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Spot on about the coil. Just ad a game and discovered the burnt out coil. Will check voltages when I get a chance. Glad this machine is working for now. I still now need to give it a good clean up. I have not seen many of these around.
Out of curiosity, what would be the going price for one of these.
Backglass: 9/10
Playfield: 8.5/10 a couple of wear marks
Cabinet: 7-8 out of 10, a few nicks on the body, but to be expected I guess.
The machine has cost me around $700 in total which I think is fairly good.
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smoke escaping from electronics is NEVER a good look.........
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Interesting enough, I turned the machine on today and now the flippers, ball eject and drop targets are not working. The only coils that are working are the 4 pop bumpers and the credit knocker. Does this mean there is a bad connection somewhere as the flippers were working yesterday, or do I need to replace all thee coils?
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Flippers have their own circuit on the power board through the 2 relays.
Do you have a schematic for the boards?
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I do have them somewhere, but they mean nothing to me lol. Any pinball techs near Lower Templestowe willing to come and have a look :)
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Let me look at mine later and ill see if anything seperates your coils... i very much doubt it, but il look anyway and get back to you
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Thanks. I dont think anything separates the coils either. Now the flippers is what hs thrown me off.
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The first thing you need to do is determine if you have approx 40V at the coils including your flippers... if we have voltage then its a switch problem and loss of grounding... if we dont then its a fuse or connector etc
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Ok, how do I check that. if you dumb it down for me I can give it a shot.
Cheer :D
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ok found a blown fuse under the playfield. There are 2 of them, the one on the right hand side keeps blowing. Now what?
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There are 3 fuses under the PF.. all of which are 3A.
Im guessing here that the one that keeps blowing is due to your burnt out coil... this may have gone short. You need to disconnect the wires from the burnt out coil.... do not join them all together. There will be 2 together.. tape these up, this is your power line. The single wire is your grounding.. tape this seperately.
Hopefully your fuse should stop blowing now. If not we have a short elsewhere
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Where is the 3rd fuse? I have dis connected coil as suggested and I am no longer blowing fuses $#$
I am also testing voltges on coils and this is what I get
Knocker :38v
slingshots: 0.4v
Flippers: 0.4v
Pop bumpers: 38v
Ball eject: 0.4v
Drop targets: 0.4v
So now back to my original problem, no ball eject, slingshots, or drop targets. Apart from that machine plays fine.
Thanks for your help so far, I am learning heaps. Hopefully we can get to the problem.
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Ok, retro, you are a Legend. i did not connect the 2 wires that I took off from the coil correctly, which is why the other coils were not working. I joined them together as suggested and they all now work, so all I need to do now is replace the burnt coil and the machine is fully working. Thank you so much for your help, and sorry if I drained you, but I definitely learnt something along the way.
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Infinite,
Glad its all sorted.. and yep, you disconnected the power line to the coils after the faulty one.
What size is the burnt out coil? Ill see if i can point you in the direction of a replacement.. you dont necessarily have to use Zaccaria coils
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The model number is as follows:
(red coil) D40 S.1200
Is that enough to go on?
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I was thinking in the mean time I take the coil from the credit knocker as it is the same value. Can I just disconnect the wires from that?
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I was thinking in the mean time I take the coil from the credit knocker as it is the same value. Can I just disconnect the wires from that?
LOL- this is the main reason why credit knocker coils are missing!
Yes.. go ahead and swap it out, just do the same to the wires as you did before.
You can replace the coil with a Williams 26 - 1200
Greg at RTBB will look after you as he does me
heres the link
http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=170_61_179&products_id=402&osCsid=3915f909e13d42974c1d145fc29fa8cd
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Ok, have another issue with this Zac machine. I replaced the coil for the centre kick hole, but it does not seem to activate. I have made sure that power is going to the coil, and when I test with multi meter I am getting 38v. Any ideas?
Everything else works perfectly.
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Ok, have another issue with this Zac machine. I replaced the coil for the centre kick hole, but it does not seem to activate. I have made sure that power is going to the coil, and when I test with multi meter I am getting 38v. Any ideas?
Everything else works perfectly.
I am assuming that is the coil that was burnt out?
If it was then you need to check the complete ground path of that coil.
Coils burnt out when they lock on either from a bad driver transistor or bad pre-driver ic.
Check the driver transistor for that coil and if that is ok you may have to get out the drawings and trace it back to the IC that runs the transistor.
Not familiar with Zac's but they all work basically the same.
On my Timewarp Will sys3, the ball eject was burnt out from being locked on when I got it, but that also took out the IC that runs the driver, and when I got it going, the coil would not fire, I had to replace the IC and away it went.
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Thanks for the advice. I will try and get a copy of the schematics.
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First of all check the transistors that drive the coils.. these are Q1 through to Q24 on the bottom right of the driver board.
Transistors are a BD649 - Jaycar carry these or an alternative.
If the transistor is burnt out, it should be obvious to spot... once burnt out like you had they tend to fry. The resistor next to it will more than likely be fried also these are a 390 Ohm 1/4 W but its better to use a 1/2W.
Not all the transistors are used and its possible to pinch a spare and swap.. but youll need game specific diagram to find out which is which.
If replacing the transistor doesnt work, then it will also be IC 17 through to IC20 - One of these will be associated to your transistor... once again.. youll need game specific diagrams to ascertain exactly which. Or you can test them yourself
The IC's are 7407 buffer chips... real easy to test and sold everywhere... make sure you use a straight 7407 .. not the HC or LS version... these are an input in and then straight output... so what goes in then comes out..
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ok who needs the EWF schematic?
p.m. me with your email address and i will send it to you.
All the caps & bridges on this machine where replaced on the power supply and all voltages where present & correct on test bench.
cpu board had a remote battery holder fitted.
I am glad you have it firing up now.
I should have got you to send the driver board up as well so i could have checked it over. @.@
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I have sent you a PM.
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Yeah, I think I will send the other board up. There seems to be some burn marks around the driver transistor, so I am banking on that being the issue.
P.S The work done on previous boards from Beaky, was top notch. Highly recommend if anyone needs any work done.
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pm received & one sent back.
just make sure all your lighting circuits are also working correctly.
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Q3 is the culprit, also I found Q17 is cactus also (coin mech lockout I presume after looking at the schematic) the resistors & diodes are fine. I will also replace the 7407 I.C. that controls Q3 just to be safe, the cost of the I.C. & socket is way cheaper than the cost of posting it back up to me and then posting it back down to you again. I will also de solder & then re solder a couple of the transistors that have been replaced before. if you look at solder on the transistor in front of the one with its guts blown out you can see the blobs of solder holding it in.
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The repairs are done and the board is on the way.
I could only find both parts at jaycar (locally anyway)
Their catalogue says they carry the BD 649 tranisistors but as mentioned by another member earlier they gave me an equivalent which is a BDX 53C. There are already a couple of BDX 53C transistors on the board from previous repairs. I checked the specs on both transistors (just in case the equivalent had a lower rating) and they were a match.
I checked all other components relating to the faulty transistor (resistors & diodes) all were fine
I also socketed and replaced the 7407 I.C. that controls the transistor with blown out junction (the one in the photo with it's guts blown out) just in case it was also damaged. Lucky i checked the tiny numbers on the I.C. (With a magnifying glass, my eyes aren't what they used to be) they had given me a 7404 I.C. which is a hex inverter not a hex buffer like the 7407. There would have been some drams if i had put 7404 in ^&^
sorry if i have bored anyone with my technical bla bla :tumble: but i thought i would put it here for any one that may need to repair a Zaccaria driver board.
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LOl- after attempting to put a LM3900N in place of a CA3081, i always use an eye glass to read my chips.
If it hadnt had the wrong number of legs.. i would have put it in
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what would have made it worse is the pins correspond to one another on the 2 chips so we would have had all the solenoids controlled by that chip turning on when they were supposed to be off and off when on. plus if the machine was left on it would have cooked all the coils it controlled. #@#
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Ok EWF Finally working, with a major part to Beaky :)
One last issue, one of the displays only has 2 digits. I have spoken to David at Zaccaria and he seems to think 2 of the 3 tubes are not working. He can fix it if need be, but was wondering if anyone local can fix it or have a display to suit for the machine. Apart from that it has come up fairly good with a little wear on the playfield, but generally in good condition over all.
Thanks to everyone who has helped with the machine. I shall post some pics shortly of it.
Time for the next one I think :), just need some room
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I am glad we got it all sorted for you. ^^^