The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Photo Gallery => Pinball nostalgia pics => Topic started by: mark jackson on May 17, 2009, 09:56:44 PM
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Here's a couple of 'before' and 'after' photos. ... I hope. If they post ok, I will give a few details on the project later. Mark
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wow that looks fantastic!!! cant wait for the details ^^^
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WOW !
Did you pictorially document the restore ?
You removed the metal side rails and replaced them with wood rails - Great work.
^^^
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That looks awesome Mark! It was excellent to finally meet you at the Expo.
Was this the game that Lee had?
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Nice result there. It's a pity the before shots are a bit small; do you have them at a higher resolution?
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Thats a great effort i have a machine which im going to remove the steel rails and return to wood after seeing that i definately have to now
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Outstanding!!!
This is the sort of thing that would be great at the next expo.
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Howdy all, The Queen Of Diamonds ......... here's a few details.... I bought this from Lee a few years back. It was as you can almost see in the 'before' pics.... (they're not great but they sure give the idea). Anyway, I bought it for a couple of reasons .... it was a wood rail (I believe that the steelrails were added later, after that hideous shade of red which you can see), and there was a good playfield... good in the sense that it was protected by a quick and nasty shellac job which had been slapped on years before with a 4" brush, without removing any playfield parts, ... of course. Did I mention that it had turned a yucky shade of brown and was from 1mm-4mm thick. Very troublesome...... But it had one really bad thing going for it ..... someone had covered all the gobble holes with their own home made plastics, and had changed the wiring of the game, and cut wires etc. And in putting in these plastics had 'hacked' about 4-5 mm of the playfield out, to fit the homemade plastics.....
So it was almost not worth trying, but I thought I could do something with it. Here's my memories of what and how I restored this oldie but goldie.
Lee put me on to a product called 'pedigree' fine filler. It great as it is as hard as a rock, yet will sand with ease. When I did the cabinet I firstly glued, then screwed here and there as there were a couple of chunks of timber missing around the bottom and rear of sides. Then, when its all stable from gluing etc, I used the pedigree to fill what was needed. I sanded the whole cabinet, of course and on the way, I got a drawing of the original design and colour. ..then finish sanding.
These days, the only spraying I'll do is what comes out of a can and even then I don't like breathing those fumes. I use sponge brushes for two real coats of undercoat, then 2-3-4 coats of the cream colour. I lightly sand between about every second coat. This keeps everything smooth and under control. My wife Kerrie usually cuts the stencils on original 'contact' paper.... Don't use cheap contact as it will lift from the surface and you will get lots of 'bleeding' that you don't want. We usually cut all the lines on the contact in one session, but then tape over all second colour sections before putting the sheet of contact on the box. ...Actually, it's probably smart to temporarily tape over the 1st colour sections, too and then its a whole lot easier to 'lay the contact on the box as the sheet is still one 'solid' piece. Anyway, after the colours, I touch up anything that bled, or other imperfections I see. Be patient; at this point as it should mostly be looking good, and there's a tendancy to 'rush' in all of us. After touch-up I wait a few days for paint to 'cure'....one final light sand and check. ....... then I do 4-5 coats of a water based clear, to 'push back' all the colour and give all the paints one common sheen. It's just 'more pinball'. I lastly nail some felt stoppers on the back of the cabinet as I hate scraping pinball cabinets in transit etc.
Guys, I'm going to stop now. I'll talk a bit about the playfield next time, and some other stuff about these wonderful machines. I hope some of this was helpful. There's as many methods as there are restorers so it's finding what works for you. ....... I enjoyed the Expo. Well done to all involved. Cheers, Mark
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Thanks for posting the start to your restoration thred Mark,
How did you remove the shellac from the playfield without damaging the original paint? I have 2 playfields - a Foto Finish and in part a Sweethearts with the same issue.
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Hi y'all, ...... Sure, Tony. I will talk a bit about the removal of shellac from playfield(s). ....This was a huge problem on the Queen Of Diamonds. As I mentioned before, it was really just slapped on with a wide brush and an impatient hand. Over the years it had turned brown and really detracted from the whole thing. It's not rocket science but there's a few things that have worked for us. I guess the grade paper you start with depends on how thick the layer is. On the case of QoD there were some parts as thick as 3-4 mm, and other areas about 1-2 mm. So, for the thick parts, something around 220 paper might be enough to 'knock it back' a bit. I only use small pieces of sand paper, and only work in a small area, moving from your thickest areas, giving them the most attention, down to the areas where you may start with say, 400 paper. That grade is about right to be the 'start' of 'normal' rubbing back.
A few things to bear in mind ........ 1. patience ... don't scrub like a washer-woman or you'll probably rub away the paint, and wouldn't that be disappointing. 2. Your eyes ... get 'down' and use them to look at where you are rubbing and judge how it's going.
From the 400, I move to 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000. ... So, getting down to the final grades (1200 -200) you should be starting to win. The sanding time on Q of D was about 2 weeks, I think. We just did a bit every night, and you will be able to see the shellac turn to dust as you keep at it.
Some good news .... when you get down to a really fine layer only, if you rub your finger up and down in a spot, the natural heat in the finger and the rubbing will often remove the very last layer of shellac. I hope you know what I'm trying to say here, but it does work if the layer is thin enough.
When in doubt, be conservative....in the case of Qof D, the area where the playing cards are down the bottom playfield .... if you look really hard there, you'll see that that is the one area where there is still a very light essence of shellac left. And guess what? It doesn't detract at all, you can't even notice it unless I mention it, AND, none of the cards were damaged in any way. ... A fair enough compromise, I'd say.
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It's Mark again ... oops.... computer pilot error.... Back to sanding for a second ..... When it's getting down to the serious part of the deal, you should be sanding at about 1000, 1200, 1500 by now. When using papaer, check often for a trace of colour on your paper. There's a good warning that you need to stop sanding there....
OK, from memory, that's the story on the sanding of the playfield on the Queen Of Diamonds. Next time, I'll give you the adventures of the gobble holes. What a scene that was! Happy Trails, Mark
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Sh*t....you make it sound easy :lol
Thanks for taking the time to post that Mark, very much appreciated...now I just have to build up the courage to attempt it. Luckily it's a few games down the track in the restoration queue
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This is a work of art. Great job. I wish I had your patience and skill.
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Greetings pinball lovers, ............ Q of D restoration...... Carrying on from where I left the playfield ...sanded. At this stage there was only very minor touchup required, as well as a couple of big scratch marks around the gobble hole red area. BUT ....the gobble holes. Somewhere down the line, a guy had taken out 3-4 mm circular section around the gobble holes, (to fit his oversized, home made plastics whose job was to cover the holes). ...but only through to about half thickness of the playfield. In other words, the size of the holes was still correct half way through the playfield. Hence the use of the 'eject hole rings'.
These I cut a section out of so there would be the natural space where the light globe from under the playfield gets the chance to light the hole. I ran a metal ruler over the holes to adjust the height of the metal rings. They were glued. I then did the filling of the space between the playfield surface going from the 'hackout' point to the metal ring. I used Pedigree bog, which Lee put me onto. Sets like a rock and sands like a dream... The bog was sanded and the playfield painted back on. ...black circles and a bit of red and yellow from memory. Tricky, but not impossible as the paintwork was relatively easy to put back....
By now, the playfield looked consistent and calm, as it had no shine on it at all, This playfield was clear coated with automotive clear. (All playfield art work was done with automotive paints.) This was a first for me. Lee uses them very well, but for me they are hard to work with, they dry from the brush to the playfield, and the fumes will kill you. Don't get me wrong. They did a great job, and if you're a better artist than myself, they may work just great, but I'm taking a different tack on my current playfield restoration. However, on Q of D I applyed a generous amount of clear....probably more than I normally would do, but what with the 'surgery' to the gobble holes, I thought it only wise.
I notice that there's a discussion about Clear Coat V's MYLAR on the site..... After doing both, there's a lot to say for both methods.... After weighing up the pros and cons I'd have to say that one sheet, quality mylar is probably less invasive to the machine, it keeps the machine in a pristine condition, and it doesn't 'pit' or mark the way ANY clear coat surface will eventually. My Sweethearts was done with Mylar maybe 15 years ago and it looks just as fantastic today as it did on the day it was done.... and I had it at my nephew's and neice's for quite a few years. ... But Mylar doesn't sound 'right' for 60's and 70's machines ... It's too quiet. In the end it's all a compromise somewhere. Clear coat surfaces sound better, and for home use, with regular waxing, a playfield should NEVER wear out.
In the end, every machine presents its own problems, and hopefully its own solutions. It's now a few years since I did Q of D and there's a few little 'chips' appearing around the gobble holes..... Solution.... next time I do the touchup, and add a bit more clear in these 'high wear' gobble holes, I'm going to do this .... cut myself three mylar 'rings' which I'll place around the gobble holes ...about 6-8mm wide should do the trick. This will give that added protection to this most problematic area of this great machine. ...only problematic since the hatchet job was done on the holes.
To finish, ..with a lot of sweat and some patience, we were able to get a butchered and tired looking playfield back to looking really fine and handsome. .... this was a hard one I must admit... To all out there, please don't carve, chop, drill, hack, or cut into a playfield. If you don't like the game, sell it and get another. ...or buy a white board and make a game you do like.
I hope some of this is interesting and helpful. If so I'd like to mention a few other things I do as I restore a machine......next time. Happy weekend. Mark
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Once again thanyou for taking the time for posting here Mark.
This forum was made for guys like you and I'm so glad a guy with your restoration skills is here.
Lee offered me this game years ago and I passed because I honestly thought it was beyond restoration - it was hammered. Just shows you what is possible.
Very inspirational stuff ^^^
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Once again thanyou for taking the time for posting here Mark.
This forum was made for guys like you and I'm so glad a guy with your restoration skills is here.
Lee offered me this game years ago and I passed because I honestly thought it was beyond restoration - it was hammered. Just shows you what is possible.
Very inspirational stuff ^^^
"beyond restoration"
What does that mean Tony ?
%.% %.%
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more photos...Mark
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Oh she is soooooooo pretty, glad to see some more love for Gottlieb woodrails....are they the reproduction rails that PBR sells?
The other game that is similiar that I really love is World Beauties from 1959.
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?name=World+Beauties&mfgid=93&yr=1959&pl=1&searchtype=advanced
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Hi pinball people, .... yes, they're the reproduction woodrails from PBR. They were fantastic. Just add some stain and some wood polish. While I'm mentioning repros, for a restoration like Queen Of Diamonds, these are some of the parts which were repro'd. The front door, the coin plates, the bee-hive shooter part, the backglass, the pop bumper caps, the wooden front bar...(for this part, Lee sent me down the original and I gave it to a wood machine shop to copy. I copied the metal attachment and the thin 'bolts'.) Also, the playfield plastics, the cream (now white) rollover guides on top of playfield. Unbelievably, the bottom playfield red guide lanes were perfect! Also, the legs, the front and rear door locks, the balls ..... And that's before I mention the wooden frame around the head. This had been sawn off on the side, but there was enough info from the top and lower pieces, so that I got more of this shape made, and then made the frame to fit....also, the cigarette holder on left rail.
The coin return metal piece on the front door is an interesting one. The original was rusty, pitted and battered...you can't get this piece at PBR (as far as I know), so in the end, I got it chromed. Also, on the inside sides of the cabinet there's a metal piece (l & r) about one metre long,which would have been shiny when new, but now it was flat, and tired and 'dirty'. These two pieces I sent to the chrome shop too. I figured that once they would have reflected light from the playfield back to the playfield, and they sure do now. It works out great as machines from this period aren't overly lit, and this really helps brighten things up.
I'm sure there's other parts I've forgotten, and I've only mentioned parts on the playfield, ...not underneath. In the end, a pinball machine is worth what someone will pay for it...and Queen Of Diamonds is a good example of why. In this case, I had no choice, but to replace these parts, as the originals had been changed, abused, worn out, rusted, etc. A 'sure 'nuff' never been touched, Class 1, original machine is the BEST ( and practically impossible to find) .... but next to that, I reckon you can't beat a good restored 50's or 60's machine. ...
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Sounds like you have given it just the right amount of attention it deserves great work
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I now want a Woodrail to restore !!
Great thread - I've really enjoyed reading the process ^^^
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ooooh that is just beooootiful!!!
Thanks for this thread.. ive enjoyed every bit of it.
I always say that there is nothing that cant be restored... its just a matter of time and effort.
The proof's right here... ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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Hi guys, Thanks for all the positive feedback and comments you've given regarding this most difficult restoration of a pinball machine. If you thought I was finished, then I'm not quite done .......
So far, I've talked about the cabinet, the playfield, and some of the parts that were replaced. This only leaves the 'under-side' of the playfield, and what's in the cabinet itself.
I'm going to make a few comments here which may prompt debate and agreement or disagreement. That's ok with me, as there are lots of opinions and ideas to consider when thinking about how/what to restore. Let me begin by making comment about something. I've heard the comment a few times that only pinballs with 'original' paintwork, plastics, backglass etc are worthy of being classed as 'collectible'. For me, this comes under the banner of what I call 'The Illusion of Fantasy' ...... I've already conceeded that a Class 1, 'original', untouched machine is the most desirable. The one catch here is that I've NEVER seen such a machine. Pinballs are like old cars. When they are in 'original' condition they are almost always broken, clapped out, rusted, non-working. Yes, they may be in 'original' condition, but even that is misleading.
We all enjoyed playing machines in arcades, milk bars etc and usually, these machines were 'as new' ..ie: all shiny, good bright paint, evrything working as new. In fact it was a real thrill to rock up to the milkbar to find the latest Gottlieb had just arrived. They looked fantastic, they sounded great and they were the complete 'fantasy'. These machines had nothing to do with some broken down wreck, and if a wreck had been in the milkbar, it would barely get a coin compared to a sparkly, new model. ...that is if they worked at all.
So, when a machine is repainted, it's because it HAS to be repainted. When I look at the pics of The Queen Of Diamonds in the state I got it, it's just laughable. It's not the faithfull reproduction of a design/paintjob that's a problem ..... it's the folks who decide to paint the box bright purple who are the worry. Once a machine has been changed to 'non-original', then the best thing from that point is to bring it back to as close to original as possible. When I think of what I prefer ... Q of D as I got it, or as it is now, then there's only one way to go. No one (surely) would argue that it was better before I re-did the cabinet.
Another thing that happens is this .... Often a machine can both LOOK better and WORK better than it ever did when it was new. Pinnies are that strange combination of two opposing principles...1. It needs to be made for as cheap as possible...2. It needs to NEVER break down..(no working, no money!) So while electro-mechanical pinballs have much that is 'indestructable' about them, they also have a certain 'cheap and nasty' aspect to them. In other words, they can easily be restored to look, work and BE BETTER than they ever were when they were new. Yes, that's a fact.... Like old cars, when they are done thoroughly, they will often present better than 'original'. The cabinet is an easy part to show this. As I said, when I repaint, I do 2-3 undercoats, 3-4 coats main cream colour, and when all colour is on box, I give it all around 4-5 coats of a clear semi-gloss..... End result: the cabinet has been properly done and therefore should last years and years and still look like new. It should not flake off or fade like they do from the factory.
So just because a pinball looks better than it did when new, that is no reason to think of it as 'less' than an original. The differences should only be slight Eg: chroming a part which was originally stainless steel. So, when a restored machine looks and plays better than original, please don't rush to 'put it down'. In many regards, by then it is in fact a superior example to the 'mint' original ...(still usually impossible to find.) In USA they have more pinball machines, so have a tendancy to 'look down their nose' at restored machines. I think that it's not the restorers who are the problem....it's the 'butchers' and 'hackers' who show no regard for what & how they are changing the machine. .....
I do want to finish of my notes about Queen Of Diamonds. I still have to say a few things about flippers, bumpers, and what's under the playfield. However, I got a bit side-tracked here, so I'll leave that till the next time I get a chance to write a bit. (I'll give you a few tips on how to get better the factory performance, without changing any factory parts/settings. Yes, it CAN be done, and fairly easily too.)
Have a great weekend...... Also, I'd like to say that I'm open to offers to sell /trade my machines. I only have World Fair, Sweethearts, Sky Jump, and Queen Of Diamonds left. As I get older, I do better with less machines, and so periodically, I like to turn a few over so I can get other machines....Also, I'm looking for a new and worthy restoration project. If you have such a machine, and know that you'll never actually get the time to do it yourself, maybe we can do something. Regards, Mark
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Great post, Mark.
I think along similar lines - The machines are often neglected and poorly maintained during their route days, and sometimes ever further neglected once privately owned. I tend to target the VERY neglected machines as they deserve to be treated better and the results can often be VERY satisfying post restoration.
My "signature" restoration was a Gottlieb Jacks Open. Around 200 hours and fully rebuilt. I coined the phrase "Nearly In Box" as it was a close to Original condition as it was ever going to get.
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I agree Mark well done. Id rather see some one return a hacked machine back to original
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There are a couple of schools of thought on this one, but I think everyone agrees that a clapped-out playfield or very tired cabinet warrants some work.
At the moment I am tending towards leaving my machines as is, just because the hours you guys put in scare me. Might look into newer plastics and targets one day. But then, the playfields on the pins I have chosen are showing minimal wear anyway.
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Greetings all, I'm back with a bit more on restoring the Queen Of Diamonds ... (and restoring generally). The part I haven't mentioned is all the 'mechanical' side of things, which is my favourite part of the whole deal.....Flippers, pop bumpers, kicking rubber mechanisms, roto target assembly (in the 'head'), score reels, 0-9 units (for tens of thousands), 100,000 point score assembly etc.
First, let me say that when I do a machine, I try to clean and check EVERY part, and piece of the machine. I clean things like the motor board, and all wiring in the cabinet and head. I also dis-assemble, clean, adjust etc all relays, re-set coils, connectors. I believe that dirt is the enemy of the pinball machine. Solenoids are designed to work dry and clean. Basically, if it's on the machine, I clean it.
My favourite cleaner is Eucalyptus oil, ...it really gets out grease from fine lines on the playfield, and is gentle to them, BUT it will remove oil based paint real fast so..........
I use tissues and cotton buds for cleaning. Nothing is ever 'wet' but more 'damp' and as soon as the tissue shows any grime or dirt, I throw it away and get a new one. This way, you only have to get the dirt off once. I'm not a lover of using rags for this type of cleaning. I also have a can of Furniture polish (Farmland, or the cheap Coles kind are my favourites), Brasso or a metal cleaner, and oil. Oil is only used sparingly for the score motor, the 'contact' parts (with the little springs) of a 0-9 unit, and stuff like the roto target cogs.
I've mentioned before how a good restoration can be better than original in many ways.......Eg: why not get a set of felt cabinet protectors from mark c. Why put a wooden cabinet through the stress that a metal leg can put on it, when you don't have to. Before I bought these from Mark I used to put a couple of layers of clear 'Contact' onto the inside of the legs, so that the metal would not be touching the cabinet. Simple, but better than original.
Adjustment of contact blades is essential to get the best from flippers, pop bumpers and kicking rubbers but here's one thing that works for me........ On all these units, I brasso, or metal polish (by hand) the barrel of the solenoid. If you work backwards and forwards, you can feel when the little bumps etc go, and the surface becomes smooth. Then I clean it off, and then do the same thing with the furniture polish....put in on the clean barrel, and then wipe it dry. I also wipe the inside of the plastic coil sleeve with furniture polish, and then wipe that dry.....this makes the surface of both the barrel and the inside of the sleeve REALLY smooth....End result is that all these components WILL work faster and smoother than they did when new. I know this sounds a bit far fetched but it's true. Of course,all the rest like having good coil stops, barrels without burrs or uneven wear etc is essential too, but if all the parts are fine, then they can be made to work at their optimum...Pop bumper contact points can be set much closer than factory specs (they were set so that the bumper would never 'repeat' from contacts being too close, as this would result in the coil burning out, and the machine not making any money.) ...and you know if any of these things are too close, as the bumper will 'repeat' or work from surrounding vibration only, and the kicking rubber will rat-tat-tat too much. ..somewhere between 1.5-3 mm, I guess, for the pop bumper contact points under the playfield.
The last thing I'd say is that after all the work I did on this machine, I took it to Colin Smith so he could fix the creative wiring changes, and generally put the machine through its paces. It had a lot wrong with it and Col did a great job as he methodically went over the machine. ... I have taken all of my machines to Col at some stage, and he is just a master at pinball. He knows these machines like his own hand, and really understands them and all their peculiarities. I salute you Col.
So that's about it briefly, in terms of the Queen Of Diamonds. It's a great game to play and a beauty to look at, even when it's switched off. It was worth the time and effort that me and my wife Kerrie spent on it. It took about a year to do all this stuff. It easier to write about it than it is to do! Happy Trails, Mark
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Thanks again for posting Mark, I just hung on to every word *%*
I'm looking at slowly unloading all my 1960s Gottlieb pins to replace them all with woodrails so if you have any other woodrails maybe we could work a trade?