The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: millsy on January 18, 2009, 05:52:15 PM
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!@#
Still trying to restart my 66 Bally Bazaar, after some minor repairs (Globes,etc) - First problem - Stuck on ball 1, tried resetting, score wheels resets ok and ball kicks out OK & everything works ok but still won’t go past ball 1 - So decided to tilt machine - Bad move - smoke came out of tilt relay & blew fuse - replaced fuse, now resets score wheels, but ball wont kickout as machine is stuck on TILT. Any ideas guys ! Can the tilt function be disabled for now or is this required in start up sequence. This is my first major electrical problem & I do have schematics (still getting my head around reading schematics)
This is the sequence when starting machine now.
Power up – all PF & BB Illumination working – Tilt light on.
Press start button
-Score reels reset
-Score motor advances (in cabinet)
-Replay relay (in cabinet) clicks in & out
-Start relay (in cabinet) clicks in & out
-Tilt relay (in cabinet) does not click in & out
-Reset relay (in backbox) clicks in & out
-Ball count relay (in backbox) clicks in & out
-Replay Relay (in backbox) clicks in & out
Ball won’t kick out ,No flipper,bumper operation,no ball number displayed or game over displayed, just TILT.
Have disconnected plum bob & ball roll mechanisms & checked all bounce switches.
Any clues ?
Millsy
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Hi Millsy,
If you saw smoke then the Tilt relay is probably fried. Can you remove the relay to examine it? You will need to find what burnt out first.
regards Derek
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Sounds like the TILT coil has shorted.
The TILT relay isnt necessary on Bally EM's, but if it is locked on TILT, it will override everything. Try moving the TILT mech to unlatch the leaf switches if you havent done so already. Also make sure you have credits on the game.
Dont know if you have this info, but from Clays site - bally start up sequence....
Bally Start-Up Sequence.
Coin is inserted into the game. The coin relay will energize. It will stay energized through its own hold-in switch and a score motor switch. If the credit button is pressed (instead of a coin being inserted) and there are credits, the credit relay will be energized which energizes the coin relay.
The coin relay will energize the lock relay (this turns the general illumination on). The lock relay will stay energized through its own hold-in switch and a delay relay switch.
The coin relay will energize the reset relay, through a game over relay switch (if your game won't start, try cleaning the contacts on the game over relay; a very common Bally problem).
The score motor will operate. This will energize the score reset relay(s). The score reset relay(s) will attempt to clear the score reels to zero. This is done by operating the score motor. Each turn of the score motor will operate the reset relay once, which in turns moves a score reel one position, until the score reel(s) are at zero. If the score motor continues to run when a game is started, there's a good chance the zero position switch on the score reel(s) is dirty or mis-adjusted.
The coin relay, through the score motor, will advance the total play meter.
The reset relay, through the score motor, will reset the stepper units (zero the ball count and player units).
The coin relay, through the score motor, will decrement the credit unit.
The coin relay, through the score motor, will energize the game over latch relay coil.
The coin relay, through the score motor, will energize the 100,000 relay latch coil(s) (if the game supports scores greater than 99,999).
If the outhole switch is closed (single ball games) or the ball trough switches are closed (multi-ball games), a ball is released to the shooter lane through the outhole relay (single ball game) or ball release relay (multi-ball game) and the score motor.
On multi-player games, the credit button may be pushed again to add a player. This time the coin relay will not energize the reset relay. Instead it will (through the score motor) advance the total play meter, decrement the credit unit, and advance the coin unit.
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Not sure if the tilt relay is suppose to activate at all on startup -thought if it was cooked it would be fully energised-have pulled coil out & it is the only coil that still has the paper intact & doesnt look burnt,checked continuity through coil -ok, maybe I can borrow one of the coin shute solenoids that are not in use -the smoke seemed to come from the burnt resistor? (refer previous post http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=479.0).
If I activate tilt relay by hand (Long Stick) the only thing that happens is it kicks the ball out.
PS. At least im finding out whats inside these ems & have plucked up the courage to activate coils etc with the power on even though its with a long stick.
Millsy
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LOL- mate, you can use your fingers. No high voltages on the coils
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I thought they were 50v - ouch $#$
Millsy
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Hi Millsy,
Can you take another photo of the part which burnt? It looks like a resistor but it is difficult to tell.
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Hi dj10555,
These are the best i can take with the camera I have.
Thanks Millsy
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Hi Millsy,
The photos are great and help alot with trying to sort it out. It appears someone may have added the resistors to work around another problem which couldn't be easily fixed. Perhaps they bypass the tilt switch? I don't think they should be there and where probably underrated anyway which caused them to fry. Do you have the schematic for this game, as we can probably try to work out why the resistors were added.
Also when you measured the coil, did you remove the wires from one side of the coil? If not this will sometimes cause a false continunity reading due to other coils or relays in circuit.
regards Derek
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Checked schematics & found there is a 5w15a resistor in the circuit - so soldered same size resistor in circuit & bingo everything works except ball number & game over lights not illuminating, will continue tommorrow.
Thanks everyone for their input-much appreciated.
Millsy
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Great work Millsy. Interesting to know it was supposed to have a resistor.
Do you have any lights at all on the backglass? Some games have a separate fuse for the backglass lighting.
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Hi Derek,
All backglass illumination lights working as I replaced all bulbs & sockets prior to tilt problem - ball numbers & game over lights were working prior to tilt problem - however would not go past ball 1. At least that Tilt light has gone. Will continue checking in morning & will post what I find.
Millsy
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$#$
Reset ball count relay - everything works now.
Millsy
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Kev,
If you are feeling brave might be best to totally rebuild this unit *%*
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Hi Tony,
Have learnt a lot in the last month,have a better knowledge where everything is & a rough idea how everything works.Will play machine this week & see how it goes.Will save my diagnostic skills *.*for the next machine.Have room for 2 more machines - not sure what to get next as I can only have 3 machines i was thinking maybe 1 Bally,1 Gottlieb,1 Williams.
How are your target decals going ?
Kev
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After smashing the playfield glass on the World Fair I haven't been back in the gamesroom since, glass is still on the floor :lol so no decals done yet
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At least they wer'nt backglasses ^&^
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Great work Millsy. Interesting to know it was supposed to have a resistor.
Do you have any lights at all on the backglass? Some games have a separate fuse for the backglass lighting.
Going well Millsy,
I agree with dj10555 , interesting to know that it was supposed to have a resistor.
I've seen 5 watt resistors added to some of the coils on both my GTB's , which I think were added to compensate for a " low resistance " ie: burnt coil.
You've got room for 2 more pins - Gotta get a GTB EM . *%* hey Tony.
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Steve,
Always room for more pins - even some Chicago Coins EMs are cool!
We are all like drug addicts, always looking for another hit *)*
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Hi Tony, Chicago coins. yep.
I was eyeing off a CC Casino in Sydney on ebay a while back. You would remember the one. I was very keen but didn't go with it. Maybe I should of , you don't see that many come up for sale. the 2 playfield spinning discs looked cool !@# Is it a cool game?
cheers Steve.
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Chicago coin - whats their advantages & disadvantages compared to the big 3.
Kev
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They were fairly poorly made and parts are a bitch to find. The only CC pins that I would give the ^^^ to are their games from the 60s, not just because I love that era - they actually made some nice games. The pre 65 games even had Roy Parker art.
Steve, that Casino - yeah that would be the pick of their 70s EM pins. That game got offered several times on eBay for a good price until it sold.
Sorry Kev, we have nicked your thread! #@#
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Yeah Tony, I made an offer when it didn't sell 2nd time & got a txt reply on the way to pick up the Hi-Lo Ace.
so I couldn't afford both at the time. But I'm stoked with the Hi Lo Ace, & I still owe you some beers. ( @ your meet ^^^)
Steve.