The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: Crashramp on February 10, 2014, 01:03:38 PM
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Hi all,
I’m doing a tidy up on my Kings of Steel and like many little projects, it’s grown somewhat. My goal for this game is really just to have a neat clean game which plays as well as it can. At the moment I’m tidying up the playfield but I’ve never done any airbrushing before so I have some paint questions.
Background:
- Airbrush painting of select areas of the playfield. I’m mainly using Humbrol enamels but the blue is a Tamiya enamel.
Questions:
- Once I have finished a colour should I seal it with a clear or leave it until I do the whole playfield?
- If I leave it to seal later, how long should I leave it before being able to safely tape over it to do the next colour?
- What is the best tape to use? At the moment I’ve been using 3M Scotch Blue tape.
- What’s a good clear coat to use?
- Is an Airbrush suitable to apply clearcoat or do I need a bigger spray gun?
This is where I’m up to at the moment.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/udy7ujuh.jpg)
Thanks.
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Sealing it between colours will lock in that colour.
An airbrush will take way too long to seal so you will need a spray gun or you could use automotive clear in a big spray can.
The big spray can is very convenient as you only need to seal small areas and that would be a nuisance getting your spray gun dirty just for a 2 minute job.
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What's the quality like of the automotive clear spray cans?
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What's the quality like of the automotive clear spray cans?
It's the same quality as the stuff you use in your spray gun, just in a can
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Are these hard enough to last on a playfield? - As opposed to a 2 pak clear?
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I always do touch up CC's with my airbrush.. you only want to protect it till you do a full CC.. or you can leave as just a partial CC.. choice is yours.
Be warned though.. you are using soft enamels and ANY CC that isn't oil based will eat them before your very eyes... it can only be done with conventional CC if done extremely carefully - even then, its a gamble and trust me, watching your hard work turn to melted cheese status is heartbreaking.
Only 1 CC can be used over enamel, acrylic or lacquer and that's KBS Diamond coat.
Different paints are good for different things.. acrylic lacquer is good for colour fill etc... black acrylic is good for inserts if using a stencil... Humbrol enamels are good for any hand brush line work you need to do.. these do flow beautifully from the brush.. that's how I do a PF restore.. with typically 3 types of paint.. KBS dries rock hard... harder than a 2 pac and will not eat any of the paint..
Good luck..
Gav
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I always do touch up CC's with my airbrush.. you only want to protect it till you do a full CC.. or you can leave as just a partial CC.. choice is yours.
Be warned though.. you are using soft enamels and ANY CC that isn't oil based will eat them before your very eyes... it can only be done with conventional CC if done extremely carefully - even then, its a gamble and trust me, watching your hard work turn to melted cheese status is heartbreaking.
Only 1 CC can be used over enamel, acrylic or lacquer and that's KBS Diamond coat.
Different paints are good for different things.. acrylic lacquer is good for colour fill etc... black acrylic is good for inserts if using a stencil... Humbrol enamels are good for any hand brush line work you need to do.. these do flow beautifully from the brush.. that's how I do a PF restore.. with typically 3 types of paint.. KBS dries rock hard... harder than a 2 pac and will not eat any of the paint..
Good luck..
Gav
Thanks for this post it is a great help
to solve some of the mysteries of playfied touch ups... ^^^
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I always do touch up CC's with my airbrush.. you only want to protect it till you do a full CC.. or you can leave as just a partial CC.. choice is yours.
Be warned though.. you are using soft enamels and ANY CC that isn't oil based will eat them before your very eyes... it can only be done with conventional CC if done extremely carefully - even then, its a gamble and trust me, watching your hard work turn to melted cheese status is heartbreaking.
Only 1 CC can be used over enamel, acrylic or lacquer and that's KBS Diamond coat.
Different paints are good for different things.. acrylic lacquer is good for colour fill etc... black acrylic is good for inserts if using a stencil... Humbrol enamels are good for any hand brush line work you need to do.. these do flow beautifully from the brush.. that's how I do a PF restore.. with typically 3 types of paint.. KBS dries rock hard... harder than a 2 pac and will not eat any of the paint..
Good luck..
Gav
Thanks Gav, that's great feedback there. I'll source some KBS and give it a go. Does it matter if the clearcoat goes on any of the areas which still need to be touched up? What I mean is, does it make it harder to touch up areas with clear coat applied? I ask this because I (probably stupidly) removed the tape from around the masked of touch up areas. Once I've finished all of the touch ups I will be clearing the whole playfield if that makes any difference.
Cheers
Adam
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Well you don't HAVE to CC as you go.. sometimes I do it sometimes I don't. KBS takes quite a while to dry.. probably as long as your enamels so CCing as you go will make the whole thing take quite a bit of time. Paint- any paint doesn't like smooth surfaces, it tends to peel off.
When you put tape down to mask off you are telling yourself that the paint is stuck down better than the tape.. the weaker one will always give way and it needs to be the tape.
I haven't used the blue masking tape.. its a painters tape and im not sure its perfect for the job once you have sprayed some enamel down.
A few things can help here.. you are using enamels so your colours are constant ( massive bonus) and don't vary once dry.. they do however take a long time to dry and do also like to peel like a single PVA sheet if not stuck down properly.
To help prevent this I find that Tamiya tape is the best.. not the wide 30mm stuff - that's extra tacky, but this stuff is brilliant..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tamiya-87033-87034-87035-6mm-10mm-18mm-Masking-Tape-Refill-Set-Paint-Tool-Spray-/111274448844?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Kits&hash=item19e87957cc
Because its enamel you can also add a little Penetrol.. helps your enamel stick down well.. can either wipe on the PF and allow to dry overnight, or my favourite way is to add some to your paint.
Can be bought in Bunnings etc..
http://www.paintaccess.com.au/products/flood-penetrol-paint-conditioner?gclid=CNrlwKu3wbwCFUUAvAodCSoAAg.
If you get a rough surface to your paint because you have sprayed very thinly or dryly, it collects dirt as you go and its very hard to get out again.. ive ended up repainting because of this.. when this happens you can CC - it seals the paint and if dust etc gets attached, it can be wiped off... idea is to make a smooth surface so less dust gets trapped... CC is very good for this.
But to get back to the original point, yes if you are going to partial CC then try to do it while the area is still masked.. your eye wont see CC to a line ( the black lines on the artwork).. it will see a light spray over another surface though as there will be a slight difference in the finish. But a rub back right at the start before any painting, a little Penetrol in the mix and the Tamiya tape.. you shouldn't run into any trouble at all
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That's fantastic Gav, thanks very much. It gives me a lot more confidence to keep on with it.
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Gav can correct me, but I thought penetrol doesn't work with cc. I think I read it on the can but too late to check now. Will see tomorrow for you.
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Gav can correct me, but I thought penetrol doesn't work with cc. I think I read it on the can but too late to check now. Will see tomorrow for you.
NO no.. don't use the Penetrol with the CC.. its purely for the enamel paint you are using.. will help it stick and prevent lifting
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Gavin is truly talented at this. I saw a friend send Gav a few Guns n Roses playfielfds that needed some serious work and the first one came beck with work well n above over what I thought was incredible.
The investment must have made the machine worth an extra few grand all day, cause without that paint n wear areas fixed, the machine was a project and a not wanted at all title. The paintwork n clearcoat was amazing.
This is where I realise I will never have the skill to give it a go, too much risk for me. Gavin is the man for sure. If anyone can help, it will be Gav if he is avail and not snowed under.
Good going so far. Glad u are asking for help cause the right guys are on AP.
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My :2cents:
- Once I have finished a colour should I seal it with a clear or leave it until I do the whole playfield?
If you let the paint dry, you can mask over the painted areas. Use Tamiya yellow hobby tape. I bought three reels of the three sizes from China and they were excellent quality. Clear should be applied before you start (for very bad playfields), or when you are done. sometimes you may need to lock in the touchups with a clear and then NOT continue with the next 203 coats in case you need to fix any of the touch ups.
- If I leave it to seal later, how long should I leave it before being able to safely tape over it to do the next colour?
With Arylics - 1-2 hours in summer. You can use a hair dryer to speed it up.
- What is the best tape to use? At the moment I’ve been using 3M Scotch Blue tape.
Tamiya model tape. I think Gav would have mentioned it earlier. Don't use the 3M stuff liberally as it is more expensive !
- What’s a good clear coat to use?
For EM / touch ups - I use Cabots and mix 80% gloss / 20% low sheen to flatten it and then use the airbrush without the needle. This is only for touch ups. Full CC, I use a professional to do that for me !
- Is an Airbrush suitable to apply clearcoat or do I need a bigger spray gun?
You can use an airbrush, but it will take forever and the product will start to dry and you will have problems identifying even coverage. Buy a HVLP Gun and use it ONLY for CC. I have different guns for different applications.
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and NINO has shown again with wise words why both Gavin and Nino are experts. Attention to detail during a complicated and risky process.
Just glad Gav and Nino offer professional restoration services. I would screw all that up bigtime. Glad u guys have the runs on the board with excellent and many prior successful restorations.
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Thanks for the feedback Nino, I've ordered some KBS as Gav advises since I've already started with the enamel but I'm holding off painting anymore areas until I have a go with the clear and make sure there's no adverse reactions with my paint.
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KBS diamond clear turned up yesterday and went on my test area beautifully. I applied it about 24hrs ago and it works perfectly over the enamel that I used. Thanks again for the recommendation Gav. ^^^
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I haven't done much on this game for a while until today. Once I have a colour down and dryed should I be clearing the whole playfield before coming back to do the next colour? If I do clear it do I need to sand Inbetween clearing and the next coat? Thanks.
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I haven't done much on this game for a while until today. Once I have a colour down and dryed should I be clearing the whole playfield before coming back to do the next colour? If I do clear it do I need to sand Inbetween clearing and the next coat? Thanks.
If your paint has good adhesion you can paint your next color and use tape etc on your new paint. I don't use the blue tape for my fine lines. Gav got me onto the Tamiya model tape - buy all sizes and a couple rolls. eBay has them and I bought mine from a place in China - much cheaper and it is the same quality.
I like to have a clear between major touch up work. That way, your work is safe and locked in.
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Thanks Nino, with the next colour down I'll be about halfway through so probably time to put down a layer of clear then.
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I don't clear between coats.. just restore whats needed and then clear
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I always do touch up CC's with my airbrush.. you only want to protect it till you do a full CC.. or you can leave as just a partial CC.. choice is yours.
Be warned though.. you are using soft enamels and ANY CC that isn't oil based will eat them before your very eyes... it can only be done with conventional CC if done extremely carefully - even then, its a gamble and trust me, watching your hard work turn to melted cheese status is heartbreaking.
Only 1 CC can be used over enamel, acrylic or lacquer and that's KBS Diamond coat.
Different paints are good for different things.. acrylic lacquer is good for colour fill etc... black acrylic is good for inserts if using a stencil... Humbrol enamels are good for any hand brush line work you need to do.. these do flow beautifully from the brush.. that's how I do a PF restore.. with typically 3 types of paint.. KBS dries rock hard... harder than a 2 pac and will not eat any of the paint..
Good luck..
Gav
Gav, reading up on this product, its not clear if its a 1 part or 2pack clear. Given the curing times im assuming its not a 2pack clear??
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No its not a 2 pak which relies on a catalyst to cure and so cures fast. But, it is self levelling so its very easy to get good results with little experience. you just need to make sure the PF is perfectly level before you apply. Once cured though, it is harder than a 2 pak and it hasn't affected any type of paint ive out under it.. soft enamels... acrylic lacquer and standard acrylic. For those reasons, its perfect for playfield restoration. My Amazing Spiderman is finished with this and it plays so well.. for a wide body, the ball flies about and it really lifts the game
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Thought so, and better still can be sprayed without a booth. No Isocyanides.
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My dad uses this stuff on his hand drawn clock faces... he puts it over the Rotring ink pens but doesn't have the capability to spray so uses a brush.. allows to self level and leaves to cure. He still gets a perfect finish