The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: vanhos on October 27, 2012, 03:24:22 PM
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l am currently the owner of a elektra pinball machine. after firing it up and checking out how it works and plays over past few weeks. l have came up with a few issues.
Any help in solving them would be great l'm a virgin pinball owner so this is going to be a long process at first.
l'm sparky by trade but electronics are definatley not my strong point. well l don't no anything really.
here we go any help be great. l want to solve most of these before l move this machine into the lounge room.
1. Bottom play field does not work ,lights,flippers but ball kicks out.
2. right slingshot wont work with the 2 switches but works in its test mode.
3. 8 globes are out l checked the a few found one is 12v arn't they all 6.3v 555.
4. found 2 targets don't work. haven't really looked yet.
5. left bottom flipper isn't as tight as others but still works.
6. back of the lower cabinet is stuffffeeeeedddd. needs to be fully replaced.
7. MISSION IMPOSSIBLE this one l think broken and missing plastics. bent aswell but found out the oven trick on here will try one day.
l down loaded the manual the other day for this machine.
any suggestion would be great cheers.
pics to follow once l work out how to post them.
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yep all insert and G.I. lamps should be 6.3v.
if after replacing the lamps and checking all the wiring, connections and sockets you find the lamps still don't work then i would suspect the lamp driver board.
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1. Bottom play field does not work ,lights,flippers but ball kicks out.
Check the 555 globe is working on the "Soldenoid Expander" board located under the playfield. If the 555 is not working, then the solenoids tend to play up.
2. right slingshot wont work with the 2 switches but works in its test mode.
Does the slingshot switches register in the "switch test" ?
3. 8 globes are out l checked the a few found one is 12v arn't they all 6.3v 555.
Should be 555 6.3V
4. found 2 targets don't work. haven't really looked yet.
Switch test will confirm this.
5. left bottom flipper isn't as tight as others but still works.
Probably needs a flipper rebuild. Sounds like the spring is too loose.
6. back of the lower cabinet is stuffffeeeeedddd. needs to be fully replaced.
Ireplaced the panel on the Eight Ball I'm currently restoring. Can be done with a small sheel of 20mm ply from Bunnings and the right tools !
Thats a start !
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Cheers.
I did a switch test and found two switches came up on screen.
Switch 8 which is the lower play field saucer. Its closed because the ball is constintly sitting there. The other was number 2 which is the switch after the kicker( left and right of outhole it says in the manual). Its closed but when i opened it the ball wouldnt kick out. So im not sure if it should be closed or not. But in saying that it is a switch when the ball goes over it i asume it should be closing it.
Getting back to the target switches they didnt come up on switch test as a fault. But with a meter they are closing when you lightly touch them. Since i fiddle with one it now works but the lower target 3 rd one out of the three still doesnt work during a game.
Just got my globes so will replace tomorrow.
The globe you mentioned for the lower play field is ok so i assume its something else.
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While i was looking about i found the dreaded 200 amp fuse covered in foil and it was very hot. The fuse is no5. I think its for the general illumination ( guessing thats what GI means in the book).
Just woundering were the best spot to buy 32v 20amp 3ag fuses from. Seeing we dont have electronics store anymore.
Also was thinking about buying few aligator clips running this through a 20 circuit breaker for finding the fault with the fuse. Assuming there is a fault.
I had a look through the manuall i think i can brake circuit into 4 might help in fault finding.
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you should be able to get them from Super cheap, auto barn or an auto electrician
PM me your address and i will send you a couple of 20 amp fuses if you get stuck.
Yes GI stands for general Illumination
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Replaced foil fuse its fine hasnt blown. I went through few globes found few black ones and also 12v globes. Replaced were i thought they looked to old.
Found one globe not working for a target replaced globe still no good. Also found seven glibes out on three different circuits no voltage either these were on the top cabinet right behind the elektra wording.
I checked the solinoid on expander board found 555 glibe is ok. But checked bit more. Theres a circuit through the coil. But only 22v getting to it. I belled out back to main power supply found 22v coming out of there. Ill check drawings tomorrow.
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Checked the switches on the right sling shot. Found they do not work in test mode. Changed diode and rewired bare jumper cables. Still not working in test mode. Belled out switches they seem fine. Were to next. Im not sure.
This is also the same for the 3rd middle target.
There is a brown/white cable going to both of these switches.
Not sure if this has something to do with it.
Also traced the blown globes on the back glass that are not working. Found they go to the aux lamp driver board. Followed them through to the chips all light circuits four of them go to each leg number 6 of each chip. The resistors are ok. On the jacks there labeled 1,2,3,4, cloud. On test mode i get just 1v at socket with globe removed any idea.
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On page 65 of the manual (from ipdb.org) - The right slingshot and middle drop target #3 (and lower level #5 target) on on the same row. The other switches in common are the tilt, 2 X bonus on lower level and the top target. So I would confirm all these switches are out and then I think the problem would be the entire row. That row wire is PIN 14 on J2 of the MPU. I'd check if there is any corrosion on the pins of J2. Other than that, check that there is no broken wire (brown with a white trace) to any of those switches.
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Thought id vacuum out the pinball today. As i was cleaning there it was two wires hanging in the air next to a tilt switch. Joined them up attached back to switch and bingo all the switches on that matrix now work. Brown and white cable which is what i was looking for.
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Only light issue on the backglass and lower playfield to go.
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Great to hear you're sorting this game out #*#
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I have been checking out the light issue i have with the back glass lights. There is a few that do not work on lamp test. I traced the cloud ones back to the auxillery lamp driver. I checked what is also on this aux driver. I noticed it also does all of the lower playfield lights aswell. Which also doesnt work on lamp test.
Im really not sure were to go now.
Plus im not sure how the lower play field also works. On the aux driver it also has a cable going to the sol expander board which is part of the lower playfield.
Do u think the lights which arnt working and the lower playfield not working are the same fault.or am i heading down the wrong path.
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While im posting any idea what these numbers were for enraved into the machine.
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I'd be looking at the Aux lamp driver. Check for dry joints. Check the connectors for loose wires. If you can understand schematics and you have a multimeter, you can check that power is going to the board.
Those engravings are the serial number - you are in luck - they match !
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I will have another look at au driver. The machine did glow tilt the other day after i gave it a shove with stuck ball. So the aux driver does work. Just seems wierd that its just the four cloud light circuits dont work. If checked to see if there is something in common that might cause a isdue with these four circuits.
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Has any body have two of these posts laying around or does anyone no were to buy them from. Missing a plastic and these posts ball gets stuck all the time starting to annoy me.. Just the posts i have chrome caps not white ones.
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Time to get serious....
This lower playfield not working has to get fixed. I have checked the globe wich is fine and has been replaced.im going to refolw the expander board in next few days... Is there any other ideas i can look at.
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Time to get serious....
This lower playfield not working has to get fixed. I have checked the globe wich is fine and has been replaced.im going to refolw the expander board in next few days... Is there any other ideas i can look at.
Have you checked the globe holder ? Are these #555 or #44 / #47 globes ?
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While im posting any idea what these numbers were for enraved into the machine.
The first E stands for Electronic EL stands for Electra The E part came from when they changed from electromechanical to electronics
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555... Ill give the lamp holder a once over but pretty sure its fine.
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555... Ill give the lamp holder a once over but pretty sure its fine.
How did the reflow of the Aux Lamp driver go ?
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Checked out the two small aux driver boards. Found one cracked solder joint on a pin. Then found this small link between two pins on the other board i removed the link. Turned it back on then the middle playfield gi didnt work so put it back in.
Looking at the wiring diagram im pretty sure its not sposed to be there.
Also i checked out that 555 globe hidden next to the solinoide board. I noticed some wiring had been changed. So im a bit confused on it all looks like i have a bit of wiring to follow and some more looking at the drawings.
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Any body no were i can get bally springs for the elektra pinball machine noticed they were all shot.
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The small board is the "AUX Driver G.I. Flasher" board - AS-2518-68
Solenoid Expander is the board with the relay and #44 globe - AS-2518-66
The Aux Lamp Driver board is in the head - AS-2518-52. It is a rectangular shape.
Springs have different part numbers for different assemblies. I can look them up for you if you tell me which assemblies ?
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The solonoid board has the 555 globe next to it. Not 44 should it be a 44. Also should the globe be on all the time. At them moment it doesnt work at all. I remove the globe and test between globe holder and its a dead short.
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Hey hi been a bit busy but back on the elektra lower playfeild issue.
I have been told there could be a triac on the power supply board wich could be causing the issue. (No idea were they are what they do or we're they are on the drawings).
I decided to pullout the board and have a look. I noticed some dodgy solder joints on the board Reflowed som joins and I put it back together. Now the flippers don't work.
In saying that in the last few months when powering up the machine it takes at least 20 sec longer to fire up. Then when I played it some times it goes blank then starts up again, or the flippers didn't work for a sec or too.
See pics of board.
So few issues now not just the cloud lights and the lower playfeild. Fun fun fun.
Any ideas out there.
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so essentially you messed with it and now it doesnt work ? ;-)
remember the heatsink compound when you put the board back in.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#How_To_Properly_Mount_a_Bally_AS-2518-54_Rectifier_Board
now first what are the test point voltages ( d/c the outputs).
here you go .. read the guide and follow the bouncing ball
http://callkck.com/pin/BS7785.zip
then unarchive it and BS7785-1/index1.htm#ps
pretty sure you will know how to test a Bridge rectifier with a meter .. if not youtube has videos ( remember its 4 diodes in a box) - Start there and go through the machine step by step
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if all of your test point voltages test fine i would suspect the pin headers on the driver board and / or the cpu for the flippers not working.
also the pins in the housings that are on the wiring loom that connect the wires to these pins may need replacing.
when you press the start button can you here the flipper relay on the driver board (the board to the top right of the back box, the one with the big black heat sink on it)
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listen to beaky not me - hes forgotten more than i'll ever know.
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listen to beaky not me - hes forgotten more than i'll ever know.
thanks but there is no use checking any connectors on the boards in the back box until he has verified all the voltages are right on the rectifier board like you have suggested ^^^
as the board says there are HIGH VOLTAGES present so take care when poking around with your multimeter
also Strangeways has had a lot of experience with these machines so he has some very good pointers to follow also
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Probably at the point where the game might need to be looked at. The fuse holders might be fatigued as well.
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vanhos is a sparky from memory .. so he's safe in the high voltage section.
i'm easily bribed if you want help reworking the boards vanhos but its nothing you cant handle if you go step by step methodical approach
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Thanks guys. I will check out all the test points and get back to you. I will check the power supply first.
Currently relaxing on the murry river. But will be back in the icy cold weather of home on Saturday.
I have noticed a few other small issues as well but baby steps first.
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i turned on the machine today and did some tests.
MPU
t1 5v
t2 14.6v
t3 23.4v
t5 5v
solonoid driver
t1 5v
t2 182v
t3 5v
t4 260v
t5 14v
lamp driver
5v
as-2518-54
t1 8.3v
t2 261v
t3 16.3v
t4 6.7v ac
t5 47v
at the fuses on the as-2518-54 both sides.
f1 5.7v ac
f2 109v ac
f3 7.5v ac
f4 29.6v ac
f5 6.5v ac
i also noticed the score registering points on the outhole kicker and other switches giving a lot higher scores than normal still no flippers.
what do you guys think
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Any body no the part number for these posts and rubbers. Struggling to find some. As the plastic on the right was missing when I bought it plus the posts.
Any body have any for sale or better still send me in the right direction.
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Hey hi guys was cleaning out my elektra the other day and I noticed these (triacs aren't they) one is on a angle not sure if its buggered or not. Also one of these controls the lower playfields doesn't it.
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So I got all my boards back from the magician ( beaky). Installed them and all faults have been rectified. Apart from a bent switch and the lower playfield issue. With the switch adjusted I can now consintrate on this dam lower playfeild.
Here is what I no now:
555 globe is new. (Needed for relay to work)
Relay works fine. Beaky tested it. (See below)
Replaced both triacs on the power supply plate. (See pics)
Traced all cabling as per drawing. Seems fine.
Replaced test switch for lower flippers.
Both small expander boards have been reconditioned.
So when the game goes into elektra mode both top and middle gi turns off. (CORRECT)
But no lights come on (lower playfeild) or the lower flippers don't work. However the ball kicks out and targets register during the elektra mode time.
Here is the interesting part. I put the machine into switch test mode (for solonoieds) and pressed the test button under the playfeild. Bingo or do I say confused one of the gi globes on the lower playfeild lights up. I can hear the relay click and the 555 globe turns on aswell with every press. But no flippers.
So I'm thinking I have wiring issues. Any ideas.
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This is the globe that turns on instead of the flippers.
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Update.
Played around today and now in sw test mode on solonoieds with the under playfeild switch held in the same arrow light comes on plus when I press each flipper button I get the lower playfeild flippers to work ( there is a sequence of all solonoieds in test mode so I hade to wait to test either side).
Also I run up over 20 elektra points and then let the ball finish so I could see if it went to elektra mode (lower playfeild) still no action. But when I held in the test button ( under the playfeild ) I could use the bottom flippers (top flippers stopped working).
So I'm thinking the relay is not getting a signal to switch over in elektra mode. I will study the drawings tonight.
Still not sure why the arrow lights up and nothing else does.
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Sorry haven't read the whole thread but my lower Playfield didn't work when I got it and it turned out to be a blown globe under the Playfield. If the globe is blown the relay doesn't work. So look under the boat field fr a globe socket just screwed there and replace the globe.
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Yep globe is fine. Also lights up when in test sw mode.
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Update 2.
Couldn't help myself and after tea I went and checked on a few things. There was some electrical tape wrapped around a bunch of cables in behind the back glass so I decided to pull it off and see whats under neith, to my suprise nothing ahhhh ( for sure I thought Brocken wires fix them up and every thing would work).
So no idea why the tape was there. But while I was looking I noticed there was a group of cables coming off the side of the GI door then going into a connector then going back onto the GI door!!!! I opened them up and found the pin configuration was different to each other. I was confused (pulling my hair out here) I then stuck my hand down the hole in the back box into the base and low and behold I found another group of cables coming up from the base going into connectors then going back down into the base. I pulled these apart and noticed different configurations again. I then matched these up to the other cables coming of the GI door, cable colours matched to. So I plugged them together matching each pin configuration cable colours matched too well 90% of colours match.
Turned game on and played a game all good no difference to anything until I went into elektra mode (still nothing) I pressed the test sw under the playfield now the mystery arrow does not lite up.
So I'm assuming these connectors should of been connected in there new configuration instead of back feeding through each other. (Hope every one is understanding this)
I'm hoping with the cables back feeding I have not damaged any boards or equipment.
After all this I'm still chasing the lower playfield issue.
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Few voltages.
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Fuse x 1
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quote from one of your above posts
"Also I run up over 20 elektra points and then let the ball finish so I could see if it went to elektra mode (lower playfeild) still no action. But when I held in the test button ( under the playfeild ) I could use the bottom flippers (top flippers stopped working)."
do the bottom flippers still work when you press the button or do they no longer work?
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Bottom flippers work in elektra mode only when holding in the test button. No lights at all with or without test button.
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When you go into lamp test does the relay click?
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Yep clicks and lights up.
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!@#. WTF
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Yep meto. Had beaky ^^^ ^^^ on the phone. Few discussions we may have sorted it out. That's a big may. Will post the results once investigations are completed. ()
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While waiting for the board to be repaired. I did a bit of carpentry.
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So I think I have sorted out the lower playfield issue.
After beakys magic touch it is all working.
This is a lesson in triple checking. I found that some of the harness wiring was connected to the wrong plugs (on the harness). I never really checked the machine when I bought it just thought all the plugs were plugged together so they looked fine.
What I found was the aux lamp board cables on the back of the back glass door were connected together. So the CPU was telling the aux board to do this and that which was fine, but the cabling was basically back feeding itself and blowing up the ic chips on the aux board.
The cables were in a mess tied up so never noticed plus the other ends were also joined together and sitting in the bottom above the speaker so I never seen them till I started fishing around.
So lesson learnt double even triple check.
So it's great to have a fully working machine now just a bit of tidying up to do with the harness and straighten a few switches and bingo done.
Not sure if I will paint the cabinet tho as its a lot of work I did notice they have stencils now for this machine.
Thanks heaps every one for your tips and advice.
Also a big ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ thumps up for beaky the magician.
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What a relief!! Shame you did not notice it earlier - they were some very strange symptoms you were getting ^&^
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glad its all sorted
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Slowly getting through all the faults on this machine. Just sorted out a solonoid issue. But now after I have completed all the problems another one appears. I swear these things are just like a used car......
I'm assuming this is a switch problem but at the start of the game the machine kicks out both balls. I haven't checked the kick out switches (don't no the technical term). Any body have any ideas in regards to this will be checking out the issue tomorrow night.
I have noticed however the middle switch in the kick out lane has always been dodgy so I will start there. It's a old switch and the wire bracket is a bit dodgy too.
Currently have two balls in the machine.