The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: Slash on May 15, 2013, 07:40:51 PM
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Well I finally bought my second pin, I had been looking for a "project" either EM or SS for a while and finally purchased a Gottlieb Buck Rogers. I don't pick it up until Sunday week (pics will follow when I get it) but I wanted to get started with the ordering process of a new board/s for it.
The existing ones are basically stuffed (battery leakage and hacked to death) so rather than flop around trying to fix them or diagnose problems with my limited knowledge, I figured I would just completely replace them. What are peoples thoughts, do I get the NiWumpf or the Pascal all in one board PI-1X4?
I am leaning towards the Pascal board since it's all in one. I know they are not cheap but before buying the game I was already factoring in spending some dollars on the boards to make it much more reliable. If it's the Pascal do I also get the the P1-FX/X4 Soundboard to plug in directly to the all in one board? What does this board do since the all in one basically replaces the power supply + driver board + sound board (3-tone) on 1 single board. Does this get me extra sounds or something?
Also would I still need to do the ground modifications I read about for these games if I replace all the boards with one of the above?
I apologise in advance for any dumb questions and also thank the contributors to this site for always sharing their technical knowledge and advice/help. Without that I would never have the balls to take on a project pin. I know I will have lots more questions down the track as I start work on the playfield, cabinet and other bits and pieces. !@)
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Congrats on the purchase - a fun game.
I lean towards Pascal boards as they are "all in one" and most chips are socketed. No ground mods are required other than one small screw in terminal on the board - that's easy !
The "PI-FX/X4" is suited to BR. I bought one for a Genie I restored a while ago and it was a huge improvement.
Now a word of caution - the connector pins will most likely be tarnished of corroded. These should be replaced. If they are corroded, then the corrosion will creep up on your new board.
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I'd just go the pascal all in one board there a wonderful thing have installed half a dozen without issue. I've never needed the add on soundboard so I can't help you there has anyone used the add on sound board?
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Now a word of caution - the connector pins will most likely be tarnished of corroded. These should be replaced. If they are corroded, then the corrosion will creep up on your new board.
Thanks for the info. Yes I was expecting I would probably have the tedious task of replacing the connector pins. I never considered the corrosion creeping up into the new board tho, but it maks sense now you mention it. I guess to be thorough I should probably look at replacing them all rather than just any suspect looking ones.
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Definitely go for the Pascal all in one board. The additional sound is relatively inexpensive and worth while getting. It will give you some modified sounds. I have a Ni Wumpf board and whilst it does it's job, I have had an issue with it which eventually got sorted out by the developer after some 'guess' work. To be honest, I wouldn't stuff around with reconditioning the other boards just to add a Ni Wumpf again.
I would thoroughly recommend the Pascal board without any hesitation whatsoever - I have 3 of them in Sys 1 machines now and wouldn't use anything else. They give you a heap of extras such as ball save, much better light show, skill shot, 5 x highest scores with the ability to add initials plus more.
Oh, have fun replacing the contacts, an essential but very time consuming job.
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Good luck and have fun with the restoration. I'll be watching on with much interest, I'd love a Buck Rogers. Its definitely on my want list. Is this the one from eBay recently?
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Cheers, yeah i like the theme, was a fan of Buck Rogers when i was a kid, plus the backglass has a nice chick on it. %.%. Thought it would be a project which would give me a taste of everything too and keep me busy for quite a while.
The seller had it on AA first then while we were discussing it also listed it on eBay but subsequently pulled the auction after I agreed to buy it. So it probably was the one you saw on there.
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Cheers, yeah i like the theme, was a fan of Buck Rogers when i was a kid, plus the backglass has a nice chick on it. %.%. Thought it would be a project which would give me a taste of everything too and keep me busy for quite a while.
The seller had it on AA first then while we were discussing it also listed it on eBay but subsequently pulled the auction after I agreed to buy it. So it probably was the one you saw on there.
Yep, that was the one. I'd have been all over that auction if the machine was closer but well done to you. ^^^
The theme really appeals to me too for the same reasons and the art work also looks great. I also really like the way the system one machines play, so for me this title has everything going for it. I'm sure it'll be a ripper when your done restoring it.
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Great buy. Nice spacey sounds , and awesome back glass!! Nice
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If you get the plug in sound board with the all in one board Pascal will give it to you at a cheaper price than buying it separately, you don't end up saving that much not getting it.
With the plug in sound board you can use any sound scheme from any of the supported games.
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Thanks for the info, I think I'll go ahead and get both of the Pascal's then.
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Thanks for the info, I think I'll go ahead and get both of the Pascal's then.
You won't regret it ^^^
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Hey Slash did you buy Narf's Buck Rodgers project game off him?
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Yeah that's the one.
Is there something I should know about it? Haha
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Well I finally bought my second pin, I had been looking for a "project" either EM or SS for a while and finally purchased a Gottlieb Buck Rogers. I don't pick it up until Sunday week (pics will follow when
Number two hey, congrats.
Then there we three? %.% man these lil bastards breed quick hey, careful and good luck with the resto mate. I remember the TV show, not the pin. How about a few pics?
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Cheers.
I'm happy for them to breed the wife is less happy, although mainly due to space. Until we move house (hopefully within the next 1-2 years), I will probably be limited to a max of 3 pins.
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Good one Slash! being a Buck Rogers owner myself i'm looking forward to seeing pics and the resto thread *%*
I've had mine for about 20 years, brought it back from the dead and fully restored it.. there's a resto thread on here somewhere for it.
Mine's a keeper always *%* I always loved the sounds on this game. The noise it makes everytime it scores in the hundreds almost sounds like its talking! i've had people over who have played mine and heard that sound and asked "what's it saying?" :lol
BTW.. i dont think you'll wanna stop at three machines!! *.* *.*
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I had done a search previously and seen your resto thread. You did an awesome job. I. Sure I will have some questions for you.
Was curious about the lacquer you put on the back glass. Is that something I should look at to prevent any further peeling etc.
I also loved the way you replicated the splattered/speckled effect on the cabinet restencil.
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So I picked up the game yesterday after a nice 4 hour round trip down to the southwest. Here's the first lot of photos. It's going to keep me quite busy for quite some time I suspect. But that's good because that's what I wanted too.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/o8easl.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/312zac1.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/ern0pe.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2s139k3.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2ed1c1w.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2rxcmbk.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2vwd1ci.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/31775s9.jpg)
Pascal all in one board has been ordered to replace all of these
(http://i41.tinypic.com/e991zc.jpg)
mmmm toasty
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2vlm8u9.jpg)
This looks like the quality type of soldering I would do *)*
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2lnbjq.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/dyu13t.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/168ztwy.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/111tbtu.jpg)
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(http://i39.tinypic.com/scufqq.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/fp851w.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/qzqbua.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2m03yc.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2ui81op.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/w7o4zn.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/bi9hza.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2nv3sx0.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2wo94ie.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2v0oc90.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/5dqvzd.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/538ehh.jpg)
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Well I wanted a restore that would give me a good taste of all the different aspects you could encounter during a restoration and this game will certainly give me that. That said I'm still deciding where to start.
Once the new board arrives I was wondering whether I should try and get it up and running first then go about tearing it down and restoring/rebuilding it, or whilst it's somewhat disassembled now just continue stripping it down and cleaning and repairing/replacing stuff leaving the boards and that side of things until last.
I was thinking about starting on fixing the issues with the playfield first, raised/sunken inserts and paint touchups.
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Playfield looks pretty good . Good luck with the resto
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Playfield looks pretty good . Good luck with the resto
It's got Mylar over the bottom half of the playfield which has helped protect it. Just have to decide whether I attempt to remove that or not.
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Great looking game, and a very nice player too.
The biggest favour you can do the game (and yourself) would be to re-pin all of the board connectors. This will remove many, many gremlins and ensure that when the Pascal plugs in, most faults will be confined to playfield issues rather than connectors (which are notoriously full of issues and make tracking down issues much harder).
Labourious process, but I can't tell you how worthwhile - first job I do on any Gottlieb.
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Great looking game, and a very nice player too.
The biggest favour you can do the game (and yourself) would be to re-pin all of the board connectors. This will remove many, many gremlins and ensure that when the Pascal plugs in, most faults will be confined to playfield issues rather than connectors (which are notoriously full of issues and make tracking down issues much harder).
Labourious process, but I can't tell you how worthwhile - first job I do on any Gottlieb.
+1
Also - having a look at the driver board - make sure you test every coil in your machine before installing the Pascal board *%*
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By the look of the pics you've done well. plenty to work with there, I'm sure it'll come up beautifully.
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So I managed to get the mylar off. The only thing I used was white spirit - thank you for the advice Retropin. Although I still need to clean up the remnants of glue left behind.
Early stages
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2ptdw2d.jpg)
Mylar now off
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2wn1qtv.jpg)
This area here was the one main part where I lost paint. I don't know why other than maybe the glue here on the mylar was stronger or something. This part was painful to remove compared to anywhere else. There was very little paint lost anywhere else in comparison except for here.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/30vylg6.jpg)
Have a look at this. See the big long white line in the black area. That was where whoever the clown was that put the mylar on went around cutting the edge of it to shape with a Stanley knife or something similar. There were a couple of other areas like it too.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/dz8f7p.jpg)
One of the next jobs before touching up will be to start to address these things. Where I removed the wire guide rails quite a few areas the wood has "popped" up. I assume just sanding it flat then repainting is all I need to do? There are also lots of ball swirl marks around the top of the playfield I need to address. I read everyone talking about Magic Eraser as the best solution for these?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/6hrker.jpg)
Any advice on how to get rid of the ball travel line in the shoot lane and at the top like this?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/33ddqph.jpg)
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Good job getting the Mylar off Marcus, now the fun begins with the touch ups.
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Hi Slash
Its great to see a Buck R project I play it at Mitches and its a lot of fun #*#
It would probaly challange most of us, with the p f touch up. Have you considered using water slide decals on Inserts text ect and would you install new mylar
Buck dose have some cool old sounds and its a game from my past
Im looking fwd to your progress Howzat
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Thanks for your interest Howzat.
Maybe it's my niavety that thinks I can pull off all the playfield touch ups. Mixing the colours right has me concerned tho. But at the end of the day its not like the game is a MM or something, so if I totally screw it up its not the end of the world, I only paid $650 for the game.
I have never looked into water slide decals? Although its only one insert that needs fixing the rest is really just block colours and bits here and there. can they be used on other areas of the playfield?
I don't plan on installing new Mylar, I was thinking I would like to clear it with something like acrylic clear or polyurethane (something I can attempt myself). But I am trying to get my head around the order of doing it. Do I sand it once, then put one coat of the clear on first before doing any touch ups, then clear again etc etc. so much to learn. !@#
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I fixed up the inserts today. Each one was only held in place with one dollop of glue in one spot. No wonder they lifted or sunk!!
I ended up taking every single one of them out just to be thorough. I didn't need to use any heat to remove them either. The ones that had been under the mylar already had a healthy dose of isopropyl alcohol when I was removing that which I assume helped loosen the glue, but even the other ones higher up in the playfield, all I did was spray them with some isopropyl then give it some persuasion from behind with a socket tool.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/5e6c5w.jpg)
I sanded the plain ones (these were also the ones that were sunken the most). I used wet dry sand paper on them of 400, then 600 then 1,200. They came up noticeably different after that being done (you can see the bottom 3 I have done in the following pic as a comparison). The ones with writing on I just polished up with Novus 2 & 3.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2n1xs1e.jpg)
Here's a pic of the main ones that were sunken badly reinstalled. Obviously when I do my playfield touchups I will go around and do the black circles around all the inserts again. I did notice some of the other ones with writing on were ever so slightly concave, but trying to get them flat would have meant sanding off the lettering. I guess if I do go ahead and put some type of clear coat on the playfield when I finish then this shouldn't be an issue.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/19pe9t.jpg)
I also had a package arrive during the week:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/fz9r2x.jpg)
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where did you get the isopropyl from? I can only find it in little squirt bottles in bunnings.
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That's the only one I have too, the little 125ml one from Bunnings in the squirt bottle. They didn't seem to have any bigger size, next time I'm down there I will be picking up another bottle I think, the stuffs very handy!
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Looking better already, it's all of those little things which add up to make the final product so good.
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What about rubbing alcohol like Isocol? That is isopropyl isn't it and readily available from the supermarket?
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I think I recall a method to fix the concave inserts. Pretty sure they filled the divot up with super glue or similar and then sanded it flat. No need to remove the artwork that is already on the insert. Pretty sure it may have been in the EM section of the old pinrepair guides.
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I vaguely recall seeing that method somewhere too. Although the one or two that feel like they could be slightly concave aren't really that bad, a ball couldn't get stuck on them, so I will probably just play it safe and leave them coz its so minor. Plus if i eventually seal the playfield with some type of clear coat I would imagine that should help too.
I wonder if the inserts go milky or you get tiny airbubbles using that glue method?
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Email on it's way to you with more info about the super glue method.
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Great work so far there Slash .
You are lucky the inserts came out easily .. I have done inserts on a couple of EM playfields now and certainly not my favorite job .
Keep the progress pics and story coming ^^^
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Ok my next step in this process is the playfield touch ups. This is a step where I start to get in over my head and would definitely appreciate some advice.
I'm looking around for an airbrush and appropriate bits and pieces and after reading other threads on the topic of paints I'm thinking of taking Retropins advice in other threads and trying some Humbrol Enamel paints. How do I decide if I need matte or gloss paints?
I also want to finish the playfield with some type of clear coat that I can spray myself, can you generally use an airbrush used for playfeld touchups (with a different nozzle) for this purpose too?
Finally what type of clear finish should I consider, baring in mind a numpty will be doing it, plus I need to make sure it doesn't react adversely with my choice of touch up paint (hence why i need to think about this upfront too). I read in some other threads Retropin suggesting polyurethane as a possibility? But I'm open to suggestions?
This whole thing coud be quite entertaining ( how badly I could screw this up) so I will be sure to continue to document my comedy with pics. Whatever happens I'm having fun and learning stuff, so that's a good thing.
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For the clear coat have a look at this product .
http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/KBS-Diamond-Finish-ClearCoat-_p_30.html
I have seen 2 guys playfields now, done with this and you sure wouldn't know it was a backyarder job done with a roller (or brush) .
There's a couple of threads on Aussie Arcade about it , can't remember if its been documented here or not .
I intend using it on my Black Hole when I finally get around to working on that project.
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Thanks for the link, I've been reading up on some threads about it and I'm sold on giving it a try. Still surprised he was able to use a roller with it and it essentially self levelled. Very impressive finish for something not sprayed on!
My only issue will be making sure it doesn't react with my choice of touch up paint, not sure how I can check on its compatibility with say enamel touch up paint?
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KBS is the only CC i use these days.. i did do a thread on it way back but buggered if i can find it now.
Ive used it over enamel.. acrylic and acrylic lacquer... hasnt reacted with any paints so far.. but... i wouldnt roller it as you cannot guarantee that it wont trap bubbles.. spray or brush are OK, just make sure PF is dead level before applying as it self levels.
Drying time is akin to polyurathane.. cant touch it for at least 24 hours... fully hardened after 7 days
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Sounds like in the threads I was reading he did get some tiny bubbles from pushing too hard with the rollover. But sanding then a cut and polish got rid of them.
Have you tried a brush, does it not leave noticeable strokes/lines or do the self levelling properties tend to make that somewhat of a non issue? One other question that wasn't clear from the threads I read, is it advisable to give the playfield a light sand first to help it bond or it doesn't matter?
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My paragon restore I used a 2pak clear called armor coat gave the Playfield a couple of coats sanded flat added extra to any sunken inserts left dry then sanded flat again till it was level then gave it another coat for good luck then light block sand and a polish came up pretty well.
This was done with a gravity feed spray gun
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Sounds like in the threads I was reading he did get some tiny bubbles from pushing too hard with the rollover. But sanding then a cut and polish got rid of them.
Have you tried a brush, does it not leave noticeable strokes/lines or do the self levelling properties tend to make that somewhat of a non issue? One other question that wasn't clear from the threads I read, is it advisable to give the playfield a light sand first to help it bond or it doesn't matter?
Have seen results for brush method and its damn good with no lines at all.
Its always best to lightly sand anything you are painting or clearing so the product has a rougher surface to bind to
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Well I pulled apart the rest of the bits left on the playfield this weekend - pop bumpers, switches, apron and 3 wood bits/rails. I wanted to start cleaning hard the rest of the playfield in order to get ready for touching it up. Here was a nice toasty surprise under the apron:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/5d92p.jpg)
I sanded then buffed most if it out. The last bit of burn was not coming out as it was burnt from the side so was obviously very deep. Doesn't really matter though since it's covered by the apron:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/33lms1s.jpg)
My airbrush and compressor arrived during the week plus bought a heap of Hembrol paints too. Just waiting for my frisket so I can get started with the touch ups.
Before that though I wanted to attack the shooter lane and ball arch at the top. There were horrible ball lines all the way that went right down the shooter lane too.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2mdj4hj.jpg)
I masked off the artwork at the top of the playfield then went to town with sandpaper trying to get the ball trail out. %.% I got a tonne of it out but a couple of bits just seem too deep so I don't want to keep sanding a groove in the playfield so I will attempt to paint any remaining bits out. I'm not entirely happy with it yet so will keep playing with it. At the same time I'm not expecting this pin to come out like a HEP or something, just better than when I got it.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2j2i87t.jpg)
The groove in the shooter lane looks terrible with ground in dirt though and nothing is going to change that (already tried sanding it). The only solution I see is to paint it, but my question is what colour? Do I go for a wood colour? I'm sure I have even seen pins with the groove painted black. Sure I could leave it but I figure leaving it will make it look more noticeable than painting it. So any comments/suggestions on how to deal with the groove in the shooter lane would be appreciated.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/32zjix5.jpg)
One final question, the play field had these 2 nails in the outlanes, right where the outlane meets the apron at a 45 degree angle. Can anyone tell me what purpose they serve being in there?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2qtzj7s.jpg)
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Spent some time polishing up some of the trim and other bits. The big semi circle part from the top of the playfield was looking pretty ordinary. I think whatever it was plated in was starting to flake off. Problem was that was only in parts of it were, the other parts of the coating were still holding onto it fine. This resulted in a two tone look. I spent AGES sanding it starting as low as 40 grit to try and get the bloody thing off. Anyhow it eventually came up better than it was. I may go back and hit it again with 400 grit and move upwards again to see if I can get a slightly better finish and get rid of the remaining grain.
On a separate note I'm in the process of rebuilding the flippers (something I've never done before). Bloody hell what is it with Gottlieb and that pivot pin holding the pawl in place that you have to hammer out with a punch Damn that was annoying and a stupid design IMHO.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2z4eeme.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2r6d4bk.jpg)
After sanding with 40 grit, then 80 grit, then 180 grit, then 400 wet dry, then 600 wet dry then 1,200 wet dry. ^&^
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2hpod9u.jpg)
I also got a new toy.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2u9nw9w.jpg)
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Coming along nicely.
One final question, the play field had these 2 nails in the outlanes, right where the outlane meets the apron at a 45 degree angle. Can anyone tell me what purpose they serve being in there?
In answer to that question....I have zero knowledge in this area but I suspect that the nails were placed there to prevent the ball getting stuck. In my mind the game was built but certain spots in the game trapped the ball so the solution was to place the nails. That's my thought anyway.
Keep the pics coming....love to see the progress made.
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Pretty good progress so far.
You did a nice job with the sanding/polishing of the top arch ball guide ^^^ these things nearly always have the chrome flaking off like that.
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Small update, I lightly cleaned the backglass where I could then just sealed it with Krylon Triple Thick. I wasn't able to clean it quite as well as I would have liked as some bits where just too delicate to even attempt to clean.
I then used a blade to scrape off the blue film on the score panel windows, since the displays had obviously rested against them and burnt some of it off. I then installed some new blue films.
I also put new decals on the shooter lane and apron since the old one was scratched and smudged. I sanded them back first then resprayed them and then put the decal on. I did the shooter lane one first which turned out fine. I then did the apron and had a problem - it bubbled after about the 3rd or 4th day????
It obviously goes on wet (water and a bit of detergent) then I squeeze as much out as possible once the decal is in place then it gradually dries. The strange thing was for the first 2-3 days you could see the milky water gradually drying and disappearing from under the decal (in the same way as when I did the shooter lane one), but then suddenly I checked it about 3 or 4 days after application and those ripples appeared. I don't know if a change in temp might have caused it, the day prior was VERY hot. Obviously I will buy a new one and try it again but I don't want the same thing to happen again. Any thoughts? Was it maybe too wet under there??
As for the playfield, I am still SLOWLY touching that doing one colour every week or so. Having 2 kids (age 1 and 3) means I get about 1-2 hours each weekend only to work on the pinny. I gotta say I wish I could just buy a new playfield and use that instead!!!!
(http://i44.tinypic.com/415ps.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/e9awb5.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/29wmqtj.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/oa915w.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/103d9bk.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/jl6mme.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/211uh6a.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2n9xm2u.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/dey90o.jpg)
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I also put new decals on the shooter lane and apron since the old one was scratched and smudged. I sanded them back first then resprayed them and then put the decal on. I did the shooter lane one first which turned out fine. I then did the apron and had a problem - it bubbled after about the 3rd or 4th day????
How long did you let the paint dry for before putting the decal on?
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Ahhhh I think you have just answered my question thank you. It was only about 1-2 days.
Judging by your question did I not wait long enough for any gas/vapours coming off the paint to dissipate before applying the decal? It would explain too why it didn't bubble immediately but only showed up on about the 3 day, I'm guessing by then enough had accumulated to force the decal to rise?
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Well I have been slowly plugging away with my restore still, although having an 18 month old and a 3 year old often means time is at a premium. I will try and post some update pics soon of where I am at but in the meantime I was after some advice please.
I am not redoing the cabinet since there is no stencil for this game available, consequently I want to know whether I should touch up these couple of areas or just leave them? Obviously if I paint them black there won't be any "speckle effect" in that area plus the new paint will probably standout. What's worse leaving it or touching it up?
(http://i43.tinypic.com/kbzspg.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/24xi6nk.jpg)
Similarly, one side of the cabinet is really good the other side at the front end is dodgy like this. Should I touch it up or leave it?
(http://i42.tinypic.com/fve9g4.jpg)
Finally, this pin must have been sited in a rough location since someone decided to add this to it presumably so they could chain it down. lol Should I just leave it there or attempt to rip out the metal and fix it. There is one screw that goes through to the front of the cabinet too, so that would have to be filled and painted over, the rest wouldn't be readily visible since it's inside and under the cabinet?
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2rz4cpi.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/sxf4mo.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/29ntj42.jpg)
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WOW it's moving along nicely , good to see the life put back into this game. @@*
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Hi Slash
Have you thought about makeing stencils with tracing paper? Im no expert at this but trace using baking paper and transfere onto cardboard using carbon paper
Your cab dose look knocked around
If you where to do this you would adress a lot of your problems but it is a lot of work
Something to think about Howzat
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Yeah I'm in 2 minds with the cab. The rest of it is really quite fine in comparison but that part is quite bad. With the cab basically empty now is really the time to do it. Was thinking of getting a custom stencil from Twisted Pins if I do since I don't trust my DIY skills to make one.
One of my big concerns is getting the side rails off without wrecking them I have NFI how to get the screws out cleanly, so if I do mess them up I don't believe I can buy new ones, at least I haven't seen any for sale?
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I used a TwistedPins custom stencil for the Star Trek: Mirror Universe cabinet.
I would only recommend their stencils for a complete repaint of a cabinet.
1) The stencil will lift paint if it's even marginal. I had their stencil lift toner off of a water slide decal... so loose paint = no.no.
2) Their stencils are single use only. Get it right the first time; no chance to reuse the stencil later as the material self-distructs when you remove it.
I traced my artwork and sent it to them... after getting it ready in my computer.
PERSONALLY; I'd use some blue painters tape and a xacto blade and mask off the colored areas and just reapply the black paint.
The art looks to be in pretty good shape.
Getting the side rails off... I'm assuming they are similar to the Bally's of this era.
I did mind my pushing a plastic drywall putty knife between the wood and the rail at the screws. Then using a prying movement loosen the nail enough so you can get pliers and/or a hammer claw under it. Then pull the screw out.
Once you'r ready to replace the side rail; you can buy the nails themselves from PinballLife
or PBR or even Mcmaster-Carr.com. I'm trying some new nails from McmasterCarr on my MirrorUniverse; so we'll see how they work.
Anyway; PBR has them as:
Siderail Nails (#GTB-FA-701) $0.18
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where did you get the isopropyl from? I can only find it in little squirt bottles in bunnings.
Try Television Replacements in Doncaster Vic, I get 1 litre bottles from there.
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Those playfield nails are used so that when the ball drains through an outlane, it hits the nail and "diverts" towards the outhole. The ball does not slam into the apron !
Stencils - Ask Retropin (Gavin) if he has plans for this title, or if he can make you a set. He is the licensed Gottlieb stencil guy. His stencils are by far the best on the market. I've know that he has created stencils for some games to CORRECT mistakes made by other stencil manufacturers. From a professional standpoint, I can't afford to use inaccurate and badly drawn stencils. Can't wait for the full Paragon set !
With this cabinet, if the stencils are not going to be made, you can make your own using tracing paper, acetate sheets and about 50 hours of creating them. I've done it a couple of times years ago with good results.
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Stencils - Ask Retropin (Gavin) if he has plans for this title, or if he can make you a set. He is the licensed Gottlieb stencil guy. His stencils are by far the best on the market. I've know that he has created stencils for some games to CORRECT mistakes made by other stencil manufacturers. From a professional standpoint, I can't afford to use inaccurate and badly drawn stencils. Can't wait for the full Paragon set !
With this cabinet, if the stencils are not going to be made, you can make your own using tracing paper, acetate sheets and about 50 hours of creating them. I've done it a couple of times years ago with good results.
I made my own stencils when i restored my Buck Rogers. I used white cardboard for the stencil material, traced the designs on the cab onto tracing paper (one tracing for each colour) then transferred that onto the cardboard.. i think i placed the tracing over the cardboard and just cut straight thru the tracings into the cardboard from memory, rather than tracing onto the cardboard with carbon paper. Takes a lot of time, and Buck is one of the more intricate stencils to trace/cut that i have done.
I still have the stencils i made for mine (i have kept every set i have ever made) and they can be reused several times. Unfortunately they are not the kind of thing i can roll up and pack into a tube to send to someone to use, as they need to be stored flat, and rolling them up would render them unusable.
As Nino suggest, contacting Gavin might be your best bet unless you want to have a go at making them yourself.
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. For now I think I will attempt some minor touch ups first and see how they look. If they look too obvious and crap then I might look to stencil it. Maybe I will have a go at doing some myself, it may not be worth someone like Gav making one since Buck Rogers is hardly a sought after game so he would probably never sell another.
One final question, if I do stencil myself can I get away with leaving the side rails on and just masking them off, while I sand, fill and spray the rest, or am I being a lazy SOB? My understanding was the System 1's had twisted/threaded nails in them which can be a mongrel to get out without damaging the rails.
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Take off the rails if doing full stencil, but not for a touch up.
Twisty nails are easy to remove I find by starting at the back with a broad chisel and lever near the nail till you can get some multi grips/ pliers onto head and simply twist out working your way to the front slowly. Greg from RTBB sells these as you don't want to reuse again.
When refixing make sure it is a nice tight hole or simply put a match stick and pva glue to make existing hole good again.
Give it a go dude, might as well regain the rails too if you rip them off.
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Well I tidied up the bottom panel including replacing all the fuse holders. I also sprayed the transformers black again and also spray painted the metal braces that hold them, they were beyond any hope of tumbling or hand polishing. Only thing left now is to put a new EMI filter on as per Nino's advice.
Before
(http://i58.tinypic.com/10gxwdw.jpg)
After
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ykgxhc.jpg)
I have also made a decision on how to deal with the cabinet. Yes I am going to fix it up but I am not going to use a stencil, instead I am going to use the massive role of frisket that I already had..... Yes a different approach.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/iombfs.jpg)
The one dodgy side of the cabinet is the toughest since I can't fill and sand it too much since I still need to see the image to cut the frisket. And yes doing it this way means cutting each side out from the frisket 3 times (one for each colour), but it's ok I have enrolled the wife in to help so it's not so bad %.% Yes I was slack and didn't take the rails off either. lol
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2ymhxdc.jpg)
Wish me luck as I have NFI how this will turn out. Although my early progress on the front of the cabinet is promising. The black turned out well and I got the speckling replicated nicely too with a toothbrush and comb. Will post pics once the yellow and orange are added.
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Looking nice. ^^^
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You have really gone in "boots and all" !
For touch ups to the cabinet, you can paint the inside of the cabinet easily - black. The metal brackets etc are not factory. I'd be tempted to remove them and repair the cabinet properly while it is disassembled.
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Yeah I removed those metal brackets last weekend, patched them up and sprayed it black. Not perfect but looks better than before IMO. Threw some speckling on the black too.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/1z2dg7b.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/30c2328.jpg)
I used the frisket to spray all the black areas on the cabinet today. Then put down some white speckling over the top. Now just gotta repeat the process again for the yellow then again for the orange. (It's just a reflection in the bottom right of the pic BTW).
(http://i59.tinypic.com/300z60l.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/f1ei5u.jpg)
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Hi Slash
There is some great improvements Im enjoying your post #*# I bet you carnt wait to play it again Howzat
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Looking good so far ^^^ ^^^ what kind of paint are you using with the frisket?
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Great work to this cab..
Are you using stencils ...
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Awesome stuff! What a difference you've made to that cab, you have got to be happy with that, it should really look the goods once you've finished. ^^^ You've made me really want a Buck Rogers now.
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I bet you carnt wait to play it again Howzat
I have never actually played this game, it was not working when I got it so I have no idea what it's like - probably a dog haha. But it's all about the journey, I'm learning heaps and if I screw up it's not exactly an expensive game so no harm really.
Looking good so far ^^^ ^^^ what kind of paint are you using with the frisket?
I'm embarrassed to say a bunnings rattle can for the black, but it's worked ok.Great work to this cab..
Are you using stencils ...
No I just lay out one big piece of frisket onto the cab then use an exacto knife to cut out the areas I want to paint. I will probably wait 1-2 weeks before doing the next colour as I don't want the next lot of frisket lifting any paint off.
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Thanks for the update
As i thought of just masking up my Xenon as overall paint was not that bad
With all the restorations out there i always think i should purchase a full stencil decal
and now that i have seen that can be done i will think twice about paying the big dollars for one.
Great update Slash
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I would say it comes down to how bad your cabinet is as to whether doing it the way I am is an option. If the cabinet is quite bad and really needs to be rubbed back to almost bare to get a reasonable surface, then my way may not be an option since you will lose the image to frisket around. But if it's just say faded or scratched etc in patches and the overall cabinet is reasonable I think you could get a good result with this method.
The very front of one side of my cab was probably the only really bad bit. I'm not entirely happy with the finish on that area since I had to balance between sanding it back to a nice smooth surface and losing the image. The rest to date looks promising. That said you can never seem to get it 100%, the more you look at it the more you think "oh I should do that bit, or sand that again, or patch that bit", you become your own worst critic. I was talking about a couple of bits to my wife and she was asking me why I would even bother as she couldn't see what I as referring to and kept telling me that it looked fine.
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wow the bottom board came up a treat. great to see it coming to life. go sys1
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Been a while since I posted any pics but have been gradually chipping away at stuff when time permits. Just about finished the cabinet (still gotta do the head box) excluding a few minor touchups to the cab.
What took extra long was I did the black area first which in hindsight was stupid. I should have done it last, so I redid that section again after I had done the yellow and red/orange. It was the biggest area and it was best to finish it off last.
The other thing I learnt since I have been using large amounts of frisket was I had to put 2 layers on. When I only had one the paint seemed to react with it and seep through somehow and react with the glue and/or really get the edges to lift. So after trying two layers of frisket it seemed to work.
Overall I am reasonably happy with the results. Not perfect since the method I was using didn't allow for the cabinet to be sanded totally flat since I would completely lose the image I was working off. But in some respects it keeps it a bit more authentic still seeing a bit of woodgrain indentation in the cabinet rather than a dead flat surface. On the side in the pic I messed up and sprayed over 2 orange circles so I scratched them back slightly in the pic so I could see which ones I had to be go back and fix (thought I would mention it in case people see a couple of obvious imperfections you can see one in the top left corner of the third pic).
(http://i58.tinypic.com/107rmup.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/sbrpn7.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/295abt2.jpg)
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Wow! Looking very nice, great work. ^^^
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Great work so far ^^^
I bought a Buck Rogers same year I bought my (current) countdown (1993). Great machine, but my play field was way worse than yours, even my countdown has more wear. I reckon they must have thrashed them in SA, or I'm just a sucker for a poor machine. Sold the Buck Rogers years ago.
I'm keen to see your airbrush work on the playfield, I've got to do the same, but am time poor (3x kids) under 6. So I'm torn between playing and fixing.
Great work with the paint on the cabinet, you are getting me motivated
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I understand the time poor part, that's why this thing is taking for ever.
Have put the playfield touchups on the back burner until I finish the cabinet, but will post pics when I finally get back to it again.
I had some "issues" when I went to fix up a couple of yellow areas on one side of the cabinet last weekend. As a result I will probably have to redo that whole one side again - all the colours arrrrgggghhhh!!!
I will post some pics when I get a chance but it basically showed why I needed to use 2 layers of frisket instead of one. I had done so up until the little touch ups and being lazy bit me badly. Pics will explain.
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Finally started to redo the one side of the cabinet I screwed up when I tried to fix one or two dodgy bits. This was the result from only using one layer of frisket instead of two. For some reason the paint seems to react thru the top surface somehow and this is the result. But when I use two layers of frisket this doesn't happen ?? It's like it reacts with the adhesive in the frisket then when you take it off all these sticky strands come away and screw up the finish around it.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/6tlnoj.jpg)
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Looks like you are painting too heavy mate.. theres a LOT of paint there.
Are you using a brush or spraying. Either way what you need to do is apply the frisket and make one VERY light coat to seal the edges... let this go off and then apply the top coat. Spray enamel is a cow to use as its very thin and easily leeches under your mask. You don't need to build up heavy paint layers.. less is more with this and you barely need enough to just get an even colour.
A nice trick is to use something like a matte white undercoat first to make a very light spray.. this seals the edges of the mask and prevents leeching... you can then go ahead and use the spray enamel. Youll find it easier to cover a misty white colour as opposed to a black or red..... but I cannot emphasise enough that you need to go very lightly!!
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Looks like you are painting too heavy mate.. theres a LOT of paint there.
Are you using a brush or spraying. Either way what you need to do is apply the frisket and make one VERY light coat to seal the edges... let this go off and then apply the top coat. Spray enamel is a cow to use as its very thin and easily leeches under your mask. You don't need to build up heavy paint layers.. less is more with this and you barely need enough to just get an even colour.
A nice trick is to use something like a matte white undercoat first to make a very light spray.. this seals the edges of the mask and prevents leeching... you can then go ahead and use the spray enamel. Youll find it easier to cover a misty white colour as opposed to a black or red..... but I cannot emphasise enough that you need to go very lightly!!
+1
6 light coats are better than 2 heavy coats. There is a temptation to "get the job done", but as Gavin pointed out - go slowly and once you have enough color - STOP.
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Thanks for the advice Gavin and Nino, that might be the problem - going too heavy with the paint.
It's being sprayed on not brushed.
The yellow is the one I seem to have most problems with, mainly Im guessing because I put on a white undercoat first (perhaps not lightly enough) because the colour was getting all screwed up and was too thin when I simply tried spraying it straight on top of the black. As you both say maybe I am ending up with simply too much paint on there, most likely due to a heavy hand and going too fast.
Arrrgggghhh - oh well that was the point of this project. Get a crappy machine so I can learn the hard way by diving in and messing everything up. No real harm done since it's not like I'm destroying something of significant value - except for my pride. lol
Hopefully I will have honed my skills a bit more by the time I'm ready for my next project.
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Learning as you go is half the fun. I admire you for giving it ago though. There is defiantly an art to it and I'm sure I'd bugger it up twice as badly if I were to have a shot. I love the Buck Rogers theme and really like system 1 games so I've really enjoyed your updates on this thread, warts and all. Great stuff. ^^^
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Thanks for the advice Gavin and Nino, that might be the problem - going too heavy with the paint.
It's being sprayed on not brushed.
The yellow is the one I seem to have most problems with, mainly Im guessing because I put on a white undercoat first (perhaps not lightly enough) because the colour was getting all screwed up and was too thin when I simply tried spraying it straight on top of the black. As you both say maybe I am ending up with simply too much paint on there, most likely due to a heavy hand and going too fast.
Arrrgggghhh - oh well that was the point of this project. Get a crappy machine so I can learn the hard way by diving in and messing everything up. No real harm done since it's not like I'm destroying something of significant value - except for my pride. lol
Hopefully I will have honed my skills a bit more by the time I'm ready for my next project.
Yellow tends to be transparent and takes a lot to cover.
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Ok after a bit over 2 years Buck Rogers is finally back together. I just have to plug it all into the new pascal board then attempt to fire it up this afternoon when I have some time and cross my fingers everything works and nothing blows up. lol
Anyhow here are some pics. Overall I am pretty happy given it was my first attempt on so many levels. First time painting a cabinet, first time touching up a playfield (I reckon I ended up painting about 50-60% of it again), first time stripping a playfield, repinning connectors, decaling an apron, rebuilding flippers and bumpers and drop targets, clear coating a playfield, replacing the blue score windows and then clearing/sealing the backglass etc etc etc. I have to say I learnt a lot, even just simple stuff like how something works lol.
As others no doubt find, you look back and think of things you would do differently or little bits here and there you aren't happy with. I see them myself since I did it but others don't unless you point it out, just little things. But nothing too significant. Anyhow here are some pics, when I compare these pics to the pics in the first page of this thread I think overall it's a pretty good improvement. I will probably be back later this arvo with "help requests" when I turn it on and shit doesn't work. *)*
I still need to get a couple of things, like a new coin door lock, some leg protectors. I also am on the lookout for some new Legs for this too when I can find some 27" ones. Then it's time to turn my attention to my Whirlwind project.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2wnz4gx.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/id83ko.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/k03t43.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/vhup8o.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ryog13.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2qwlx6x.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/es11qw.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2w385xv.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/fcvax1.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/4jlzbb.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/8xkad1.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/34s1lsg.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/mi2w6b.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/j8pd9z.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/10oh1dc.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/i21pbo.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/dy1urn.jpg)
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Mighty fine work...looks fantastic.
You've got the resto bug now....it's good fun :D
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Bloody nice effort Slash - I'd be very proud of that - looks great!
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Nice work, well done
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I now what you mean about the small things you would do differently on the next one and the things that you notice but no one else does. You now know every part of this machine inside and out.
Great job!!!!!
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Super effort
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Looks sweet. Nice work.
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Great work, worth every bit of the effort you've put in. @@* @@*
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Very well done slash. Looks amazing and I'll bet it plays really well ?
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Very well done slash. Looks amazing and I'll bet it plays really well ?
Thanks for all the positive comments everyone. I actually haven't had a game yet. I fired it up and nothing blew up or burned so that was a start. Everything lit up too which was a relief.
But it keeps blowing the 25v 5amp slo-blo fuse on the bottom board when it goes thru the startup procedure. I believe that fuse is for the coils?
Could this be the result of a dodgy bridge rectifier? I was testing them as per Clays guide but I don't know if my diode setting on my DMM is in a different scale? It says the value should read between .4 and .6. Well I am getting readings between 400 and 600? Either my DMM has a different scale or they are screwed. I gotta do an order from RTBB so I may buy a couple just in case.
The only other dodgy thing is a couple of the displays have a number missing. On two of them they were there but after messing around they dropped out again. So each display has a number out. Not sure why?
The other annoying thing is molex don't do 21 pin connectors anymore. I stupidly thought I will buy a 22 pin and cut the end off. Well I didn't consider the spaces in them are wrong so I had to cut them out with a Stanley knife, so I'm not sure if that's causing a dodgy connection on A1-J3 and A3-J3 which might be causing some gremlins.