The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => Meets & Gatherings => Topic started by: Caveoftreasures on June 02, 2010, 12:46:13 AM
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This is rough point form breakdown of something i read on another pin site. I am sure everyone will be dis-appointed.
*unfortunate pinball expo 2010 cancelled -postponed due to a lack of funding
*may not have been able to find the right venue
*writer wants next expo to be different to last years auction
* hoping to acquire speakers for next years expo
*promises next years will go ahead
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I know alot of people had mixed feelings about last years expo, some loved it, some didnt, some said it would only be a one hit wonder for a few blokes to auction off some old pins, but i think everyone really wants to see a really well organised expo, with ALL of the Pinball Industry and Pinball Community to be showcased at its best.
Probably better to not have a expo this year and do it properly next year. But in the end, it has died unfortunately.
Was the first one really only a one hit wonder to flog some old pins off ? Time will tell. I hope a Real Expo with all the Pinball Industry attending happens.
Now, it might be time for Melbourne to throw its hat in the ring and get something happening. Mark is probably the only person in Australia who could make something happen. I dont think anyone rerally cares where it is held, or who by, but as long as there is one.
Anyone got any ideas to throw into the hat to get a good expo going. For those who went last year, you guys should have a good idea as to what the next one could be like ?
Anyone else got any ideas ?
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* hoping to acquire speakers for next years expo
I'll send him this one, it's a spare.
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* hoping to acquire speakers for next years expo
I'll send him this one, it's a spare.
you didn't go to work today did you Nick?
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you didn't go to work today did you Nick?
Not sure what you mean - what's "work" ??
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I think it is a mistake to lose the momentum that was gained by not holding one this year.
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shame as always hoped it would become a stand alone expo . at least some members here got to go last year
as for me doing one not at this stage , there was some talk of one in melbourne on aussie arcade a long time ago , i havent heard anymore since then.
if we could ever get a expo like the usa does it would be great for pinball , but these things cost allot of money to have and to arrange. so i undestand why the need for a auction , but best of luck to anyone who trys and has the balls to put everything on the line to do one
good luck
mark
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dont worry mark, we will talk u into it.
just imagine how many machines, both new stern and the usual pinnys u would sell, not to mention the parts.
i reckon u could make a heap of money off the expo, as well as geting all the other professional companys involved. every pinhead in australia and from other countries would have a blast.
the problem at the moment ofcourse, is that Child Amusements and PSP are flat out with not much time available.
We will build a few borg drones to take on some of the expo duties. It will be fine ! ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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dont worry mark, we will talk u into it.
just imagine how many machines, both new stern and the usual pinnys u would sell, not to mention the parts.
i reckon u could make a heap of money off the expo, as well as geting all the other professional companys involved. every pinhead in australia and from other countries would have a blast.
the problem at the moment ofcourse, is that Child Amusements and PSP are flat out with not much time available.
We will build a few borg drones to take on some of the expo duties. It will be fine ! ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
Brett
I would love to hold a expo and I am sure so would Damien
as for Pinball Spare Parts Australia would be involved , child amusements wouldn't as it really has closed down and no longer trades
I just cant see myself or PSPA finding all the time to set it up , I can only image the hours and weeks to do this and the funds to cover it
it was a great risk by the guys last year and I hope they did alright out of it with the auction sales .
I am sure though if others here wanted to do we would gladly help or at least come along , but just a Saturday stall sale cant be a expo or a weekend thing
you would need it set up like the Sydney one or more so like the ones in USA , more people displaying parts and pins , but would everyone turn up.
to be honest most people in this industry hate me ! I guess because I am a prick ! and have lowered the parts prices by 50% plus on lots of items ! check out prices lists from 3 years ago before PSP started and see 11630 coils 35.00 now 9.95 starposts 2.75 now as low as 49 cents , rubbers 3.00 now 75 cents doors 149.00 now 54.95 legs 149.00 now 69.00 the list goes on , now we working on stern , gtb and ramps we ( now with Damien as PSPA) will do the same , so honestly I don't think many would want me there ! but still I would go
and we haven't even started on machines yet
in the end its the customer that decides the price as if they don't buy we don't sell , as we are seeing with some sites now having less stock and looking at closing down .
Kind Regards,
Mark.c.
Pinball Spare Parts Australia Pty Ltd
Factory 6, 176 Canterbury Road, Bayswater North VIC 3153
E: markc@pinballsparepartsaustralia.com
T: 03 9720 6422 M: 0419 384 911 F: 03 9720 7344
W: pinballspareparts.com.au
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Personally I think it is this mentality that will be the undoing of any type of event or expo. People aren't stupid and know when things are nothing but a money grab. Expo should be seen an introduction to pinball for newbies and an opportunity for people already in the hobby to meet and greet like minded folks, retailers and put faces to user names and pick up some great deals. The opportunity for sales and revenue comes afterwards with repeat customers.
If the organiser/s made any money out of the event then that would be a bonus, the main aim should be to cover costs and be thankful for any profit.
What that statement says to me is that if I go I am just going to get ripped off at every opportunity. That's not the message that should be portrayed and even put out there in a public forum of any type. Who's to say that Joe Blow hears about an expo coming up, thinks it would be cool to own his first machine, starts hunting around on the net to find out more and then reads comments like that. As I have already mentioned, costs need to be covered - that goes without saying, but think long term.....another person in the hobby is going to generate more income in the long run that ripping someone off so they get out of the hobby as soon as they got into it. It's not always about making as much money as you can, every time.
......just imagine how many machines, both new stern and the usual pinnys u would sell, not to mention the parts.
i reckon u could make a heap of money off the expo, as well as geting all the other professional companys involved. every pinhead in australia and from other countries would have a blast.......
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An event like this is always going to be "a bunch of blokes in a backyard shed" unless someone takes it seriously. A proper event planner needs to be employed and steps need to be taken to advertise the event to the widest possible audience and with the most advance notice possible. Most events like this are advertised as much as a year in advance.
Sure there are costs involved such as venue hire, advertising etc etc but some or most of these can be recovered through drink/food sales - a modest door charge that could (for one example) be refunded upon the purchase of any item from an exhibitor with the exhibitor undertaking to cover the door charge upon purchase.
If a person (or group of people) are only running it to 'make money' it is doomed to failure right from the start as most can spot a money grab a mile away.
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you would hope that going towards the costs you would be able to cover 50% with a door fee and have stalls and even drinks ( no grog) and even say a pinball comp these could help cover fees
even t shirts and so on , again like the ones in USA , be nice to get as many pinball stalls as you can and even if you have to seperate them all at each end , and have pins in the middle for people to play
these could be for a auction or retailers to show off , I am sure you could get pins from everywhere and sayd a small charge for pin put on show , to help cover costs
Kind Regards,
Mark.c.
Pinball Spare Parts Australia Pty Ltd
Factory 6, 176 Canterbury Road, Bayswater North VIC 3153
E: markc@pinballsparepartsaustralia.com
T: 03 9720 6422 M: 0419 384 911 F: 03 9720 7344
W: pinballspareparts.com.au
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An event like this is always going to be "a bunch of blokes in a backyard shed" unless someone takes it seriously. A proper event planner needs to be employed and steps need to be taken to advertise the event to the widest possible audience and with the most advance notice possible. Most events like this are advertised as much as a year in advance.
Sure there are costs involved such as venue hire, advertising etc etc but some or most of these can be recovered through drink/food sales - a modest door charge that could (for one example) be refunded upon the purchase of any item from an exhibitor with the exhibitor undertaking to cover the door charge upon purchase.
If a person (or group of people) are only running it to 'make money' it is doomed to failure right from the start as most can spot a money grab a mile away.
said about the same thing re food and so sales
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Hello Guys,
I would love a expo, and being involve with NAMOA ( national amusement machines assoc aust) they are a national industry body and struggle to get a event off the ground.
They did a melb one last year and most interstate operators didnt show.
AMD didnt even bring a new pinball to the show.
When LAI did expos our budget was huge and we never made a profit, but all the suppliers sent product to be dispalyed.
we really only have stern now days, and im sure they wont pay for it.. they currently dont go to the expo in chicago. All sterns for the comps are paid for in advance.
PSPA would be happy to be involved, but knowing the bitchyness of the pinball industry, if we went others wouldnt.
I personally have tried to offer all forums our discount on new sterns and was told flatly that those forums did not want their members to buy them.
we are here for pinball..
damien
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Like most things organising an expo, conference, meeting etc etc. Take's time, motivation, but most of all money...
Money is tight and the potential list of sponsors in Australia for this type of gathering is minimal. It's a great idea but hard to get momentum and even harder to maintain this momentum.....
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I spose what I was trying to say, which has been echoed in the other posts above is that you can't expect to make big bucks, if any, out of an expo alone. It is really a bit of a show and shine and an attempt to get everyone together in the same spot and a chance to get newbies involved as well.
It is a shame there is way too much politics in this industry but I can't see that changing anytime soon.
In lieu of expo, I'd love to see a pinball market get up and running somewhere, no glitz and glamour just a community hall that could be anywhere or travel around, sort of like the computer fairs, and have a place to either display your stuff, offer it for sale, run a tournament or do whatever you would like to do with it.
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Has anyone ever been to a professional Boating Show.??
Has anyone ever been to a professional Motor Car Show.??
Has anyone been to a professional Caravan and camping show. ??
Let me say this from the start, and if u dont agree,in all respect, YOU MIGHT BE KIDDING YOURSELF !
These shows are held for one reason, to showcase and sell product.That means that dirty word MONEY $$$.
let me say it again, TO SHOWCASE AND SELL PRODUCT.$$$$$$$$$$ Jet ski companies - every one of them attends. Every boat manufacturer attends. Every Motor manufacturer attends. Same with all the Car companies and every support product company there is, and then look at the Caravan and Camping Shows, every brand name you could imagine.
They dont attend with an attitude of gee, i hope people like our stuff, they attend with the attitude of
" I HOPE THEY BUY OUR STUFF AND REFER US TO EVERY FAMILY N FRIEND THEY HAVE".
Professional Expos are not charitys, they are money making events for business people. Do these companies hope you buy on the day, YES, that is the aim. Do they care if you buy next week, or next month, or next year, they want EXPOSURE. As long as u buy sooner or later.That is the sole aim.
These Expos are not a meeting place for people who go fishing to meet up n swap stories, forums are for that. These Expos are to showcase, sell n offer NEW or existing product.
In utmost respect, anyone who thinks holding a PINBALL EXPO is about meets n greets, and warm n fuzzy feelings, its not. That comes naturally as we drool over all the new STERNS or over the ramps we see on someone's stand, or that Fully refurbred Twilight Zone that Bumper Action Or PSP has sitting there gleaming with a price sticker attached.Thats what a professional Expo is about.
What about a Expo where a pinball machine was offered with finance that you could afford. Gee, u went there for a look, and ended up spending say 8 grand. Thats what Expo's are about. Surprises, Specials, New products you havent seen before. Do u walk out spending that bit extra on the Mastercard or your cash savings, than what you thought you would before you walked in, hell yes. aND THATS SOMETIMES THE FUN, AND THE AIM FOR SMART eXPO OPERATORS/STALL HOLDERS.
Will we all meet up n say hello, ofcourse. Will some of us spend money, HELL YES. Will some just attend n say hello, YES.
Look at every USA version of the Expo. Its about Sales n meeting great contacts, both being within the Industry or potential Customers.
Does anyone hold a auction of second hand stuff at a professional Boat show, or car show, or Camping Caravan Show. NO NO NO.
I mention this for future expos, not a review of last years format. They did the best they could do.
ALSO, who cares what one seller thinks of the other, do u think YAMAHA employees care what Suzuki people think of them.
Do u think HOLDEN cares what FORD THINKS OF THEM ? NO NO.NO
If I had a business that was totally PINBALL, I would put on a expo that would make alot of money, and alot of people happy.
BUT I run a Security Business. Do i go to SECURITY EXPO'S, yes, do i make shitloads of money there, you bet. Do I care about the opposition, No, couldnt care less.
For the time being, PINBALL EXPO in Australia seems dead n buried for the next year or 3 or 4, until the big boys of the Industry decide to join forces and professionally offer their products.
p.s- A large boat manufacturer on the Gold Coast, was almost in recievership, owing 6 million, it attended a BOATING EXPO on the Gold Coast, only this last few weeks. It got orders for 250 Million Dollars, deposits of 40 million, and their future is now sound. Now, why did the people who bought the boats at the Expo, buy them over that weekend, instead of last week, or last month, My answer IS -
GO TO A PROFESSIONAL EXPO AND ASK THE PEOPLE SHOWING THEIR PRODUCTS JUST HOW IMPORTANT THAT 2 OR 4 DAY EXPO EVENT IS TO THEIR BOTTOM LINE EACH YEAR !.. SAY "ARE YOU COMING TO THE EXPO NEXT YEAR?
IT DONESNT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO WORK OUT THE ANSWER.
Also, Mark, dont worry about the 1 percent who may not like u, there is still 99percent of us who enjoy doing business with you. A Pinball Expo in Australia could be such a great money spinner. Even the opposition in the pinball industry loves money. And we all get to attend, spend n have fun. Now, I will just stay positive to/for the future. Never say Never. ^^^ Long Live Pinball.
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Cavey I agree with you 100 thousand percent in your reply.
Thats 100 THOUSAND percent ^^^
I too am involved in a business that utilises Expo style events as ONE way of marketing and promoting our gear, company and people , and God forbid sell product - and it works.
I knew the late great Andrew Short VERY well , he used to dedicate a staff member , year round to be part of the Sydney Boating Expo and as it drew closer he had a stack of staff invested in the Expo - why - because he took MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE sales orders at the Expo, and he saw the exposure the Expo gave him, his business and his products to NEW CUSTOMERS and his existing customer base.
He was no fool and he made a shitload of money and his business is still one of the biggest boating companies in Sydney even after his death ( RIP Shorty )
MAYBE it wouldnt be AS succesful in our tight-knit hobby - I dont know - but we wont even try it !!!
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I imagine that at the moment we are really talking about the economics of running an event for a much smaller industry. The marine industry in Australia is worth about $7 billion annually, the pinball industry I have no idea, but I am guessing $100 million??? So there is an issue of affordability - the larger the industry the more easily they can afford a great expo.
Most industry expos are run by professional exhibition organisers who do it for a living and I presume they make decent money out of it as they usually charge both the exhibitors and the exhibition-goers. I have seen certain exhibitions cease over time due to eventual lack of interest from the industry.
As to last expo - there were a number of exhibitors although the size of the venue did not allow too many. I think it wouldn't have been too difficult to get them back as they seemed to do all right out of it.
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yeh, well said AJ.
Give me say a total of fifty new STERN pinballs, 4 or 5 of each of the available makes n models, give me a Certigy or GE Credit style finance deal, and i will flog them all at a Expo. Then we move onto Twilights, Indys, Addams etc etc etc.
There is plenty of money out there, lots of mums n dads who can afford a fifty buck a week payment. Lots of newbies who would (with our help) turn into collectors/addicts etc .lol
If I lived in Melbourne, give me a few weeks to find a venue, that some broke landlord would like to rent out for a few weeks, every pinhead on AA and AP to spread the word, a few radio stations throwing in a few ads, a few community newspapers, plus the usual avenues of the cheaper advertising, and i reckon, even I , could talk WG, Mark, Bumper and others into a great show.
If the desire is there, NOTHING is impossible. Nothing.
But, I am just a mere mortal.lol @.@ %.% %.%
Lets wait 3 or 6 months and see what the melbourne lads reckon. !@# ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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I have been involved as an organiser for many airshows.
They do NOT make money AT ALL - EVER.
They do however, raise public awareness of aviation.
It is NOT always about the money...............
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It is all achievable if the desire is there, but someone would need to take 3 or 4 months out of their life to get it done!
Wanted: one organiser willing to put together a pinball expo for no money, just the satisfaction of putting something in place. Healthy bank balance to provide deposits for venue, insurance and advertising would be highly regarded.
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I often do work for a company that relied on setting up stands as major income at several shows here in Brisbane including the motor show. 2 years back the work dropped off dramatically due to the high costs of having a stall at these venues. People just werent prepared to pay the $$$'s
I too have had a stall at a sign show.. the costs involved were huge and no we did not beak even.. we lost money. Did we create awareness?? Well yes of course. Did we do it again? No.
Pinball Expo is ( was) a very different affair. My stall last year was cheap, but add flights and hotels and it cost me over $2000 to present myself. No i did not make money there or in the year following.
Major criticism of last years expo was the auction. Michael tried to NOT have this.. it was obviously a major sticking point. Did last year break even? ..NO. Both Michael and Ryan LOST money.
So the community cries no auction. Michael listens and tries to set this years up without it. Problem is that the upfront costs are huge.. over $10000 was spent last year on radio advertising alone.
It cant work both ways... pin prices are down... selling pins to cover costs is subject to huge criticism.. and yet these guys are expected to front costs to keep US happy... well it didnt work and so Expo is off for this year.
A few commercial dealers wanted to sell pins last year... did they want to contribute to costs.. NO. They wanted a free platform to sell their wares.
Couple that with the bitching that goes on... dealers hating each other.. forums against each other... a group of people conspiring to ruin last year ( yes it happened) by threatening to auction off pins outside the venue... these people didnt want it to work, but it did.. at a loss.
Mark C is right.. if he attends then others wont... if WG attends then NO ONE else will. And so on and so on
The pinball community is NOT united in its hobby.. its divided many times.
Expo 2010 is off.. i think this is very sad. I wasnt even sure i could attend and hated the thought of missing it.
basic fact is that Michael and Ryan do not have the $$'s to put upfront.. no one else has stepped up to fund it. Auction to pay for it is a big NO NO ( apparently).. so where do the funds come from?
Not from my stall... had i paid standard price for an Expo stall, there is no way i would present myself.
I got asked time and time again last year.. do i have permission to do this.. do that etc etc etc... you cant do this.. you dont have licence. Blah Blah bloody blah
Well i could do this and that cos i wasnt selling the BG i had on the stall.. was for my own machine... in fact all i had for sale were 2 neon signs.
Well yes, now i have licence and could sell stencils etc... but i try to keep these priced low.. prices include a royalty fee that i pay. How many stencils would i have to sell at Expo just to cover the costs if it were run as a large show type affair... aint hard to work out... its not possible.
Expo was run last year as a hobbyist type affair.. low price on a stall.... low price to enter.. create awareness etc etc etc.. but fund it with an auction.
YOU.. the community did not like this funding style.. but without someone coming along with VERY deep pockets along with a much higher entry fee and stall fee i cant see how Expo can function.
Expo 2009 happened... it got slammed before and after the affair.. criticism from so many who wanted it run how THEY would like it run but are not willing to put time, energy and most importantly $$$'s where its needed.
The general community killed Expo this year.. no one else... but hey! Thats bloody pinball for you!
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Mike (Homepin), my father is a pilot so I know where u r coming from.
But, I will say, that most regional airshows are organised, from my past experience, for rich people to show off their private planes, so making money, is not the aim of the game. Larger Airshows, do and can incorporate Aeroplane sales etc, so making money in those environments can be a larger aim. But not so much in Australia.
Sales are more important in USA and Europe. Insurance has killed off alot of Air-Shows in Australia unfortunately.
Retropin (Gav) has made some excellent points. I agree with 100 percent of what u have said.
It makes us look at ourselves with the view that we cant have our cake n eat it too.
As a hobbyist, I want the Expo run a certain way. As a businessman, I want to run it a different way. But, I will always side with the business version, cause thats what i do for a living. Run a business.
The costs for one company, make it impossible. The costs shared accross several businesses make it possible.
AJ said it well above, 1 person with deep pockets who has the time, or someone who can make the time, (or you would have to have 5 cool heads from the industry all working together).I wish i had a magic wand. I guess we all wish we had a magic wand for this expo problem.
I take my hat off to Last years Expo Managers for all the crap they went thru after reading what Gav (Retropin) has mentioned. ^^^
I guess there are some problems you just cant fix for other people, no matter how bad u want it..
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To me the only problem with the auction last year was that the Expo was advertised as continuing past it when in reality it was all over once the auction ended (apart form helping people take pins away).
It was understandable that the Expo had to be funded somehow, so an auction seemed a reasonable way to do it. However, the auction did not attract enough buyers willing to fight over machines and only a handful of machines went for top dollar, so I get why they lost money.
The bottom line is someone or some group of people have to put their dollars on the line to get an Expo happening.
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I thought the intial point of this debate was Expo has been delayed for the simple fact that it was too expensive to get up and running. Of course retailers are going to make money, my point is that the organisers probably won't. One location wanted $30k up front to stage Expo. You can't tell me that an ORGANISER is going to outlay that amount of money before a ticket is sold for a pinball expo. Is the organiser going to get all the retailers there when he has to ask big bucks for a stall? I doubt it. Perhaps ask Mark what it would cost to man a stall at Expo for four days - hire a truck, load it up full of machines and parts, get it to Sydney, set up the stall....there's at least two days, four days at Expo for which you would need several staff, travel allowance i.e. food, drink, accomodation and another day or two back, then factor in time lost whilst the staff are at expo and not repairing or preparing machines. For Mark it might work out, for a small operator the likes of Greg it wouldn't be worth it. So in the end, you don't get all of the industry there.
To compare the BIA Boat Show to a pinball expo is nonsense. As has been mentioned we are talking about two totally different industries. Would a pinball expo attract 100's of thousands of visitors - not a chance. To secure space at a boat show costs $100's of thousands of dollars, especially for the size of a stand Shorty (RIP) puts together. Most retailers do well out of it with orders but that isn't the argument.
For those of us that did go to last years expo, did you go to look at new machines or did you for the social side of things and meet blokes you had chatted to on the forum/s - for me it was both. $5 to get in the door, chat all day and night with a good bunch of blokes and it was a great weekend that only cost several hundred bucks with airfares and accomodation.
We can't lose sight of the fact we are a small group of enthusiasts and any astute business man would be able to see that as an ORGANISER, at this point in time, the figures simply don't stack up to stage a top end, glitz and glamour pinball expo, which is what the guys were trying to achieve this time around. Personally I'd be stoked with another event like last year's one and if it is the difference between the event happening and not happening, then let's have an auction, open it up to everyone to put up machines for auction (I think that is where it fell down last year), at the end of the day, I don't have to bid on anything if I don't want to, I don't even have to be there for it.
BTW, gotta applaud Retropin for telling it how it is....good post mate. Guys like Michael & Ryan are still getting shit canned but still no-one has stepped up to the plate to help as you said.
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You make some great points. Re the boat show part, I was comparing how it was run, not how many attend.
The problem to start with, is $5 entry fee is crazy. How about $25 entry fee. Isnt that areasonable gate price for a professional expo, say with ALL Industry people attending for argument sake. Cheap to have a great time all day and into the night for a lousy $25.
1000 visitors at $25 and u r starting to cover costs etc. 25 grand raised off the gate. An expo will never ever happen again at $5 gate entry. The organisers losing money last year proves that point. The gate price must be raised. If anyone says $25 is too expensive, well, they obviously arent serious about holding/attending a Expo.
Whats the price to go to the movies. $25 gets ya a ticket n popcorn, maybe a icecream. Thats a bit of fun for 2 hours tops. Therefore, a big day out at a Pinball Expo for example has to be worth $25 gate entry for a show/hobby/interest you love.Its only once a year. $25 is very reasonable for a whole day or two.
Anyway, we would all like to see something happen. And its good we are all passionate about debating the topic.
Its that passion which will end up having/getting another Expo over the line and happen one day. ^^^
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My point is that an Expo could still happen, even if it was just on a similar scale to last year, if a highly motivated and cashed-up organiser did step forward.
I don't see it happening from a dealer at this point in the year due to the investment in effort and time that would be required.
Now, the computer swap meet model works well in Melbourne where you get lots of people in cheaply in order to sell them stuff - and the stall-holders no doubt foot a large portion of the bill. For a Pinball Expo you would have less floor space for stalls so you would need to up the entrance fee to something reasonable (eg $20 individual, $30 family ticket), but my guess is it would still be workable. If you combined that with a minimal commission from stuff sold off the floor, then you could break even. You may not be able to afford to advertise so you would need to work hard to get free publicity. I think you would have to see machines on the floor for immediate sale with replacement machines waiting in the wings for it to work, though.
Looks like Cavey beat me to some of my points!
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I often do work for a company that relied on setting up stands as major income at several shows here in Brisbane including the motor show. 2 years back the work dropped off dramatically due to the high costs of having a stall at these venues. People just werent prepared to pay the $$$'s
I too have had a stall at a sign show.. the costs involved were huge and no we did not beak even.. we lost money. Did we create awareness?? Well yes of course. Did we do it again? No.
Pinball Expo is ( was) a very different affair. My stall last year was cheap, but add flights and hotels and it cost me over $2000 to present myself. No i did not make money there or in the year following.
Major criticism of last years expo was the auction. Michael tried to NOT have this.. it was obviously a major sticking point. Did last year break even? ..NO. Both Michael and Ryan LOST money.
So the community cries no auction. Michael listens and tries to set this years up without it. Problem is that the upfront costs are huge.. over $10000 was spent last year on radio advertising alone.
It cant work both ways... pin prices are down... selling pins to cover costs is subject to huge criticism.. and yet these guys are expected to front costs to keep US happy... well it didnt work and so Expo is off for this year.
A few commercial dealers wanted to sell pins last year... did they want to contribute to costs.. NO. They wanted a free platform to sell their wares.
Couple that with the bitching that goes on... dealers hating each other.. forums against each other... a group of people conspiring to ruin last year ( yes it happened) by threatening to auction off pins outside the venue... these people didnt want it to work, but it did.. at a loss.
Mark C is right.. if he attends then others wont... if WG attends then NO ONE else will. And so on and so on
The pinball community is NOT united in its hobby.. its divided many times.
Expo 2010 is off.. i think this is very sad. I wasnt even sure i could attend and hated the thought of missing it.
basic fact is that Michael and Ryan do not have the $$'s to put upfront.. no one else has stepped up to fund it. Auction to pay for it is a big NO NO ( apparently).. so where do the funds come from?
Not from my stall... had i paid standard price for an Expo stall, there is no way i would present myself.
I got asked time and time again last year.. do i have permission to do this.. do that etc etc etc... you cant do this.. you dont have licence. Blah Blah bloody blah
Well i could do this and that cos i wasnt selling the BG i had on the stall.. was for my own machine... in fact all i had for sale were 2 neon signs.
Well yes, now i have licence and could sell stencils etc... but i try to keep these priced low.. prices include a royalty fee that i pay. How many stencils would i have to sell at Expo just to cover the costs if it were run as a large show type affair... aint hard to work out... its not possible.
Expo was run last year as a hobbyist type affair.. low price on a stall.... low price to enter.. create awareness etc etc etc.. but fund it with an auction.
YOU.. the community did not like this funding style.. but without someone coming along with VERY deep pockets along with a much higher entry fee and stall fee i cant see how Expo can function.
Expo 2009 happened... it got slammed before and after the affair.. criticism from so many who wanted it run how THEY would like it run but are not willing to put time, energy and most importantly $$$'s where its needed.
The general community killed Expo this year.. no one else... but hey! Thats bloody pinball for you!
Terrific post Gav.
Nug and I were part of 2009 with Coconut Island, and in fact kinda grateful as it forced our hand to finish the last bits on the game to make the event. AP was the central focus for forum promotion, and outside AP was criticism and immaturity.
I agree with Caveman's point about the entry fee - Bumper has done fine with a $20.00 fee for their Faith nights for years, and I would have thought $20.00 to play all the pinball you want for a day isn't too much (as long as a "family" ticket is available). But as an Expo might be wanting to attract non-hardcore pinheads, there might need to be a balance to make the entry fee attractive, hard to be sure.
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Totally agree with the cover charge to get in but that price must reflect - 'pay for what you get'. As mentioned, for just myself I wouldn't worry about $20 or $25 to get in but for my wife and I and three kids........there would need to be a pretty good family ticket. On the other side of the coin, I reckon more people probably walked through the door because of the low cover charge.
Yeah, it would be good value compared to going to the movies, we recently took the kids to the movies and frankly we won't be going back - $70 to watch a kids movie and one of the kids got in free, I'll wait for anything else to come out on DVD next time.
Boat, car, camping and caravan shows - been to them all and they would be a great thing to aspire to but they are on a massively different level to what two guys were trying to get off the ground. The organisers of these shows are able to charge what they like for stalls or floor space and know they will fill every spot available and they know stacks of people are going to walk through the door. A Pinball Expo - no guarantees retailers will attend and very little idea as to how many people are going to walk through the door because it is all new. Whoever has a crack at running one will be taking a gamble until the Expo is cemented as part of peoples calendar for the year.
Agree healthy civil debate is good - there are bound to be some good ideas come out of it. The pinball industry isn't a new one but it is relatively small here in Australia and I think that it still needs to grow. This was the aim of last years Expo, trying to re-introduce pinball to the general public and a new generation of pinheads. Lets face it, how many of us have kids that we can honestly say will love and maintain the machines like we do once we are gone. If I'm lucky, one out of three of my kids might.
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I was actually thinking today, that a Pinball Expo piggy backed onto/with one of those "Big Boys Toys" Expo's you see every now n again might work.
That way, you could have Pinball with Cars n Jet Ski stuff, the Electronics Home Theatre big ass TV people, and maybe the motor bike Harley davidson/Jap bike section. The typical luxury "Ohhh Yehhhh I want that Show".
If ya cant beat em , join em might be an answer. !@#
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See told ya some good ideas would come out of this 'discussion'. Not really an expo but not a bad way of generating some interest.
I was actually thinking today, that a Pinball Expo piggy backed onto/with one of those "Big Boys Toys" Expo's you see every now n again might work.
That way, you could have Pinball with Cars n Jet Ski stuff, the Electronics Home Theatre big ass TV people, and maybe the motor bike Harley davidson/Jap bike section. The typical luxury "Ohhh Yehhhh I want that Show".
If ya cant beat em , join em might be an answer. !@#
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Yep - a very decent idea.
Cavey - U R on fire mate %.%
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It would take a very brave and cashed up individual(s) to finance "up front" the type of Expo we "expect". Due to the nature of the industry, it would be very difficult to have all vendors in one room and all singing to the same tune. I think there are two distinct types of "Expo"s.
An Industry Driver Expo - Involving all vendors, dealers and business' that are actively in the industry and that like any industry - are profit driven. Like any activity - the Expo needs to generate money for the business. Look at the way the USA guys run Expos - They involve as many Industry people as possible. The generate the interest to generate their income. It is like bringing their showrooms into one big hall.
A Hobbyist's Expo - Involving Hobbyists - collectors bring their own games, mods, books, flyers etc etc. In Australia - we are just too small - but we don't need to go "big". Whoever wants to be there from the industry - well that's a bonus.
A bit of both, in a small scale at low costs would be the way to go.
I REALLY like the idea of hanging a mini Expo - with stalls etc at another "Big Boys Toys" show - Cars / motorbikes / Pinball !
The POSITIVE discussion within this thread really does demonstrate the passion and the possibilities. A lot better that the speculation and rumours that ran rampant leading up to the Expo.
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Really well said Mr Strangeways.
As Mark C always says, pinball is meant to be fun.
At the end of the day, everyone on Aussie Pinball and Aussie Arcade, all have one huge thing in common, WE ALL LOVE PINBALL.
I think the EXPO topic creates so much, so many different versions/opinions, cause we all want to "showcase or show off" this dam great hobby we love so much to as many new faces as possible. And sometimes, its like we are all fighting to present our hobby the very best way we all can.
Yes, alot of us are perfectionists or nit picky cause we all care heaps, and thats a good thing.
We all have to remember, Pinball comes first with the fun factor. All the politics and rivalry between businesses or forums always comes last and is really insignificant compared to the fun and joy of this dam great hobby. I have met more great people in the last 2 years with Pinball, than i have in 20 years without it. !
It will only be a matter of time before a few blokes from all parts of this industry/hobby get together again and put together something fun and great that we all will be proud of.
There too many great people in this thing called Pinball to stop the natural evoloution. One of the most important parts to keeping this Industry alive is the success of STERN. Any opportunity to promote them, anywhere, to the mass public in anyway, can only be great for pinball and new buyers/hobbyists. New blood, of all ages. Like a recruitment drive. lol ^^^
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Yes i do say PINBALL IS MEANT TO BE FUN and to most CYA AGAIN SOON as so many come back for a 2nd or a third or more
going in with big boys toys expo nows thats an idea I like ...
when is the next one in melb maybe a few of the melb guys could go and try it out ?
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The big boys toys expo was held just last weekend here in Brisbane. I've always said that pinball machines go well with us petrol heads, most old school hot rodders remember playing pinballs, these hobbies blend well together. When we run a show us ya ride thread on AP heaps of members here had classic cars/bikes and rods.
Just floating an idea to run a pinball expo with a major state hot rod show, never seems to be much trouble getting hot rod/motor industry trade sponsors to cover venue costs, and classic car shows allways pull the crowds?? A separate hall with the pins, then the balance of venue populated with cool cars. Would this work?? hell YES!! or is this just a crazy idea?
just my thoughts
Cheers
V8racefan
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2011 Street Rod Nationals will be in Victoria Easter 2011 (Geelong host city), this will be a huge event.
also
2011 National Corvette Convention will be at Docklands next Easter.
Both these events will be held during Easter 2011.
Both huge events that go for 3-4 days each, would be a good to showcase some pins at either or both events.
The National Corvette convention will probably have live TV news crosses as part of the 2011 Royal Childrens Hospital Good Friday Appeal, could set up a tent with pins on free play with gold coin donation to the appeal if anyone interested contact me.
Denis.
The big boys toys expo was held just last weekend here in Brisbane. I've always said that pinball machines go well with us petrol heads, most old school hot rodders remember playing pinballs, these hobbies blend well together. When we run a show us ya ride thread on AP heaps of members here had classic cars/bikes and rods.
Just floating an idea to run a pinball expo with a major state hot rod show, never seems to be much trouble getting hot rod/motor industry trade sponsors to cover venue costs, and classic car shows allways pull the crowds?? A separate hall with the pins, then the balance of venue populated with cool cars. Would this work?? hell YES!! or is this just a crazy idea?
just my thoughts
Cheers
V8racefan
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Piggy backed with "big boys toys" is an awesome idea I think-two of my favorite toys fast cars and great pinball $#$
Just need to make sure the machines are show cased in there best condition as in fully working and in new or mint condition or a before and after resto, not machines that are in crap condtion.
Peter
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queensland amusemnt expo in september..
who is going to make it a pinball one too?
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were due for another expo in sydney boys .
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I remember when this complete NOB from another forum emailed me abusive messages because I did this post about the 2010 expo being dead etc. He went to great pains to detail how it was going to go ahead, he was the main organiser on the committee, and he sent me email after email telling me how he was 1 million percent going to make this happen. What a NOB. He said I was banned from AA because I had incorrectly stated the 2010 expo wasnt going ahead, when he could prove it 1 million percent was going ahead.. !!@
Well, i was right for a change. It didnt get off the ground. I found it extra funny that it was only 2 weeks from the opening date of the supposed expo, and no venue had been announced, no dates etc, but I got abused for saying it was going to be dead. That NOB owes me an apology. Committe member or not, he made an absolute goose of himself telling the world he was the committe president and it was his job to announce to the world etc that the 2010 expo was 1 million percent happening, and all the sponsors were lined up, the venue had been chosen, and all the other forums were going etc etc..
Congratulations Mr Committe President ! that was a mighty fine 2010 expo u put on. It was so great, everyone is speechless about all the great things which happened. %.%
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I remember when this complete NOB from another forum emailed me abusive messages because I did this post about the 2010 expo being dead etc. He went to great pains to detail how it was going to go ahead, he was the main organiser on the committee, he was also an AP member, who doesnt post anymore etc, and he sent me email after email telling me how he was 1 million percent going to make this happen. What a NOB. He said I was banned from AA because I had incorrectly stated the 2010 expo wasnt going ahead, when he could prove it 1 million percent was going ahead.. !!@
Well, i was right for a change. It didnt get off the ground. I found it extra funny that it was only 2 weeks from the opening date of the supposed expo, and no venue had been announced, no dates etc, but I got abused for saying it was going to be dead. That NOB owes me an apology. Committe member or not, he made an absolute goose of himself telling the world he was the committe president and it was his job to announce to the world etc that the 2010 expo was 1 million percent happening, and all the sponsors were lined up, the venue had been chosen, and all the other forums were going etc etc..
Congratulations Mr Committe President ! that was a mighty fine 2010 expo u put on. It was so great, everyone is speechless about all the great things which happened. %.%
I know what you mean, Brett. There are some seriously deluded individuals that believe that the hobby runs around their agenda.
Would be fantastic to see a "real" Expo sometime in the future.
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You mean the commitee president that only gave details and participation invites to people he wanted to and excluded those he no longer liked for one reason or another?
Any expo is doomed when personal agenda overrides the task at hand.
cavey... youll never get an apology %.% and it was sad in the end to see it all fall apart due to such fragile personalities
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It did go ahead cavey.
They even raffled 3 NIB second edition WMS Medieval Madness Pins.
They also had a fully working time machine there but some one used it to go back in time and destroy all the invitations thus the space time continuum was changed so no one RSVP by the due date and the event was cancelled due to a lack of interest. &&
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..... What a NOB. He said I was banned from AA because I had incorrectly stated the 2010 expo wasnt going ahead, when he could prove it 1 million percent was going ahead.. !!@
I always thought you were a trouble maker *)* *)* !*!
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..... What a NOB. He said I was banned from AA because I had incorrectly stated the 2010 expo wasnt going ahead, when he could prove it 1 million percent was going ahead.. !!@
I always thought you were a trouble maker *)* *)* !*!
I think u might be onto something there Pete.lol I would prefer "thought provoker". #@#
At the time i was told it was going to be something for one forum to attend and not the other. So if that was the real case, by me stating that the 2010 expo was dead, if it wasnt, then a venue and time etc would have been provided up to prove me wrong. Unfortunately, for all pinheads it wasnt a goer. But I think the Stern dealers will oneday do something in Sydney anyway. The pinball industry can still piggy back onto other expos. Thats what i would do. and i reckon if I was a passionate salesperson at the pinball site, i would get heaps of deposits from new pinny buyers.
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Bumper Action does have a stall at the Melbourne home show
It is small,but filled with the stuff they offer
When i saw them there they were doing their best promoting
But i have no idea how many people then take a look at there showroom