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Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: turbo27 on May 07, 2014, 10:03:15 AM
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I'm working on my IJ restore. Cabinet is repaired and sanded.
Which brand of automotive paint do people prefer to use, and where to buy?
Will a prime and filler, then acrylic top coat. Does anyone use a clear coat as well before decals? Or just stick with the clear coat on bolt heads and gun etc.
Thanks heaps ^^^
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I use a local automotive paint supplier that is located in Melbourne. I use automotive acrylics. Prime and filler and then base coat. No clear.
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I'm working on my IJ restore. Cabinet is repaired and sanded.
Which brand of automotive paint do people prefer to use, and where to buy?
Will a prime and filler, then acrylic top coat. Does anyone use a clear coat as well before decals? Or just stick with the clear coat on bolt heads and gun etc.
Thanks heaps ^^^
I use a high fill primer then base coat (black). I generally then clear it, just to get that perfect glass like flat surface. As the decals are well, pretty much stickers, the slightest imperfection can be seen.
If you're using an acrylic prime with a compatible acrylic top coat, there is no need for a clear unless its a high wear area thats not covered (ie stencils). But in the home environment you should be fine without it.
As far as brands go, I would go to a proper automotive paint supplier (for acrylic).
Just make sure to have the correct safety equipment (masks) etc.
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Ok, went to a local Automotive paint supplier, very helpful. They mixed primer/filler and low gloss black into 1 litre cans. That was Thursday.
As I went to open the primer filler, the top of the can seemed a little raised, ie pressure inside.
This is what I found..... now I'm no expert, but even after 1:1 mix of thinners, and 15 mins of stirring, no way am I going to apply this.
It's like a thick curdled custard with bits in it.
And of course Saturday arvo and no one to ring....if I had a cat I would kick it ^&(
Surely this is not right!!!!
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I take it you just bought acrylic ?
You've made the right call to hold off there. I've seen that once with 2k product that was well past its shelf life.
I take it the high fill primer was not mixed, this was just a can off the shelf? If so, I'd say yep its been opened and not sealed correctly and well past its date.
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The black acrylic was mixed, as it was done in front of me, but the primer/filler, I only saw the label being attached.
So....... maybe I'll just keep on sanding in the mean time!!!!
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I take it you just bought acrylic ?
You've made the right call to hold off there. I've seen that once with 2k product that was well past its shelf life.
I take it the high fill primer was not mixed, this was just a can off the shelf? If so, I'd say yep its been opened and not sealed correctly and well past its date.
+1
That looks like dog poo to me.
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Paint returned, and replaced, including covering the wasted thinners.....give it to them for that.
But, even this mix still had lumps in it. It was decanted from a 4lt can into my 1lt can. It's not off the shelf pre-mixed stuff.
Thinned equal parts to thinners, but for the life of me could not get the lumps out.
It sprayed on OK-ish, but left the surface like a teenagers pimpled face. AT least me sands back ok.
Gun only blocked up once! Not sure if the pics show it that clearly.
Is this normal, or have I just got another can of 'poo'
Cheers
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It can be sanded smooth but in future when pouring into your spray gun can, pour through some muslin or an old pair of ladies tights. Youll find all automotive sprayers do this to ensure no lumps are present
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Nice tip, thanks ^^^
Should I do this with my gloss black as well?
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Nice tip, thanks ^^^
Should I do this with my gloss black as well?
I buy the paper filters from my supplier. Very very cheap.
Is it definitely1:1 mix. Some primers are different...
Also what size tip are you using on the gun?
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Not sure about the tip size, guns are NOT professional quality.
Home handyman trying for a pro finish with cheap gear....if only $ were not an issue #@#
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Dude, where in Adelaide are you getting this paint from?
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I'm not wanting to bag them, cause the staff have been very helpful
But... SA color in Edwardstown
Got my fingers crossed the semi gloss black acrylic will be brilliant :D
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No, obviously no bagging. Their stuff should be fine, but next time do yourself a favour and go to protec.
Also, its worth noting that you should use a wood sealer underneath the primer so that you prevent the wood from drinking the primer. You'll get a better top coat finish this way with less paint.
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If they are small pimples, this can happen if the paint dries as it leaves the gun. Keep your PSI low. 35 PSI should be ok for undercoats. It should go on smooth, but sometimes dry with pimples which are sanded out. The distance between the gun and the surface should be the same as the distance between your outstretches thumb to pinkie. Also, don't paint in the sun, and don't paint in less than 20 degrees temp outside.
It takes a lot of practice to get it right, and once you know the gun and the paint, you can make adjustments as you go along.
The Protec paints as described by Sinbad79 are very good to work with.
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Also, its worth noting that you should use a wood sealer underneath the primer so that you prevent the wood from drinking the primer.
Hi Sinbad79
Could you elaborate on the wood sealer. Is there a particular type? Do you spray it on or roll it on? etc. etc.
Cheers Dan
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The lumps in the paint were unfortunately straight from the can - hence the strain suggestion is probably right on. But really I would not expect the need to strain a brand new tin of anything!
Therefore the pimples I was getting were the lumps in the can being ejected from the gun tip.
Good suggestion on spraying in the sunlight - yes I did do that yesterday!
Never the less, the surface is sanding very easily and the result looks pretty good. I do think I'll apply one more coat to ensure I'm happy with it.
Thanks all
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By the looks of your first photo, you can still see the plywood grain patterns through your primer.
I'd be applying another couple thicker coats without sanding in between to try and build the layers to "fill" or minimise the grain effect - so that it isnt visible underneath your decals. maybe even skim these areas with some finishing putty / bog (2 part).
As for the wood sealer, its sprayed on, just go speak to an automotive paint shop (a good one) and describe to them what you're trying to achieve. Tell them you're painting a kitchen and want a sealer for underneath the primer you'll be using.
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Ok I said I wasn't going to, but SA Color's primer/sand/filler is crap ^.^
Used up the entire litre, and could not get anywhere near where I was happy.
Sanded a heap off, including the lumps that came from a brand new supply, and drove to Super Cheap Auto and purchased primer/filler off the shelf.
This had zero lumps, mixed beautifully and applied even better. The cabinet I think looks great, and is now ready for top coat.
When I compare the 2 products, it was chalk and cheese - now I have my fingers crossed the black acrylic from SA Color (already purchased!) doesn't cost me another trip to SCA - tomorrow will tell!!!
Thanks again for all the advice - cheers
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Take the paint and primer back for a refund dude! Dont chance it.
Then go to SA paint supplies.
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Take the paint and primer back for a refund dude! Dont chance it.
Then go to SA paint supplies.
+1
Sorry to hear you are having problems. Just ensure that BEFORE you re apply the primer (from the new supplier), sand the cabinet with 180 Grit. You may have sanded using 800 Grit in anticipation for the topcoat. You need to take a step back before going forward. It is frustrating, but you are learning some valuable experience.
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Thanks Nino, before I applied the SCA primer/filler, I did sand the cabinet, but it was only with 400 grit paper. I had already re-applied when I read your comments.
Top coat has been applied this morning and no lumps in the acrylic . . .
Now being no expert and never having painted a cabinet before my learning curve is HUGE.
I applied two lighter coats, covering up all the undercoat and then very lightly sanded with 1500 grit. Surface air blown and felt really smooth.
Another coat all over paying particular attention to edges and corners not covered by decals.
Now my question, where I applied a slightly heavier coat on the edges and corners the finish is nice and mostly smooth, the remainder of the cabinet has very small bumps.
Do I lightly rub back again with 1500 and leave it, decals will cover? and maybe just touch up any exposed areas not covered by decals? The paint shop also suggested the surface could be polished with car polish - would this affect decal adhesion?
I'm getting there....cheers
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Any bump will stand out like a zit on a bride with decals.
If must be flat and level. Dont rush it as once decals are down you will kick yourself. Its all in the prep
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Thanks Nino, before I applied the SCA primer/filler, I did sand the cabinet, but it was only with 400 grit paper. I had already re-applied when I read your comments.
Top coat has been applied this morning and no lumps in the acrylic . . .
Now being no expert and never having painted a cabinet before my learning curve is HUGE.
I applied two lighter coats, covering up all the undercoat and then very lightly sanded with 1500 grit. Surface air blown and felt really smooth.
Another coat all over paying particular attention to edges and corners not covered by decals.
Now my question, where I applied a slightly heavier coat on the edges and corners the finish is nice and mostly smooth, the remainder of the cabinet has very small bumps.
Do I lightly rub back again with 1500 and leave it, decals will cover? and maybe just touch up any exposed areas not covered by decals? The paint shop also suggested the surface could be polished with car polish - would this affect decal adhesion?
I'm getting there....cheers
Cabinet prep before primer should be with 180 Grit. This allows the primer to really bite into the wood. No sanding inbetween the 2-3 coats of primer.
Then use 800 Grit after the primer is done before the basecoat. Any higher grit, will cause adhesion problems for the topcoat. This won't be an issue for you, as you are placing a decal and the aim is to have a flat finish. But if you were stencilling, the adhesion of the stencil COULD be stronger than the adhesion of the basecoat to the primer. Remove the stencil and off comes the base !
Once I'm done with the basecoat, rub slightly with a red scotchbrite and then before applying the decal, wipe down with a tack rag - VERY IMPORTANT. Apply the decal immediately.
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Decals adhere better to a completely smooth finish.. they are a bugger to take off glass as its a dead flat surface but very easy to take off something like acrylic as its a rough surface. Personally, I wouldn't be using the scotchbrite at all... close to mirror finish as possible and then apply
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Just make sure you leave the paint to cure completely, otherwise the decals will bubble.
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Scitchbrite is also good for imperfections. Pimples can be very hard to see, but they can sometimes be caught by the scotchbrite fibers. It is almost impossible to find them, but one will always find there way under the applied decal.
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In the auto industry the pimples are called solvent boil. Mostly occurs when one coat isn't dry enough and the second coat reacts with the first.
Always filter your paint when being use in a spray gun.
Good to see the finish isn't too bad from that crummy paint.
Simon.