The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: pinball god on November 03, 2015, 11:29:36 PM
-
Hi guys, removed my ducksan from the rfm to replace with a new WG crt and video amplifier. Problem is the holes on the new chasis does not line up at all on the mounting plate on the p2000 bracket.
My question is, I am making a subplate from perspex to mount the chasis using plastic standoffs and mount this onto the existing metal plate. Is this going to be a problem ie. Does it get real hot for the perspex to melt or any other reasons to dump this mod.
-
Difficult to say without seeing your idea put together. If the perspex subframe has a sufficient air gap from the tube itself and is made of thick perspex capable of carrying the weight of the tube, then it should be okay. If you are asking the perspex to span a considerable space without good support, I would advise against it. The last thing you want is the perspex breaking, the tube moving and potentially damaging it and other parts of the machine.
-
sorry for not explaining it vey well. The chassis I'm referring to is the pcb with all the adjustment controls etc
The first pic is of the main bracketing with the outside plate where the chassis and secondary plate connect to. The second is of the secondary plate that the chassis actually mounts to. I think this ensures no solder points will touch metal on the first plate. The problem is no holes on the new chassis match.
The third pic is of the chassis and fourth is where the secondary plate slots into the other plate. In fact in this shot I have a sheets of perspex attached to the metal plate and only needs 4 holes/slots for pcb plastic standoffs to enable mounting the chassis to it.
-
I'm also thinking I could even do away with the solid metal plate all together but may weaken the bracketing structure
-
Thanks for painting the picture. Your assumptions are correct and your solution seems like a good one. If the frame looses it's structural strength without the plate you could always drill and tap new holes to line up with the new chassis. As long as when you mount the new chassis all of the conductive surfaces (components, solder joints) remain free from touching the metal surface. Or mount the perspex plate in place of the perspex as you mentioned.
-
Is there a reason you didn't swap out for a lcd screen?
-
Is there a reason you didn't swap out for a lcd screen?
yep I have a new crt and think they produce a nicer effect
-
Ok all together and the result is crap. I have this for picture. I get distorted graphics and 'no signal in' constantly appearing.
I connected 5v via the pc and have it, and have connected as per stuff on the web pins 1;2;3 rgb, 4&8 ground and pin 10 +/- horizontal sync/comp
My problem is I followed a wells gardner 19K7302 (the one my wife broke) and my new one bought from wayne is PD137700/PD197700.
Any idea what causes this kind of picture? Do I need to add more wiring to say the vertical sync (hope not)?
I've as careful in research and testing my connections etc so am really dejected from the result. Any help would be appreciated.
Oh I also cannot get the osd button to work to try any adjustments to the monitor and I have left the h/v trace in tact on the amplifier. Apparently you need to cut it when using a ducksan, dunno what it actually does???
-
This is an issue with the ground or sync, somewhere along the line you have not connected either sync or ground correctly or the amp your using is not passing it.. You will not be able to use any buttons on the chassis without having a video sync input to the chassis ..ie a picture..
You should try removing the amp from the equation and connect directly to make sure your wiring is good..
Really the amp is not necessary and is only used to compensate for a poorly adjusted chassis of which the original wells and ducksan are, due to the lower signal from the PC. Adjusting the RGB drives and bias's usually on the neck board will get you the same result as fitting the amp would do on the original chassis..
-
Thank you Dan, I was afraid you might say something about sync. I have only connected horiz sync as a guide I read for the amplifier install by a user said didn't bother with the vert sync and all was good. Stipid me should have made a provision for a wire on pin 9 for vert sync on the connector but didn't. Could this be a good place to start?
Now I'm figuring I need to unplug it from the crt and add a wire. Should I discharge the monitor prior to attempting the remove the molex connector? I'm worried its going to be tough to remove and I may hit the crt neck and crack it. Is there a correct way of taking off a molex plug as I always struggle to remove them from my pinball pcb's. They have a triangular catch near the pins. Thanks
-
It really looks like you have no sync at all getting to the monitor ( horizontal or vertical), the pinouts you describe are correct for the new chassis you have as long as you have them connected that way and havent made an error.. You can try adding the vertical sync but it really should not be needed unless this chassis has an issue with some composite sync signals. If you do try the vertical sync you should cut the trace on your amp board so they become separate.. Also some chassis have a sync select switch on them, im not sure about the chassis you have but see if there is one on the chassis..
Can you take a picture of your connections ( video) both ends from amp to chassis? And you did confirm the 5volts you connected is there and correct?
No need to discharge the monitor, the part your working on is isolated from the High Voltage, the only time you need to discharge is when your removing the chassis completely from the tube..
If you still have it you should use the old video lead from the original chassis, do not use the AMP, make all the connections and see what you get..
Just slowly wiggle the connector back and forth or use a flat screwdriver to pry it if your having trouble..
-
Thanks Dann36 for taking an interest in my dilemma. I have attached a couple of shots of the homemade cabling. Btw I just buzzed for continuity from the chassis pins to the amplifier connections and all good. Also buzzed the frame to ground on the chassis connector and to a earth braid and all good. Tested 5vdc and get about 4.9vdc. Finally the 5vdc wire seems ok as I did remove it from the amplifier and got no graphics at all.
Hope this can help with a possible solution. The crt does have a sync jumper but I can't see its location easily or its setting. Thanks again
-
I forgot to address one of your questions. The crt I replaced was a ducksan so dunno if the original cable would work with the wg???
-
Gday mate'
The cable should be fine, you just might have to re-pin the chassis end. I would try this as all your saying is pointing to the Vid amp..
Can you measure the voltage on the H sync line, measure on the input to the amp and the output to the chassis, Pin 13 of the vga connector is H-Sync.
Also if you have any old video games ( 15K games) or a 60 in one board or similar set to 15K, you could connect them up to the chassis to double check your leads and confirm your chassis is good..
-
What kind of voltage am I looking for? Amount and type ? Thanks Dan
-
Measure for DC volts with respect to ground. Anywhere up to 5 Volts..
You could also try linking the sync from the input of that amp to the output so that you are bypassing the amp on the sync line but still running the RGB signals through it..
-
got 4.9vdc from power supply and 3.45vdc from amp input side where orange wire is and 3.45vdc from amp output where pin 13 would plug in from the vga cable. I also buzzed out pin 13 on the vga cable that came with the amp and it beeped ok. So all my readings came from the amp as I disconnected the vga cable/pc. Thanks
-
Just had a thought, can my homemade crt to amp cabling be too long and cause a voltage drop? Reason I ask is that I had no idea what length of wiring was required and so purchased about 3m of wires of which I have left intact until I was sure of things working. So my interface cable is at least over 2m long
Update I measured 3.4vdc from the chassis where the orange wire/sync connects to
-
Lead should be fine at that length..
The measurements sound about rite to me, but you should have left everything plugged in and running so you measured the actual sync signal coming from the PC..
I think its time to eliminate that amp as a suspect, grab your old video lead and use that to connect up to the chassis. You will need to change the pin-out to match the wells and most likely the connector housing..
-
Dan we may be on to something??? I plugged in the vga cable that came with the amp and took a reading on the orange sync line on the amp. So the vga cable is connected to the amp and pc. I got 0.16vdc. Unplugged the vga cable from the amp only and get a reading of 3.45vdc on the orange wire connected to the amp and crt.
So before bypassing the amp I thought I'd check with you. Could it be the amp, the vga cable or both or none of the above? Thanks
-
0.16 is not correct at all, either the sync is being held down by the VGA lead, the amp or is not coming out of the PC..
What voltage do you get on the VGA leads sync pin with only the VGA lead connected to the pc and nothing else?
Also just double check your leads are in the correct positions just to be sure your measuring rite..
-
Thanks for the fast response. I get zero volts. My black lead goes to com, also I connected black lead to chassis frame when testing
-
Sorry my last reply for the 0.16 Volts is wrong, i didnt read it correctly.... 0.16 Volts sounds about rite
You should be getting around the voltage you measured 0.16..anywhere around there will be ok..
with just the vga lead connected to the PC you should be reading the H sync voltage at around the 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 volts. Can you double check that? black lead on the PC case or any ground, red lead on the vga H sync pin with the VGA lead only connected to the PC, no amp, no chassis, you shouldnt be getting 0 Volts..
-
I contributed to the error as the actually reading was and is today 0.26vdc I figured it was so low that its close enough to zero. So we may be back to square one ^&^ reading taken from pin 13 on vga cable, third pin from bottom left of cable facing me
-
Still no progress to a solution. Are vga cables easily available from places like jaycar as I think I'll try and make a new cable to bypass the amp. I don't want to trash the ducksan cable just in case I need to go back to the old crt. Hope that won't be the case &^&. Thanks
-
Officeworks should have a standard VGA cable
-
UPDATE: I used vga connector from my swep1 that has a wg crt. Good news is the my crt on the rfm works with the amp bypassed and swep1 vga cable.
But before going ahead making a new cable and maybe doing away with the amp, I did notice I forgot to put an rf filter on my vga cable with amp mod connected. Could this cause the problem I have been getting? Ie. No signal in error and trashy picture???
I'll wait for any responses before proceeding any further.
I'm glad the crt is ok as its been sitting in storage for yonks and so out of warranty
-
Thats great...
Its doubtful that a filter will correct the no sync issue..It would help remove any noise on the lines though that would show up in the colours. But unless you have an issue like that i wouldn't bother..
If you want to keep the amp you could use it for the RGB signals and simply link the sync signal past the amp..
Or the chassis you have might just have trouble with a composite sync signal even though it does support it. So you could cut the sync trace ( should be labeled CUT FOR H V SYNC or similar) on the amp PCB and feed out separate sync signals. Your chassis might like that better.. This is assuming your amp PCB is not faulty..
Honestly the AMP PCB is not needed, a correctly adjusted chassis will produce a better result every time. The only time one of the amp PCB's would come in useful is if the chassis you were using had very limited RGB adjustments..
-
I found a 15 pin cable which I'm guessing is vga cable. it had a male and female plug and I cut off the female end. There's 16 wires including an uninsulated wire. Also pin 9 is missing. The wires are quite thin.
Is this cable ok to use? Also what pins need to be connected with what? I have the swep1 cable to copy maybe but really need to be sure about the cable I'm using. The Swep1 cable is using 8 wires with what looks like a thicker black wire that may have heat shrink on it???? I think it goes to pin 6 on the chassis.
thanks
-
Going to make a plug tonight, but have two styles I can use. The one pictured above and I just hacked up a vga/dvi cable that has larger r/g/b wires which are made up of two wires, an outer shielding type wires and a insulate inner core. Which cable is best and if the latter, I am supposing cutting away the outer wires and only using the inner. Please advise if possible
-
All done and dusted. Canned the amp and made the interface vga cable. Screen looks great. Thanks to Dan and Martyj and the supplier of amp. He said the crt doesn't require it so my bad and Dan is spot on. Last option was to try connecting the syncs direct but thought what is the point. Ah well have a spare ducksan crt and amp that will go with it.
-
Other than some heckling from the side lines i think thats all i added! I could fill a warehouse with what i dont know about CRTs.
Good job to you and Dan
-
Yep learnt lots about crt's. The best advise you gave, although may not be correct, was concerning discharging the crt. I'm still breathing $#$