The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: mark jackson on July 25, 2009, 10:56:56 PM
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Evening All, Let's count this as the start of a restoration of a Bank A Ball. Unusually for me, I took lots of 'before' shots, so I'll start by putting up a few. ... some 'dodgy parts' of the machine as I found it... I'm looking for help with parts and ideas to get the job done successfully. It's basically in real sad shape, but I have a repro backglass, and some balls for the 3d backglass animation...but that could be the least of my problems....so here's what this one is actually like.... Mark
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Are they home made flipper bats on it?
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Here's a few more .... Mark
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No they're not home made flippers...In 60's flippers of this kind you have a metal part (showing) which is where the plastic 'flipper bat is attached. I have these cleaned and ready to put back on .... after I work out what the hell I'm gonna do with this playfield. Thanks, Gav, for the tips on removing this clear coat... I'll try a few things and see what's cookin'. I showed a couple of parts I need ...the frame for a pop bumper, the big coil and housing in the head, ....what's the deal with those 'modern' coils for the flippers??? I'm just gonna change them back....and the worst of the cabinet. The other side is quite good, so I'm thinking of doing a 'touch up' restore on the cabinet paint, and try to keep as much of this original paintwork as I can....do they make blue coloured webbed paint yet?? There's a lot to do here...I'm glad it's a 60's Gottlieb Wedgehead..at least you know it's gonna be worth the time, money and effort. Cheers, Mark
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Ahh, hadn't seen ones like that before...Wow. Great project and I'm sure it will look great when you're finished.
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Well im sorry to say mark Ive looked over them photos and im yet to see a bad part !@# (Its a bank a ball so its all good) Looks like a great Project i have spare pop bumper brackets but not the brass plated ones the coil and bracket im sure i have aswell. If you can take me a photo of the coil and bracket you have ill see what i can find for ya ^^^
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Looks like it will come up smik
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Mark This is my favourite pin of all time.Played it to death when I was a kid at the slot car track in Newcastle.(Spurrs hangout, although I did not know him then) I sold mine about 10 years ago and regret it big time. I have seen your work and know this machine will end up sparkling.All the best, Mark.
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Mark,
That looks like one of the better condition classic 1960s Gottlieb's *%*
I think it will come up sweet - keep the updates coming!
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Howdy All, I had a pretty good week in pinball restoration. The best part was that when I was taking things off the playfield, the posts were kind of stuck to the clear coat. When I budged them free I noticed that they 'lifted' the clear coat, and chipped it as well. I guess it was Shellac but it's all off now, (2 distinct layers). It took 3 days of chipping away, but it came off very cleanly in the end.....and except for what's obviously 'wrong' with the touch up, the playfield is in very good condition...When I got the browning Shellac off, the real colours of the playfield came shining through, and I knew for the first time, that I was 'winning' with this machine. I've also managed to clean, polish, and clear coat some brass parts...flipper assembly (under playfield), kicking rubber frame brackets, pop bumper frames, targets and a bit of this and that. And if that wasn't enough, my new repro backglass arrived from the USA. ...like I said, it was a pretty good week in restoration.....Cheers, Mark
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Good to hear Mark i havnt had a chance to look for them parts yet hopefully soon ^^^
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Mark,
What did you use to get the Shellac off the playfield?
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Tony, I firstly used my nail until I realised that it's like a form of torture...I then used this ...I cut a strip of the plastic that my 'Nicorette' chewing gum comes in. It's the same as how most tablets are packaged... Well, that thickness of plastic, plus with a 'rounded corner' was enough to 'get in under' the layers and make it come away. Some areas went down easy, but it wouldn't be pinball if the whole thing was like that. Mark
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Howdy All, some pics ... I hope. Mark
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....the pics show how it was when the shellac was half off. There's a before and after of the score motor area. The p/f shot shows how reasonable the faults are, once I get rid of the existing touch up paint....Mark
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I love the score motor Mark that looks awsome ^^^
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Hey Mark
Fount this coil and bracket doesnt look exactly the same as the one you need but it might work untill you find the exact one? If you want to give it a try PM me your address and ill post it to you
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Hi lads and lassies, ..thanks for the help with the parts. I'm after a set of new legs and bolts for the machine....also 200 X 47s globes. ... Do you know wherer might be the cheapest place? I've basically been working on the head for about 2 weeks. ... the 15 ball relays, 1, 10, 100 point relays, 10 point bell, replay unit, and the score reels....as well as starting to make my missing balls... it almost sounds painful!! I'll try some pics. Cheers, Mark
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...here's my first day on the arms/balls.... the other photos are before and after shots of the score reels, and the parts that need to be right if this reel is gonna work as it should....the sleeve, the barrel and the coil stop... the reel feels and sounds right now when you press in the plunger with a finger... Mark
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Can you please post info on the replacement balls for the backglass animation? These are commonly missing on Bank-a-Ball games. I'm sure many others would love to see a how-to posting on making your own. Or even making them available for sale.
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Hey Mark,
Been wondering where you got to....not much love around for these old girls on Aussie Pinball anymore !!!
Great to see you have been putting in some serious time on your game and I also would be interested to see how you went about rebuilding the missing animation balls.
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Super job on the score motor - and I appreciate the attention to detail on the score reels and the arms/balls. Inspirational !
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Great Job Mark man i love the brass i must get a one with the brass one day ^^^
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Wow Mark! ^^^
Judging by your great work so far, this game is going to look sensational when finished .
Looking forward to more progress pics . As Tony said, there just isn't enough happening with EM's on this site.
Cheers
Dave
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Wow Mark! ^^^
Judging by your great work so far, this game is going to look sensational when finished .
Looking forward to more progress pics . As Tony said, there just isn't enough happening with EM's on this site.
Cheers
Dave
Yeah - EMs have seemed to have died a slow death on Aussie Pinball.... my interest here is going the same way
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Wow Mark! ^^^
Judging by your great work so far, this game is going to look sensational when finished .
Looking forward to more progress pics . As Tony said, there just isn't enough happening with EM's on this site.
Cheers
Dave
Yeah - EMs have seemed to have died a slow death on Aussie Pinball.... my interest here is going the same way
Feeling the same always love to see EM work being done
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Wow Mark! ^^^
Judging by your great work so far, this game is going to look sensational when finished .
Looking forward to more progress pics . As Tony said, there just isn't enough happening with EM's on this site.
Cheers
Dave
Yeah - EMs have seemed to have died a slow death on Aussie Pinball.... my interest here is going the same way
AWWWWW Dont be like that Tony... heres some pics of my nice new bumper caps on APOLLO to keep you going... looks so much yummier than the red and yellow i had on there ( hate yellow)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/EM2.jpg)
And one of the new coin entry plates i got... went with the Aqua colour on these... suits APOLLO much better
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/EM4.jpg)
and finally the nice new deco red caps on PALOOKA... once again.. soooo much better than the crappy yellow ones - man this looks good now
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/EM5.jpg)
Hope ya feel better pal
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Great Pics there Gav. Gotta agree re Palooka .. looks fantastic ^^^
One day I wanna get an Apollo !!!
Cheers
Dave
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Dave,
APOLLO is my #1 game.. its definately my favourite to play - and tough too! Not that easy to beat this game, to go through the whole game and get SPECIAL lit let alone actually score it is harder than you think..
Love PALOOKA - real quirky looking machine, real pretty all lit up and fun also... Holy crap - how many "keepers" can a man have?
I managed 1 game on Bank A ball before breaking her up to restore, then put aside to come back to. Got a feeling APOLLO and this will go side by side - another cracker of a game ( just to get back on thread)
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Howdy all, I managed to get the 15 balls up and running today...I still have to do a little 'painting' ...a couple of stripes, the lettering and circle in black, and I'll probably paint the arms the same colour as the ball it is for... I'll take more shots soon, but have a few others in the meantime. Cheers, Mark
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Wow Mark! ^^^
Judging by your great work so far, this game is going to look sensational when finished .
Looking forward to more progress pics . As Tony said, there just isn't enough happening with EM's on this site.
Cheers
Dave
Yeah - EMs have seemed to have died a slow death on Aussie Pinball.... my interest here is going the same way
Not at all Tony.
As summer gets closer, I'll be respaying some Cabinets and I'll be gearing up to do some very interesting titles that have not been seen in people's collections
Expect to see the Pro Football respayed - Ironically, I pulled out the cabinet tonight whilst cleaning out my garage. So I'm not far off..
Here's what I have in the queue ;
Canada Dry
Star Jet
A-Go-Go
Shangri La
Volley
Buccaneer
Old Chicago
Aces High
Spirit of 76
Thats JUST the EMs !
$#$
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Howdy all, I managed to get the 15 balls up and running today...I still have to do a little 'painting' ...a couple of stripes, the lettering and circle in black, and I'll probably paint the arms the same colour as the ball it is for... I'll take more shots soon, but have a few others in the meantime. Cheers, Mark
How nice is that Mark! I think you have raised the EM restoration bar again , and I didn't really think that was possible
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'Evening All, .... To answer the call about the 15 balls and arms.... I had to replace #s 2,4,6,10,15... as these were missing. The first thing to do is clean the whole unit, as you don't want the grease and crap getting on the balls as you are handling them...I found a guy in the US who sold me a set 1-15 of balls that were the same size as the B A B balls. They were plastic and solid... So they had to be cut in half. I did this with a Dremel mini angle grinder. I firstly taped the half of the ball I wanted to keep, and kept the tape wrapping for a bit, to create something to hold on the ball by. I finished off with sanding (grade 40 would you believe, to cut through this plastic.)
The arms I made by copying the shape of one of the arms I had, and drawing this on the brass metal I had...........Here's a minor confession..When I had my first Bank A Ball (around 1992-2004) I took off a brass cover which is in the head, covering the replay unit. It's just a flat piece around 15 X 15 cm..Needless to say, I never put it back on, and then sold the machine.....Well, it's kind of poetic justice that I used this piece to make my arms...Metal is good as the arms bend, and then straighten. The metal makes it possible to get a very close replication of the arms. Because I was going to a flat surface on the balls, I made some small 'L' shaped bits, and screwed them to the end part of the arm (where it attaches to the ball.) I got some very
small screws and nuts, and drillbit/s from my local Hobby store. I used an angle grinder to cut most of the shape, and finished it off with my mini angle grinder (dremel, I think it's called).
I then stuck the balls to the 'L' shaped bit. I had to treat each ball as special case, as the margin for error is very small. The ball can't be too thin or too thick. The arm with the 'L' shaped bit can't stick out more than the original...the angle and width of the attaching end of the arm has to be about the same...The good news...gluing the L shaped bit to the balls is easy, as you can move the ball around so it's evenly spaced between its neighbours, and the correct height. I used Araldite and let it get real tacky before I joined the ball to the 'L' shaped bit. The pictures of the arms are below, and basically show the whole deal......I was a challenge for me, and I'm relieved that it seems to be working out. I'll get some pics soon. Have a great weekend everyone. Mark
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Here's a few pics ... head is now complete, and balls just require some paint here and there. Now I've done motor board and head, playfield is stable and not too difficult from here....decided to see if I could 'touch up' cabinet paint rather than sand this unique artwork, what with the blue webbing paint and all. One side of the cab is not too bad, but the other is very marked and slashed. ....we'll see. Anyway, some progress. Mark
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Mark - That's simply exceptional. Have a look at those balls and the shine on the steppers units etc.
That takes some real patience and dedication @@*
Well done !
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Facinating - those balls look like real 8 ball balls.
Doesnt it make a difference when they have the correct bumper caps fitted.
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Mark,
That looks so good! Keep the updates coming, really looking forward to seeing the next stages of restoration!
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Howdy All, I'm back from hols, and have just about finished the cabinet re-spray. I'll try a pic or two. Mark
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She looks soooooo sweet - good as new.
Keep the updates coming Mark - your inspirational!
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Agreed that looks awsome Mark and look at that nice shiny brass ball return looks great against the new paintwork *%*
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Simply amazing ! Need some pictures of the inside of the cabinet. Looks to me like there has been some serious polishing going on ^^^
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Howdy everyone, I thought I'd put up a few pics tonight, and maybe say something about them later. Mark
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Howdy All, I'm back from hols, and have just about finished the cabinet re-spray. I'll try a pic or two. Mark
That cabinet is great because it’s so true to the original technique…ie no tape out; not to mention the result. As you are so meticulous you might want to consider removing the old lacquer around the flippers with a razor blade. I did it recently to a quick draw and am happy with the result. You can also use the technique in the ball arch area to get rid if the old ball track marks.
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Top results Mark,
She looks like she is up with your usual highest of standards
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Hi pinball lovers, .... the pics I put up represent where I'm up to. The head is finished (theoretically). The repro glass looks good to me. There's a close-up of the balls..To refresh your memory, #s 2,4,6,10, and 15 I made up as they were missing. It was hard to paint the white spot and do the circle and number in black. I also added stripes to #10, and 15. The playfield is at an interesting point. I've worked on the green on the pool table, the cream of the arrows, the yellow at lower playfield and the blue on the guy's shirt, as well as the pop bumper circles. ... I'm not sure where to stop. I could do the whole of the yellow, but would that not destroy the 'life' of the machine? Same argument for doing all the pool table green. All opinions considered and appreciated, as I'm really not sure how far I should go. The rest of the yellow is reasonable, with some crasing, and minor chips and blemishes...but overall, fair enough. Hence my hesitation at what to do??? I still have to work on the 'Gottlieb' sign at lower playfield, as well as redo the lines I took out with the respray. If anyone has a couple of tips about using the air-brush, that may also help. This machine is my first experience using the air-brush. Mostly it goes ok, although the cream for the arrows kind of 'clung' to the sides of the stencil in a way that the green never behaved??? Was it too thick? too thin? Some help would be great. Anyway, I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel. Happy trails, Mark
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wow that is some seriously good work!!! Well done!!
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Hi all Pinball Folks, ......... Just a quick update. ... I'm now waiting a day or so before spraying the playfield with some clear coat. I do this not so much to protect the surface, but to give all the sections of the playfield the same sheen, whether they've been 'worked on' or not. .... I've been going slowly with it over the last month. This is for a few reasons ... Firstly, I find the playfield work the most demanding part of the whole deal. I'm not a professional artist, and this machine had many and varied problems on its playfield. There was the area around the pop bumpers (which you'd expect to do), the pool table was a mess due to the wear and tear, and also a pretty ugly attempt to 'touch up'. There was also the guy's blue shirt, the yellow in places was not great, and there was some writing on the Gottlieb sign missing, and the sign generally was pretty poor. So, for me there comes a point where any further work actually creates as many problems as you are trying to fix. You got to know when to fold 'em, as the old song says.
After much thought I've decided to put down a one sheet mylar, after I do the clear coat. I've found that this is the most sure-fire way of protecting the playfield, and it makes it possible to use the game as if it were new. ... nothing will wear again, or chip or do anything where you find yourself re-doing some part of the playfield due to further ball wear etc. I just hate having to come back to a machine once I've done work on a playfield, and having to fix some part again due to further wear.
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..........I continue (as the thing sometimes just posts itself when I'm not finished??!! ................. the other thing I would mention is a strange aspect which usually happens to me, and I wonder if it's the same for others. ..... When I get to a certain point with a machine (say: about 90% done), I find myself really going slow and it becomes like 'pushing a load uphill'. That is it becomes almost like going in slow motion. I put this down to the difficulty of the playfield work, and the 'dreamlike' state which overcomes me. I guess it's because by now, I've been at it for 3-4 months, and it feels like I dream about 'Bank A Ball', as well as the concentration on it in my waking hours. Does anyone else have similar experiences with the machines they restore? .... Fortunately, this phase passes and then it all comes on with a rush during the 'putting it all back' stage, which follows the painting part. For myself, I really enjoy putting all parts back on the machine, as they are already done, cleaned, adjusted and replaced where necessary. Anyway, I'll attach a few pics, and look forward to finally putting a clear coat over what has been done. Cheers, Mark
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.............just thought I'd remind you what this playfield was like when I bought this machine......Mark
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Interesting thoughts there Mark - and you know - you are not alone !!
I think I get to 90% of a restore and then I "worry" about "missing" something - Like a minor detail that I've overlooked. I think I get to a stage where I need a new set of eyes to QA my games.
The BIG restores concern me that I don't scratch or break something as I get towards the very end.
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Very nice work there - despite your status as a non-professional artist, you have great concentration and attention to detail!
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Thanks for the update Mark!
Totally agree with the final 10%, it's not just the time, I find it is the actual effort needed to 'push it across the line'
Suppose large restorations like you have done sometimes feel as though you are 'treading water' so to speak....you can put in all this effort and feel like you aren't getting anywhere.
Good to hear I'm not alone in the way I feel restoring games
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Totally agree - I think the challenge and how it will look and play at the end that keeps you going and coming back for more. *%*
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Agree about the last 10% ill always find something else i need to do or redo
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That's gorgeous
And clean and shiny :) Very nice!
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Agree about the last 10% ill always find something else i need to do or redo
Too true....even when you are 'finished' there is always something else that could be done to improve it
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Agree about the last 10% ill always find something else i need to do or redo
Too true....even when you are 'finished' there is always something else that could be done to improve it
Too true
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Never being 100% satisfied with your work is all part of the game - were it not for this there would never be the push to continually improve. There is always some part of the finished product where you didnt do your best work - slight "off" day etc. This will glare out at you like the dogs balls, but Joe Blow would never notice it.
I quite often walk away from a restore just before the end - i find i get too finicky and need to look at it with fresh eyes again.. i often come back and think "christ - i did nice work there" whereas a month before it was irritating the crap out of me and i was ready to throw it out of the window.
But putting it all back together and seeing all that hard work come to life as a beautiful looking shiny pin is just the very best feeling - it will take pride of place in the line up for quite some time!
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Never being 100% satisfied with your work is all part of the game - were it not for this there would never be the push to continually improve. There is always some part of the finished product where you didnt do your best work - slight "off" day etc. This will glare out at you like the dogs balls, but Joe Blow would never notice it.
I quite often walk away from a restore just before the end - i find i get too finicky and need to look at it with fresh eyes again.. i often come back and think "christ - i did nice work there" whereas a month before it was irritating the crap out of me and i was ready to throw it out of the window.
But putting it all back together and seeing all that hard work come to life as a beautiful looking shiny pin is just the very best feeling - it will take pride of place in the line up for quite some time!
AMEN brother ^^^
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Greetings all, I just thought I'd make a list of what parts I replaced during the restoration of Bank A Ball. I'm sure that I've forgotten a few things but the attached list tells its own story. You can't restore a machine by just replacing a bunch of parts and other stuff, but replacing worn out/broken parts is a necessary part of the deal. ....what a list! Mark
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Hi everyone, Today was a pretty good day in pinball...It went from a standing start to all working except...it starts from the coin mech but not the replay button...also, it neither adds replays nor subtracts them...and consistent with this, when the 8 Ball is lit (for a free game) it does not give a free game, and hence the 'High' and 'Low' Specials lights do not light.....sounds to me like it's probably in the add/subtract game wheel in the head, ...but what do you reckon?? The game starts, plays, ends, and resets as normal.
Any suggestions to fix the problem/s would be great. Apart from that, ....I love it when a plan comes together... Mark
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........ Hey, I really love 'before' and 'after' shots, so here's original pics of Bank A Ball, which show what it whas like at the time I purchased it. Mark
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Spurry raves about the resto you have done on this, a very nice job and machine.
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Love your work, Mark - Super Effort ^^^
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Hard to see that the before and after shots are of the same game.
Just amazing work and another beautiful classic Gottlieb saved.
So what is next Mark? #@#
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Howdy pinball fans, ... Just thought I'd put up a few more pics, and give a bit of a rundown on how things went. I worked out the things that were not quite right, except for one thing. It still won't respond off the replay button, but all else solved. I learned a few things....the not adding or subtracting replays was solved by adjustment of contacts in the free game unit in the head. I just worked both add and subtract coils by hand, and watched when switches were either opened or closed. Often when you know what the part is supposed to be doing on the game, you can just watch and see if a contact is working or not. The problem about the '9' not going out when ball rolls through the '14' and '9' rollover was tricky. I first thought that the problem would be in the #9 stuff in the head. Not so. When I looked at the contacts and solder on the blades it all looked fine...But I decided to 'freshen' all the solder to those blades. Now both '14' and '9' drop as they should, so the problem must have been a 'dry' solder join on one of those blades. Apart from that I had to pull one of the score reels down .. (and for the first time ever, I loosened off the Allan key nut on outside of score reel, and slightly 'moved' a supporting block on inside of score reel. This worked so that the 'spring back' effect worked cleanly and properly. This made the score reel work as it should.
I also learned how much I really love Gottlieb wedgeheads of the 60's. They're just great machines, with great functioning mechanical parts. Anyway, a few pics. Cheers, Mark
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Thats an awsome effort there and on a fantastic title. You must be very happy ^^^
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Hi, It's Mark here again...So, a summary....I bought this as a non working wreck...With the wicked price I paid for the lovely repro backglass, I spent about $1500 on parts, plus paint, paper, brushes etc. Let's say $1700 for good measure. I spent 6 months of my life on it, working most days and many hours on many days. It's not perfect, but that's not the object of restoration. But it IS like a new machine. I tried to do everything on the machine...all cleaned, adjusted, replaced where it needed it. It's as close to original art and original mechanical condition as I could possibly get it, and it plays like a new machine. ...not just the flippers and bumpers, but scorereels, motor, reset coils, relays etc. ..like I said I tried to do everything on the machine.
What's my time worth? Let's say that I spent 250 hours on it (even though it was much more), and let's use $30 hr as a reasonable rate... You can do the maths, but my point is this. One day I'll sell this machine and I'll put a figure on it somewhere around $7500....and you know what?? It'll be worth it. Commercial operators are asking around $5000 for reasonable (not great) examples of these machines, and they aren't doing anywhere near the work to them that I do with every machine I have restored. So, even though we all hear about 'cheap' machines, they are cheap because they are usually wrecked. I reckon pinball is a lot like life ... you only get what you pay for.
I've really enjoyed doing this one, as I had been having a break from pinball for the few years before this (and the Queen Of Diamonds). Bank A Ball is a truly wonderful game, and if you're passing through the Central Coast and would like a few games, feel free to call 02 4328 1016 and we can make a time. Fellow restorers are most welcome. Thanks to all of you who helped or responded to my questions. Special thanks to Mark Hanlon who gave me a flyer signed by Bank A Ball designer Ed Krinsky! Special thanks to Tony, who is a real straight shooter. Until the next machine, happy trails. Mark
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Has come up a gem Mark @@* @@* - Well worth the time and effort you have spent on it.
Kev
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One of the best EMs in the country, Mark. And you are right when you say you need to have a break in between high level restorations. The amount of detail and dedication needed to restore at this level is sometimes to the point of being ridiculously time consuming. But you get there in the end, and you have a talking point within the collection and also the satisfaction of knowing you have given the machine the best possible outcome possible. The value of the game can sometimes be more or less that "market" value - but then again - "what is market value" with this kind of work. Would "Joe Public" have an opportunity to buy such a machine ? Also - sometimes the "value" the experience has given to you (the restorer) makes up for any shortcomings in the price of the game - should you sell it. I always think of the "enjoyment" the 100 + hours gave me, as the restorer.
You lifted the bar on this restoration. Congrats..
Well done ^^^
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Outstanding work. ^^^
The machine will probably last a 100 years more now.
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Just cant get enough of your restorations Mark.....she is a stunner!
Lets hope that it inspires just one collector here to undertake a classic 1960s pin. They are still out there to be found.
So Mark (inside joke here) gotta ask....what is your next project? :lol
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Hey Tony, I currently have no project, but I'm looking for one....particularly if it has a good playfield. ... searching for a 60's wedgehead even as we speak. Mark
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Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your awesome work with us Mark . ^^^
I have thoroughly enjoyed following your resto on this one , and you have inspired me to continue to strive to put in the hours needed with my own 1968 EM that I am currently slowly restoring. (and have still never played in my life %.%)
Cheers
Dave