The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: illawarra_steelers on September 20, 2009, 07:05:57 PM
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Thought this might be of interest....(hope you have a bit of time to kill)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/d434c82734658b0f#
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I have only used it once (on Nugent), and applied 5 coats. I misted it on though (no way was it going to blow flakes off). Scarey stuff to hear about.
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Have heard of this before - good friend in USA had his APOLLO BG just completely drop out after TT had been on for 5 years - pulled in at the edges slightly and then one day just all fell off... another had a similar thing happen.
Ive never used it and never will.. ive also never sealed a BG unless it was necessary, can honestly say that i dont believe in sealing to protect a perfectly good BG - if she starts to go then of course address the issue, the coating should also be as thin as possible - the thicker it is, the more risk you take.... well, thats always been my theory and i aint budging from it.
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I only use it for BG's that are going to fall apart without it. However Clay Harrel swears by it buit does say its up to your spraypainting skill. I have not had a problem in 15 years with this but as the yanks say your mileage may vary.
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Thanks Tony for bringing this up. I have never used it and after reading this well I dont know. I have used mylar with great results although.
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I had been reading that thread the last couple of days, and it did get me worried. When I first got my Asteroid Annie, it was in the horrible old damp garage I had at the last house, and when I brought it in to start work, noticed that the ink had started slightly peeling in one area, so quickly gave it the triple thick treatment. Hadn't thought about it again until that RGP thread, pretty scary - the glass cost me more than the game! Not sure I'll do any more unless desperate.
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It has to be said though that thousands of BG's have been TT'd presumably successfully.
Bottom line is that no matter what BG you have, its a gamble just how long the artwork will remain on there - variables like humidity, temp change, scratches etc all speed up its demise. If a BG is flaking or lifting, its on its way out and TT will prolong its life quite a bit.
Are some BG's better than others? Well...yes, even off the same model game - one BG will outlast another - depends on how clean glass was at manufacture, composition of inks etc - A print off one day may last 10 years longer than a print off the next day - its just the way it works.
The European prints tend to be much better quality than US ones - a Segasa BG will have survived over the years looking far better than a Williams, Gottlieb reds are a problem etc etc etc.
I dont use TT, i dont touch a BG with anything unless i REALLY have to.
Yes the guys BG is ruined, but was it really necessary to TT?
If a BG is going to flake - its going to flake... what i do is watch the amount of flaking - normally starts at the bottom. Mark on the BG just where the flaking ends with a dot from a marker - if it goes beyond this, its dying a slow death and needs to be sealed. Chances are though that it may never go beyond the mark.. it may not flake any further... its all down to how well its adhered to the glass in the first place.
if you are going to seal then do it in light coats - allow to COMPLETELY set before the next coat - dont go doing it in thick amounts straight off.
The idea is to have the paint stuck to the glass, if the TT or whatever is used is thick and sets then any slight shrinkage will just pull off the artwork - after all something has to give, with light coats, shrinkage is at a bare minimum... and NEVER try to speed up the drying process, slowly but surely is the go
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I've never had issues with TT. As long as the glass is prepared correctly and you don't spray in hot or cold conditions, I don't see a problem. I NEVER Seal a backglass "for the hell of it" - I ONLY seal them when they are deteriorating to a point where it will get worse over time.
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I have been following it with much interest.
In all the years of collecting have never touched the rear of a backglass for this very reason
Not concerned about today...concerned about tomorrow and what might happen
The same applies for the clear coat on playfileds
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Clear coating PFs, how long have guys been doing this? I can see big problems when the CC starts to wear.
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Clear coating PFs, how long have guys been doing this? I can see big problems when the CC starts to wear.
Absolutely!!! Depending on the CC though - it can be removed
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I've never had issues with TT. As long as the glass is prepared correctly and you don't spray in hot or cold conditions, I don't see a problem. I NEVER Seal a back glass "for the hell of it" - I ONLY seal them when they are deteriorating to a point where it will get worse over time.
Not sure what to do now as just checked my kiss back glass and has just started to bubble in the middle of the kiss wording.Was a 10/10 now down to 8/10 not happy. ^.^
Have used TT before with no problems but not on a bally repro before.Should i go a head and do it as the bubbling only going to get worse or is there a better product to use.
Even a bigger problem is that i have a few other nos black glass and don't wont it to happen to them as well as all nos.Was going to TT them as well but don't no what to do or use now. ^&^
If i don't do something with them now ,they will start to bubble,and i will be not happy. !!!
What other products can i use and i don't wont to spray them and then check 3 month later and find out that i stuffed them all.
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Skybeau (Ken) rates Markseal.
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Not sure what to do now as just checked my kiss back glass and has just started to bubble in the middle of the kiss wording.Was a 10/10 now down to 8/10 not happy. ^.^
Weird. Is it in a game?. Do you have it stored somewhere?. Just curious to know if it's in your house, garage, shed etc.
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I've never had issues with TT. As long as the glass is prepared correctly and you don't spray in hot or cold conditions, I don't see a problem. I NEVER Seal a back glass "for the hell of it" - I ONLY seal them when they are deteriorating to a point where it will get worse over time.
Not sure what to do now as just checked my kiss back glass and has just started to bubble in the middle of the kiss wording.Was a 10/10 now down to 8/10 not happy. ^.^
Have used TT before with no problems but not on a bally repro before.Should i go a head and do it as the bubbling only going to get worse or is there a better product to use.
Even a bigger problem is that i have a few other nos black glass and don't wont it to happen to them as well as all nos.Was going to TT them as well but don't no what to do or use now. ^&^
If i don't do something with them now ,they will start to bubble,and i will be not happy. !!!
What other products can i use and i don't wont to spray them and then check 3 month later and find out that i stuffed them all.
If I were you Craig ;
Leave NOS backglasses alone !
I would consider sealing the KISS glass if it looks like flaking.
Lets remember WHY this is happening.. The main reason is that when these machines were operated, they were left on all day, nearly everyday. So the heat from the #44 lamps basically "toasted" the backglass over 20 - 30 years.
Now this was not too bad on EMs, but lethal on some SS. There are other factors such as different printing process and the thickness of the paint - but all glasses were installed in perfect condition.
I ALWAYS use #47 globes in the backbox of any machine. IF you starte to see wear and tear - remove half of the globes - this is what was done "in the old days" to save the glass from deterioration AND to release the strain on the power supply.
There are other products out there. Steve Young used to have a product called "save my glass" (I think it was called that) - and it was the best product to use.
Clay (Marvin's Site) has used TT for years without an issue - I think his suggestion would be to "perfect the process".
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Wonder1s kiss glass has never been installed in a game
and has been kept inside the house
Can you clear coat a backglass ?
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Not sure what to do now as just checked my kiss back glass and has just started to bubble in the middle of the kiss wording.Was a 10/10 now down to 8/10 not happy. ^.^
Weird. Is it in a game?. Do you have it stored somewhere?. Just curious to know if it's in your house, garage, shed etc.
All stored in games room,out of boxes.Temperature in the room stays about the same, as have ducked refrigeate air con,and going by my power bill she never turns it of.So temperature wise i don't think it changes much, and never cleaned with anything and never been on a machine.
I've never had issues with TT. As long as the glass is prepared correctly and you don't spray in hot or cold conditions, I don't see a problem. I NEVER Seal a back glass "for the hell of it" - I ONLY seal them when they are deteriorating to a point where it will get worse over time.
Not sure what to do now as just checked my kiss back glass and has just started to bubble in the middle of the kiss wording.Was a 10/10 now down to 8/10 not happy. ^.^
Have used TT before with no problems but not on a bally repro before.Should i go a head and do it as the bubbling only going to get worse or is there a better product to use.
Even a bigger problem is that i have a few other nos black glass and don't wont it to happen to them as well as all nos.Was going to TT them as well but don't no what to do or use now. ^&^
If i don't do something with them now ,they will start to bubble,and i will be not happy. !!!
What other products can i use and i don't wont to spray them and then check 3 month later and find out that i stuffed them all.
If I were you Craig ;
Leave NOS backglasses alone !
I would consider sealing the KISS glass if it looks like flaking.
Lets remember WHY this is happening.. The main reason is that when these machines were operated, they were left on all day, nearly everyday. So the heat from the #44 lamps basically "toasted" the backglass over 20 - 30 years.
Now this was not too bad on EMs, but lethal on some SS. There are other factors such as different printing process and the thickness of the paint - but all glasses were installed in perfect condition.
I ALWAYS use #47 globes in the backbox of any machine. IF you starte to see wear and tear - remove half of the globes - this is what was done "in the old days" to save the glass from deterioration AND to release the strain on the power supply.
There are other products out there. Steve Young used to have a product called "save my glass" (I think it was called that) - and it was the best product to use.
Clay (Marvin's Site) has used TT for years without an issue - I think his suggestion would be to "perfect the process".
That's my problem, i left the kiss alone and it started to flake and it never been on a machine yet.I don't wont to think of what might happen to the rest i have, that's why i thought i would start to seal them all.
Will be going to the shops and finding out how much to put them all in frames for better safety and storage
Skybeau (Ken) rates Markseal.
Yes seen that, i thought that it would be best used on my nos back glasses, as they have no flaking yet and TT for the ones that are flaking. !@#
All i can say is bugger,bugger,bugger. and HELP
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Wonder1s kiss glass has never been installed in a game
and has been kept inside the house
Can you clear coat a backglass ?
Might have to look into this Morrie, as need to work out what to do asap.Had a look at a couple of game that i have at sister inlaws and got one flaking as well, and she doent even play them. !!!
ps playfield are so much easy to store than blackglasses. !!!
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So just to clarify. The KISS glass is an IPB repro and not an NOS original?.
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So just to clarify. The KISS glass is an IPB repro and not an NOS original?.
Repro
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I've been reading this thread with interest and am in much the same boat as you wonder . I recently got a NOS ( an original NOT a repro ) backglass for my Williams Lucky 7 . I was going to seal it with the Markseal product mentioned earlier . I have actually seen the FirePower backglass that Skybeaux done with Markseal in person and it is VERY , VERY nice . I was going to put all 47 globes in the headbox to cut the heat down etc. but still wouldn't mind sealing the back to protect it from scratches etc. that can happen when you have the glass out of the machine .
After reading this thread though I'm in 2 minds whether to do it or not ... !@#
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I've been reading this thread with interest and am in much the same boat as you wonder . I recently got a NOS ( an original NOT a repro ) backglass for my Williams Lucky 7 . I was going to seal it with the Markseal product mentioned earlier . I have actually seen the FirePower backglass that Skybeaux done with Markseal in person and it is VERY , VERY nice . I was going to put all 47 globes in the headbox to cut the heat down etc. but still wouldn't mind sealing the back to protect it from scratches etc. that can happen when you have the glass out of the machine .
After reading this thread though I'm in 2 minds whether to do it or not ... !@#
Scott,
If that was mine would leave as it is and just run 47s as you suggested
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I've used Triple thick on peeling glasses as I hate it when I remove a glass and see new paint flakes at the bottom of the head box.I guess time will tell but haven't seen any issues yet.I run 47's and always turn machines off when not in use.I have four repro glasses but wouldn't put TT near them(ain't broke don't fix)
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Thats the problem,mines not even been on a game and it started to flake.So far two ways to go
1 use TT on the back glasses that have all ready starting to flake
2 use Markseal product(Cabot's Universal Sanding Sealer I Think) on the NOS ones that are flaking
3 Cover Your Glass Spray looks like its not made any more.
Been reading up on this from here.lots of useful info
http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#bg (http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#bg)
I've used Triple thick on peeling glasses as I hate it when I remove a glass and see new paint flakes at the bottom of the head box.I guess time will tell but haven't seen any issues yet.I run 47's and always turn machines off when not in use.I have four repro glasses but wouldn't put TT near them(ain't broke don't fix)
Good point but it a matter of time before you have to.So do you try and stop it now from happening do you wait, then try and stop it. ^&^
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Now I read this thread @.@
I just sealed my Jacks Open backglass with TT. It was flaking in three spots - two flakes came off when I blew some dust and wood chips off it. Yes it was the red on a Gtb backglass and yes it was where globes are right on top of it so it was probably bound to happen.
I hope I did it right. Two pretty thin coats to start with and I made sure I went to the edges to try to seal them as well. Then I applied two thicker coats over the wear areas where the flakes were sticking up and I tried to get the TT in under them to seal them right up. Only time will tell I spose but for me, it was worth the risk and will have hopefully prolonged it's life. At least now I can touch up the bare areas over the TT with red glass paint and wipe it off if needs be.
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have done TT and clear coat on stuffed glasses ,TT it the EZ way. I have had no problems over 3 years but don't like to hear story's like this , all have been Gottlieb and 1 X travel time...my fingers are crossed and I'm touching wood..., !@#
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Most of my backglasss are sprayed with TT, and i've had no problems at all (touching wood as i write this..lol) Scary thought though after reading this thread, it made me go and check all my glasses for deterioration.. all good so far.
I have glasses that were done about six or seven yrs ago with TT, and some that i did with ordinary auto acrylic clear, even those one still look as good as the day i sealed them.
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I've been reading this thread with interest and am in much the same boat as you wonder . I recently got a NOS ( an original NOT a repro ) backglass for my Williams Lucky 7 . I was going to seal it with the Markseal product mentioned earlier . I have actually seen the FirePower backglass that Skybeaux done with Markseal in person and it is VERY , VERY nice . I was going to put all 47 globes in the headbox to cut the heat down etc. but still wouldn't mind sealing the back to protect it from scratches etc. that can happen when you have the glass out of the machine .
After reading this thread though I'm in 2 minds whether to do it or not ... !@#
Scott NO way would I paint it!