The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: Ant68 on December 15, 2010, 07:53:11 PM
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Next new pin coming will be a pearl-a ,
I'm am 99% sure that it will be made ,It has been done before by Bally , and I think it will sit nice next to my Elvis .
Any ideas <.> <.>
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Rolling Stones
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Rumored a while ago, but I don't think it will happen. Stern SHOULD be targetting a younger crowd, not the aging Rockers.
If it was to be a Music theme, then it should be a more modern band - no older than Bon Jovi or Metallica. Even U2 would be a good choice.
Stern certainly know how to pick some strange themes. Back to the WoF theme..
They did really well with Ironman, Batman, Spiderman and Avatar. All modern movie themes.
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&feature=fvst
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Far out Nino... could have sworn your answer would have been KISS!!!!
Anyway... might not be RS... ANT68 knows..
Hey!!! What about a MOTORHEAD one??? Called "NO SLEEP TILL PINBALL"... could come with a leather jacket just like the album
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Far out Nino... could have sworn your answer would have been KISS!!!!
Anyway... might not be RS... ANT68 knows..
Hey!!! What about a MOTORHEAD one??? Called "NO SLEEP TILL PINBALL"... could come with a leather jacket just like the album
Should NOT be a an "old band". Thats crazy - Not even a KISS machine with modern technology would be relevant. KISS, AC/DC and Rolling Stones may have their own chapter in the Music "Hall of Fame" - But no more music pins unless they are modern bands.
Stern need to "connect" with the younger audience IF they want a music pin.
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I hope its not Rolling Stones. No disrespect to a good band, but who is interested in 70 year old rockers. @.@
How about something edgy and modern like Stargate or Stargate Atlantis. Having the "Wraith Multiball" where you get the life sucked out of u fast if you dont make shots would be way cool. Many great parts of the show to add here.
Are u serious Ant about it being a snnnnnrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rolling stones. !@#
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Stargate???? Does anyone watch that show???
Mind you, im not one to talk. I fell asleep during AVATAR... gee now that really was a snoozefest! ((( ((( (((
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Gav, if u cant find any adult who didnt fall asleep during snnnnrrrrrr Avatar Movie I will be surprised.lol
AND who watches Stargate ? ME, i love it, mostly Stargate Atlantis. For half an hour here and there, u can actually forget you are living in shitty 2010 and dream u are killing aliens in 2200 something.lol
A few hot chicks on Stargate Atlantis too && &&
oh well, back to 2010 snnnnrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. ^^^
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Stargate???? Does anyone watch that show???
Like i've said before stargate atlantis would make a great pin
just look at all that new star gate atlantis ''lego'' thats around right now
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I hope it is not the "Stones" also.
Does it really have to be a licensed theme to sell games these days? !@#
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Does anyone watch Torchwood??? I think that would make a good machine with all the different aliens and devices and things that happen! If you havent seen torchwood look it up, its usualy on abc iview on tuesdays and stays up for 2 weeks. and then think how it could be a pinball, Rift Multiball, avoiding shape shifters, well I am young and a music theme isn't such a good idea because there needs to be a recent band that has great music, okay I like Nickelback but how could you make that a good pinball and what features would they use. Music based machines were good in the 80's-90's but in SS machines NOT a new stern with cool confusing features that dont match the theme, If you understand what I mean ^&^
(I think thats why stern are baseing thier pinnies on tv things because alot more happens on a tv than a stereo!)
I tend to write up an essay everytime I type up somthing and thats not a good habbit to have on the forum (takes to long to post) %.%
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Does anyone watch Torchwood??? I think that would make a good machine with all the different aliens and devices and things that happen! If you havent seen torchwood look it up, its usualy on abc iview on tuesdays and stays up for 2 weeks. and then think how it could be a pinball, Rift Multiball, avoiding shape shifters, well I am young and a music theme isn't such a good idea because there needs to be a recent band that has great music, okay I like Nickelback but how could you make that a good pinball and what features would they use. Music based machines were good in the 80's-90's but in SS machines NOT a new stern with cool confusing features that dont match the theme, If you understand what I mean ^&^
(I think thats why stern are baseing thier pinnies on tv things because alot more happens on a tv than a stereo!)
I tend to write up an essay everytime I type up somthing and thats not a good habbit to have on the forum (takes to long to post) %.%
I love the show torchwood but a new doctor who pin would be a better option.
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i agree,a new dr who with capt.jack,rose,etc sorry mitchell(he has one) the old dr who machine sucks.definately not a f-ing rolling stoneas,who are they again.there is millions of dr.who/torchwood fans. !*! $#$
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Must admit.. new Dr Who pin would be really cool.. too many pics of lame Drs on the old one... all new Drs have been really good.. show is excellent.. i NEVER miss an episode
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I hope its not Rolling Stones. No disrespect to a good band, but who is interested in 70 year old rockers. @.@
How about something edgy and modern like Stargate or Stargate Atlantis. Having the "Wraith Multiball" where you get the life sucked out of u fast if you dont make shots would be way cool. Many great parts of the show to add here.
Are u serious Ant about it being a snnnnnrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rolling stones. !@#
wrath multi ball should be 4 power balls come out of the stargate at once
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I was talking with my wife and kids today and we came up with an idea for a pinball that really ran away with us and in all honesty has so much potential that i think its pure bloody genius!
The theme of this pinball MUST have instant appeal to a wide audience.
It must be able to take pinball out of the "hit A then B and get a video mode" type strategy
It must be interactive
It cannot get boring.. and so game strategy must be able to change.
It must launch pinball into the next generation and advance from the now stagnant DMD mode.
So... what theme could possibly embrace all of this... where would pinball get an instant wide audience whilst appealing to a whole new market?
Where could we get a cashed up 14 million people interested??
The answer??......
WORLD OF WARCRAFT
14 million users pay a subzcription to play this game.. thats AFTER buying the game in the first place.
Get this...
Your WOW pinball can be online via ethernet... you can play against anyone else online.. potential gamers worldwide.
DMD is SCRAPPED $#$ $#$ and flat screen with graphics card installed instead.
As you advance targets you advance your quests.
Add ons can be purchased.
Whilst the PF may remain the same layout... the targets take on different values dependant on game quests.
each time you start up your pinball you carry on from where you left off.
You can play on PC and upload to pinball to continue a game.
In essence you pinball becomes a PC with a playfield.. it is NEVER a static game.. it ALWAYS evolves.. you exchange keyboard keys for targets or sequences on a pinball PF..
... But basically.. you play World Of Warcraft... the game is HUGE WORLDWIDE... its a game.. so pinball will have an instant attraction to these people who till now are not your typical pinball customer.
Imagine WOW on site??... all it would take would be internet access.
far out, strewth guvnor... this idea is a friggin pearler!
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That is a great idea, get people out of their homes to play a real game.
Reminds me of one of the funniest South Park episodes called 'make love not warcraft', check out about 1.30 in, the guys are playing WoW for days on end non stop, slothing in front of the computers, when cartman has some special power and cant leave to take a shit, "thats a big boy isn't he" *)* GOLD!
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the whole WOW idea could get somewhere but the lcd flatpanel may take a few experimentsor may not fit in a budjet although would still proberly (once mastered) turn out to cost the same as trying to turn a computer program into running on a DMD because of the curcit boards and programming (please tell me if i'm wrong) i have been thinking about lcd's for a while but there must be a reason why they havent made one yet, im sure stern has thought about it, its just why havent they done something yet?
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the whole WOW idea could get somewhere but the lcd flatpanel may take a few experimentsor may not fit in a budjet although would still proberly (once mastered) turn out to cost the same as trying to turn a computer program into running on a DMD because of the curcit boards and programming (please tell me if i'm wrong) i have been thinking about lcd's for a while but there must be a reason why they havent made one yet, im sure stern has thought about it, its just why havent they done something yet?
Stern dont really DO anything... they have copied the industry leaders from day 1 its been almost an unofficial Stern business strategy.
Now they are the industry leaders and we all look to them to actually do something innovative..... problem is that they just dont have it in them.
The only innovations Stern have made are cost cutting exercises like digital print ( and not high res print either.. even the graphics package is budget) playfields, plastic aprons and the such.
We all know where Stern should be going and its away from the usual recipe.... couple of pop bumpers top right, few toys in the middle that wobble ( is that now animation?) crappy print centre PF.. shove everything up the back... Stern wont go there though.
Flat panel expensive?? Not really, i have one on my phone and i bought that as prepaid for $60
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I hope its not Rolling Stones. No disrespect to a good band, but who is interested in 70 year old rockers. @.@
How about something edgy and modern like Stargate or Stargate Atlantis. Having the "Wraith Multiball" where you get the life sucked out of u fast if you dont make shots would be way cool. Many great parts of the show to add here.
Are u serious Ant about it being a snnnnnrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rolling stones. !@#
wrath multi ball should be 4 power balls come out of the stargate at once
STARGATE ATLANTIS. what a excellent show. bit pissed it got axed for the crap Stargate Snoozefest Universe. But Wraith anything on a pinball would be way way cool.
BRING BACK STAR TREK TV SERIES. (we had Next Gen, then Voyager, then Enterprise, mmmmmmm what is next ?
Bring back something Stargate Atlantis or something new and action packed like it was.
What about something like a ALIENS series with the original ALIENS theme but a new twist with all different worlds with all different Alien/Monster shows.
Channel 125 and 165 on Austar. Ohhh YEhhhhhhh. lol ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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looks like a stones pinball is rolling in 2011!!
see PGJ link..
http://www.pingamejournal.com/current/
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When u read what they are doing with a whack of Batman pinballs that they are sending around the country (USA) and putting in CostCo Stores, they say the words mentioned below > quote
"If the test is successful, Stern will further simplify the game design for tested market segments, such redesign including a much more simplified cabinet, replacement of the current dot matrix score display, and so forth".
I think STERN is insane. What are they thinking ? They are heading in the total wrong direction. People want excitement, features, neat tricks n toys, a pinball that is fun.
It seems STERN has decided "lets have a competition, lets build the cheapest, nastyess pinball in the world, lets make it the most blue n white, basic thing we can".
You increase profits by being great at something, not by cost cutting these machines to death. I read a article with photos, where Gary Stern said to a room of pinball/trade people in the USA, "that we have made some changes to our 2010 lineup, and some of the changes you are not going to like".
These words are something a Business owner should never say to his customers. I then felt that the clock of death was clicking faster with STERN.
Now a pinball for 70 yr old rockers ? How can they get it sooooo wrong ? !@#
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It seems Stern (in various guises - old Stern, DE) were never innovators, just imitators. And with nothing left to copy, they have no direction. Stern copied the Bally board set originally, then copied the Williams System 11 for DE. I can't think of a game in any of their incarnations where they came up with something truly new.
Perhaps with nothing to copy, they are struggling with direction?
GS has said recently that there is not room for two pinball companies in the world now, and another company would likely see Stern fail. Sounds to me like a guy in fear. Maybe they do need another pinball manufacturer, so they can copy their inventions!!
Feel free to debate.
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Discuss?? Couldnt agree more.. have said it many times myself
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looks like a stones pinball is rolling in 2011!!
see PGJ link..
http://www.pingamejournal.com/current/
Another Stones pinny, how boring....
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It seems Stern (in various guises - old Stern, DE) were never innovators, just imitators. And with nothing left to copy, they have no direction. Stern copied the Bally board set originally, then copied the Williams System 11 for DE. I can't think of a game in any of their incarnations where they came up with something truly new.
Perhaps with nothing to copy, they are struggling with direction?
GS has said recently that there is not room for two pinball companies in the world now, and another company would likely see Stern fail. Sounds to me like a guy in fear. Maybe they do need another pinball manufacturer, so they can copy their inventions!!
Feel free to debate.
Totally agree with that, boards a direct copy, some mechs, a lot of games were copies of WMS games with a different theme. They obviously had insiders helping them out, as some of their games would have been on the production line only a few months behind. Was discussed by a few designers on the Topcasts
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There is something i cant seem to get a handle on, that is, after all the other pinball companies shut, there would be many of dozens, if not a hundred or two hundred great pinball brains in the USA, from design and marketing, to software and engineering, floating around, looking for work, or if they had taken up jobs in other industries, they might be available at least on a consultant basis.
Surely, STERN could organise just a few of the great brains to get together and come up with something ABSOLUTELY GREAT for pinball in 2011.
Given that the ROLLING STONES is a UK band, and not even American (which does mean alot in the USA, one would wonder why a pommy band ?, and one that has past its prime 20 or 30 yrs ago).
WHO SAYS u have to have a "licenced brand" or "licenced name" to make a pinball ? Why cant they copy any of the greatest sellers of all times, and change just a few things, change the title, do something. Even remake any of the Data East or previous STERN titles, even under the same name, anything fresh n new without coming up with lame titles. HAS ANYONE got any info on who or how STERN comes up with its next titles ?
Has anyone seen a chocolate wheel in Garys office, with a batch of bad ideas all over it, and if u spin the wheel, and it lands on something exciting, u just spin the wheel again ? Is that how the marketing dept works over there ?
It would be good if Gary Stern got on here and kicked my butt and came up with 10 reasons why i am wrong, and spoke of a new batch of exciting pins for 2011, but it will take a pinball machine with more than 1 x ramp, 1 x pop bumper, and a few flashing lights to do it. Lets all hope the next Stern release is better than the rolling stones.
Is anyone here considering buying a Rolling Stones pinny ? !@#
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Hopefully Rolling Stones isn't to Stern what Flipper Football was to Capcom. Hopefully for the sake of pinball they have made the right decision.
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It is an odd title to choose, but im used to Stern putting out machines that miss the market by a mile. Im a big fan of the stones... Let It Bleed is one of my favourite albums of all time. I must admit, im hoping this title is done well by Stern but i doubt it very much. It doesnt matter if RS are a UK band or USA band... i think youll find no one really gives a toss where music comes from so long as its good. Of all the coutries ive been to Australia has me scratching my head as it does label this band from here and that from there. For instance, i saw ACDC back in 1980 and it wasnt till i came to this country in 95 that i found out that they were an Aussie band.. no one had ever bothered to tell me before cos it didnt matter.. they were just a great rock band.
Anyway.. im actually looking forward to the release of this title, i reckon it will hold value very well later down the track just as the Bally version does.
Stones fans will be all over this just as Elvis fans were for the Elvis release... try scoring one of these for a bargain price... youll be bloody lucky!
I think the title holds a lot of potential and could be done very risque and tongue in cheek.
Id be a lot happier though if everything didnt wobble on a Stern title... wobbly stand up figurines just dont so it for me.
I can hear the attract tune for this game now though... opening riff to "satisfaction"..... bring it on!
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I would love to see a new dr who pin. I like the first dr who pin but I think it could have had a few more features and add the cybermen and k-9 as well.
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How come Stern never copied the Pinball 2000 concept? Or at least tried another concept to make DMD pins look old-fashioned.
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How come Stern never copied the Pinball 2000 concept? Or at least tried another concept to make DMD pins look old-fashioned.
Patent belongs to WMS (was down here, now possibly with Bay Area Amusements) for "projection of holographic image into playfield" so that rules out a P2K clone.
As for something else innovative - remember this is Stern - monkey see monkey do. Innovation = Zerol
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Yawn..., Dr who ok, rolling stones nope gotta be something better, I think it's time he lets his son in charge, oh or hasn't he got one, he is no good at making desisions and i don't believe this is a first. maybe someone else needs to takeover?
How come Stern never copied the Pinball 2000 concept? Or at least tried another concept to make DMD pins look old-fashioned.
Patent belongs to WMS (was down here, now possibly with Bay Area Amusements) for "projection of holographic image into playfield" so that rules out a P2K clone.
As for something else innovative - remember this is Stern - monkey see monkey do. Innovation = Zerol
Monkey see Monkey do allright!
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Stern have released a picture of part of the playfield.
looks flash but doesnt do much.
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/necroscope2008/rollingstone.jpg)
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more pics
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I just found some more pics on this forum
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?s=de08c986c12e9261bd41fc1c8e59175e&showtopic=11885&pid=96622&st=0&
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man that looks shit!
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man that looks shit!
+1
Absolute rubbish. Stern will never learn - photos look CRAP on playfields and there is simply too much blue on the playfield. I assume the Jagger target is like BBH - so it will be prone to the exact issues.
Seriously - after GREAT machines like Spiderman and Ironman, they have dropped the ball again. all the pictures I've seen so far are a real disappointment.
Bring on Wizard of Oz, this Stern is a lemon.
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to me this looks like it was made by a 12yo stones fan
it makes WoF look good
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Could you imagine a playfield with this theme
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4502/avpu.jpg)
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Sad day for pinball, that's all I can say
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Could you imagine a playfield with this theme
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4502/avpu.jpg)
hell yes, alien v predator pinball. awesome ! ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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Alien VS Predator - Now that is an awesome theme to follow Avatar.
Harry Potter, Transformers - others that SHOULD have been done - But hang on - They need to be themes from the 60's according to Stern !
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Just what I always wanted for my games room - a game with a plastic representation of some 60 something year old guys red lips and tongue.. .. I'm going to have f**king nightmares now.
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That looks so shit, what are Stern doing @.@
Liked these comments:
Finally a Jenna Jameson themed pin! :-)
Wow 2 ramps *)*
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Yeah, well I'm in the 50-60 age bracket.
I was brought up on the Stones, I'm easily seduced by lots of colours, flashing lights, sounds, music and the whole frenetic pinball gamut . . . .
BUT
IMHO This effort looks about as attractive as a prolapsed vagina.
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IMHO This effort looks about as attractive as a prolapsed vagina.
No idea what a "prolapsed vagina" is and too afraid to google it, but sh*t that was funny anyway!!
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found some more pics of cabinet
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Its not as bad as some say.
It is very ROLLING STONES recognisable so I actually dont mind it. It is very colourful and modern.
* If the music on this pinball is great when cranked up, it might just sell real well and surprise everyone. BUT wait to the LE version, which will be a secret for the first 6 months til sales slow down, then the LE better version may hit the charts.lol
I think the machine looks ok ! !@#
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Theres just no "impact" on this game... it doesnt draw me in to make me want to drop a coin or two. This theme was slammed from the start... i thought it could have been done well and maybe a real classic.... but wheres the "classic"? Its just a big ugly box that flips a ball.... its just so..... bloody ordinary
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This pin just looks so tacky,maybe the gameplay will make up for it but that remains to be seen,i posted how tacky it looks on sterns forum and it took them about eight hours to delete my post and the topic. *)*
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This pin just looks so tacky,maybe the gameplay will make up for it but that remains to be seen,i posted how tacky it looks on sterns forum and it took them about eight hours to delete my post and the topic. *)*
They are only interested in feedback from geriatric pinball players, so opinions from younger collectors and players is ignored !
The only way Stern will learn is when operators complain about the empty cashboxes.
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I didnt think any operators had seen a full cashbox in a pinball machine since the early 90's.
They certainly wont see any full ones with the Rolling Stones unless it is put in a english pub whilst a tour buss of 70 yr old blue rinse geryatrics stops for soup at lunch.lol
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This pin just looks so tacky,maybe the gameplay will make up for it but that remains to be seen,i posted how tacky it looks on sterns forum and it took them about eight hours to delete my post and the topic. *)*
They are only interested in feedback from geriatric pinball players, so opinions from younger collectors and players is ignored !
The only way Stern will learn is when operators complain about the empty cashboxes.
I didnt think any operators had seen a full cashbox in a pinball machine since the early 90's.
They certainly wont see any full ones with the Rolling Stones unless it is put in a english pub whilst a tour buss of 70 yr old blue rinse geryatrics stops for soup at lunch.lol
I think it doesnt look like a bad machine but because they are the only big company they are taking advantage of it and going backwards! It just doesnt fit with all the others they have done since they started again in 2001
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(((
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LOL- Digital print Mick moving across the PF is so cheesy!
And whoever is playing that machine plays like crap
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LOL- Digital print Mick moving across the PF is so cheesy!
And whoever is playing that machine plays like crap
So looks like it has 1 feature toy ,2 ramps don't know about magnets ?
You could add to this , a couple of extra interactive toys and a new theme and your there .
I can also bet that the next Stern will step up to mark ( or will get better anyway) might have been too late for the RD to do any changes on this one .
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I don't know how many different tunes, but I think you will get sick of them all pretty quickly.
Would drive me ^.^
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One ramp shot (or the player is a one trick pony) and an annoying Mick Jagger plastic. Even though it is a proto, not much will change for the production model.
Sad times ahead if Stern thinks this pinball will be a winner.
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Yeah, the photo prints look pathetic & really, really bad as well. :lol
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Oh dear, that "Drac Track" MB copy MJ is going to make for an easily warped and worn playfield - and in the meantime providing one of the most annoying looking toys in decades.
Good one Monkey Boys!
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I'm not sure if I would play it if it payed me! It looks so boring, There arn't any modes and the music seemed like it would get annoying, Ok for fans but not pinball players! *.*
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This machine seems to be copping a rightly deserved bashing on most of the pinball forums around the world,I'm wondering if stern will pull the plug on this one or are they blind to widespread opinion,usually it's just your typical stern haters bagging new sterns but i am yet to read any positive comments even from the most loyal of stern fans. !@#
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If I was given this machine for free, first thing I would do would be to swap the Mick Jagger moving playfield toy for a buck from a Big Buck Hunter.
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This machine seems to be copping a rightly deserved bashing on most of the pinball forums around the world,I'm wondering if stern will pull the plug on this one or are they blind to widespread opinion,usually it's just your typical stern haters bagging new sterns but i am yet to read any positive comments even from the most loyal of stern fans. !@#
Well if they are actively censoring opinions on their own forums, then I'd say that they don't care what the hobbyists and collectors think. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts from Operators who have sited test games. Watching this thread progress, there is not much support for this title, which is disappointing considering the accolades Ironman earned. Avatar had positive reviews, and there were NO negative opinions as it went through its proto stage. Personally, I was so impressed with Ironman, that I considered purchasing it.
If I was given this machine for free, first thing I would do would be to swap the Mick Jagger moving playfield toy for a buck from a Big Buck Hunter.
I guess the first spare part for RS will be a breakable plastics set !
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More pics small write up and a couple of vids here:
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/rollingstones/index3.html (http://www.pinballnews.com/games/rollingstones/index3.html)
a couple of extra pics:
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/rollingstones/index2.html (http://www.pinballnews.com/games/rollingstones/index2.html)
Still ((( ...
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On the www.cointaker.com website, under STERN pinballs for sale, I came accross a price3 for a std Rolling Stones and a LE Rolling Stones. Interesting.
ROLLING STONES - NIB
BRAND NEW STERN ROLLING STONES - NIB INCLUDE SHIPPING CHARGES, USA. Call for cash Discount. FREE LED Super Kit w Game Purchase!!!!!
Price : $4,699.00
ROLLING STONES Limited Edition - NIB
BRAND NEW STERN ROLLING STONES LIMITED EDITION - NIB INCLUDE SHIPPING CHARGES, USA. Call for cash Discount. Mirrored BG, Chrome, New Rule set, ect...
Price : $5,799.00
So, a LE version already ! ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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is it just me or does the moving Mick target look like its in the 'taking a dump' position? !@#
I mean look at the way his legs are
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i dont mind the machine.. any new machine is a good machine in my mind ^^^
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is it just me or does the moving Mick target look like its in the 'taking a dump' position? !@#
I mean look at the way his legs are
%.% %.% %.% %.% %.% %.%
judging from the look on his face, i'd say he's a bit constipated, with the screws thru his crotch and all :lol :lol
I agree with others the photos on the pf look a bit ordinary, aside from that it doesnt look all that bad. having said that i was never really a big Rolling Stones fan so i wont be looking to own one anytime soon *.* *.*
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LOL- Digital print Mick moving across the PF is so cheesy!
And whoever is playing that machine plays like crap
So looks like it has 1 feature toy ,2 ramps don't know about magnets ?
You could add to this , a couple of extra interactive toys and a new theme and your there .
I can also bet that the next Stern will step up to mark ( or will get better anyway) might have been too late for the RD to do any changes on this one .
does this mean your not buying one??
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FYI
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I said it would be big in the UK (afterall, if u couldnt sell them there, u might as well just committ suicide)
and that the "start me up" music would be the go on the machine (they had bloody better have used this with the audio ?)
but alas, the playfield wear from the moving Mick Jagger taking a dump, and the slot cut into the playfield will need a ten inch cliffy sooner than later (Stern may have shares in Cliffys business in the USA too.lol)
Hope it sells !@# My pommy neighbour might seriously buy it, he is a BIG Stones fan ! !@# !@#
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That PF is in nearly 2 piece , I wonder if they have supported it from underneath some how ? wouldn't it be as flimsy as ? !@#