The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: Caveoftreasures on May 04, 2012, 02:40:37 AM
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A few people who have purchased the new AC/DC LE machines have had some faults. I wanted to ask anyone who has had a issue to add their experiences here, AND add any info about whether you were offered a precheck on your machine or not ?
It seems the problem is that these machines are NOT getting the standard free precheck done by AMD, and I am not sure its AMD's fault at all if the precheck is offered to the buyer by AMD or its other Stern dealers in Australia, and the buyer doesnt take up the offer. I didnt take up mine, but I was too excited to get my machine. I know better for next time but.
I think it is important for people to remember these machines come from the other side of the world and have the shit shaken out of them in transport, plus the fact that humans on a production line make mistakes. BUT the precheck done by AMD in Australia should/usually fixes ALL these issues IF the precheck is done.
I was offered twice by AMD when I bought my AC/DC Pro the precheck. They explained the precheck is where the machine is taken fully out of box, fully checked over, fully tested etc, any issues fixed and machine put back in box. I didnt go for the free precheck, and my machine was perfect. However, if I didnt go for the precheck, and if I had a problem, I was advised by Bruce that he would work with me no matter what, but he basically offered me the precheck and made it clear it was very important, just like a precheck on a new car.
It doesnt matter who is right and who is wrong here, but the precheck it seems overcomes all these issues and to my knowledge, is offered to everyone to overcome ALL issues. Its goes without saying, if u buy any brand new machine from anyone, and u are offered a precheck, definately take it up. The next time I buy a brand new machine I will be taking the precheck no matter what. This is something that everyone can learn from.
I have definately learnt to say YES nextime. To my understanding, all buyers are offered the precheck by AMD.
There is no use bagging Stern, all technologies and humans have failures. Warranty's are offered world wide on all products because the reality is humans and products arent perfect. We all know that. Thats why I am very interested if everyone else was offered the same precheck I was offered.
If you bought a AC/DC machine, were u offered a precheck. !@#
* This is important feedback for AMD if you were not and may help others in the future with brand new in box purchases.
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I have bought 3 games from the AMD dealer in Melboutne and nevrr been offered a precheck
But i have had no issues with my games
From what i understsng, bally/williams game needed a week in the shop befote thry could be put on location
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There is no use bagging Stern, all technologies and humans have failures. Warranty's are offered world wide on all products because the reality is humans and products arent perfect
???WTF???
All we have heard right from the start about this title is that it is going to be this,, that etc. Ive been bagged on this site for suggesting that STERN dont make the best quality machines. So i shut up as i was seen as being negative.
I KNOW you want this machine to be absolutely perfect in every way, but the reality is that it isnt and it is directly down to STERN. Balls getting stuck and modifications having to be made... optos dropping out etc
Cavey.. wake up pal and stop glossing over the cracks... its a well designed game.. no doubt about this.... it looks good to most people.. no argument there. But Stern just are not quite up to the task... for chrissakes you cant even do board repairs on this game - what happens when Stern stop making CPU boards for this machine?? Do you just part it out?
Stern KNOW that the biggest market they have for these machines is the home market, and yet they dont make the machine collector friendly.. its a friggin joke!
There is only ONE warranty that ANY company should have to make, and that is component fault. For this you can expect a 2% failure due to natural variations in the manufacture of components..... all my suppliers tell me this.
You should NEVER have to give warranty on faulty assembly and ill thought out production. That should be addressed before the customer receives the goods.
Far out... if i buy a TV, i expect it to work when i get it home... not have to make alterations to make it " Fit for purpose". If i buy a $10K machine i expect it to work, make tea etc.
Sterns motto shouyd be;
STERN - WE ALMOST GET IT RIGHT
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No pre check was done on my BIBLE as I wanted the machine as is. Every thing apart from one minor scratch shown on other post was perfect.
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I had no pre check done either by the way aren't the board components on my WH20 soldered direct to the board ? What's the difference?
Peter
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i opted for no Pre-check on the BIB, checked all plugs and
connectors upon set up, plays sweet with only one issue..
blue LED in the slingshot failed after 290 games, fortunatley
it was the wedge type and not one of their LED boards
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I had no pre check done either by the way aren't the board components on my WH20 soldered direct to the board ? What's the difference?
Peter
WH20 is through hole mounted... larger components whose legs go through the PCB and then soldered. With some skill, anyone can fix these so long as components are still manufactured.. solder sucker, soldering iron, component and away you go.
ACDC is Surface mount component... very small components that are float soldered on. It is very difficult for anyone to repair this.. the legs on the components are so small its a real issue to see what you are doing. Most people wont have float solder capabilities and testing these tiny components is also extremely difficult. A surface mount board is pretty much a throw away item that gets replaced. No problem so long as the boards are still being made.
Mike Homepin DELIBERATELY makes all his boards as through hole so they can be repaired... it would be cheaper for him to supply surface mount... but this is pinball and 90% of us can fix our own games. Mike understands and recognises this and so supplies a product to his market.
Stern who are now targetting the home pinball enthusiast market have not taken this into account.
We all know from experience that transistors fail/ burn out due to a stuck switch etc. What happens when the warranty runs out ( how long is this?? 3 months... 6 months.. a year?) and a transistor blows taking out its driver chip also?.. Most people will have to buy a whole new board... like i say, no real issue so long as the boards are available, but if i was an ACDC owner it would be something that i would want to address so i can keep my game running 10 years plus
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I posted this in Damien's thread, but it relates to the warranty issues ;
Unfortunately this is proof the games were rushed out of the factory before being properly tested. I don't think anyone bothers with the "Supplier Pre Check" for three reasons ;
1 - They have paid for the NIB "experience"
2 - Game might be damaged at Dealers (accidental)
3 - The owners reporting issues are home users. Pre Check or "burn in" was done before operators sited them.
Each owner with a problem should politely contact the dealer they bought it from as this data is collated to Stern and they then release bulletins if the fault was a issue on the production line or a part is fatigued too early in it lifetime. Stern can't simulate 100 games on each NIB game, but they need to know if there is a trend with faults occurring. What we should also remember is THIS title was always going to be a big seller into the home market. These faults would have been picked up by operators and reported. So they would be losing income with the machines off site. Reporting the issues immediately is the best course of action.
I want to elaborate on the pre check. That is mainly for machines delivered to operators. Irrespective if you want to take out the pre check or not, a rushed production of a title with numerous faults may or may not have been detected. A scratch on a decal to an operator means NOTHING. We all saw the idiot operator screw in a flag to an AC / DC head. They don't care about cosmetic issues (operators). I doubt if a dealer would highlight this as ANY delay would mean they would lose income. Most of these new games won't even be cleaned for the first time until 2014. If a fault occurs, there's a delay on delivery. So instead of OWNERS finding issues, the Dealers would find them, and then would be waiting on a fix. So instead of reporting NIB issues, we would have the same number of complaints - the difference being owners would be complaining about "delays" rather than "faults".
Brett's comment - "I think it is important for people to remember these machines come from the other side of the world and have the shit shaken out of them in transport"
I disagree. I've pulled 20 year old games out of a container, plugged them in and they worked perfectly straight away. This is without foam and cardboard packaging.
Don't fall into the trap of believing a "pre check" would have miraculously reduced the number of reported faults. The faults are still there. The problem lies in the production line. Whether that be poor workmanship or short cuts. Stern needs to address this issue. The only way WE can help Stern is to notify them via the dealers.
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This whole fiasco is starting to turn me off any future Stern releases.
I would hate to shell out that type of coin and have problems from day one, it could even turn me off the hobby altogether.
I really hope that all problems are sorted out asap and you guys can enjoy your machines instead of worrying about problems and warrnaty etc.
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I had a problem with a playfield on a New stern,got in touch with patrick powers @ stern sent him a heap of pictures and within a few months i had a new playfield waiting for me at the dealers,then the dealer wants to charge me freight on the playfield ^.^ So i ask patrick about this and he said that wasnt right and he would sort it out which he did.,Stern are only too happy to sort it out if you have a problem with a machine.
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This whole fiasco is starting to turn me off any future Stern releases.
I would hate to shell out that type of coin and have problems from day one, it could even turn me off the hobby altogether.
I really hope that all problems are sorted out asap and you guys can enjoy your machines instead of worrying about problems and warrnaty etc.
Daz - I think you will find that the warranty claims are probably on par with all Stern's releases. The difference is that this game has predominantly gone into the home market. There are more collectors owners than games onsite. Some of the claims like scratches etc are ignored by operators. Collectors are more fussy and demand quality without any blemishes.
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This whole fiasco is starting to turn me off any future Stern releases.
I would hate to shell out that type of coin and have problems from day one, it could even turn me off the hobby altogether.
I really hope that all problems are sorted out asap and you guys can enjoy your machines instead of worrying about problems and warrnaty etc.
I agree with this it is a worry and it makes you scared to turn your game on just in case something goes wrong-I've been lucky and the game plays great, but what you guys are saying about the boards is scary is this sterns 1st game with these boards? and I wonder what a new board would cost?
Peter
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I had a problem with a playfield on a New stern,got in touch with patrick powers @ stern sent him a heap of pictures and within a few months i had a new playfield waiting for me at the dealers,then the dealer wants to charge me freight on the playfield ^.^ So i ask patrick about this and he said that wasnt right and he would sort it out which he did.,Stern are only too happy to sort it out if you have a problem with a machine.
I emailed patrick a year or so ago when I had my spiderman. My sm did not have the connectors in the cab to get a shaker motor kit hooked up.
He was very helpfull, came across as a very nice guy with a passion for pinball and a passion to help and he went out of his way to help me even though I bought my game 2nd hand and not from a stern dealer.
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This whole fiasco is starting to turn me off any future Stern releases.
I would hate to shell out that type of coin and have problems from day one, it could even turn me off the hobby altogether.
I really hope that all problems are sorted out asap and you guys can enjoy your machines instead of worrying about problems and warrnaty etc.
Daz - I think you will find that the warranty claims are probably on par with all Stern's releases. The difference is that this game has predominantly gone into the home market. There are more collectors owners than games onsite. Some of the claims like scratches etc are ignored by operators. Collectors are more fussy and demand quality without any blemishes.
Yeah that makes sense mate. Little imperfections don't bother me too much( my im has a couple) but I can understand that they would bother some people.
I have heard( dunno if it is true or not) that stern has always been a bit lazy on quality control and I was hopefull that things were on the improve with so much interest in this title.
I would love another NIB.
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I had a problem with a playfield on a New stern,got in touch with patrick powers @ stern sent him a heap of pictures and within a few months i had a new playfield waiting for me at the dealers,then the dealer wants to charge me freight on the playfield ^.^ So i ask patrick about this and he said that wasnt right and he would sort it out which he did.,Stern are only too happy to sort it out if you have a problem with a machine.
hi Ben
as the dealer here , we only asked for the funds we had been charged for the shipping by stern as we never thought it was fair that we should have been charged at all for warranty parts ( mind you we never even got told the playfield was coming by stern ) stern should send these out for free and also cover the postage costs , which in the end they did and all worked out for everyone $#$, the freight was explained from stern and there was no charge to you or us $#$
as for the recent AC/DC , we have already replaced one motor , fixed 2 bells and still have some that haven't been unpacked
thanks
mark
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If people are paying $9 grand for a game it would want to be perfect imo. thats a shit load of money, and as stern target the home industry not siting pins, which is more than likely the reason for the price tag, then the pin should be perfect and their warrenty should be 100%.
also to the member who had stern send you a playfield for their mistake and poor quality??? thats pretty piss poor mate on their behalf.
its like you tv breaking and they just send you the replacement part and not having the dealer not fix it and leaving it upto you.
thats not even f**ken legal
the supplier for stern has a responsibility for what they sell, no matter where this product comes from they sell it they need to sort out warrenty.
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If people are paying $9 grand for a game it would want to be perfect imo. thats a shit load of money, and as stern target the home industry not siting pins, which is more than likely the reason for the price tag, then the pin should be perfect and their warrenty should be 100%.
also to the member who had stern send you a playfield for their mistake and poor quality??? thats pretty piss poor mate on their behalf.
its like you tv breaking and they just send you the replacement part and not having the dealer not fix it and leaving it upto you.
thats not even f**ken legal
the supplier for stern has a responsibility for what they sell, no matter where this product comes from they sell it they need to sort out warrenty.
I contacted stern directly and never bothered the dealer as it was a cosmetic issue and nothing the dealer could have fixed,and i am happy with sterns products and service and will buy another NIB down the track i was thinking about acdc but i dont listen too music anymore and i grew up with those songs and have heard them a million times,so i am planning on getting a marvel pin in the future if they make another.
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
this isnt a secondhand item, or did you willingly buy a scratch and dent version at a discount???
how long do you expect jbhifi to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem on a product from them? how long would you expect a car dealer to get back to you bought a brand new car and it was beat up?? straight away, its their obligation and its no different.
and if they dont let every person you know that they dont warrent the product they sell, and at the same time report them to fair trade.
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I had a problem with a playfield on a New stern,got in touch with patrick powers @ stern sent him a heap of pictures and within a few months i had a new playfield waiting for me at the dealers,then the dealer wants to charge me freight on the playfield ^.^ So i ask patrick about this and he said that wasnt right and he would sort it out which he did.,Stern are only too happy to sort it out if you have a problem with a machine.
hi Ben
as the dealer here , we only asked for the funds we had been charged for the shipping by stern as we never thought it was fair that we should have been charged at all for warranty parts ( mind you we never even got told the playfield was coming by stern ) stern should send these out for free and also cover the postage costs , which in the end they did and all worked out for everyone $#$, the freight was explained from stern and there was no charge to you or us $#$
as for the recent AC/DC , we have already replaced one motor , fixed 2 bells and still have some that haven't been unpacked
thanks
mark
Hey mark thanks for the explanation,glad it worked out ok,if you guys had to pay for the freight there would have been no profit in selling the machine,i never contacted you guys over it because there was not much you could of done about it as it was a cosmetic issue so i took it up with stern.
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
this isnt a secondhand item, or did you willingly buy a scratch and dent version at a discount???
how long do you expect jbhifi to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem on a product from them? how long would you expect a car dealer to get back to you bought a brand new car and it was beat up?? straight away, its their obligation and its no different.
and if they dont let every person you know that they dont warrent the product they sell, and at the same time report them to fair trade.
So with a scratched backglass do you approach the dealer or Stern? It's only very small but was done when screen printed as the white light reflective stuff has been applied over the mark, I haven't mentioned it on the forum as didn't want to make a big deal but an getting a little frustrated, my dealer has been great and has approached Stern and is waiting on a reply but how long do you wait..I suppose stern are busy with bigger issues so I'll be patient as my game plays great and there's others with far bigger problems than me.
Peter
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
this isnt a secondhand item, or did you willingly buy a scratch and dent version at a discount???
how long do you expect jbhifi to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem on a product from them? how long would you expect a car dealer to get back to you bought a brand new car and it was beat up?? straight away, its their obligation and its no different.
and if they dont let every person you know that they dont warrent the product they sell, and at the same time report them to fair trade.
So with a scratched backglass do you approach the dealer or stern? Its only very small but was done when screen printed as the white light reflective stuff has been applied over the mark, I haven't mentioned it on the forum as didn't want to make a big deal but an getting a little frustrated but my dealer has approached Stern and is waiting on a reply but how long do you wait..
Peter
altimately i would tel lthe dealer, keep in contact with them and they hassle them to deal with stern. its their job not yours, they sell stern products and its in their best interest to be a good stern dealer. if they fail its not worth buying from them, plus if stern is at fault stern might pick up their game if all these dealers that make them good money are getting pissed off with their service and product. your dealer should have more leverage than you would when talking to stern, esp if that dealer sells allot of machines.
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
this isnt a secondhand item, or did you willingly buy a scratch and dent version at a discount???
how long do you expect jbhifi to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem on a product from them? how long would you expect a car dealer to get back to you bought a brand new car and it was beat up?? straight away, its their obligation and its no different.
and if they dont let every person you know that they dont warrent the product they sell, and at the same time report them to fair trade.
So with a scratched backglass do you approach the dealer or stern? Its only very small but was done when screen printed as the white light reflective stuff has been applied over the mark, I haven't mentioned it on the forum as didn't want to make a big deal but an getting a little frustrated but my dealer has approached Stern and is waiting on a reply but how long do you wait..
Peter
It took 3 weeks for patrick to get the playfield replacement approved and that was in a quiet period.
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How long should it take for a dealer to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem?
Peter
this isnt a secondhand item, or did you willingly buy a scratch and dent version at a discount???
how long do you expect jbhifi to get back to you if you have a cosmetic problem on a product from them? how long would you expect a car dealer to get back to you bought a brand new car and it was beat up?? straight away, its their obligation and its no different.
and if they dont let every person you know that they dont warrent the product they sell, and at the same time report them to fair trade.
So with a scratched backglass do you approach the dealer or stern? Its only very small but was done when screen printed as the white light reflective stuff has been applied over the mark, I haven't mentioned it on the forum as didn't want to make a big deal but an getting a little frustrated but my dealer has approached Stern and is waiting on a reply but how long do you wait..
Peter
It took 3 weeks for patrick to get the playfield replacement approved and that was in a quiet period.
i wont be buying a stern game anytime soon, it seems to me its safer buying a secondhand machine from some one who has already gone through this crap and got it upto standard lol.
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Any progress with your issues Dave & Steve?
So guys, in a few years time, there's going to be Stern pinnies thrown out for hard rubbish collection on the nature strip.....i'll make sure NOT to collect them LOL
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Anyone buying a NIB wants to be the first to open. There are the risks that the person unpacking will damage/scratch the machine at setup as its NOT their own. I unbox new pins as part of my job and I can tell you that a lot have faults and not all due to transport. My 2 were a good example of this. I cant blame the distributors for this.
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Any progress with your issues Dave & Steve?
So guys, in a few years time, there's going to be Stern pinnies thrown out for hard rubbish collection on the nature strip.....i'll make sure NOT to collect them LOL
Will let you know soon,had more issues pop up.
Not many people are able or have the equipment to repair surface mount boards. Looks like in most cases that replacement will be the only or cheapest way to repair, we can only hope that these board sets will be around for a long time. Might be better off buying EM's.
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Anyone buying a NIB wants to be the first to open. There are the risks that the person unpacking will damage/scratch the machine at setup as its NOT their own. I unbox new pins as part of my job and I can tell you that a lot have faults and not all due to transport. My 2 were a good example of this. I cant blame the distributors for this.
My NIB lotr-le had a fault when it was first opened,took the psp guys a while to figure it out on the phone but it turned out to be a bent pin on the main connector which stopped it from starting a game been going strong ever since,would i buy another NIB hell yeah.
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Can someone post a pic of the boards to the forum? Id like to think that at least the transistors would still be through hole, plus any switching diodes etc. It would make sense to have the most common failed components as home fixer friendly
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Its good to see all the different attitudes and experiences people have had, it all helps others in the future.
One point I wanted to make, is that I can take a brand new machine out of a box n set it up without damaging it, and I am not experienced at this, so I cant see honestly how a experienced Stern dealer who has done this a hundred times cant unbox a machine and rebox it without any problems at all. They are not only experienced but also have a vested interest to make sure the machine is damage free during their work. Hence the precheck is still the best way to detect and fix faults.
Its difficult for me to believe that the precheck would not have fixed 90 percent of these issues had the dealer been given the opportunity, if it was offered. Machines do suffer faults in transport ofcourse and it pays to check every connector because transport does cause these things to come loose.
The question of Sterns computer boards have been raised. I cant predict the future about how long the modern day Stern board will last, but being a 2012 model with the latest technology, I would have to assume they have provided a product that will last a long time which also protects their name.
Not being solder through doesnt mean it isnt quality I am told. Time will tell ofcourse, but I have seen little evidence of people having board issues with Sterns in the past. Again, time will tell.
i am positive that in a few months these teething issues will be all fixed and everyone will be enjoying their machines. No pinball machine will ever be perfect no matter who builds it, but at least these issues are the minority and not the majority. Its all a steep learning curve.
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Not being solder through doesnt mean it isnt quality I am told
Very true.. depends on where the components were sourced of course. What it does mean though is that when these boards need repairing ( and its only a matter of time), it is beyond most people to do this and new boards will have to be sourced.
Now if a diode were to go open, or a transistor short, or a coil lock on and take out associated transistor... then its a new board you are up for when we all know that these are commonly sourced parts that could have been addressed by a trip to your local jaycar... this is no longer the case. To have to buy a new board due to a 0.9c component failing is utter stupidity on the part of Stern.
It is very very short sighted and completely ignores the existing pinball markets capabilities. Im really scratching my head over this.
Stern just dont seem to understand their own market
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I will agree here with you Gav because you are the expert when it comes to boards etc.
Three questions.
1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise.
3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
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1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
Probably also some surface mount - not sure how that effects the discussion here though.
2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise.
Massive difference - a 10 cent common component will be available for a long, long time, long after Stern stops making a specific board. Once day a game become an expensive boat anchor for want of a tiny problem that can't be fixed, and any Stern replacement boards costing many time their value due to rarity. No thanks.
3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
I have 20, 30 and 40 year old games that are perfect. And can be kept perfect because they are repairable. That's the problem we are discussing. If you are happy to scrap after ten years, that's fine then.
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I will agree here with you Gav because you are the expert when it comes to boards etc.
Three questions.
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3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
Im no expert... but have repaired a few boards over the years..
1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?.... Have no idea
2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise
Its cheaper to have surface mount boards made... wether the replacements are cheap or not we dont know.. none are on the market that i know of. How much is cheap? $100?? $200? $300?
My point is that Joe owner of a new Stern who can fix every other machine in the collection can no longer do this and has to send away for new boards... thats just plain stupid on the part of Stern
If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
Its not well made... we have machines DOA for chrissakes... the bell seems to be a badly thought out part of the machine that numerous people have had to address.
$9K for 10 years is bullshit Cavey... some of my machines are 70+ years old and still working. SS machines coming on 35 years old still working... yes theyve had repairs and faulty grounding on the manufacturers part has been addressed etc... but the point is they are still working because they are REPAIRABLE. The owners repair them and keep them going for years. This has been taken away from ACDC owners.. Sterns greatest triumph and yet they will not stand the test of time because Stern havent allowed it. It will be like CFTBL hologram except the board are the heart and lungs of the machine, not a nice glowy thing.
No matter how you look at it... Stern have seriously misread the home pinball market.
What happens if JJP really takes off and leaves Stern for dust? Will they still be operating?
The question you should really be asking yourself is HOW LONG the replacement boards will be available for.. and now what do you do?? Buy CPU, Driver etc boards as back up? to have on a shelf " just in case?"
Mate... you shouldnt have to do ANY of these things!
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I am just asking the questions ! so others can also learn and understand the bigger picture.
What they need is 50 Aussies on the production line. &&
I asked the question about WOZ and JJP Nick to see if they will follow suit with the same design boards, making this the norm, or will they go back to the older methods ? !@#
If i got a solid 10 yrs out of a Stern board, then the replacement was only a few hundred bucks I would be reasonably happy. Not many whitegood/electronic things in any industry last 10 years these days, not even new cars which cost 4 times as much.
Nothing anymore has a 20 or 40 year use by date anymore. They dont build em' like they used to.
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I think in years to come guys like homepin will fill the void for boards if they have a high failure rate,homepin seems very talented at redesigning pcb's,There are plenty of quality SMD products being made and not all of them would have high failure rates, what i would be more interested in is if anyone knows if the new boards have been made with lead/tin solder or that lead free crap.
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Well it sounds like the honeymoon period is over. #@#
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Well it sounds like the honeymoon period is over. #@#
not for me.lol my machine is perfect, but hopefully in a short time the others will all be happy as well. ^^^
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1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
Through hole.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/We-re-Never--Board--at-Jersey-Jack-Pinball---.html?soid=1104524641178&aid=20z8Wgd2W1c
1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.
Know your market. ^^^
what i would be more interested in is if anyone knows if the new boards have been made with lead/tin solder or that lead free crap.
Since the Euro customers also received their machines at about the same time as Aus, I am guessing the Aus units would have been lumped in with the rest of the Euro exports on the production line so due to ROHS compliancy would mean lead free. !@#
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Thanks Pinsanity for finding that. It looks like JJP has come out swinging with double the warranty than Stern has. Interesting.
JJP are definately coming out strong. Lets hope it rubs off to the whole industry.
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1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.
Know your market. ^^^
+1, great to see they understand that through hole for pinball has been proven (15 years ago) the only sensible option.
Maybe Stern will learn from their blunder and reassess their choice, although it would be very costly to change I am guessing.
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hmm lead free boards are the reason the xbox360 and ps3 had mega problems when they changed to lead free, they dont last long, maybe they should take that into account, both these guys admitted the lead free boards were a problem, the connections always failed when they got hot. it was noted to be worst in Australia and hotter climates.
will stern have the same sort of problem using lead free boads?
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The Chinese have their own version of RHOS which is under that of European standards.... Stern wont have any problems
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Can anyone think of another product that only has a 6 month warranty ? I can't.
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I offer 1 year for parts supplied... 3 years if i make and install.
6 months suggests a lack of confidence in a product to be quite honest
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Can anyone think of another product that only has a 6 month warranty ? I can't.
Mainly refurbished or second hand items come with a 6month warranty these days,although anything with a high wear rate example high end tennis shoes/tyres ect only come with a 6month warranty.
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The 6 month warranty is probably calculated really for operators who have machines onsite 24hrs a day, 7 days a week for high usage.
Perhaps the Home market should get a 12 month warranty instead but the only way for Stern to police this so to speak would be for the local Stern agent to provide a extended warranty for people that he knows only place the machines in a home environment for a home use only application.
But the problem here, is that every man and his dog is giving "siting a machine on a location" a go. So I wouldnt expect a 12 month warranty anytime soon unless Stern looks at matching JJP if they provide the 12 months warranty for the WOZ product etc.
* Also, I have read on the Stern website that they have a completely new boardset (new computer boards) coming at the end of 2012 which will then be provided to all new Stern pinball machines. Obviously, people who are interested in the boards and their makeup will be looking forward to the new boardset.
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Issues i had were as follows:
1) Failed bell opto - fixed in 3 days
2) Cannon getting stuck balls - fixed by adding mylar to smooth flow
3) Hologram sticker wrong number
4) Playfield has dent minor scratches - waiting for reply still
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Can anyone think of another product that only has a 6 month warranty ? I can't.
I offer 1 year for parts supplied... 3 years if i make and install.
6 months suggests a lack of confidence in a product to be quite honest
How much warranty did new Bally/Williams have ? You will probably find this has always been the standard warranty for pinballs due to them been sited more than a lack of confidence in a product.
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1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
Through hole.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/We-re-Never--Board--at-Jersey-Jack-Pinball---.html?soid=1104524641178&aid=20z8Wgd2W1c
1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.
Know your market. ^^^
(http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs004/1104524641178/img/66.jpg?a=1107614493659)
Socketed ICs, Through hole transistors, JJP at least has considered future repairs. I guess their market is a little different, they are really targeting the pinball enthusist/collectors market.
Where Stern, whilst telling people they are building for the home collector they are cutting costs and trying to get as many games as they can out the door, unfortunately leaving people unhappy, ultimately losing current and potential long term customers in the process.
Their games have seemed to be going towards the 'Costco' style for a few years, but AC/DC has been a real turnaround especially the Premium and LEs, just a shame about the quality, fingers crossed they will be reliable for many years to come we have to hope Stern have not cut costs on electronic components as well.
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1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
Through hole.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/We-re-Never--Board--at-Jersey-Jack-Pinball---.html?soid=1104524641178&aid=20z8Wgd2W1c
1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.
Know your market. ^^^
(http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs004/1104524641178/img/66.jpg?a=1107614493659)
Socketed ICs, Through hole transistors, JJP at least has considered future repairs. I guess their market is a little different, they are really targeting the pinball enthusist/collectors market.
Where Stern, whilst telling people they are building for the home collector they are cutting costs and trying to get as many games as they can out the door, unfortunately leaving people unhappy, ultimately losing current and potential long term customers in the process.
Their games have seemed to be going towards the 'Costco' style for a few years, but AC/DC has been a real turnaround especially the Premium and LEs, just a shame about the quality, fingers crossed they will be reliable for many years to come we have to hope Stern have not cut costs on electronic components as well.
That's a quality looking pcb that,looks like it could be made in america,looks like it has nice thick tracks and high quality sockets and a very thick pcb board.
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4) Playfield has dent minor scratches - waiting for reply still
Still....!
That's a nice looking board Jack.
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Still waiting! Need an answer to put this issue to bed!
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I have just diagnosed a fault with a bell opto board also on a customers machine. the problem was actually the surface mount transistor (Q1) has gone short and is tripping 4 switches.
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I have just diagnosed a fault with a bell opto board also on a customers machine. the problem was actually the surface mount transistor (Q1) has gone short and is tripping 4 switches.
and here we start with the surface mount crap............pretty hard for the average hobbyist to diagnose this sort of thing let alone actually repair it.
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The actual opto is through hole but the rest of the components are not.
As this is the second opto board fault mentioned in this thread I am assuming that this opto board has only been made for AC/DC and either they have a bad batch of transistors or some one stuffed up and specified a transistor that is not right for this application. #@#
Time will tell.
And they must have a really crappy batch of #89 flash lamps. I had to replace 6 of them because they were blown.
At least they were all easy to get to.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Stern, we don't live in a perfect world.
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The actual opto is through hole but the rest of the components are not.
As this is the second opto board fault mentioned in this thread I am assuming that this opto board has only been made for AC/DC and either they have a bad batch of transistors or some one stuffed up and specified a transistor that is not right for this application. #@#
Time will tell.
And they must have a really crappy batch of #89 flash lamps. I had to replace 6 of them because they were blown.
At least they were all easy to get to.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Stern, we don't live in a perfect world.
Maybe they bought 10,000 transistors at $0.001c each instead of $0.002C each also? Bad batch or sourcing cheapest possible parts?... only Stern know.
Is this Caveys machine??? If so it was the only one on the forum that hadnt had SOMETHING wrong with it...
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not my machine, someone elses. I believe it is a LE from the bottom of the Gold Coast.
my PRO machine is still perfect and going strong.
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BIBLE #056 still going strong. Total balls played so far is 1,031. No issues or alerts yet.
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Same issue I had with bell opto and fixed by tech - i wouldnt have a clue!
New playfield being sent out! Awesome!
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bottom end of the Gold Coast would be the Southern end, opposed to the Northern end, me thinks
nice one with the new Playfield Tilt, after sales service seems pretty good
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Same issue I had with bell opto and fixed by tech - i wouldnt have a clue!
New playfield being sent out! Awesome!
Is it the bare PF or a straight swap with PF bits on it?
Peter
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They are sending a replacement opto board.
the original is repairable if you have a steady hand great eye sight (or good magnification) and the right equipment.
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Same issue I had with bell opto and fixed by tech - i wouldnt have a clue!
New playfield being sent out! Awesome!
Is it the bare PF or a straight swap with PF bits on it?
Peter
Sending bare playfield and bell opto was repaired by tech
Its gonna be nice looking at a BIB portrait and hopefully it goes up in $$$!
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WOW!!! $#$
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Got it already?
Peter
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Yeah couldnt believe how quick?
Got airfreighted in cardboard box with 4 cushion type edge protectors like the ones used in their pinballs!
Very happy with Stern!
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great result
gives you confidence in buying a NIB
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Hope I get my back glass still no word :(
Peter
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update on the bell opto board. the customer received the new opto board, the customer fitted it and it lasted one game and it died again only this time only the bell wouldn't work and no other switches were locked on.
so another one was sent and i fitted it after checking the machine over for any shorts or problems in the switch matrix and no sign of any problems. !@#
I have ordered some replacement mosfets for the opto board to replace the 2 faulty ones. so the customer will have a couple of spare bell opto boards.
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sounds like there is an issue there somewhere?????
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Is it a members machine?
Seems to be having a bad run unfortunately.
Have they contacted the Stern agent for a tech to attend rather than having to pay for repairs / tech hours out of their pocket?
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Just got word that Stern are sending me a new back-glass to replace the scratched one whoo who #*#
Peter
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Just got word that Stern are sending me a new back-glass to replace the scratched one whoo who #*#
Peter
Glad to hear that
What are the plans for the spare one??
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Just got word that Stern are sending me a new back-glass to replace the scratched one whoo who #*#
Peter
Glad to hear that
What are the plans for the spare one??
I have to send the damaged one back !!!
Peter