The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Pinball Mods => Bally / Williams => Topic started by: swinks on January 03, 2013, 07:59:22 AM
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Henrik from Pinball_Dreams in Germany are working on a replacement hologram - info copied from Pinside &&
"Hi there again,
I'm happy to announce that I just got off the phone with Rick from Planetary Pinballs. PP are a great partner of us and we just agreed that FINALLY a perfect reproduction of Creature from the Black Lagoon holo simply must hit the market. There have been several more or less good attempts on that topic in the past, but none of them was really convincing so far. So we'll try our best to deliver this product as soon as possible.
There are of course some issues to be solved but already much work has been put into this project. I've talked to a lot of guys so far and now I finally found a company over here in Germany who are doing holos for over 35 years right now. I have a great feeling that these guys really know what they do and I have a great feeling about them. They immediately knew that only a specific foil from the 90's can be used for this project, the have a perfect sample of original holo which is bright and green.
The original figure of course is not available any more but a modelling school might be able to make a perfect 1:1 model of creature figure. Once this is done the actual repros are no huge problem any more.
So guys...let me know what you think on this topic - I formyself would love to have a brand new repro for one of my favorite pinball machines
Have a great day or eve - anyway have fun - we'll keep you informed
Cheers
Henrik"
"Don't know exactly how they are made in the end, but they are clearley made from a 1:1 modell. So everything could be used, but i surely don't wanna start a conversation concerning the model. We'll concentrate on 1:1 reproduction ...just like the original one was. Sure there might be nicer figures but we want the original look....and nope: no custom holos possible - not untill you wanna pay for the master holo which is a couple of thousands already...
I'll post pics of figure once done
Cheers
Henrik"
"Good morning,
just got off the phone with holo studio.
Status:
We 3d scanned a very similar figure of the original holo - still not 100% the same. At the moment a 3d artist works on the last details to make it look 1:1. This 3d model then will be 3d printed and here we go. We expect this model around 10th of January. Will post pics of this whole process very soon
Once this model is accepted from all parties involved, it'll take aprox 20 more days before we can provide the first holos. So by end of January the first holo repros should be available
Have a great week guys and girls
cheers
Henrik"
"Hi there,
as promised - some news beginning of January. Just received the first draft from my 3d guy - I think we're already VERY close to the original - enjoy
Happy new year to everybody
cheers
Henrik"
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Well - there is some great news for CFTBL owners ^^^
I know people who ( I think stupidly ) refuse to own this game totally because of the hologram issues that a lot of the games end up suffering.
This will ultimately solve that.
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Will stay tuned
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Great news, thanks for posting the info! ^^^
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Great news.
Finally, there sounds like a good solution to a long standing problem. Gotta hand it to the Germans *%*
I know people who ( I think stupidly ) refuse to own this game totally because of the hologram issues that a lot of the games end up suffering.
This will ultimately solve that.
Good point Wotto. There may be even more interest is this pin if the new hologram does the trick.
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I agree also Wotto that people won't buy it unless a holo is present is crazy. My didn't come with one so I bought a transparent green collectors figure and hooked up a green led and it works great but a holo would even better. The time he comes up is bugger all - a quick flash or two here and there, people should be buying regardless and do a mod a few options out there.
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=6810.0
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I just recently got myself a CFTBL - and I have also been speaking with with Mike D about his LCD replacement option he is developing. http://s437400854.onlinehome.us/?page_id=15
I would like to see what the pricing for this new holo is going to come in at - seems a like a very good time for the creatures. Decisions - Decisions.
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Yeah, that one is cool.
Here is AP thread link on that one
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9362.0
And an Aussie Dan has one as well, but have not heard any progress reports for a while and his link is this thread
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=8734.0
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Hi pinball heads,
to follow is a photo of the final (still virtual) figure we're gonna use. The shading of the eyes and mouth will of course be made prior to producing the hologram.
I'm of course aware of the fact that some of you fear that the same thing could happen like the repros from ip some years ago - holos turned red after a while. I can only repeat myself: my partner where the first ones over here in Germany who produced holos back in the mid 70's. When he received the original holo he exactly new which foil must be used for those holos. We're using exact the same material as the original ones from the 90's. My partner is 100% sure that those holos won't turn red and actually he has no idea how they could turn red - they must have been used the completely wrong material....
Till very soon - enjoy
Cheers
Henrik
Hi,
please be a little bit patient with the price - we simply cannot say something about that. One thing is clear - it won't be anywhere around the prices which were paid for the last original NOS ones in the past years. We were already talking about an end customer price we have in mind but I simply cannot communicate it here and now. I think the price will be reasonable, but cannot be cheap
We wanted to provide a perfect quality and therefor all people involved are genius in what they do and had to be paid according to that. For example a university professor for 3D modelling and 3D arts in Hamburg worked on the model for over 30 hours (just to give you an impression:)
Cheers
Henrik
btw: I really don't think one could compare a monitor screen solution with the "real thing". How much is the monitor solution ??
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another small update:
"Again - good morning
Update: unfortunately the 3D company was aprox 4 weeks later with supplying the model. It finally arrived at the holo studio today. They're working on the master now (should be done in 10 days) and then the first holo's can be produced. Meanwhile the mounting plate has to be done - so I can proudly annouce: the final product will now be ready within a very short preiod of time. For today please find a picture of the **REAL FIGURE** which I received from the company
Thx again and have a great time - till VERY soon
Henrik"
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latest update yesterday:
"Good morning everybody,
so...just very brief. I'll reveal the mystery Here's the pricing for the holo
- Pre-Order (early bird price) will be 299$ (net price)
- holos will be shipped with no VAT charged to any country outside Europe
- shipping will be around 25$ to the US
I will set up a preorderlist as soon as I have the first samples and I'm sure they are as perfect as I expect them to be. So PLEASE WAIT with any order - I'm back to you hopefully end of next week and will provide order details.
Have a great easter
cheers
Henrik"
This sounds like if you don't get with the pre-order this holo could go higher $350 at a guess, Dan's lcd option is around the low to mid $300 I think and then the US lcd has not had a price release but it is believed that you must locate and purchase the particular design lcd yourself to save on freight and the price in the states is $200 for the tv / monitor so this mod may end up being around the $500 ????? - Dan's is looking good
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$300 sounds an awful lot for something I could have made in China for under $2 each for 1000pcs (plus tooling costs) ???
I understand tooling costs only too well but they must be doing their sums on selling VERY few of these to come up with that sort of figure or have HUGE setup costs???
My preliminary investigations into this product revealed tooling of around $500
Making a guess at sales of 100pcs over 2 years (just a guess) of $35 each brings in $3500
Their costs would obviously be a lot higher but will the finished product be any better than one made in PRC?? For my money, I would certainly buy one at $35 but $300 I would baulk at.
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I think their prices are covering the "labour of love" time and money to develop the model to create the hologram image
I believe if they sold for $150 each they would sell alot, I am not going to pay $300 especially when it is a repro, sight unseen and not from the original mould / tooling.
And then you get a crazy ebay sale the other day for a hologram, hopefully not artificial to make the new ones look like good value
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hologram-Creature-from-the-Black-Lagoon-Pinball-CFTBL-New-Bright-Green-/230947805375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c58fd8bf
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$300 sounds an awful lot for something I could have made in China for under $2 each for 1000pcs (plus tooling costs) ???
I understand tooling costs only too well but they must be doing their sums on selling VERY few of these to come up with that sort of figure or have HUGE setup costs???
My preliminary investigations into this product revealed tooling of around $500
Making a guess at sales of 100pcs over 2 years (just a guess) of $35 each brings in $3500
Their costs would obviously be a lot higher but will the finished product be any better than one made in PRC?? For my money, I would certainly buy one at $35 but $300 I would baulk at.
+1
Some people just try n rip into fellow pinheads.
I know its no difference to any other business (maximum profit is the name of the game) but it just seems when a fellow pinhead is selling something at a massive profit, it tends to annoy you (well, me anyway).
Personally, If I found something, or invented something for a pinny, I would try n cover my costs n add something reasonable to cover time n effort driving to the post office. I would rather see a thousand people using my mod and make nothing so to speak, versus making 3 or 4 grand and only have 100 people using it. But I could be wrong.
I have to add Mikes Business (Homepins) is totally different, he has invested dozens of thousands of dollars and paid out for airfares over n over again to go to China to manufacture various computer boards and DMD displays etc, I will happily pay Mike the same money, or even slightly more to buy his DMD's/products when they are available, just to support a fellow Aussie/AP member who deserves the business all day long.
$300 for that Creature product seems very very expensive, but the crazy thing is, some people will just pay it as a one off. Its a crazy pinball world !
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And then you get a crazy ebay sale the other day for a hologram, hopefully not artificial to make the new ones look like good value
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hologram-Creature-from-the-Black-Lagoon-Pinball-CFTBL-New-Bright-Green-/230947805375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c58fd8bf
Sheesh...600 for a blurry PinballHeaven repro.
Illinois Pinball also remade a repro version a few years back (around the $300 US mark as well from memory) and tried to go the cost cutting route by using sub standard holo materials...half of the finished holograms ended up turning red or having the image deteriorate within 18 months.
I think this is a repro item where you just cannot cut corners to get a quality finished product (and if that results in a premium price, so be it).
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Dan's LCD is a waaaaaayy better option IMO , especially with the new version available soon .
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Dan's LCD is a waaaaaayy better option IMO , especially with the new version available soon .
I haven't seen one in the flesh but it does look better and I think will be the best value.
Also these repro holo's are made from a new hand crafted model so they will not be exactly like the originals but like the original concept.
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a little update from Henrik
"Hi guys,
patience is really hard these I'm talking to the holo studio every 2-3 days. It really seems to be hell of a work to make a perfect holo. My partner explained to me some days ago: they are working in a cellar deep below to avoid any vibration. The actual model is placed in postion and will have to stay there for aprox 2-3 hours till the movement of figure is completely setteld - I really couldn't believe that. Before they had their holo studio in first floor - whenever a heavy truck passed by the had to wait again for the model to settle down. Only a completely settled model can produce a really sharpe and perfect holo....
Status: they first airbruhed the figure and worked on all small details like eyes, mouth, etc. Then they attached it to an iron pole to prevent any movement. Now they've done it - they made the master holo. So the last bit that is left to do is to get the correct green color - they mentioned that no one in the past 15 years demanded a green holo
The reason why the before mentioned holos might have turned red is that the holo studio didn't push the light spectrum into the green spectrum which is possible. And of course they might not have used the right film.
I can only reply what my partners said right from the beginning - under normal conditions the color will remain green for years and I really trust those guys - they are making holos since the 70's and they should be experienced enough...
Enclosed please find a pic of the final model straight out of the holo studio from which the holo was made. Back to you next week with photo and film of the first samples I should finally receive in a couple of days
Have fun
cheers
henrik"
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Have to say it doesn't look too bad
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It looks good but I have to put a huge question mark over the suggested sell price? Some things are simply not worth making from my experience and if the rumoured sell price is true maybe this is one of them????
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another update from Henrik
"Hi guys,
here it comes - the first photo of the finished hologramm from my partner in Hamburg. The first two films will arrive on monday and I'll make a video of the final holo.
Some words: its really hard to make a nice photo of it. My partner said in real it's much sharper than the original hologram. I also talked again with him about the durability: he said that they get lots of inquirys from US companys concerning film material simply because the film material is hardly not available in the US cause it has been produced over here in Europe. He assumed that the repros from illinois pinball were made from the wrong film material. The proper material is quite rare in these times and they're one of the few companys that still have this kind of material on stock.
He said that in a normal environement this holo will last for centuries - they of course don't like too much direct sunlight and they don't like temperatures above 70C (which is aprox above 165F). So if you don't heat up your machine or put it in the desert you should have no problems with durability...
Back to you beginning of next week with a preorder list
Have a great weekend
Cheers
Henrik"
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I spose some purists will buy it , but I don't get why you would bother buying this when the LCD option kicks its arse *%*
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an update for the purists give the 3 options at the moment.
"Hi everybody,
at first let me apologize for not communicating in the past weeks. Sometimes life really su*'# - hate to sort out some really bad and sad private issues but as we all know life always continues and now I'm bakc to business...
The creature holo is ready and was tested it in 3 different machines. We all like the result we were working on for more than a year right now.
Some infos on the hologram:
Fading: I of course understand your concerns about the possibility of the hologram fading in a very short period of time. I had 3 different samples on different material - one sample made from the original monochromic material - the other ones made from newer film material.
I've chosen to make it out of the more modern material, rather than the polaroid film back from the 90's. The GREAT advantage: this holo will last for years (I could have said centuries but don't wanna risk complains in 20 years:). This material is not monochromic - so depending on the direction you look at the holo you have a full color spectrum - so you might see some blue or even orange etc. So please don't worry when you receive the holos and have a first glance at it. You simply MUST install it in the machine and the only color you'll see is bright green. Those holos need an exact angle (provided by the installed lamp and the angle the holo is mounted) to produce the desired color which is nothing but green
We'll give a 24 months warranty on the holo. Should they fade, you get a spare one or your money back. As mentioned before: I've seen holos that were 15 years old and looked like they were brand new - so I don't have any worries that the holo might fade. The holo's produced by IPB were definitely made of the wrong material.
To follow are some pics from the final holo - it was really hard to make decent photos. These photos were made in a photostudio - we also had to dim the surrounding lights in order to be able to make shots were you can see the beautiful details of the holo. For the ones amoung you who might state: I can make photos with my cheap camera - Yep - original holo made from Polaroid film had a wider range for the light and thus made it easier to make decent photos..and still in real those crazy details are much more visible than on these photos"
"Here you find a movie of the installed holo - and again: my digital camera wasn't really able to bring out the real bright green color - but this always seems to be a problem - when you look at all movies of the original holo there's always a little bit of blue depending on the direction of the movement..."
utoplay=1&rel=0
"We offer 2 versions:
1. Holo with self-adhesive foil to be sticked on original mounting plate
Preorder/early bird price is 299$ Net. price shipping from Germany
2. Holo including mounting plate for a 1:1 swap
Preorder/early bird price is 315$ Net. price shipping from Germany
Plus shipping costs - aprox 20$ to the US with DHL as carrier
These holograms are of course licensed through the license holder
Preorderlist is open from today on till june 30th. After that holos will be available at the well known distributors for a different price
Please send inquirys INCLUDING YOUR FULL CONTACT to: holo@pinball-dreams.com
Many thanks - really hope you enjoy your brand new holo repro
Cheers
Henrik"
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here is a video from expo of their product.
utoplay=1&rel=0
they were delayed due to having problems with the ultra thin metal strip, which I was able to help them so I think they are ready for sale.
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"We have the Creature Holograms (real holograms) coming from a partnership with Henrik at Pinball Dreams in Germany that we did on them. We will have the hologram with frame available for $349 ... if anyone is interested then let us know, there will be a limited amount available."
http://www.planetarypinball.com/product/product-name-rec7/
rick@planetarypinball.com
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A follow up to this. These are now in stock at PPS and I was going to take the plunge on one of these to replace my current blue Creech, but after seeing some comparison shots from a buyer on pinside I think I will stick with my original bluey.
Note: Both the original and the repro show up as blue in the photos, but only the original is actually blue, the repro is the proper green. It just lacks the definition of the original.
Top one is the repro which is actually green in real life.
Bottom one is the original which has turned blue.
Sidenote: another PPS approved product using a 3rd party. #@#
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I would be sticking with the original to.