The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Archived Threads => Homepin => Topic started by: Homepin on February 02, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
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OK - I was trying to keep this quiet until I actually had some product to test but things tend to leak when it's big news....
We are heavily into development of the Homepin LED DMD 128 x 32 and expect to have finished product about middle to late 2013.
There are some major differences with our product over the competitors:
(1) The Homepin DMD will be made using individual, custom made for us, 1.2mm LED semiconductors and so we will NOT be using the industry standard 'blocks' of LEDs that both other manufacturers use. This means NO visable lines that many complain about in the other displays available.
(2) Our DMD will use purpose made LED driver ICs that are made in Taiwan and ONLY available for sale in China - these are used on all of the huge outdoor LED advertising screens you see around the place and it means a lower parts count and less cost!
(3) Ours will be REPAIRABLE - yes, if one pixel dies you can replace that single LED OR return the DMD for an exchange unit (at this stage estimated to be $99 exchange - after the warranty period).
This product would not be possible if it was not for my excellent contacts in China and if I didn't have an office and staff there.
Here are some pictures in the factory that will be making the product for us - they manufacture the large outdoor screens and are very experienced at it.
Me holding an assembled RGB panel that is to have some final tests done before mounting in the plastic frame:
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/assembleled2.jpg)
The final inspection before being sent through the flow solder machine:
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/assembleled1.jpg)
Me, helping out with the assembly %.%
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/assembleleds.jpg)
A final QC check before being sent to the sealing section (Homepin units will not be sealed as they don't need to be waterproof):
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/assembleled3.jpg)
This is a BRILLIANT driver chip that solves a lot of problems when we design and build this product (Part # blanked out as commercial in confidence):
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/only.jpg)
It is our intention to also make the large 192 x 64 display that is now almost impossible to find and if you do manage to locate one the vendors often want $500 to $800 for it @@^
There is a VERY major investment in this project because the MOQ (at this stage) is 5000 pcs...I'm still looking at how to fund that - more news on this project as it comes to hand......................
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WOW - way to go Mike!
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Great work, good luck on its completion
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awesome, will you be doing colours as want a green one for my CFTBL ^^^
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awesome, will you be doing colours as want a green one for my CFTBL ^^^
I have until March 3rd to decide BUT I am leaning towards white with optional plastic filters that clip on the front for all the primary colours including the 'standard' orange
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Sweet Mike!
Look forward to seeing more about this one.
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awesome, will you be doing colours as want a green one for my CFTBL ^^^
I have until March 3rd to decide BUT I am leaning towards white with optional plastic filters that clip on the front for all the primary colours including the 'standard' orange
That would be a great way to give everyone the colours they want without too much hassle, nice.
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This is huge news. Well done Mike - Shipping was always a killer on these and the risks involved with damage.
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Agreed re the lens option. White LEDs seem to have a really nice lumens. Games like T2 scream for a blue or grey lens
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Very impressive stuff Mike. Some great ideas with a repairable display that you can change the colour of at will. Is it going to be a drop in type lens?
Very best of luck with it all.
Maybe a business partner to help fund the project??
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can you make the small 128x 16 dmd as well? These too are hard to get and expensive.
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awesome, will you be doing colours as want a green one for my CFTBL ^^^
I have until March 3rd to decide BUT I am leaning towards white with optional plastic filters that clip on the front for all the primary colours including the 'standard' orange
I was thinking of this a little while ago, as long as it works I reckon that would be awesome.
Also will these cater for the various shades of light to assist in detail?
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Well done Mike. Forward thinking and dedication as usual. A big 3 thumbs up. ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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(3) Ours will be REPAIRABLE - yes, if one pixel dies you can replace that single LED OR return the DMD for an exchange unit (at this stage estimated to be $99 exchange - after the warranty period).
And on this point, WIN
I have a couple of Xpin displays and I love them
But they did arrive with dead pixles (I was offered replacement blocks, but my soldering is not that good)
I would go for colored LEDs, not filters (but will buy either way)
but at 5000 units, they might be hard to sell
will they be 100% plug and play?
With xpin I still had to fit a foam surround and thin sheet of plastic over the top of everything
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Awsome Mike will definately grab a couple when there done
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About time,
lol, @@*
Red
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They will be plug and play BUT there will be a difference....more details later
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i will be ordering some thats for sure
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#*# Awesome stuff Mr Homepin. For a pinny that is constantly in the on/attract status I wonder what the energy savings will be also? good selling point to get more pins sited me thinks ^^^
Good work - need a new display for my GI - best game of all time! %.%
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#*# Awesome stuff Mr Homepin. For a pinny that is constantly in the on/attract status I wonder what the energy savings will be also? good selling point to get more pins sited me thinks ^^^
Good work - need a new display for my GI - best game of all time! %.%
Not a lot if any id have thought... plasma is high voltage low current... LED low voltage high current
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Not a lot if any id have thought... plasma is high voltage low current... LED low voltage high current
You're pretty right Gav - my display (as calculated currently) is about 1A5 at 5V
What this display does of course is it gets rid of the need for ALL of the high voltages.
Before someone picks up on this as well - I have already organised a SEPERATE supply of the 5V so that it will NOT load down the existing boards.
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#*# Awesome stuff Mr Homepin. For a pinny that is constantly in the on/attract status I wonder what the energy savings will be also? good selling point to get more pins sited me thinks ^^^
Good work - need a new display for my GI - best game of all time! %.%
Not a lot if any id have thought... plasma is high voltage low current... LED low voltage high current
WOW, would never have thought that. Learn something new everyday. Really would have thought LED is much more energy efficient as it produced much less heat except for maybe the drivers.
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#*# Awesome stuff Mr Homepin. For a pinny that is constantly in the on/attract status I wonder what the energy savings will be also? good selling point to get more pins sited me thinks ^^^
Good work - need a new display for my GI - best game of all time! %.%
Not a lot if any id have thought... plasma is high voltage low current... LED low voltage high current
WOW, would never have thought that. Learn something new everyday. Really would have thought LED is much more energy efficient as it produced much less heat except for maybe the drivers.
That depends on what you are comparing it to... incandescent bulbs.. yes.. the notion of heating an element so hot that it burns white inside a vaccuum is very archaic... neon, compact cold flourescent lighting (CCFL) and LED all work semi cold... LED gives heat out of the back... CCFL and neon have the resistance in the cathodes and some heat is present here... but all 3 are very efficient in producing light for very little power input. LED while only having a current requirement of around 20mA is very good.. problem is that you need lots of them to be able to do anything and so the current adds up... neon signs work on 24mA... CCFL around 20mA. All 3 forms of lighting are considered green and sustainable.
SMPS drivers for LED are mostly around 80% efficient.. many are far below this... what you draw from your 240V source is what your power supply requires.. not what your light source requires.
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SMPS drivers for LED are mostly around 80% efficient.. many are far below this... what you draw from your 240V source is what your power supply requires.. not what your light source requires.
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Yeah sweet. Definitely runs cooler with LED rather than plasma which is a big + for longevity of the product. I suppose $ saved is minimal in energy consumption over the course of a year due to it's size. Still a good selling point though. Wouldn't you agree?
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Yeah sweet. Definitely runs cooler with LED rather than plasma which is a big + for longevity of the product. I suppose $ saved is minimal in energy consumption over the course of a year due to it's size. Still a good selling point though. Wouldn't you agree?
I think bigger selling points are the complete removal of all high voltages (and also the ability to ignore the troublesome high voltage regulator circuitry) and that these displays (at this point in the design anyway) will be repairable - so if a single pixel goes out you don't need to replace a block of LEDs as you do in the other designs.
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Great news for us hobbyists! Awesome product, can't wait to see how it all turns out!!
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That is definitely excellent news Mike !! How are you going to top this one ?
Awesome work ^^^
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Here is a short video of the factory showing the LED sorting/testing machine. It tests each LED and measures its exact light frequency. Any that fall outside set parameters are rejected. It then automatically organises them the correct way around and with exact spacing onto cardboard tapes ready for the insertion machine:
After the LEDs are ready they are fitted to the LED inserting machine. It takes each LED and puts it the correct way around in the correct hole. This machine is (again) assembling three colour (RGB) panels for outdoor signs - it inserts a row of red LEDs, then a row of green and finally a row of blue - then starts again for the next row:
All of these machines have to be setup for my product to be run and this is one of the reasons the factory can't do short runs - it simply isn't economically feasable:
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Amazing technology - I guess it makes sense that there are machines like this but first time I have seen them!
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Amazing technology - I guess it makes sense that there are machines like this but first time I have seen them!
Yep, you should see the REST of the factory, it's like a hospital BUT some would still cry "Chinese shit" - hahahaha
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I hope those workers have ear protection
The more I learn about the Chinese, the more impressed I am
My son was over there for a few weeks last year, their public transport makes it look like Australia is still using steam engingines
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can you make the small 128x 16 dmd as well? These too are hard to get and expensive.
I have added that to the 'wish list'
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This is great news $#$ I can't wait to see a working version.
I would think the white LEDs are the way to go, that way I could change the colours as often as I want ^^^
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BRILLIANT
In every sense of the word.
@@*
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Great work again Mike
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Might be a bit hard to see in this line drawing but on the RHS you can see an 'end on' view. The printed circuit board is on the left and the black plastic moulded frame on the right. I have added a lip around the edge so that, from the front, it will fill the existing area provided for by the game manufacturer without the need to add a foam trim.
Doing it this way also leaves space on the PCB for the driver IC's and other stuff - they fit under the lip. The overall height is 2MM lower than a glass DMD so that will allow room for a coloured filter that will fit over the entire front.......well, that's the plan at this stage anyway......
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/dmd.jpg)
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would using rgb leds and a adjustment to change colour be too expensive?
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would using rgb leds and a adjustment to change colour be too expensive?
The LEDs I am having custom made are only 1.5MM in diameter (white) - to fit three chips in this package (R,G & B) AND then have 4 legs on each device takes the leg count from 8192 legs (in the product as it stands) to 16384 with RGB LEDs - I don't think they would pysically fit on the board???
Then you have to multiply the driver circuitry by three as well - again, I doubt all the chips needed would pysically fit on the board as it is - it could be done with a seperate stand alone driver board.
Doing this would multiply the cost of the product by many times and decrease the reliability.
The only way it would be marginally economical (or even physically possible) would be to use surface mounted RGB LEDs and that is not where I want to go because the product then becomes throw away.
Much easier and FAR cheaper to clip on a coloured filter.
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When will these be available Mike? Do u think they will be cheaper than $250 that u get a Cherry display for? I need a new display for my Gilligans Island, will wait for yours but depends how far away they are? Cheers Dean
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When these are produced and a blue filter is possible, I'll be all over it for my Tron. Looks like a great design!
Cheers!
Adam.
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When will these be available Mike? Do u think they will be cheaper than $250 that u get a Cherry display for? I need a new display for my Gilligans Island, will wait for yours but depends how far away they are? Cheers Dean
These won't be ready until the end of the year AT THE EARLIEST. There are many many things to have done. Tooling for the plastic frame, actual manufacture of the 1.5MM LEDs (5 million pcs is the minimum order), final tweaking of the circuitry and then manufacture of the PCBs in one facility - then the surface mount parts populated by another factory - then off to the final factory for LED insertion and burn-in/testing.
Then there are the colour filters (all the primary colours at this stage as well as the original orange) - plus the mould I have to have made for the clips to hold the filter in place........
Not to mention the design and manufacture of the small add-on power supply to run it along with its associated wiring looms to be made - packaging to be designed, printed, die cut and assembled - too many other small details to list here.
This project will involve, as a bare minimum, three extended trips to China with at least three weeks each trip dedicated to this project alone and an investment (at this stage) of around AU$200K (and that will no doubt climb as it always seems to) as the setup and initial run costs NOT counting any of my time or the time of my staff. The minimum order runs are massive when you are looking at something like this.
I really have no idea of price at this early stage but naturally I have to meet the existing market which stands at US$259 retail. I am hoping to beat that by a long way but currently I have no idea.
I am doing my best to make this product high quality, repairable and as universal as possible rather than make it as cheap as possible. This takes a lot of time, bench work and leg work talking to many different engineers at many different factories.
The further time moves on - the harder to get and more expensive plasma displays will become as production of these by all three manufacturers, Vishay, Cherry & Babcock has now ceased. Vishay do make a LED replacement and it sells for (more than) US$500.
The other two manufacturers of LED replacements are around the $259 price mark (and higher) and people complain about them having 'lines' etc - this is because they both use industry standard LED blocks, probably because they don't have the right contacts to do anything else?
That's the long answer - the short answer is - if you can buy a plasma display now for $200~250, BUY IT!
It's the hundreds of small things that go unseen - just being able to converse with engineers in technical terms is a test sometimes - I'm hoping my new book will help there (nearly $200):
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/book1.jpg)
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/book2.jpg)
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Thanks Mike for all your work
It is appreciated
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I haven't pulled the dmd's out but could these replacements be used only in Bally or can they be used in Stern's as well.
I will definitely buy one off you with a green filter for a cftbl ^^^ , and happy to wait
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I haven't pulled the dmd's out but could these replacements be used only in Bally or can they be used in Stern's as well.
I will definitely buy one off you with a green filter for a cftbl ^^^ , and happy to wait
These will fit Bally/Williams (WMS), Stern, Gottlieb - all machines that use the standard 128x32 display - the majority of DMD machines in fact.
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Great news with some clever solutions! Good luck!
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I have had a lot of interest in this project from a lot of quarters. It is actually moving along pretty well. I am in my China office from next Wed for 5 weeks and I already have one of my staff set aside to spend most of that time with me on this project. They have made appointments at LED manufacturers, plastic injection mould making factories and LED assembly plants.
The first step in this project is to have the LEDs manufactured to my specs. Then comes the plastic frame. After that it will come together fairly quickly. Despite what a lot think, things move pretty slowly in China.
Here are some 'teaser' engineering drawings of the plastic frame and the LEDs (they may not represent the finished product and certain 'sensitive' info removed):
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/DRAWINGS.jpg)
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This project looks awesome! you can count me in for one when it comes out
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will you just pull out the magic wand and get them ready %.%
I keep having to buy plasma displays to replace my customers faulty displays.
On a lighter note i had some one tell me to day that the reason why the dmd display is only half working at any one time on the machine they are selling is because the batteries on the CPU board need replacing. !@#
thank heavens for that, i thought i would have to replace the display but it turns out i can save heaps of $$$ just by replacing 3 batteries. #@#
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On a lighter note i had some one tell me to day that the reason why the dmd display is only half working at any one time on the machine they are selling is because the batteries on the CPU board need replacing. !@#
thank heavens for that, i thought i would have to replace the display but it turns out i can save heaps of $$$ just by replacing 3 batteries. #@#
Yes, those batteries cause all sorts of stupid problems don't they... %.%
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On a lighter note i had some one tell me to day that the reason why the dmd display is only half working at any one time on the machine they are selling is because the batteries on the CPU board need replacing. !@#
thank heavens for that, i thought i would have to replace the display but it turns out i can save heaps of $$$ just by replacing 3 batteries. #@#
Yes, those batteries cause all sorts of stupid problems don't they... %.%
next project...... batteries
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next project...... batteries
I'm working on FRAM at the moment for most battery backed up RAM replacement. Others have done this already but (IMO) their prices are a bit steep for what is offered......I'm starting with 2464 as that is what's on the WMS MPU
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Some parts for our test setup arrived this morning from some suppliers. These parts will be used to build a few prototype units so we can tweak things a little. More to happen on this project next week.
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/smd.jpg)
I have also been in negotiation over the colour filters with several suppliers (the following ARE NOT the final colour choices and may not render correctly on your computer screen):
(http://www.homepin.com/pics/colours.jpg)
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If you need a test pilot for a green dmd for a creech, let me know