The Aussie Pinball Arcade

Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => Suggestions? => Topic started by: Admin on May 04, 2013, 03:41:19 PM

Title: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Admin on May 04, 2013, 03:41:19 PM
Time for some member input guys!

The Admins have started to hear some talk about the forum, it's present direction, and how it has strayed from it's origins.
 
While change is important for growth, growth can also bring with it a loss of focus on the fundamentals.
 
We originally created this forum because there was (and is) no other real place in Australia for people with genuine passion for the history of the game to swap information, restoration and technical help.
 
Over recent years, the forum has grown both in numbers, and in the areas in which we have sections. Unfortunately, this seems to have alienated many of the original members who are not interested in the current direction and we have seen a decrease in activity in the restoration and technical areas.
 
As administrators, we personally would rather see one good restoration thread than ten opinions on the latest and greatest.
 
The difficulty is of course maintaining a forum that is the best it can be, to the best people it can have as members, balanced against honouring its grass roots.
 
We find ourselves at a crossroad.

As part of the impending software upgrade, we thought it timely to seek some guidance from members - and we really hope to hear from those respected people who have started to lurk rather than post. With the thoughts of members we can help shape the future of the forum. If members are not interested in change, then that may be the path forward. But please let us have your comments.
 
There is just one rule - members are asked as an Administrator direction not to argue against the suggestions of others. Members are free to offer support/agreement to comments that are posted, but we do not want to hear counter-arguments against the thoughts of members prepared to post. While this might seem incongruous, we want a situation where members are able to have their say freely - if there is no support for comments or common themes, the Admins will take the lack of support into consideration.

Think of it pretty much as a poll - vote your thoughts without worrying about opinionated members attacking them.

We are not wanting anyone "shot down" by members posting negatives or wanting to argue points, or reply against the thoughts of others. If you do not like or agree with a comment, then ignore it. If you are in support of a comment, post your support.
 
So let's hear your thoughts!!!
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Homepin on May 04, 2013, 04:02:10 PM
I agree that restoration threads (pin & arcade) are far more interesting and educational than a rant or report on the latest machine from XXXX.

I personally get great satisfaction from seeing someone assist another member to track down a fault or hard to get part - sometimes I'm pleased to say it's me but most times other members far more knowlegable than I am.

I think the current mix on the forum is fine - but that's just me. I don't have a problem with all of the threads, if I don't like one, I don't bother looking at it.

Sometimes the best threads can be the "gripe" ones if only for entertainment value but often they also offer an insight into topics etc that I had little or no knowledge of.

I often put up a new thread when I have a new board available or I am developing something - that interests ME but may not appeal to others, they can simply ignore my posts (as I'm sure many do  <.>)

People come and go from this hobby as they do from all others.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Freiherr on May 04, 2013, 04:35:11 PM
As the heading says, Australia's #1 Pinball Forum.
It should have everything related to pinball: news, events, collections, projects, technical, suggestions, restorations, reviews, etc. Members choose what they want or do not want to read or contribute.
If only for restorations, then rename to Aussie Pinball Restorers Forum.
A forum is only as good as the member contributions so if the membership is growing then ods are that so is member input. The content is probably grown to the point where it needs to be organised and well layed out. I mean, if you had 9 Nip Its to restore, you wouldn't do a separate restore thread for each one.
Whatever the outcome, I stress one point, pinball popularity has grown through sites like AP and the internet. Just think how quickly news, opinions, questions and answers travel around the world thanks to forums, facebook, twitter and emails. Back in the old days it was just what you talked or heard about at the local milk bar and that was it.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 04, 2013, 04:57:13 PM
Forgot to mention, this is a breakdown of the stats page. (My last post on this-don't worry.lol).
It will/may give an idea about what people are looking for when visiting Aussie Pinball > ( * posts)

General Pinball Discussion  42455 *
Restorations  14872
Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance  12558
Non Pinball/coin-opp Discussion  8560
eBay sales  7194
Introduce Yourself  5787
Pinballs for sale  4892
Parts wanted  3953
News & Announcements  2890
Meets & Gatherings  2875

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=stats

 
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 04, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
Looks like I have stirred the pot  !*!

Pinball is going through a new cycle
in the past, Stern released one good machine out of every four they produced, sure there was some excitement that maybe this would be the next LOTR, never was, and so we went back to talking about the Bally/Williams (or older) machines. but older games need love and attention to keep them going, so restore and maintenance threads are active

now Stern have started producing better games, and the technology is there that even a couple of guys in a shed can do a small run of brand new pinball machines.

As somebody posted in the 'the commentary has changed' thread, it is better that there is something new happening in pinball, rather reading pinball's eulogy


As for Aussie Pinball, the site is good. That it is active is a good thing
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: delarge on May 04, 2013, 06:25:13 PM
I like this forum because it is purely pinball, it doesn't get bogged down in general discussion (my two legged dog Owen died) where people start nit-picking at each other and it doesn't have constant moderator intervention and threats of exclusion to its members that bring value (and traffic) to the forum.

As someone put it before, if you don't like a particular thread, don't go near it.

Love this forum and the people on it and personally, I don't think it needs changing. It's a great time for the pinball hobby and we're all here for the same reason. The love of pinball. Whether it be EM or DMD, they're all bashing a silver ball around a big wooden box.

Cheers!
Adam.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Homepin on May 04, 2013, 06:26:38 PM
my two legged dog Owen died


Sorry to hear that  %.%
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Retropin on May 04, 2013, 06:57:35 PM
Not an easy thread to post on and i have thought out my reply before posting.. hopefully, ive thought it through enough.
I havent been around for a while and didnt log in for a few weeks as ive really had enough of threads and posts that really have no place on the forum. Ive taken a look at Pinside and had some small activity on there in the hope that it was different.. it isnt. So many threads about what people think will come next from Stern or JJP.. its all rubbish and just fills the forum with fluff.. this is how i see AP these days.. lots of posts.. very few of substance, many are just not remotely pinball or coin operated. Its fast becoming a place of gossip and fantasy.. plenty of posts but fewer posters and those few posters seem to post anything, no matter how trivial. Post after post about whos emailing who.. what would happen if this scenario ever became real.. no need to go on - weve all read them.
Ok.. so AP is a great forum and we need to keep it that way.. its a lot smaller than Pinside which is good but in all honesty, its just the same.
When AP started out, its agenda was to be a forum that placed itself above all others with quality over quantity.. that is what we wanted it to be.. those that sat here on day 1 trying to start a discussion will attest to that.
I know a forum evolves and i  said  to Nino right at the start that one day it will take on a life of its own and be bigger than the individual personalities.. this isnt quite true with AP as some members seem to post like a dog scenting a tree.
Needless to say, its not for me and rather than have a forum full of piffle to look at, like some before me, id rather walk away.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: GORGAR 1 on May 04, 2013, 06:59:02 PM
Leave AP as it is its an awesome forum, pinballs massive at the moment and with young guys getting into the hobby and new great titles coming out it'll only get better and more popular its a great time for the hobby. I enjoy the resto's and the story's from the older members about the old days about operating pinballs the most, my taste has changed and I'm now into the new sterns but I regularly go to meets around Melbourne and Victoria and love playing all the older games to :-)
Big thanks to the guys that run this site your hard work is much appreciated :-)

Peter
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 04, 2013, 07:42:56 PM
Where to start........

I saw Pete's post the other day and I can understand where he is coming from, and have noticed a decline in posting from some of the well liked knowledgeable posters (Gav, Mike, Nino, Nick and many more) - which personally I miss as many of the posts are of high quality.

Like a few of the guys have said AP is a great site and provides alot of information for all walks of life who are into pinballs - whether it be restoration, general, new, sales, modifications etc which I think it is a great thing. I think if it reverted to a restoration site only I think the member numbers would plummet and maybe the lurkers would rise (as a percentage of poster's to members).

I do have to take some responsibility for the site's change -  good in some people's eyes and bad in other people's eyes - SORRY. I say this because I pushed for the Mods section to start up as with a few other sections. I say SORRY because possibly making these sections more noticeable possibly changed the traffic through the site on a daily basic. Sorry to the guys that hate modifications and live for restorations.

On the flipside having a site that is quite varied grabs the newbies whether they are in it for the new Sterns or in it to restore a old classic but you can only hope the guys into the new style of pins say to themselves - I want one of those old classic pins one day. But for example for me in my particular time of life I have 2 young kids and so restoring is out of the question (time wise) but have 2 that I want to do a full restore so this site serves as a great source of information and the people are very happy to help and one day will frequent that section.

As for posts, many people have told me when crap has hit the fan to hang in there and they appreciate my style of posting - informative and helpful where I can with most posts being interesting. I was one of those kids that got bullied and bashed so I try never to dish it out to others and try to show respect at all times. There are always others that want to stir crap up or are frustrated with some and some obvious to how they say things could upset others. But if a thread name or the category does not interest me I just don't open it so I avoid the crap or the threads of non interest to me.


Ok one suggestion, and historically people don't like my suggestions for what ever reason but feel this may aid everyone so here goes and don't know if it is possible.

When you login to AP you choose a section to be diverted to, either

Old School - has the restorations, repairs, Nostalgic and the like in this section

New School - has the modifications, pin shows, general pinball chit chat, sales, trades, reviews, sited, new pins, custom pins etc

I believe most people will create a shortcut straight to the devision they like most and then there is less likely cross over of guys stirring others up with mindless crap in particular people's eyes. But say myself might visit New School 6 out of 7 days so the Old School guys don't have to see me post 10 posts of Metallica videos  ^.^ like I did today - Sorry, but when I have a problem or am curious of pin repairs or restorations I log into the Old School section. Also maybe for the old school section have a strict rule of no crap talk so the threads there are strictly informative and the mods have the right to keep it just informative. Also when you log in to which ever section you can only see say the 15 most recent posts of New School and likewise in the Old School section, but when in say Old School you don't see the recent post activity of the New School Section.

Also I believe if you have not logged in or not a member you should not be able to open threads maybe just see the index to sweeten a new member in that might want to contribute. Other sites don't allow you to see beyond the index and does not allow a thread to be viewed.

This is just an idea and maybe a way to have the best of both worlds. I don't know if it is possible or too much hassle but in the end Nino and Nick setup up this site with a goal / direction and we need to respect that if it is their wish to change it so be it.

Good luck with the new direction of the site and happy for what ever direction you choose.

Kind Regards
Jady
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Boots on May 04, 2013, 08:07:02 PM
I don't think it really matters what posts are put up as long as it is about Pinball.
I chose to ignore the threads I am not interested in as I am sure most others do also.
My preference is mostly the restoration threads and the technical help threads, both getting help from others and providing help where possible.
It's always good to see what new toys Mike (HOMEPIN) is coming up with.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pintoxicated on May 04, 2013, 08:26:45 PM
OK.....my 2 cents worth.

I will try to keep this short.  I totally understand where everyone is coming from but in this case dare I say, we need to look at the glass half full.

Pinball has and is undoubtedly evolving and I believe that we, as a forum, need to evolve with it or run the risk of becoming irrelevant.  There is absolutely no reason why we cant embrace both the old and the new, as others have done before us.  

For me, basically leave the forum as is.  There isnt anywhere near as much rubbish on AP as other forums such as a member whinging that his bonsai trees had been eaten by snails.  Yes, this was a thread on another pinball forum.  As others have mentioned, if we dont like a thread or post simply ignore it.

The mods do an excellent job in keeping the forum under control and I would like to throw my whole hearted support behind them.

It is great to see that the admin guys are actually taking this approach and putting it out there for everyone to have their say.  It would not happen else where that's for sure.  

So wrapping up, I believe we leave things as we are and perhaps review this topic again in 3 or 6 or 12 months time as the need arises.  AP must ensure it remains relevant to the entire pinball community.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinball god on May 04, 2013, 09:29:24 PM
I don't mind the way the forum is. Again you don't need to look at things that don't interest. I do find that a lot of threads turn nasty and some try to convert to the unconverted when in my case I don't mind a persons opinion but don't force me to agree or at the least make me feel I am lesser a person.

So leave its place as is but close a thread pronto if people great agro and hopefully they will learn that topics won't last if it goes in that direction.

Personally I'm finding a lot of tech threads are ignored for want of a better word and few and far between. I do want to see more restos too. Thanks
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: studley67 on May 04, 2013, 09:43:45 PM
i can't quite see the point of this excersize,unless you admin already have decided on a direction that you wish to enforce.I personally think it is fine as it is,balanced and informative.while being entertaining.

you will ultimately decide as "you" own the forum.

Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: noj472 on May 04, 2013, 09:57:48 PM
As a newbie to the forum (5 months and counting) I wouldn't change a thing. I like the layout and design of the site which is what usually puts me off forums. When I was bitten by the pinball bug late last year I needed to find out more about this awesome invention. Aussie Pinball not only helped me learn and grow a passion for Pinball, it also helped me with my first ever purchase of a machine.

My two cents....
Thanks all for your info and I'm looking forward to reading future restoration, for sale and general pinball discussion threads.

Anthony
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan on May 04, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
I think it's fine, as is...I mean if a topic dosnt intrest you then don't read it.  This forum, I thought was about all things Pinball, EM, SS, DMD, repairs, restores, everything.  Then you simply read the topics that intrest you! It ain't that hard people.

Leave as is, it's great  ^^^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Crashramp on May 04, 2013, 10:08:17 PM
I think it's fine, as is...I mean if a topic dosnt intrest you then don't read it.  This forum, I thought was about all things Pinball, EM, SS, DMD, repairs, restores, everything.  Then you simply read the topics that intrest you! It ain't that hard people.

Leave as is, it's great  ^^^

Spot on.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ktm450 on May 04, 2013, 10:24:11 PM
I am going to say it how I see it, i have talked to others who also feel this way unfortunately...

I am sad to see how much it has changed.  We have lost a lot of valuable contributors because of posts filling the forum with opinionated fluff. 

The guys who left or are no longer posting had a wealth of knowledge on all things repairs and restoration, this was the go to site if you wanted your repair question answered, and it would usually be answered within half an hour!!

It is a real shame that an individual can cause such change to the "feeling" of the forum, and infuriate so many.  People come and go but unfortunately because of this I am not enjoying pinball as much and regularly go one or two months without turning a game on.

Sure everyone has the right to their own opinions, but keep it real, if people are continually telling you to pull your head in, take it on board, no need to push your point over and over ad nauseum.

So what would I like other than the ignore button to remain, I would like to see Aussie pinball get back to its roots, of helping people with problems, seeing the amazing restores that people have completed, sharing parts, generously giving your time to do things for others, getting together for a meet, feeling like a real family of like minded blokes, whom even if you have never met, you still have the utmost respect for.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Cow Corner on May 04, 2013, 10:59:12 PM
The future NEEDS less censorship!
 ^^^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: RottyGuy on May 05, 2013, 12:14:58 AM

I mean if a topic dosnt intrest you then don't read it. 



 ^^^  Very simple really.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: rustalan on May 05, 2013, 02:34:50 AM
Well when i log in I go first to Restoration, Then to Tech, then to for sale and parts as this is what interests me. I find heaps of help and havw been able to rebuild and or problem shoot with the help of others. I'm 57 and this will be my retirement hobby, doing what I loved as a teen and young adult playing pinball. My Grandson has Autism and pinball has increased his eye hand coordination, If it wasn't for this site and those willing to help then this wouldn't be happening. With out the tech side NO PINBALL.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Homepin on May 05, 2013, 08:23:52 AM
Well when i log in I go first to Restoration, Then to Tech, then to for sale and parts as this is what interests me. I find heaps of help and havw been able to rebuild and or problem shoot with the help of others. I'm 57 and this will be my retirement hobby, doing what I loved as a teen and young adult playing pinball. My Grandson has Autism and pinball has increased his eye hand coordination, If it wasn't for this site and those willing to help then this wouldn't be happening. With out the tech side NO PINBALL.

FANTASTIC report - I'm sure the local newspaper would love to run such a positive story.....
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: riverinapinball on May 05, 2013, 08:35:55 AM
Only  been looking at this forum for the last few months or so. I like the topics, best topics for me , help topics, new pins, restos.

I think the forum is fine as is.

Members make the forum. So it is there topics, posts that make it.

 Maybe some respect for others when disagreeing about opinions . 

I would think , in most situation were posts get a bit nasty .

That a member should stop and think . " would i say something in this post that i wouldnt say to someone standing in front of me"
Use a bit of common courtesy.

Anyway... Great forum
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Mr Pinbologist on May 05, 2013, 09:57:17 AM
For me, the old saying "if it aint broke don't fix it" springs to mind, so as others have said, leave it as it is  ^^^ ^^^

If a particular thread or topic doesn't interest me i don't read it, often i'll log in and go straight to the unread threads, and tick off and hit the 'mark as read' button for  the ones i have little or no interest in. Nice n easy.

Another thing, i find this forum much more user friendly than any of the others i have been a part of, much easier to navigate  ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: goodolddays on May 05, 2013, 11:24:41 AM
Not much I can add to what has already been said. If you are not interested in a topic, then don't read it .

Yes, there is a lot of posting that I find completely irrelevant, such as the speculation about 'Stern's next Pin' or JJP , but I don't read it cause I couldn't care less about it .

I think the mods would be making a huge amount of work for themselves trying to police what is posted here . The 'mark as read' is my most used option .

I too would like to see more resto threads but this is a hobby for most of us and life/other priorities often gets in the way of allowing time for pinball restoration, unfortunately .

 
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Cursed on May 05, 2013, 11:27:39 AM
I think it's fine, as is...I mean if a topic dosnt intrest you then don't read it.  This forum, I thought was about all things Pinball, EM, SS, DMD, repairs, restores, everything.  Then you simply read the topics that intrest you! It ain't that hard people.

Leave as is, it's great  ^^^

Could not have said it better myself.

i can't quite see the point of this excersize,unless you admin already have decided on a direction that you wish to enforce.I personally think it is fine as it is,balanced and informative.while being entertaining.

you will ultimately decide as "you" own the forum.

Also agree, not really seeing the point?
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: 4_amusement_only on May 05, 2013, 12:55:44 PM
As long as all aspects of pinball are available for discussion (of which they are) then let it run its course.

The only thing that ticks me off is people not knowing the difference between adjectives THERE and THEIR.

Instances of the adjective 'there'

Over there is a pinball machine
There once was a pinball forum

Instances to use the possessive adjective 'their'

I went into their shop, Pizza n Pinball
I bought a pinball. It was once theirs but now its mine.

Also after a full stop in a sentence....don't start your next sentence with AND!!

Posts tend to look a lot more creditable if they do not fail to show basic primary school sentence formulations and expressions. I like to quickly look over the structure of a post before posting, so I know I'm not looking like an uneducated pinball noob.  ^^^



       
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: FreePlay on May 05, 2013, 02:01:52 PM
Perhaps threads which are non pinball related be prefixed with NPR (not pinball related) eg "NPR - my dog died". I've seen this done in other forums with great success

Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ddstoys on May 05, 2013, 02:05:31 PM
I like swinks idea of an old school new school option.  I'm finding it hard to find time to log on of late I love the restores and the help sections but new pins and mods are ok but rarely interest me and would only be looked at when I had more time.   

 As for restorations again don't have the time for full restoration threads like I used to but now half the time I don't even know if anyone looks at them anymore?
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: RottyGuy on May 05, 2013, 02:14:05 PM
Perhaps threads which are non pinball related be prefixed with NPR (not pinball related) eg "NPR - my dog died". I've seen this done in other forums with great success



There is a non pinball discussion area already.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Slash on May 05, 2013, 02:17:13 PM
Well as a newbie to the forum I came here looking for technical help and also wanting to check out the trading section.  I have since really enjoyed the restoration threads and reading those have given me the confidence to think about doing one myself when I can find the right pin.  I wouldn't attempt it tho without knowing I could come back here throughout the process and pick the brains of the generous and experienced members who share their knowledge.

So when I login I check the trading section first then the restoration thread.

As for the General Section, let me start by saying what I don't like about Pinside (I will relate it back to this forum).  On pinside you have people that seem to want to be a celebrity amongst the forum, they have a character or persona that they seem to love to play. They thrive on being known.  Little men playing games on the internet if you ask me.  So I have to say I don't see Pinside as a very friendly site for people to post on as you get clowns that just rip into them for having a different opinion.  Similarly, people seem to talk down or completely ignore you if you don't have the same level of expertise or knowledge on  something when it comes to technical stuff and finding/fixing faults. It also seems very clicky  Fortunately I don't see much of this on here which is what has kept me logging in and checking the site out.  The General Section does suffer on the odd occasion from the above scenario, but nothing significant or continual which is good.

On a separate note I have to say as a newbie it took me so long to find all the sections on the forum.  I honestly posted in a section once then it took me ages to find it again next time I logged in.  there are so many sub forums, I started to try and count them once and I think I lost count after 30.  There were subforum inside subsections inside subsections.

But in summary I really like the forum and it would be a shame if people with a wealth of knowledge leave it.  Certainly from my selfish perspective as someone that wants to learn more, I would hate to see them go.  Even with all the new pins and progress happening in pinball, the fact is they always bloody breakdown and get hammered so we are always going to need good technical and restoration threads regardless of where Stern, JJP et al take the hobby.  So I hope this site can continue to be a wealth of knowledge in that area.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ausrhino on May 05, 2013, 04:07:32 PM
On a separate note I have to say as a newbie it took me so long to find all the sections on the forum.  I honestly posted in a section once then it took me ages to find it again next time I logged in.  there are so many sub forums, I started to try and count them once and I think I lost count after 30.  There were subforum inside subsections inside subsections.

Can't help but agree with this.  This site is unwordly with the amount of forums headers and sub forums it contains.  From a design perspective - this needs to be addressed.   I consider it to vast - it might be ok if you grew with it - but for a new comer - its too much to work out where everything is - and to find something again.  I mainly stick to the UNREAD section of the forum and tend to drift through the current updated topics that interest me.

I like the site - visit it almost daily - and it has been invaluable for me in entering this hobby.  Don't see an endemic problems on the site.  Not really sure why the site is at a crossroads????
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinball god on May 05, 2013, 11:19:35 PM
I was one to say if you don't like a topic don't read it, but also mentioned that there is too much nasty stuff too. The problem is I may like a topic in the beginning and really would like to see how it progresses but then find it turns into a slinging match between certain people. What I want I for those people to ignore each other and save me (and maybe others) the pain of having to bypass this stuff. Notice I'm not talking for others but sometimes self censorship doesn't work and I find myself frustrated getting shitty of the in fighting.

I truly believe the tech threads have come to a grinding halt. I seem to recall look in daily for a week or so and finding the same tech problem at the top with no new replies. Now I know this is not pinball. You can't own pinball and not have problems and I know we are all not experts (and now I'm talking for others  %.%). This also tells me that many of the  guys who used to give me great advise have gone. This is not healthy  *.*

Lets hope we can recover before its too late. If I'm wrong the worst that can happen is nothing  ^^^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pintoxicated on May 06, 2013, 08:24:57 AM
I was one to say if you don't like a topic don't read it, but also mentioned that there is too much nasty stuff too. The problem is I may like a topic in the beginning and really would like to see how it progresses but then find it turns into a slinging match between certain people. What I want I for those people to ignore each other and save me (and maybe others) the pain of having to bypass this stuff. Notice I'm not talking for others but sometimes self censorship doesn't work and I find myself frustrated getting shitty of the in fighting.

I truly believe the tech threads have come to a grinding halt. I seem to recall look in daily for a week or so and finding the same tech problem at the top with no new replies. Now I know this is not pinball. You can't own pinball and not have problems and I know we are all not experts (and now I'm talking for others  %.%). This also tells me that many of the  guys who used to give me great advise have gone. This is not healthy  *.*

Lets hope we can recover before its too late. If I'm wrong the worst that can happen is nothing  ^^^

Not too sure about this one.  When a tech type thread is raised e.g. Delarge's transformer thread at the moment, there is excellent help available.  On the other side of the coin, there may not be as many tech help type threads because the forum has been successful in that many of us can now fault find and repair the majority of issues that come up from time to time.  With the help of documents like the Pinrepair guides as well and the internet as a whole, there just isn't the need to ask for help with every fault with the machines.

When the need arises, there is always someone willing to step up to the plate to offer some guidance, God bless 'em.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: solar value on May 06, 2013, 09:27:29 AM
Hi All,

Nice discussion. From what I can gather from what people have posted so far it seems to me that the problem here is twofold:

1. Members who like posts relating to pinball restoration are finding it hard to access these without having to look through a whole lot of content unrelated to restorations.

2. Members who have been on here for some time are finding that this site no longer represents their interests and provides a sense of community around Pinball restoration.

If this is the case (we will have to ask those who have raised the concerns), then I think that Swinks' proposal of dividing the site into Old School and New School sections would be a good solution because it may overcome these two problems. Then, under these two main headings, a few clear and simple subheadings could be designed specifically to tailor to each "school". Having said that, I would hope that some of the older hands would, from time to time, chime in on "New School" topics, as their insights about new developments are often very interesting.

I also imagine that this would represent a major overhaul of the site and it might be difficult to organise the older content to fit the new format?

Cheers, SV.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Homepin on May 06, 2013, 09:43:36 AM
I never go looking at specific sections - I just click on "new posts since your last visit" and skip over things that either have a pathetic heading (such as "please help.." with NO description of the help wanted in the heading) or I don't feel interested in.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: dendoc on May 06, 2013, 09:59:42 AM
My 2 cents worth.

Newish to the forum, but think it's great as it is.

I can understand how it's changed over the years, as pinball has changed too. In the past, it was about keeping older machines alive, and you did have to be very technical to own games as they needed regular maintenance. Now, with Stern, JJP etc making new machines, you can but NIB and have years of relatively trouble free game playing. So the focus shifts.

After using the forum for a few months, found navigation quite easy, with the review to own posts tab very helpful. I don't think anything needs to change. I'm just sorry that we seem to have encountered the "generation gap" that happens in music, trends, clothing, TV and everything else, where "in my day, it wasn't like this" seems to be happening.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Ford Fairlane on May 06, 2013, 10:22:20 AM
yes there are threads that hold no interest for me such as WoZ and metallica which I just ignore. like all forums, there is a need for  ignoring the stuff that doesn't interest you and soak up the threads that are relevant to you.

I cant suggest any changes to the forum, rather, I just ask those awesome contributors who are not as active these days to "mark as read" the threads they feel are crap
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Retropin on May 06, 2013, 11:40:32 AM
Its not a question of "old school" and "new school".. its all pinball to me. I LIKE the fact that Stern picked up Wade and Dirty Donnys METALLICA and ran with it.. the shift to non photoshopped artwork is such a huge step in the right direction. Im not big on the band ( wish theyd done this with Rolling Stones).. but the pin?? Will be a cracker for sure and a huge seller.. im all for it!
Recently played Cow Corners XMen.. great game to play.. finish isnt what id like but game play is a blast.. so its not old Vs new.
Im all for well constructed opinions.. im all for the Mods ( we are the Mods..We are the mods!!).. its how the entity known as pinball progresses, but when i log onto a thread that i was following to find its been continually compared to how great another company would do it.. or how great this manufacturer is with jaded truths.. then the back up arguments.. the notifications of emails sent.. followed by the replies ( this is OK as it is actually SOMETHING).

Also...Its a pinball forum... PINBALL.. not a place to forgive the dead for past transgressions..

..This isnt facebook or Twitter.. i cant keep logging in here to fill my life with petty updates and trivia.. thats something i try to keep out of my life - ive no time for it.
In the past, ive made the mistake of trying to steer the forum back on track to "real" and factual posts which has led to a few online heated debates. In the interests of the forum ive have ceased doing this by steering clear.. noone wants to read it, but if im to be active, then i cant sit back and allow fantasy and propaganda to fill this forum..
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: RottyGuy on May 06, 2013, 02:44:31 PM
The forum works well how it is. As many people have already said, if you don't like the thread, don't read it.
I don't see why change is needed because one or two people throw a hissy fit and threaten to leave.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Freiherr on May 06, 2013, 03:46:20 PM
In summary, so long as people take the definition point 1 and not points 2 or 3 from the Oxford dictionary, then everyone will be happy:

Definition of forum

noun (plural forums)

1
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged:
we hope these pages act as a forum for debate
an Internet site where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings;
a message board.
2
chiefly North American a court or tribunal.

(plural fora /ˈfɔːrə/) (in an ancient Roman city) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinballheaven on May 06, 2013, 06:00:43 PM
In terms of the Forum, I would be one that sits in the background and reads members posts on an interest only basis.

I have been fortunate to learn many things from some very knowledgeable people and have also made some great friendships with some forum members. I have found that if I need help there is always someone to offer advice or assistance and in my opinion the current home page breaks down the many categories that one may be interested in.

In terms of perceived negativity, as with life, I engage with those that I can help and/or assist and appreciate the same afforded to me by people far more knowledgeable than I, but avoid people I perceive to be obnoxious or condescending in any way.

So for me the Forum provides a great resource and wealth of information with some funny and interesting interactions along the way.

I would like it to stay the way it is.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinball god on May 06, 2013, 06:50:07 PM
I can see this thread starting to deteriorate and go much the same way as many others.
yep.

Sorry if I contributed but still hold firm, there are elements that seem to be want to push points forever. If I seem to over step the mark or even get insulted I pull away and hope a thread gets back on track. Those I think are the problem aren't bad people, but like I said a long time ago, need to just settle down and dump the thread if people just don't get their point. You sometimes can't change people's opinions and should realize this and don't bother trying. Your friends know where you're coming from so stop stressing

Btw I'm just trying to explain how I see the problem and not pushing or offering a solution as honestly I do not believe there is one

I'd like an impartial person(s) to evaluate how this thread has moved way off from how to improve the site and point out those that have brought it back to the same problem. I'm happy to be found out if I have contributed and then will have a good hard look at myself. Thanks
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Freiherr on May 06, 2013, 07:17:16 PM
 <..>
What is the problem?who is pointing the finger?I just can't see it.Or are you talking about me?lol. %.%
+1

Maybe some posts get deleted before some members can read them.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 06, 2013, 07:38:44 PM
Yep. thread has gone astray

The original topic was about the direction this forum is headed

Now it is about trying to lay blame against a person/persons

This attitude has always destroyed forums, argue the issue, not the man
Playing personal politics will only send more members away
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Wotto on May 06, 2013, 09:36:14 PM
Well I will now enter the ( original ) or some of the original debated topics  I guess.....

On the restore threads / lack thereof etc……
I see it completely differently and we need to go back around 15 years in time for me to explain my thoughts.

A long time ago when the Internet was not as popular and no forums really existed other than RGP there were VERY few places to get info on machines, restorations , repairs and where to buy parts.
Then we all start to re-discover pinball / arcade stuff, we start to search the net , we all find each other and we start to communicate……….forums start and info starts to flow freely for years,  parts availability becomes more and more common and restorations begin…..all of a sudden we are all seeing games that were trash , reborn to BETTER than new states and we see this on many sites for years and years…….and we are all in AWE of all the methods and results.

Nowadays – it is commonplace to see games in perfect condition , restored and repaired with all new parts and there are parts available and mods available EVERYWHERE we turn, we ALL are now better educated and ALL know where to buy all the parts we require.
We are no longer ‘surprised or in awe’ of most restores as we all know how to achieve quite good results thanks to OUR community and OUR input in the past. We respect the GREAT restorations but just aren’t WOWED by the processes as much anymore.
Hence a general lack of interest in restoration ‘threads’ or pages anywhere much these days.


On the topic of the other rubbish that goes on .....


 I believe the hobby in Australia has degraded itself into a ‘lets nitpick the living f*ck out of everything on X new game and bag the hell out of it ( yes , guilty as charged with my thoughts on WOZ ) and on top of that it has become VERY much slanted with Stern lovers/ Haters and then the garbage follows.

Take a look at The Avengers thread just now – it is nearly as though people are laughing at the price it cant reach, personally I take that as a spit in the face and cant be bothered getting involved in the thread ( part of the issues here at AP ) , I have an Avengers as does a good mate of mine …..its a F*CKING hard players game to get through with bloody tough shots that you have to nail precisecly to progress – it is a tough CHALLENGE, at the same time I acknowledge it is made very cheaply ( physically ) but that’s all fixable and the game will be fine once that’s sorted. I like it , I own it and it will be around for a while. I couldnt give a rats toss if he likes it and she doesnt etc etc - the fatc is I like the game ( as some WOZ ownere will say to me as well ) and that SHOULD be all that counts.......but we seem to want to be able to find ANY fault , no matter how small in any of the new games and rubbish the f*ck out of any of the owners for it.........hell, people are ALREADY looking for bad things in the Metallica videos FFS.
Our hobby has become a JOKE in this regard and hence some of us 'cant be bothered' inputting anything any longer.




So .......due to our massive inputs of assistance to our fellow pinheads in the past decade, we are all now responsible for a lesser interest or lesser need to use threads for restoration advice and at the same time we are all somewhat guilty of rubbishing new games for the hell of it and causing angst in some threads.


A good mate of mine who was a collector LONG before the Internet existed , told me when I bought my 2nd game that there is a lot of jealousy , personal attacks and small minded people in the hobby who will stab you ……..that was over 15 years ago and nothing has really changed. There is NO answer and it will continue as long as pinball exists – anyone who expects anything different is kidding themselves unfortunately as the ‘rubbish’ is , for some unexplainable reason, a part of our hobby that we cant seem to get rid of.

Just my thoughts
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Strangeways on May 07, 2013, 12:46:57 AM

As one of the mods I've kept my distance so all can have a say within the guidelines of the OP ;

"There is just one rule - members are asked as an Administrator direction not to argue against the suggestions of others."

Nick and I are taking this topic VERY seriously. We want to KNOW the direction the site should be going and nothing else. For those that don't want to participate, that is fine - no problems. Go straight to another thread / topic. We are looking for constructive criticisms or suggestions / recommendations on the DIRECTION of Aussie Pinball. PLEASE remember that when posting !

Please follow the OP. We are here to listen GOING FORWARD.  ^^^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 07, 2013, 12:58:41 AM
Nino, why have constructive posts by multiple members just been deleted and targeted specifically. ?

That un-neccesary and un-needed selective censorship has turned the thread into a lie.

People were working their differences out which is what will make the forum move forward.

You should put it all back, otherwise its just rigged n worthless.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Strangeways on May 07, 2013, 01:13:52 AM
Nino, why have constructive posts by multiple members just been deleted and targeted specifically. ?

That un-neccesary and un-needed selective censorship has turned the thread into a lie.

People were working their differences out which is what will make the forum move forward.

You should put it all back, otherwise its just rigged n worthless.

Brett, please refer to the OP. This is not a thread for members to air their dirty laundry. It is a CONSTRUCTIVE thread to discuss the future of AP (if there is one)..

Moved posts with NEW topics ;

1 - Set the correct AP time - http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10625.0 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10625.0)
2 - Embedding Youtube Video within posts - http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10627.0 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10627.0)

ALL off topic banter from SEVERAL MEMBERS was archived. It was off topic. ALL members have been invited to comment within the guidelines on the OP. They can be returned at a click of a button, but they are OFF TOPIC.

"We are not wanting anyone "shot down" by members posting negatives or wanting to argue points, or reply against the thoughts of others. If you do not like or agree with a comment, then ignore it. If you are in support of a comment, post your support."

I don't see how the thread can be "rigged" when it was NOT adhering to the thread topic.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Slash on May 07, 2013, 01:21:49 AM


 I believe the hobby in Australia has degraded itself into a ‘lets nitpick the living f*ck out of everything on X new game and bag the hell out of it ( yes , guilty as charged with my thoughts on WOZ ) and on top of that it has become VERY much slanted with Stern lovers/ Haters and then the garbage follows.


Sadly this mindset isn't unique to this forum or even pinball in general.  I post on a number of other forums (non pinball related) and this type of attitude is prevalent with a percentage of posters. I catch myself engaging in it sometims. People just love to bitch and moan and the Internet nowadays makes it really easy. People seem to be more inclined to be quite forthright about what they don't like and seek a platform to express that opinion compared to seeking a medium to express a good experience or intention about something.

I think a good analogy is having a bad experience with something, say a meal at a restaurant, and apparently we on average will tell say 5-10 people.  But if we have a good experience we will only tell a couple of people. It appears to be human nature to say what we don't like more freely and seek out a platform to do so. But if we have a positve experience or like something we are less likely to express it. This situation appears to hold true for pinball too.

I guess the challenge is to work out how to make sure that this differing of opinion on one aspect doesn't cross contaminate other productive sections of the forum.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 07, 2013, 01:22:53 AM
Nino, I say its a sham. Its a lie. Its discrimination as usual. (and I don't understand what a OP is and half of your original post on the first page by the way, its confusing).
You kept all your personal member friends posts but removed the majority of mine. Ofcourse.
People were working out their differences.

Selective censorship and selective post deletion = blatant favouritism and blatant discrimination.

You don't want a democracy on here, you want a dictatorship. The above proves it.
Leave this post untouched for a week to show your democracy forum !
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Crashramp on May 07, 2013, 11:28:42 AM
Nino, I say its a sham. Its a lie. Its discrimination as usual. (and I don't understand what a OP is and half of your original post on the first page by the way, its confusing).
You kept all your personal member friends posts but removed the majority of mine. Ofcourse.
People were working out their differences.

Selective censorship and selective post deletion = blatant favouritism and blatant discrimination.

You don't want a democracy on here, you want a dictatorship. The above proves it.
Leave this post untouched for a week to show your democracy forum !


I don't want to get involved but I don't want to read this.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 07, 2013, 08:17:03 PM
This is not the first forum that the question posed in the OP has come up

You have the original group, the pioneers, the ones that had to learn through trial and error, who are justifiably pleased with what they accomplished

Then the hobby becomes more mainstream, things that took a home hobbyist time to make/build are available to buy off a shelf
And when the hobby becomes mainstream, more people get involved, they take the pioneers achievements for granted and ask 'What is next?'


Everyone here loves pinball, and we can continue to enjoy this marvelous hobby in any way that suits each person, but the site needs to move with the times
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: elkor-alish on May 07, 2013, 10:49:35 PM
I think the sites content is fine, it's all pinball and I love it, even with the few serial posters. They generate discussion and keep the site ticking along when others don't have much to say.
The thing is, that it's hard to come up with new original topics for discussion, there is only so much you can say about pinball before you start repeating yourself.
If you don't think a thread will interest you then don't read it, very simple.
There are many, many posts that I don't read as I'm just not that interested in the topic.

I think the layout of the site could be a little better though.
Sometimes it's hard to find where to post much less find a thread you might be looking for.

I agree with some other comments, it would be good to see more tech related threads and more restos but I'm just happy there are any at all.
 
More smileys :)
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 08, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
The future of Aussie pinball should be a place where everyone gets along and focuses on making the site fun like its always been.
I have taken peoples criticism onboard, there is not much more to do except to keep the site flowing along with positive stuff.

People like myself and Swinksy, who post a lot and open a lot of threads, do so to make the place a bit interesting and entertaining when not much is happening.
I thought I was doing a good thing by making a big effort and doing threads to keep some content up to the site when little was being posted.
I am sure Swinksy feels the same about all of the content he has also added.
The tech threads I do read, they inform me, but they dont entertain me. Stuff about Metallica, or Sterns latest pinball, or a discussion thread about Wizard of OZ or the new Colour DMD displays etc, entertain me. I always thought, all this activity, posting these threads would help the site, not hinder it, cause I thought people would just skip over it if it didn't interest them. It had nothing to do with big noting, it had to do with trying to add value when the site was very quiet.

Anyway, my hope for the site is we all get along, move on from the past, read what we want, don't read what we don't, and for censorship to stay to a minimum, because I reckon as adults, we can all politely sort our differences out from now on.
The site is great already. I am hoping that by leaving the layout the same way it is now, will keep it great. Either way, as long as people are having fun on here, that's all that matters. Long live Pinball.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 08, 2013, 03:45:57 PM
Nobody has a problem with Swinks  (except for my autocorrect)
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: studley67 on May 08, 2013, 04:30:03 PM
So this thread has died.So what is the future direction of the administrators as to the sites future. ^&^
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Freiherr on May 08, 2013, 04:56:12 PM
So this thread has died.So what is the future direction of the administrators as to the sites future. ^&^

Whatever future direction or outcome, we all have choices nd there is a lot on www.  This site is good for now.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: studley67 on May 08, 2013, 04:59:19 PM
please correct spelling.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: studley67 on May 08, 2013, 05:12:26 PM
With nino now involved in his "australian pinball restorations" and nick with medical problems.I think this is all about the comitment to keep this forum going,ie mods time and input.Plus the expense of server storage and ongoing costs ascosiated with running a hugely succesfull forum.I think the administration need to come clean with their intentions,and desires for moving forward,and hope it does not offend too many members.
My 2 bobs worth.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: studley67 on May 08, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
The future of Aussie pinball should be a place where everyone gets along and focuses on making the site fun like its always been.
I have taken peoples criticism onboard, there is not much more to do except to keep the site flowing along with positive stuff.

People like myself and Swinksy, who post a lot and open a lot of threads, do so to make the place a bit interesting and entertaining when not much is happening.
I thought I was doing a good thing by making a big effort and doing threads to keep some content up to the site when little was being posted.
I am sure Swinksy feels the same about all of the content he has also added.
The tech threads I do read, they inform me, but they dont entertain me. Stuff about Metallica, or Sterns latest pinball, or a discussion thread about Wizard of OZ or the new Colour DMD displays etc, entertain me. I always thought, all this activity, posting these threads would help the site, not hinder it, cause I thought people would just skip over it if it didn't interest them. It had nothing to do with big noting, it had to do with trying to add value when the site was very quiet.

Anyway, my hope for the site is we all get along, move on from the past, read what we want, don't read what we don't, and for censorship to stay to a minimum, because I reckon as adults, we can all politely sort our differences out from now on.
The site is great already. I am hoping that by leaving the layout the same way it is now, will keep it great. Either way, as long as people are having fun on here, that's all that matters. Long live Pinball.

i couldn't have said it better.+1
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Strangeways on May 08, 2013, 07:32:11 PM
With nino now involved in his "australian pinball restorations" and nick with medical problems.I think this is all about the comitment to keep this forum going,ie mods time and input.Plus the expense of server storage and ongoing costs ascosiated with running a hugely succesfull forum.I think the administration need to come clean with their intentions,and desires for moving forward,and hope it does not offend too many members.
My 2 bobs worth.

The intention is CLEARLY stated here - http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10612.0 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10612.0) - please refer to the OP !
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 08, 2013, 07:48:58 PM
I as others are probably curious of what your thoughts are Admin (assuming collective for Nino / Nick) of what has been said so far, agree, disagree, confirmed your desires "As administrators, we personally would rather see one good restoration thread than ten opinions on the latest and greatest."

Interested to hear your take on peoples ideas are so far ????, as it may encourage some re-fined discussion.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Strangeways on May 08, 2013, 09:15:58 PM
I as others are probably curious of what your thoughts are Admin (assuming collective for Nino / Nick) of what has been said so far, agree, disagree, confirmed your desires "As administrators, we personally would rather see one good restoration thread than ten opinions on the latest and greatest."

Interested to hear your take on peoples ideas are so far ????, as it may encourage some re-fined discussion.

No problems, Jady. There's nothing to hide.

We are collating the responses that are adhering to the OP. Unfortunately, the thread start to go off topic and we had to clean it up (twice). It was never intended to be a running commentary based on any individuals. It should be based on individual's comments regarding the OP.

What I (as admin, hobbyist, collector etc etc) cannot understand, is that I've said, "from Day 1" - "The forum is only as good as its members" - "We" as "admins and owners" are asking for input and feedback on the site content and which direction should we grow into (if any). Some REALLY helpful responses indicated that we "older guys" are more into restorations, and the amount of info that was available in 2008, is basically common knowledge - making the OLDER "school of thought" redundant. Cool - THAT'S what we want to know.. We are asking YOU (The forum is only as good as its members) to help US.

Wotto was one of the restoration pioneers in this country. I've know him a long time. His shift has been from one of the best restorers, to a "player" - that has others restore his games for him. He liked old school machines, he now loves DMDs and particularly Sterns. I know Wotto VERY well. So I know his situation - but I / WE don't know OTHER member's situations.

Other comments - "it ain't broke, so don't fix it"  %.%

That's a PRIME example of what we want to take note of. That is following the OP, and that's the kind of info we want to KNOW.

In my old "professional life", we did a company survey every year as part of "Best Practices" - to find out information that would help ASSIST EVERYONE. All this thread was supposed to do is find areas where the FORUM was lacking. Not people's opinions on each other, or opinions on our moderation style. If we wanted to know that, we would have asked. in all honesty, if anyone does not like the way we moderate or admin the site, then do what we did and start your own Forum !

Suggestions that we "have already decided", and other weird theories are simply not based on the facts. As to "what" we have decided when we have CLEARLY ASKED members their opinion is just bizarre and paranoia. Many have clearly understood the OP, and have answered as requested.  Those comments will assist us greatly for our attempt to improve AP.

What we DO KNOW, is several members have decided to leave AP, or not contribute as actively as they did in the past. We want to know if it is because of the forum direction - which for the last 2 years, has changed. Maybe the Forum has not changed with the times ? The software is circa 2008 ! Maybe this forum DICTATED the hobby for a while, but that is no longer the case ?

What has not changed is the forum Software. This is now a MASSIVE undertaking that has to be outsourced. There are technical challenges ahead that have risks associated and costs involved. Is it worth it if members are leaving or don't want to participate ?

Then there is my obvious "conflict of interest" - as one of the originators of AP, as the biggest spammer on AP, as a Commercial Business on AP. Is this "arrangement" affecting AP ? Is it time for me to move on ? As some are aware, the hours Nick and I put into the running of the site are massive.

We ask ourselves ;

Is this worth the effort - Should we just forget about it and shut shop. Is the site redundant ?
Are people still enjoying AP as they did 2 - 3 years ago. Should we go back to our roots ?
Should we be investing MORE sections into the NEW manufacturers / Stern / JJP ?
Should we spend the time and money updating the forum, which will bear additional costs and an increase in a Commercial Presence (which history has shown does not necessarily work).


It is all about improvement or "lack of" improvement (you tell us). For some reason, some responses are just way off topic. This is no Spanish Inquisition ! It is about SELF IMPROVEMENT. How can WE make the FORUM better ?

There are a lot of questions that can be answered by reading the OP, and answering the questions without pointing fingers. If a member does not want to contribute - that's ok ! But admins will continue to archive comments that are not complying / adhering with our request.

I don't know what else to say. It is that simple !
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 08, 2013, 10:10:27 PM
You ask for feedback, but say you only want certain types of feedback.
Whats the point if people are muzzled. It seems like a complete waste of time to me. Still confused as to what you are asking for, as others have alluded to ?

I think you should be interested in what people think about the moderation, or un-necessary moderation. That also affects the future of the site.
I mean, you dont want to be surrounded by YES MEN do you ? Nothing grows without honest, unmuzzled feedback.
I suggested months ago via PM, to send out a anonymous feedback email for people to send back in anonymously if u really wanted the truth.
I just don't think you can ask for feedback, then tell people what feedback they are allowed, or not allowed to post/send in. Does that make sense ?

The stats page shows we have more members joining every month than ever, 50, 70, 90 members joining each month. The site should be focusing on the new members, not a handful who have left...just saying.

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=stats

The forum will be fine, as long as the basic changes are made, that everyone has already asked for/if any.
We all love this site. Hopefully the focus is on the future and not the past.
Then its all FUN. I am sure every member will work towards that.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 08, 2013, 10:33:50 PM
Thanks Nino for taking the time sharing an update and some more depth to the intersection at the crossroads that you guys are at.

So better understanding here are some of my refined ideas, thoughts and feelings:
- I do not have the time unfortunately to do restorations though would dearly love to (2 young children demand my time)
- I have 2 pins that don't have much to be done on them except play and personalise them hence my passion for mods as I view it as adding your own personality to a stock standard game - just like a car, a house - adding your touch. This well may change when I have time to restore a pin and I go through the motions of restoring a game to it's original condition
- What I have found tiring on the forum the last 6 months is the personal comments against various people - like being back at school and is just a turn off. I also not a fan of the short one liner zero substance posts in some threads - personal thing.
- What I like in the beginning 2 years ago when I started reading and posting was getting the help from unknown enthusiasts willing to help a fellow pinballer. I do believe this has dropped off, as for a reason I can't answer that - that's for the guys that use to answer and help. But sure people life's priorities change and you can't always give of your time for what ever the reason.
- From a neutral observation, I like that I can select what new threads to read by the title and the group it is from so I can skip it and read it.
- As for software, very happy with the 15 recent posts, can almost cover an average day of forum activity, maybe bump up to 25 most recent posts but this was a welcome change from the recent 5 post option a little while ago
- bad thing about the software is the search function isn't very successful but hence the more groups created helped steer people into a category of threads they are searching which helps, so once you learn the site it is good

Overall AP is a good site, and I am known for posting new news from pinside which may annoy the crap for some but I do it as feel some people enjoy just as much as I do. But for me when I go to pinside I am lucky to look at 1% of threads on a daily basis and only read things that catch my eye. But if it is preferred I can stop with those posts.

In addition it does sound like alot effort and cost to keep this going and only a passion / desire ensures this will continue which is really left to you guys. If your loosing the motivation it then sadly it affects us all but that is up you and we need to respect that as nothing worse than doing something if it is a drag or a chore to do.

Hope this helps

Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 08, 2013, 10:53:39 PM
+ 1 swinks comments

I have donated money to the forum in the past a number of times and was happy to do so. It used to appear near our Avatar names but after a site software upgrade it disappeared ?
If the forum would appreciate some more resources $$$, I am sure a thread asking for assistance would have every member, man n his dog lined up to help. Would this help you.

Also, make Swinks and say someone like Retropin or Homepin moderators, and why don't Nino and Nick take a trial break for 3 months only, or pick your own moderators.? Maybe a fresh look from that point of view might be good as a trial ? give the current mods a short rest...Cant hurt to try....
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Replay on May 08, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Some of us don't have time to copy and paste 20 times consecutively
And keep starting threads non stop

Maybe management needs to get some others on board to help
Manage the incoming content, big job for two people and as
Stated the site keeps growing.. And so is pinball and the interest
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 08, 2013, 11:25:47 PM
thanks for the +1 cavey but I am the moderator for the mods section already but in all honesty that has been run fairly smoothly due to the it being a more factual section rather than the emotions that exist more in the general discussion section.

Don't know if that was a dig at me Replay, but as for the copy and paste, yes guilty for doing it but hey apart from resto's and opinions we all have repeated something we have heard, read or seen. I just like to keep it in context and quote it, and not strip and reword as if it was my creation - so just keeping it honest to the originator, I just don't read many threads apart from a handful of late - metallica, spooky, predator, creature hologram options and then just play more pinball. I remember 2 years ago when I got my first pin and I got on the forum and said look at these guys on the forum 24/7 and not playing pinball and I thought they were crazy. I became one of them so now I want to get back to the fun side of things and treat the forum as more of a relaxing read at smoko, a great resource for fixups and also see if I can assist helping someone else.

In addition to Cavey's suggestion and my place in life at the moment, I want to spend more time with my growing family, start a bit of a dream project and have a possible on the side business venture that will incorporate pinball into part (which I will share in good time) of it so something has to give and that will be time spent here unfortunately, will still pop in for a read and post but limit to a quick 1/4 to 1/2 hour most days with far less copy and paste - insert "thank god" here for some.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pop Bumper Pete on May 09, 2013, 07:46:19 AM
Nino, if it is going to be too costly to upgrade the forum , con cider archiving what exists and starting fresh
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Homepin on May 09, 2013, 10:24:02 AM
This not being able to edit posts is REALLY pissing me off!!!!!!

I am a stickler for correct spelling and punctuation so, when I make a typo etc, I want to be able to correct that.

To be frank - this will prevent me from bothering to post much as it annoys me so much.....
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ktm450 on May 09, 2013, 10:35:29 AM
This not being able to edit posts is REALLY pissing me off!!!!!!

I am a stickler for correct spelling and punctuation so, when I make a typo etc, I want to be able to correct that.

To be frank - this will prevent me from bothering to post much as it annoys me so much.....

That annoys me too Mike, but I can understand why it was implemented, when someone posts an opinion that starts a debate or arguement, then the person goes back and changes their initial comment it loses all its context, and that shits me way more.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ktm450 on May 09, 2013, 10:41:32 AM

Overall AP is a good site, and I am known for posting new news from pinside which may annoy the crap for some but I do it as feel some people enjoy just as much as I do. But for me when I go to pinside I am lucky to look at 1% of threads on a daily basis and only read things that catch my eye. But if it is preferred I can stop with those posts.


I like the fact that you post stuff here from wherever, I do not have enough time to look at any other forums regularly so it keeps me up to date without having to find the info myself, if I don't like a topic I skip past it.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: goodolddays on May 09, 2013, 11:13:11 AM
I like the fact that you post stuff here from wherever, I do not have enough time to look at any other forums regularly so it keeps me up to date without having to find the info myself, if I don't like a topic I skip past it.

+1 .. can't see any harm in it myself , and as Swinksy said, better to paste what the poster said rather than editing it
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinnies4me on May 09, 2013, 11:21:31 AM
I like the fact that you post stuff here from wherever, I do not have enough time to look at any other forums regularly so it keeps me up to date without having to find the info myself, if I don't like a topic I skip past it.

+1 .. can't see any harm in it myself , and as Swinksy said, better to paste what the poster said rather than editing it

100% agree - I don't have time to read all forums, and really appreciate the stuff you post Swinks.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: pinnies4me on May 09, 2013, 11:22:37 AM

That annoys me too Mike, but I can understand why it was implemented, when someone posts an opinion that starts a debate or arguement, then the person goes back and changes their initial comment it loses all its context, and that shits me way more.


it wasn't implemented for that reason, but that might be seen as a useful byproduct.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: ktm450 on May 09, 2013, 11:28:09 AM
Back on topic

What we DO KNOW, is several members have decided to leave AP, or not contribute as actively as they did in the past. We want to know if it is because of the forum direction - which for the last 2 years, has changed. Maybe the Forum has not changed with the times ? The software is circa 2008 ! Maybe this forum DICTATED the hobby for a while, but that is no longer the case ?

I sure hope those members that are still floating around discuss this, I have talked to a couple but wont go into their reasons so I dont incriminate anyone here



What has not changed is the forum Software. This is now a MASSIVE undertaking that has to be outsourced. There are technical challenges ahead that have risks associated and costs involved. Is it worth it if members are leaving or don't want to participate ?

I dont find this an issue, it works, not worth the trouble of updating, unless there are real tangible benifits.  Especially if members are leaving


Then there is my obvious "conflict of interest" - as one of the originators of AP, as the biggest spammer on AP, as a Commercial Business on AP. Is this "arrangement" affecting AP ? Is it time for me to move on ? As some are aware, the hours Nick and I put into the running of the site are massive.

I don't have a problem with this, other forums have people running businesses inside, we are not getting bombarded by advertisement of your business, other people also run businesses inside the forum, and all are free to advertise a website link on our home page for free, something that you have not even done.  I see you always supporting people to have a go themselves, never have you suggested they send it to you so you can profit from an issue they have.

Is this worth the effort - Should we just forget about it and shut shop. Is the site redundant ?

It is definately worth the effort, I think despite a few of our differences we can all get something out of this site

Are people still enjoying AP as they did 2 - 3 years ago. Should we go back to our roots ?

Honestly I am not enjoying the site as much as I did 4-5 years ago, it would be nice to go back to our roots, but I can't see how that would be possible, as it would alienate some people


Should we be investing MORE sections into the NEW manufacturers / Stern / JJP ?

Definately not, there is plenty of info out there for the new guys, sure single threads on discussions about new games is fine, but this is a restorers site, I find bombardment of all things Stern a real turn off



Aussie Pinball is still good but it was great.

Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Caveoftreasures on May 09, 2013, 12:42:44 PM
What I like about Aussie Pinball, is the fact that its a PINBALL site, not a restore only site.
The fact that the forum encompasses ALL THINGS pinball, and not just restores is what makes the site great.
You only have to look at the stats page to see that there are many many things with 5 times the views than only restores.
I reckon the site has gone from good to great because of this. Massive increase in new member numbers each month and
the amount of posts has risen to a very high level in all categories every month for the past few years.

The site is now a PINBALL site, not just a restore site imo. The site has moved with the times which is smart.
It still all gets back to the popular and accepted attitude, if you dont like a thread or post don't read it.
Theres a great section to read here on AP for everyone and anyone. Adding more sections would not be good.
I thought each n every area of the pinball industry was covered exceptionally well already.

Is the site going to start the donation thing again which was a great idea when it was around in previous times ?

What about if the site held a competition every month or two. Say a member, or members donated a new Stern translate, or something else for older games, and the best gamesroom photo posted won a prize ? something fun to get new members posting ? too many people as guests everyday (looks like guests make up apx 70 percent of logged in users). Something fun to encourage new members to post. Anyone else got any good fun ideas for the site ????
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Pauly540 on May 12, 2013, 10:59:05 PM
I can’t help myself; I have to speak up for all the novices, like myself. Sorry for the rant!
Being a 40+ Englishman (no pins where I grew up), I stumbled across pinball only a couple of years ago. Buying my first EM pin, I spent many hours googling for pointers on repairs, most were from American web sites, but then I stumbled across AP. Going back through old posts late as 2008, I learnt heaps and finally got her working.
I don’t remember all the names of the member’s posts, but reading through the treads, these members answered many (maybe stupid novice) questions with help and assistance, as far as I know, that was the whole point of having a forum, to help and assist others passionate about this hobby.
Working on Poker machines for the last 20+ years (board jockey in the early days), I finally learnt to diagnose common faults (sometimes as simple as a 20 cent component  replacement)  and then made sure, all the other technicians were notified of these simple ‘on-site’ component changes, would not turn them into ‘board jockeys’). Passing on knowledge!  If certain members with many years of pinball knowledge are leaving, this will be a hugh loss and can I ask, if they are not contributing knowledge anymore, how are we novices going to learn and bring back to life a pin 30+ years old? Please don’t take that knowledge to your grave!
Website software upgrades. I know nothing, so I won’t comment. I fully understand this site has to be funded somehow! I still don’t understand how posts with images can be made onto severs (storage) and who pays for this? It’s a pig of a job posting pic’s sometimes, but persistence prevails.  I’m happy with the current layout. I just click on the relevant topics I’m searching for. Discussions on new pinball’s, I just ignore sometimes, as I have no chance of every owning one, but is sometimes an interesting to read.
Don’t spit on your screen, but I am also a member on AA and the only option to upload many (200kb+) images, is to make a donation. I instantly made my donation, as I wanted to share any knowledge I might have learnt. Great info on AA, but I prefer AP, as I am only into Pinball.
Maybe you should, follow this line, even if every member makes a $5 donation once a year, pittance.
Now a perfect example of someone sharing knowledge. Tonight I posted a question on GTB SYS80 PSU and Homepin (Yes I know he is a sponsor) replied within 15 mins, with an answer. He never asked that I send him the board for repair; he pointed me in the right direction with his knowledge.
Hope everyone reading this, (especially the ones with the negative comments) remembers there is a new batch of younger (40+  ^&^) members would be lost without the wealth of information on this site.
That’s my 1 pence worth.
Cheers,
Paul.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Replay on May 12, 2013, 11:30:54 PM
Well said/ written
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: greenechidna on May 13, 2013, 02:10:53 AM
Quote:
"We originally created this forum because there was (and is) no other real place in Australia for people with genuine passion for the history of the game to swap information, restoration and technical help."

As someone who decided less than a year ago he wanted an EM or two these forums have:

*Given me ample ground floor advice on what to look for and what to avoid in an old machine

*soothed initial fears that I would end up with a dead machine that I couldn't fix.

* put me in touch with tech help in my local area

* assisted me to obtain parts from overseas

* put me onto Pinfest

*given me confidence to consider having a go at restoration as well as freely supply detailed knowledge on every little thing

* given me the opportunity to pick up some beautifully restored machines that have significant nostalgic value to me

* listened to me waffling on about my childhood

* made me feel included as part of a community

* gave me the confidence to recommend the hobby to others as something fun, satisfying and challenging

*ensured that at least one room in my house is chock a block full of E/Ms  $#$

*encouraged me to spend thousands of dollars within the industry with the view of spending thousands more  :D

Like many others have said, if I don't find the thread interesting, I move on. Most content here is worth a browse at least and is legible, literate and  informed. It's really nice to see that when someone here needs something, whether advice or bits and pieces, it's usually given freely and in the spirit of getting yet another old shitbox off the scrapheap and back where it belongs in the gamesroom.

APA is a huge asset to pinball. Do whatever is necessary to keep it that way.
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 14, 2013, 08:14:46 AM
It just dawned on me a option that may suit everyone, but maybe a software limitation. This is a feature on pinside that is great for filtering the way they list all their threads. Yes I know something from another site but just an idea that could lead to something.

Have the same site layout but on one of the sides have an option list as per attached file but with the categories to suit AP. So if the guys only interested in the for sale section and the restoration section only - only the threads for those areas appear. This could be even be a profile setting so when you log on that is all that appears.

just a idea, don't shoot me  *.*
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Freiherr on May 14, 2013, 08:24:31 AM
I already suggested that idea but it got shifted to another thread.

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=10625.msg139274#msg139274
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: swinks on May 14, 2013, 08:29:36 AM
so you did Freiherr, great idea, so shoot him if you don't like the idea  **&   %.%  kidding
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: johnwartjr on May 20, 2013, 12:35:32 PM
I don't spend as much time here as I used to. I'm not your target demographic, but I'm grateful that the site is here, and I enjoy it.

Old school pinballers are disappearing everywhere, not just here.

Not everyone picks up a hobby for life. Sometimes, their interests shift. Now, if you know certain people still enjoy pinball, but participate at other sites and no longer here, perhaps you could ask them why.

My personal collection is half the size it was 5 years ago. Had 3 kids, lost a job, got a new job.

There are a lot of aspects of pinball today that don't interest me. I enjoy wrenching and restoring, making a worn out machine look and play like new. Sterns don't interest me, because they don't need anything I have to offer. I think LEDs and non-original finishes (powder, chrome where it wasn't original, brass, etc) are awful and make machines look like poo. I have no interest in machines themed after musical groups or superheroes, with the exception of GNR. But, I have no problem with the hobby evolving and people who enjoy those sorts of things enjoying them. I imagine the people who absolutely adored EMs and understand them like the back of their hands thought the hobby was going a strange direction when SS games started rolling out.

I'll support the site regardless of what direction it takes, and enjoy it. Thanks for keeping it going!
Title: Re: The Future Direction of Aussie Pinball
Post by: Strangeways on May 20, 2013, 03:36:57 PM

Thanks for all the input from ALL members. When Nick recovers we will sit down and go through the suggestions. I've locked the thread as it has served its purpose.

I've split the last few comments so they can be discussed as part of their own thread - if need be. I have locked the thread - but if members want to discuss issues that may have been brought up, just let me know and I'll split off into it's own thread  ^^^

What we will be doing is looking at a site software upgrade or change of platform  ^^^