The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Member Services => Sales and Services => Infinity Amusements => Topic started by: soundasleep on September 06, 2013, 09:24:25 PM
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Good evening Aussie Pinball Arcade peoples!
I friend of mine who is a regular on this forum suggested that I come across and let you guys know what we are up to. I hope this is the right place to post, if not my apologies and hopefully the mods can kick it across to the right spot.
My name is Sana and along with my business party Mark we have just launched "Infinity Amusements" up at Microsoft's TechEd 2013 event on the Gold Coast. Who are we? And what has this got to do with pinball?
Over the last 2 years as a pet project on week nights and weekends, Mark has fully restored a trashed "Funhouse" (1990?) cabinet (just the cabinet) and turned it into one hell of a video pin (and amazingly enough he is still married afterwards ;). He took it to PAX Australia (which is where I first saw it) and the response was phenomenal. Every person who played it loved it, and several of them asked where they could buy one.
That's when the light bulb in my head went off. I've got a bit of an engineering background (self taught) so I went through his cab with a fine tooth comb and redesigned it to be a practical "retail product". I worked out all the necessarily components, found suppliers, sketched up how the cabinet would need to be built, costed it up, found a cabinet maker (waves to ArcadeWorX) and the final result is this:
http://igg.me/at/infinitypinball/x/3576391
(Yes, that is a referral link but all it does is let me track who comes from where)
We had quite a few people at TechEd show some serious interest, so now we are just waiting for them to go home and discuss it with their significant other and hopefully we'll start getting some orders over the next few days.
My mate tells me that many people here have either built or thought about building video pins, so we figured it was something you guys would like to know about. I apologises if this is a bit "spammy" but we both figured there might be some people here who have always wanted one, but just don't have the time, patience, or skill (or combination there-of) to do it themselves.
So that's it :) What do you guys think?
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Welcome to AP. I will definitely pledge my support. I think its great and am happy to help support your cause to keep pinball alive. I am sure the members on here will give you some honest and at times brutal feedback, but it will be honest. Good luck with it all and I hope it gets off the ground.
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interesting !@#.but not really pinball
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Funny you should say that. We had several people come up to us during TechEd having noticed the cabinet from a distance and then when they saw the LCD screens would make comments like "Sacrilege!".
Yet everybody who played it, enjoyed it. For us that's what really matters :)
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i am sure i would also enjoy it. ^^^ if i could chose from multiple games.plus the starting price is attractive.
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We were running PinballFX2 for all of TechEd and they have about 30 odd tables, though they are more on the video game side of things. We plan to have about 6 of their tables pre-installed, working out those particulars now.
The Arcade Pinball should get released on Steam next month and they do virtual versions of the real tables (Twilight Zone, Medieval Madness, T2, etc). Unfortunately neither currently support cabinet mode as yet though Zen said PinballFX2 will get it "in the future".
Have you seen the Kickstarter for "Pro Pinball: Timeshock!"? That's supports all three screens and we will be providing that one included. The only trick there is they will be ready by Dec and we will be ready a bit more so we will send out codes once its available.
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I like what you are doing, I would be interested but for me the price is a little high...
I wrote to pinball arcade a few weeks ago and there soon will be a update for all tables to be adjusted for cabinet view I think when the PS4 is released.
Is the cabinet a standard width?
Will you be doing all cabinets in MDF?
Will you be offering Timeshock cabinet decals / translite?
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Welcome and thanks for posting.
I think it's a great idea and proposition. You guys have put a nice detailed brief down that shows what the platform is capable of. I like how it could be used as a jukebox and other uses. I'd be keen to see how the product looks and operates once you have churned a few out before seriously considering it. Good luck with it.
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All that experience and knowledge and you guys don't have $7k?
Seems odd.
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I do need to retract one statement, that being I thought the finished item was $7k, sorry I should of read all the info carefully, so for $5k for a entry level full size cabinet is not too bad, does it come with the regular Bally / WMS lock down bar and trim
I agree with spacies it seems a little odd to raise $7k to launch off, why not just start selling direct now, is Indiegogo like Kickstarter when no money is taken unless the project is successful in raising the $7k.
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I agree with spacies it seems a little odd to raise $7k to launch off, why not just start selling direct now, is Indiegogo like Kickstarter when no money is taken unless the project is successful in raising the $7k.
Basically the situation goes like this:
We need the $7k in order to build a "to specification" prototype of both the Mini and the Omega so we can iron out last minute bugs before we start building them for customers. Mark has already thrown so much money at his cab his wife won't let him throw anymore in, and personally I'm in the "hand-to-month" situation - thus the lack of funds to start up.
By using IndieGoGo to take pre-orders we ensure we have a market first. Then we build, take second deposits, build the customers unit, and final sale. TechEd will hopefully have given us the exposure to get our first few customers and off we go.
Having said all of that it looks like we should have a silent backer on board so that we can begin prototyping this week and we meet up with ArcadeWorX on Monday to finalize the cabinet design.
I wrote to pinball arcade a few weeks ago and there soon will be a update for all tables to be adjusted for cabinet view I think when the PS4 is released.
I certainly hope so, but since the software itself isn't out of Beta yet I'm not holding my breathe ;)
Is the cabinet a standard width?
Will you be doing all cabinets in MDF?
Will you be offering Timeshock cabinet decals / translite?
1. The cabinets are pretty much standard WMS size. They are a little bit shorter.
2. Cabinets will be black laminated MDF so you can easily apply and change vinyls. We looked at ply but couldn't find material we where happy with the quality of.
3. Decals - almost certainly, trying to organise now. Translite - Pro Pinball supports all 3 screens, so that's covered.
We've toyed with the idea of an "Ultimate" model using a genuine original pinnie cab that's been hand restored but given the man hours involved we've probably have to charge $2k-$3k more and I tend to think that prices it out of the market.
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Rang a few of the ex directors of Bumper today,don't think they appreciated it but who gives a shit.Time to pay up assholes.
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Rang a few of the ex directors of Bumper today,don't think they appreciated it but who gives a shit.Time to pay up assholes.
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try Brims Plywood as they have a massive range of plywood and can custom lay/make it with clean outer layers
thanks for answering the questions, will be watching
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try Brims Plywood as they have a massive range of plywood and can custom lay/make it with clean outer layers
I just tried to Google them and I got a post from 2008 talking about a "Brims" in Queensland closing up shop, and a few results for a "Brims Wood Panels". It's probably just my severe lack of sleep, but could I get a bit more info on these "Brims" guys?
Troy and Jason from ArcadeWorX will be in Melbourne on Monday so I've managed to snag some time with them to go over the final cabinet design. I'll bring the plywood question up again and see where it takes us. My concern is longevity. I know an MDF cabinet will take a beating and a half and not even notice, while ply tends to go balls up pretty quickly in humid environments or if it gets wet.
Plywood would certainly give a more "classic" feel but I'm not convinced it's the best choice for the retail models (especially since finding a reliable supplier of non-warped ply seems to be so difficult).
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I would disagree with you in that MDF has to perfectly sealed and if not will swell to double if it gets any moisture. Plywood is much more stable especially if the correct type is selected amd if you went that extra bit to seal. Plywood is the classic as it lasts, MDF can not be fastened that well relying heavily on glued joints and if it takes some knocks will delaminate. MDF machines nicer and easier To machine and smoother to prep but that's about it.
As for brims The last i bought off them was 8 years ago so maybe they closed doors but the name did come up in a search based in Brisbane. Mister Plywood is another good supplier in nsw and qld and they have the classic 3/4" ply thickness? Ensure you go for a laser ply or similar as then the sheets will be perfectly flat, and no knots and nice to machine. Cheap construction ply of internal ply will be only have good layers on the outer surfaces and not in the centre.
http://www.misterplywood.com.au/
Hope that helps
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is Indiegogo like Kickstarter when no money is taken unless the project is successful in raising the $7k.
Kickstarter is only available to residents of the USA and the UK
Indiegogo is available to Australians and a project can be run one of two ways. Either an "all or nothing" fundraiser (same as KS) or another way where ALL money raised - even if it is only 10% - you get.
It depends on what you are doing with the money and project how you would work it.
Remember, you are NOT buying anything, you are pledging your support for a project by helping people get their ideas up - 'perks' are offered but not a given....and often are never delivered.
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I have to edit this as my wording is terrible, shouldn't comment from a ipad
I would have to disagree with you in that MDF is not the ideal choice as it has to be perfectly sealed, and if not it will swell to double if it gets any moisture in that area. Plywood is much more stable especially if the correct type is selected amd if you went that extra bit to seal the edges underneath. Plywood is the classic as it lasts, MDF can not be fastened that well with screws as it will separate the layers so relies heavily on glued joints (not water based) and if it takes some knocks will delaminate as well. MDF machines does nicer and is smoother to prep (apart from the ends as will suck in the multiple coats of sealer) but that's about it.
As for Brims The last i bought off them was 8 years ago so maybe they closed doors but the name did come up in a search based in Brisbane. Mister Plywood is another good plywood supplier and can make custom ply and are located in NSW and QLD and they have the classic 3/4" ply thickness? Ensure you go for a laser ply or similar as then the sheets will be perfectly flat, use better glue's, no knots and is nice to machine. Cheap construction ply is crap of interior ply will be only have good layers on the outer surfaces and not in the centre - hence the warping.
http://www.misterplywood.com.au/
Also consider Stern did a few pin like the check version of Ironman etc in mdf as well as the The Pin and these are meant to be home pins and never sited and reckon after a few sales will not last the 30 years of use and transport like many of the old Gottlieb's. Ballys and WMS still with us.
Go for quality.
Hope that helps
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Kickstarter is available to Aussies and has been for a while but it has to be in USD and freight has to be calculated from the US so some ventures do seem a little confusing on their origin.
Kickstarter Australia started last week based in Sydney as well on Fathers Day for those considering this avenue for a global project.
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I have been thinking for a while about making or purchasing a MAME pinball cabinet. Starting price for the Mini has got me very interested. I hope this project succeeds for the developers, I will certainly support them.
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Kickstarter is available to Aussies and has been for a while but it has to be in USD and freight has to be calculated from the US so some ventures do seem a little confusing on their origin.
Kickstarter Australia started last week based in Sydney as well on Fathers Day for those considering this avenue for a global project.
Thanks for that heads up - very interesting
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I find the kickstarter projects interesting & inspiring and have supported a few and had no problems yet, the successful project is definitely the one where you get something physical for supporting a project, and alot of people use it for getting a business idea off the ground and some are just amazing raising 5 to 10 times what they were originally chasing - Makerbot was a classic to help the guys get started and then it allowed 3D printing to become a product that anyone could own not just the big company.
here is the link to the Aussie Kickstarter branch starting soon
http://www.kickstarter.com/australia
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Swinks: Thanks for all the information on the pro's and con's of MDF vs Plywood. I wanted to use plywood originally to give the cabinets that "classic" feel but was advised there were too many headaches involved. This "laser ply" sounds perfect. I'll bring it up with ArcadeWorX tomorrow and see where we can go. If I can get quality plywood we will certainly go that route.
Re: Kickstarter. Currently you need to be a US/UK or Canadian citizen to use it - you need a the equivalent of a tax file number and a local bank account. There are ways around it (setting on a US shell company) which works great if you are a software project, or a small piece of hardware - anything that can easily be shipped worldwide as every reward needs to be available to US/UK/Canada and you can restrict from there.
They also have restrictions on the campaign itself - it needs to be a set project with a beginning and end, rewards need to be the result of the project and you can't raise funds to "start up" your business, only the product itself.
Given we are aiming at the Australian and NZ market, and offering merch as rewards (perks) it meant we couldn't use KickStarter even if it was available to Aussie right now.
I got an email on Friday morning letting me know KS is coming to Australia, I think it said November.
The fantastic news (and an official update is going out later tonight) is we have secured private funding to build our "to spec" prototypes, so we start building this week. The IndieGoGo is now more advertising, Google Ranking, and private pre-orders....the project is going ahead no matter what as we have an agency interested in renting the cabinets for their events!
Pro Pinball WILL be pre-installed (if it's ready on time, otherwise we will send out keys when it is) and we find out later in the week if we will be doing some co-branded cabinets. Fingers crossed!!
HomePin: That's rather pessimistic of you ;) It's rather rare than a KS/IndieGoGo makes it's target and then doesn't deliver. It certainly happens from time to time, but given you put your name and reputation on the line when you do this, you'd be pretty stupid to try and cut and run!
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HomePin: That's rather pessimistic of you ;) It's rather rare than a KS/IndieGoGo makes it's target and then doesn't deliver. It certainly happens from time to time, but given you put your name and reputation on the line when you do this, you'd be pretty stupid to try and cut and run!
Just stating the facts - in fact here is the EXACT warning when you go to pledge to help a project on KS:
" Important
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. It is the responsibility of the project creator to complete their project as promised, and the claims of this project are theirs alone."
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Just stating the facts - in fact here is the EXACT warning when you go to pledge to help a project on KS:
" Important
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. It is the responsibility of the project creator to complete their project as promised, and the claims of this project are theirs alone."
IndieGoGo has similar warnings, you can view their "Trust and Safety" page here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/trust
It's a "cover your arse" clause. It's pointing out the campaign organisers are the ones who are legally responsible for doing what they say they will - the service (be it KS, IndieGoGo, Pozible, etc) isn't legally liable.
Of course, every so often a campaign gets runs by somebody who has no business doing so, and this is what happens:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/3-kickstarter-campaigns-gone-bad-2013-6
"Road to Rome" is the biggest KS failure I've heard about as it got a lot of coverage in the gaming press.
As I said before, the core bit is that you are putting your rep on the line. You know who I am, and with a bit of Google searching you would be able to find out where I live, so screwing people over is generally a pretty dumb thing to try ;)
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Also not sure how you are interfacing between the computer and your flipper buttons but this is a cool device
http://kadevice.com/
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Hi Sana, I like it! I like it a lot!! All the best in your venture to get this project to full production. If I had the funds, Id have one
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Also not sure how you are interfacing between the computer and your flipper buttons but this is a cool device
http://kadevice.com/
At this stage we're just using a "stock standard" I-PAQ2 encoder. We were considering developing our own Arduino based solution at a later date but it this project looks like it's doing pretty much exactly the same thing we planned! I'll have a better look at the code and hardware designs when I get a chance to slow down and breathe for a few minutes.
We're also still to work out exactly how the lighting system is going to be controlled (we're not going the LEDWiz route since no commercial software is every likely to support it).
Our first lot of Samsung LED LCD screens arrived today! We've posted the first of what I'm sure will be a very long series of Development Diaries on our website, following the prototyping process step-by-step:
http://infinityamusements.com/2013/09/09/welcome-to-the-development-diaries/
Dealers Choice: Thanks for the show of support. If you'd like you can contribute towards our IndieGoGo campaign for as little as $2 ;)
After the 4 days at TechEd I'm really missing not having a video pin that I can play with each day! That should give me some excellent motivation to prototype faster ;)
I was planning on at least getting two screens hooked up tonight and have a session with just a 360 controller but (looks at the time) I think that ship has sailed for the evening...
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Any reason you guys chose Samsung over other brands such as Sony?
I've had a bad history with Samsung products and don't trust their longevity
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Everyone has different experiences - I have had nothing but excellent results and service from Samsung and I can say that Sony is without doubt the worst brand for reliability. I onwned a TV repair business for 20 years and the stories I can tell about Sony - let's just say my experience (and that of many many customers) is that it is overpriced, unreliable rubbish!!
Also these days Samsung is one of the few brands left that actually make their own TVs - Sony etc are all simply OEM in China so all you are buying is the badge (and Sony don't even make that).
Any reason you guys chose Samsung over other brands such as Sony?
I've had a bad history with Samsung products and don't trust their longevity
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I had bad luck with Sony in the past. Products are great when you first use but after several months, they start to play up. Sony does not make their gear robust enough for longevity. I have used Samsung products for about five years now and all still good.
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have to agree with the other guys, not a fan of Sony (had problems with various products) and Samsung make pretty good products now.
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During their peak the Bravia series were some of the best LCD panels you could buy. This was around the time the PS3 was launched. Of course, back then they were still being made by Sony. I believe the panels in Sony displays are actually Sharp these days.
Even those "prime Bravias" had issues. My dad has the 40" and the DTV tuner died. It would have cost more to get the one board replaced (since they don't do component level repairs) than just to replace the whole thing. Wasn't impressed.
I'm more of a plasma guy when it comes to my own home entertainment system and I'm currently running a Samsung 63". Couldn't be happier with it :)
The decision to go with the Samsung LED panels was made for 5 reasons:
1. Samsung is one of the few ODM's left so a Samsung panel is actually a Samsung panel.
2. Their electronics are top-notch. Sure you could get another "no name" that uses a Samsung panel, but it won't have Samsung electronics.
3. Heat is a major issue with video pins and LED's produce a lot less heat.
4. Reliability. Most of the larger stands I've been involved in at tech expos use Samsung and its very rare to hear of a problem.
5. Vivid colours even at extreme viewing angels.
Given the purpose of the panels, number 4 was the big one, but every factor played it's part.
We've been on a major shopping spree this week and everything we need is either here, or not far away. If you're curious to see how we do things you can follow our Development Diaries on our website:
http://infinityamusements.com/2013/09/09/welcome-to-the-development-diaries/
Or if you don't have the patience to wait for us to update the site, we post "live updates" as we work to Instagram:
http://instagram.com/InfinityPinball
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"Prototype Stage One Complete"
http://infinityamusements.com/2013/09/19/prototype-stage-one-complete/ (http://infinityamusements.com/2013/09/19/prototype-stage-one-complete/)
Reconstruction of the donated Williams "Hurricane" cabinet was finished in the early hours of this morning. Our first prototype unit is now at a "play ready" state - although the encoder hasn't been set up yet so it's really just a PC with 3 screens in a pretty box at this stage.
We did a bit of "play testing" with PinballFX2 earlier tonight. Bearing in mind there are no airflow fans in the cabinet yet, we played for just over an hour and the air inside wasn't even warm. It looks like using LED's was the right decision!
IndieGoGo Update: 40% with 19 days to go...
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looking good ^^^
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Thanks Swinks :)
Although we haven't had time to write up the next Development Diary it's time to give a sneak peak at our "Project: Hurricane" prototype model.
All of the physical buttons are now wired up via the iPac2 encoder board. The addition of the "hidden" joystick makes navigation and extra functions so much easier to control than before.
The next stage will be button lighting, then on to force feedback solutions while we wait for our first retail cabinet build.
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thanks for the update, starting to come together ^^^