The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Chat - Non Pinball/coin-opp Discussion => Topic started by: Retropin on March 12, 2015, 11:41:26 PM
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Be careful people when buying stuff from China via Ebay. I recently bought a right angled heavy duty soldering iron for the fabrication of steel letters.. product was $50 inc postage.
When I got it, I didn't like the mains cord one bit and decided to pull it apart and change to a double insulated type... Heres the cord.. Twin core with cotton/ nylon sleeve
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/photo1_zpswumrzy9h.jpg)
When I opened the iron, I couldn't believe just how slap happy this had been put together. The mains cord shown above was pushed through the clamp down terminals real bad.. hardly any grip and stray strands of wire hanging freely. The 240V wires that go up through the iron to the fat resistor bar at top are just wound by hand around the terminals.. no real connection, just sitting loose. Its a fire waiting to happen or worse still potential death. Wire insulation had nicks in them from being stripped back poorly
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/photo_zpsavgkdrhw.jpg)
when I screwed the WOODEN @.@ handle back together it cracked open.
This is a mains potential soldering iron... Loose wires cause fires... bare wires cause death.
I cannot believe that someone would sell such a dangerous item.. anyone not knowing better could well kill themselves.
Ive seen LED drivers up to 200W in power, metal casing, no earth and ive swapped many out onsite for a more compliant product.. you cant test and tag.. they just don't pass and yet we are being flooded with these cheap imports... so many people/suppliers/users have no friggin idea.
Be careful... its easy to print off a CE tick sticker and apply... doesn't mean that it passed or ever went for verification.
PLEASE take care!!!
Gav
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That is unreal, makes you wonder how many fires are caused by the dodgy shit we are buying these days !@#
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I've basically resigned myself to the fact that anything electrical bought from ebay via China is a disposable product that will be lucky to last a few months of operation.
But yes, that is some disturbing vision to see it pulled apart like that and how poorly it was manufactured.
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I decided probably 7 years ago to not buy anything electrical ever again from ebay after seeing something similar and very dangerous.
I stick to Japaneese products from higher end shops cause it's worth the extra coin.
Korean stuff like LG is also excellent.
Anything that plugs into 240 volts that ever touches the hands or body is just not worth the risk from ebay.
I wonder how many people get electrocuted by cheap Chineese shit and the family thinks they just died of a heart attack in the workshop......
People fault finding pinball machines with the playfield up and the machine turned on with the coin door shut is another death trap for the inexperienced. You don't ever get many second chances with electricity. 240 volts kills u very quick.
Good thread Gav. It's a timely reminder for all members to be extra careful.
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Yes thanks for thread Gav, I had similar experience in the past.
I always choose
German,
Korean or
Japanese
for long life use products and
Chinese for one off or small use.
We have really become a disposable society over the past 20 years.
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That lead wouldn't even pass a visual inspection for commercial test & tag. It is illegal to sell in Australia due to no insulation on the pins. There must be someone you can report this too, those twisted wires are a not very funny joke... very dangerous.
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That lead wouldn't even pass a visual inspection for commercial test & tag. It is illegal to sell in Australia due to no insulation on the pins. There must be someone you can report this too, those twisted wires are a not very funny joke... very dangerous.
Exactly which is why I changed it over.... 240V connection is now soldered with heat shrink covers. Earth is now looped through the pins... handle??? - Will have to sort that one out with some plastic material of sorts
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That lead wouldn't even pass a visual inspection for commercial test & tag. It is illegal to sell in Australia due to no insulation on the pins. There must be someone you can report this too, those twisted wires are a not very funny joke... very dangerous.
Exactly which is why I changed it over.... 240V connection is now soldered with heat shrink covers. Earth is now looped through the pins... handle??? - Will have to sort that one out with some plastic material of sorts
Devices such as heating elements ( this is what this is) should NOT be soldered as the heat from the unit could melt the solder.
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I do lots of mods to make importsed goods compliant to my work areas policies. So many times the cost of work to make units compliant exceeds the saving from buying cheap crap. Caveat emptor.
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Be careful... its easy to print off a CE tick sticker and apply... doesn't mean that it passed or ever went for verification.
PLEASE take care!!!
Gav
Don't get me started on c-tick compliance.
First of, c-tick compliance equipment has a code number under it that can be tracked thru a user base back to its manufacturer.
90% of new equipment in the country does not have c-tick compliance.
Try buying even an extension lead that is compliant, there very hard to come by, even known brands such as arlec are not compliant.
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I see this every day as you might expect.
The issue here is that this item was obviously made by Billy Lee on his kitchen table then flogged on eBay. You can buy all of the parts over the counter from several massive electronic market areas and put them together yourself.
The same goes for a lot of the LED lamps and fittings you see sold online. You can buy the aluminium shell, the PCB, the LEDs and the 230/12V LED driver and solder/screw it all together yourself. The problem is that usually "Billy" is from the countryside and has zero idea about anything other than a hoe. So the lamp you buy MIGHT be well put together and it equally might NOT be! You have no way of telling until you pull it apart and look.
Items made in proper factories (such as the Homepin factory in Shenzhen :lol) are built to strict rules and methods. Look at a toaster in Woolworths (Made in China without any doubt) - sold RETAIL for under $10 and the quality is outstanding. It will meet or exceed all Australian electrical requirements and probably perform well for many years - all for LESS than $10! Pull it apart and the build quality will be obvious. Correct use of cable glands and clamps, correct terminals and cable terminating methods. Correct earthing wiring including paint cutting washers as required by Australian law.
I think the biggest problem here is that sites such as Fleabay have allowed "Billy" to whack any old shit together on his kitchen table and flog it internationally with virtually zero comeback so why should he care?
The fault, IMO lies fair and square on the greedy corporate eBay!!!
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We buy China because its cheap.
It`s not too hard to rewire most electronic tools and save some cash.
Generally the components in the tools are good.
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We buy China because its cheap.
It`s not too hard to rewire most electronic tools and save some cash.
Generally the components in the tools are good.
Which is exactly what I said in my post....
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That lead wouldn't even pass a visual inspection for commercial test & tag. It is illegal to sell in Australia due to no insulation on the pins. There must be someone you can report this too, those twisted wires are a not very funny joke... very dangerous.
Exactly which is why I changed it over.... 240V connection is now soldered with heat shrink covers. Earth is now looped through the pins... handle??? - Will have to sort that one out with some plastic material of sorts
Devices such as heating elements ( this is what this is) should NOT be soldered as the heat from the unit could melt the solder.
Agree.. but in this instance the element is some 300mm away from the connection... ive let it sit and run for an hour on an isolated bench and all is good. I did twist through 2 axis also ( just in case)
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I think the biggest problem here is that sites such as Fleabay have allowed "Billy" to whack any old shit together on his kitchen table and flog it internationally with virtually zero comeback so why should he care?
All I could do was leave negative feedback which is limited to very few characters.. pretty much only got to write " product is lethal and fire hazard - do not buy unless you can make electrically sa.."
Even then, Fleabay didnt want me to leave the feedback with " Please contact the seller before posting negative feedback " etc
We buy China because its cheap
Well.. yes plus product isn't available here. Ask anyone how to fabricate a steel letter and they'll tell you that you HAVE to TIG weld which isn't true. 30 years ago in my apprenticeship we soldered all steel letters ( TIG just wasn't around) and we installed them in Piccadilly Circus, Leicester Sq etc. Those neon filled letters only came down a few years back to make way for LED message boards because you can sell the same space 50 times over by changing the message.
It took me 10 mins to make the product safe.. but Joe Bloggs??.. He'd be holding those loose wires in his palm right now with another hand on a strip of steel... positively shocking!
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I'm sitting in front of an Airflow plus8 electric fan bought for my granma in 1968. Still going strong 47 years and 3 generations later
Well done Warner - Drayton.
Just as well you decided to have a poke around inside.
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I'm sitting in front of an Airflow plus8 electric fan bought for my granma in 1968. Still going strong 47 years and 3 generations later
Well done Warner - Drayton.
Just as well you decided to have a poke around inside.
Yes, but what did it cost back in the day? I would bet it was 1/3 of a weeks pay!!!
Now you can buy an infra-red, remote controlled pedestal fan (Made in China) for $18.........pretty easy to see why Chinese products have taken over the shelves of practically all big retailers.
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True...I bought a 51cm TV in 1999 for $540 and a VCR for around $300
Life pre China was pretty dear.
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I'm sitting in front of an Airflow plus8 electric fan bought for my granma in 1968. Still going strong 47 years and 3 generations later
Well done Warner - Drayton.
Just as well you decided to have a poke around inside.
Wouldn't pass the finger test now a days though %.%
http://www.ergonomicsusa.com/product/jointed-childrens-finger-probe/
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It's drawn blood more than once.
Still safer than the soldering iron.
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Here's a good one for you guys.
I met a fellow a year ago that imported 5 large shipping containers of LCD/LED 55 inch Televisions in from China.
He spent almost a million dollars and was going to triple his money.
Problem was, when Aust Customs took a peak at his containers just on a random check, it was decided to "confiscate" half a dozen TV,s to test them out (yes Customs Agents were stealing some).
The problem began a day later when one of the TV,s started to smoke whilst being turned on.
Soon it was apparent the TV,s may ALL have a problem.
The containers were checked again, not cleared and we're all poorly built.
They looked amazing before and after being turned on, but they all had the same small design fault.
The entire million dollars of 55 inch TV,s were sent to the recyclers.
The importer lost a million dollars.
That's what happens when you don't have electronics and electrical experience.
The importer lost everything.
Thankyou for Flying China Airlines.
He should have gone to Japan or Korea with his million bux.
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So is our country flooded with crap from China? That's a worry ^&^
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So is our country flooded with crap from China? That's a worry ^&^
No, read my post above about Chinese quality and Cavey makes a valid point. Most of the problems arise because WESTERN buyers either lack the appropriate knowledge OR are greedy and squeeze the supplier to the bottom cent.
China is every bit as capable, possibly more so, of making first class ANYTHING as pretty well any other country it's just that buyers and large retailers CHOOSE to screw the supplier as low as possible to boost their bottom line and that's when the problems start. They put a man in space - you can't do that by cutting corners and making shit!
My old man used to always say:
"You can't make cream out of cow shit" - this is so true in China - if you want cheap you will get it, but don't expect it to be the same high quality as something that is a little more expensive.
There is a fine balance that I tread EVERY day here with my suppliers. I have most of them trained now and that's why I like to stick with the same ones where possible. That last $0.50 that you want as a discount on the $5 item (that retails in Australia for $80) means the difference between a good, merchantable product and something that is going to be made cutting corners and likely to give you quality and recall problems.
I NEVER squeeze my suppliers to their "lowest price" because I know what happens - I have seen it dozens of times.
I laugh when I hear people say "Made in China CRAP"! They are very ignorant of exactly what is going on and just how THEY are the mugs being manipulated, and NOT by the Chinese either - blame your OWN countrymen for 90% of the problems you may ever have with "Made in China" items!
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So very true Mike. I saw greedy Aussies in the electronic security industry do the same thing and just try n ring every cent out of paying for quality items. They were just stupid and too greedy n didn't use their brains.
The Chineese importer used to say " I can sell u mercedes Benz for mercedes Benz price but if you pay me shit money I give you Mercedes Benz on outside and it's Daewoo shit on inside".
In his broken English I knew he was saying, if u fuk me on price, you really fuk yourself too with cheap nasty product".
It wasn't rocket science. I bought his most expensive stuff and compared it to Bosch.
I gave people 5 year warranty on Bosch and two year warranty on Chineese stuff because it was very good but not the absolute best. I always sold Bosch stuff first. Then Bosch stuff started getting made in China and no longer Germany.
The Bosch Chineese stuff had a one percent failure rate and the German stuff a five percent fail rate.
The Chineese worked harder because they badly WANTED the massive contract.
The price dropped for us but the quality was superb.
Famous Chineese Proverb from Confucious. Lol
"You get what you pay for".
When did dumb Westerners start thinking you could get gold for tin prices ? Lol
We all know, you only get gold at gold prices.
The Chineese aren't stupid. It's the Western world for being short sighted and too dam greedy. Lol
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Ive bought items from china from Chinese suppliers.
My experience on many occasions is Chinese quality control is the problem.
Ive bought items that were outstanding then re-ordered the same product because it was good from the same supplier and the next one was crap.
I try a different seller and the same problem
Often Chinese items are hit and miss.
Allot of Them Dont seem to check what they sell and weed out the faulty stuff.
Thats my experience
Personally I am getting tired of buying Chinese shit
China can make good stuff but you cant deny homepin that their rate of dodgy manufacturers who flood the market with crappy products is higher than countries like Japan,usa and so on
but maybe those countries quality control laws are better #@#
As a consumer its getting very hard to know if you will get something good from china or shit, its a risk and its becoming one not worth taking these days
Then add in the Chinglish instructions that will drive any one mad ^.^
As for fans I have an Old national fan that I cant replace because I cant find one that pushes as much air these days. ^^^
Regards Rich.
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My comment was abit tongue in cheek *)* but having said that lol after that lady electrocuted herself with a product from China by memory head phones I buy off ebay but only genuine Apple products :) but how do I inow there really genuine lol *!@
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Famous Chineese Proverb from Confucious. Lol
"You get what you pay for".
trust me you dont get what you payed for these days
way to many shonk Chinese sellers especially on ebay
When did dumb Westerners start thinking you could get gold for tin prices ? Lol
We all know, you only get gold at gold prices.
No if I pay tin prices I want tin not a dog turd. %.%
My comment was abit tongue in cheek badgrin but having said that lol after that lady electrocuted herself with a product from China by memory head phones I buy off ebay but only genuine Apple products :) but how do I inow there really genuine lol
Problem is Australian buyers are too trusting so we take peoples word when the Chinese seller says they are genuine.
Ive come to the realization along time ago that if you want the real deal you go pay the money from the Bricks and mortar store ^^^
And not take the word of the scamming Chinese sellers.
regards Rich
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All of my comments are not referring to buying a single item on Fleabay but rather container loads. If you are buying one or small volumes especially from an eBay seller - well, good luck is all I can say.
If you are IN Australia and trusting ANY Chinese supplier to send you what is shown in the glossy brochures then you are a fool. I am asked WEEKLY to pick up the pieces from deals gone wrong and I used to help out. I don't do it any longer as the problem is always the same.
If you want to trade with China there is only one way to do it - BE IN CHINA and supervise things yourself or employ someone to do that for you. If you buy on trust and sight unseen then you deserve all you get (or don't get as the case may be).
Too many want to simply order, pay and sit back and think the cash will just roll in - it NEVER does. If you are not prepared to do the hard yards then importing is not for you, particularly from China.
I buy high quality stuff here in China every single day because I am ON THE SPOT - they cannot trick me with the stuff they sell to India and Africa.
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All of my comments are not referring to buying a single item on Fleabay but rather container loads. If you are buying one or small volumes especially from an eBay seller - well, good luck is all I can say.
maybe you should have read the Title of the thread
you calling people fools for buying from Chinese sellers but at the same time saying china isnt crap
Which one is it?
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All of my comments are not referring to buying a single item on Fleabay but rather container loads. If you are buying one or small volumes especially from an eBay seller - well, good luck is all I can say.
maybe you should have read the Title of the thread
you calling people fools for buying from Chinese sellers but at the same time saying china isnt crap
Which one is it?
I believe I have explained myself very clearly but let me say it again perhaps simplified:
If you are buying "one off" from sites such as eBay - good luck. These sellers are most often working from home and sometimes cobbling together things such as experienced by the OP. The proliferation of online buying platforms such as eBay, Alibaba, MadeinChina.com and dozens of others has allowed many shonky sellers to take advantage - what you see on Alibaba as one example is not necessarily what the "company" will be.
If you are an importer OR wish to buy larger quantities then you MUST be in China to buy and supervise or you may not get what you think you are buying. The people that irk me are the ones who come to China for a few days, maybe they attend a trade show and suddenly they are experts on all things China. It doesn't work that way.
China makes all levels of quality, if (as an importer) you are NOT prepared to BE IN CHINA to buy and supervise then I advise DON'T do it.
They can and DO make high quality as well as crap - Australia makes crap as well.
My comments are that you really must have a "hands on" approach if you hope to buy well from China.
I live in China and I conduct business here every day - I really couldn't care if you take notice of my comments or not, please yourself. I believe I am in a pretty strong position to comment on things that happen here but maybe some don't agree with that?
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All of my comments are not referring to buying a single item on Fleabay but rather container loads. If you are buying one or small volumes especially from an eBay seller - well, good luck is all I can say.
maybe you should have read the Title of the thread
you calling people fools for buying from Chinese sellers but at the same time saying china isnt crap
Which one is it?
I believe I have explained myself very clearly but let me say it again perhaps simplified:
If you are buying "one off" from sites such as eBay - good luck. These sellers are most often working from home and sometimes cobbling together things such as experienced by the OP. The proliferation of online buying platforms such as eBay, Alibaba, MadeinChina.com and dozens of others has allowed many shonky sellers to take advantage - what you see on Alibaba as one example is not necessarily what the "company" will be.
If you are an importer OR wish to buy larger quantities then you MUST be in China to buy and supervise or you may not get what you think you are buying. The people that irk me are the ones who come to China for a few days, maybe they attend a trade show and suddenly they are experts on all things China. It doesn't work that way.
China makes all levels of quality, if (as an importer) you are NOT prepared to BE IN CHINA to buy and supervise then I advise DON'T do it.
They can and DO make high quality as well as crap - Australia makes crap as well.
My comments are that you really must have a "hands on" approach if you hope to buy well from China.
I live in China and I conduct business here every day - I really couldn't care if you take notice of my comments or not, please yourself. I believe I am in a pretty strong position to comment on things that happen here but maybe some don't agree with that?
Yer but this isnt a topic about importing containers mate.
The topic was talking about Chinese ebay shit and people talking about their buying experiences on Chinese import shit.
you sat there for ages saying oh Chinese stuff is good but then back tracked when you realized we were talking about Ebay Chinese shit.
and Im glad you are so superior to all us plebs here in Australia and thanks again for telling us how you are so awesome.
If you want to simplify things maybe the OP should have simplified the Topic for you smart arse.
But on your topic
Look at a toaster in Woolworths (Made in China without any doubt) - sold RETAIL for under $10 and the quality is outstanding
Are you on FKN drugs mate? If you call those woolworths toasters outstanding quality id hate to see your quality control.
You know what those woolworth toasters are? fire hazards I bought one for our work shop and the plug was dodgy, the elements burnt out. and later it was recalled because it was a fire hazard.
I cant count how many times I have walked into Woolworths and seen a recall notice on the entry door for some bullshit Chinese made product they sell.
China does not have a satisfactory quality control standard and you your self have pretty much said that.
And you say ebay is to blame? no the zero quality standards that china has is to blame.
Because it really isnt too much to ask for consumers to get what they were apparently being sold.
Regards Rich
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Rich, in all respect mate I think you are out of order getting personal with Mike because he is the last bloke to think he is awesome and better than anyone, and he certainly is being a smart arse to anyone.
I would suggest you meet the bloke before saying such things.
Mike mentioned containers of stuff from ebay cause I mentioned a guy who bought in 5 containers of LCD televisions.
He knows the thread is and was originally about ebay but his advice re importing or exporting was also designed to help and protect any member who was ever thinking about purchasing large from China as opposed from just one item.
The point was to do your due diligence and your homework.
His words are of wisdom, not words of ego. If u knew Mike personally like myself and others on here do, u would be hard pressed to find a more professional, caring and warm hearted bloke. Mike is here to help, certainly not to hurt or hinder anyone.
Anyway, the point I want to make about products is this.
No one can seriously believe u can buy anything on Ebay from no name brand sellers and get quality.
Ebay is famous for inexpensive products and the cheapest prices. Those words never equal quality from any country in the world or from any seller anywhere.
You have to buy from big name shops and stick to big name products or u are gambling.
The point for the whole thread really from Gavin who posted the thread is "be safe members n check anything electrical". The thread moved on by many people to then be very general and wide about China and manufacturing, buying n selling etc.
A healthy debate includes understanding from the start no one is trying to out score or out point anyone on intelligence or attitude. Everyone is here to help usually.
I personally take exception to people attacking Mike cause I call him a friend and a person who is on this forum to help other people always first and himself last.
If u met the guy, or spoke to him on the phone, you would feel bad u called him a smart arse.
That is far from the guys personality.
Don't confuse passion with arrogance.
Mike is passionate and sometimes tounge in cheek, but he isn't anything but protective of helping out members.
I used to argue with Mike about Toyota, and we had some good debates, but I never lost respect for him and if anything, really enjoyed the fact he cared enough about me as a member to keep typing and getting me to at least think about his knowledge.
We didn't always agree but we always stayed mates. Food for thought.
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All of my comments are not referring to buying a single item on Fleabay but rather container loads. If you are buying one or small volumes especially from an eBay seller - well, good luck is all I can say.
maybe you should have read the Title of the thread
you calling people fools for buying from Chinese sellers but at the same time saying china isnt crap
Which one is it?
I believe I have explained myself very clearly but let me say it again perhaps simplified:
If you are buying "one off" from sites such as eBay - good luck. These sellers are most often working from home and sometimes cobbling together things such as experienced by the OP. The proliferation of online buying platforms such as eBay, Alibaba, MadeinChina.com and dozens of others has allowed many shonky sellers to take advantage - what you see on Alibaba as one example is not necessarily what the "company" will be.
If you are an importer OR wish to buy larger quantities then you MUST be in China to buy and supervise or you may not get what you think you are buying. The people that irk me are the ones who come to China for a few days, maybe they attend a trade show and suddenly they are experts on all things China. It doesn't work that way.
China makes all levels of quality, if (as an importer) you are NOT prepared to BE IN CHINA to buy and supervise then I advise DON'T do it.
They can and DO make high quality as well as crap - Australia makes crap as well.
My comments are that you really must have a "hands on" approach if you hope to buy well from China.
I live in China and I conduct business here every day - I really couldn't care if you take notice of my comments or not, please yourself. I believe I am in a pretty strong position to comment on things that happen here but maybe some don't agree with that?
Yer but this isnt a topic about importing containers mate.
The topic was talking about Chinese ebay shit and people talking about their buying experiences on Chinese import shit.
you sat there for ages saying oh Chinese stuff is good but then back tracked when you realized we were talking about Ebay Chinese shit.
and Im glad you are so superior to all us plebs here in Australia and thanks again for telling us how you are so awesome.
If you want to simplify things maybe the OP should have simplified the Topic for you smart arse.
But on your topic
Look at a toaster in Woolworths (Made in China without any doubt) - sold RETAIL for under $10 and the quality is outstanding
Are you on FKN drugs mate? If you call those woolworths toasters outstanding quality id hate to see your quality control.
You know what those woolworth toasters are? fire hazards I bought one for our work shop and the plug was dodgy, the elements burnt out. and later it was recalled because it was a fire hazard.
I cant count how many times I have walked into Woolworths and seen a recall notice on the entry door for some bullshit Chinese made product they sell.
China does not have a satisfactory quality control standard and you your self have pretty much said that.
And you say ebay is to blame? no the zero quality standards that china has is to blame.
Because it really isnt too much to ask for consumers to get what they were apparently being sold.
Regards Rich
You really need to have a long hard look at YOURSELF
Think outside the square as you are obviously living in lala land
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You really need to have a long hard look at YOURSELF
Think outside the square as you are obviously living in lala land
says the guy who makes his shit in china and calls his product "Australian Owned".
Which BTW is only a technicality !!@
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I don't have one single customer who calls my products "shit" and I sell worldwide - it certainly is you that has the problem.
Haters are always going to hate - nothing I can (or even want to) do about that.
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I don't have one single customer who calls my products "shit" and I sell worldwide - it certainly is you that has the problem.
Haters are always going to hate - nothing I can (or even want to) do about that.
No i think we both share the problem here because I dont particularly like you much- I think your an Arrogant SOB and im sure the feeling is mutual.
The difference is I dont have my Business attached to My comments which will look fantastic on google search for your potential customers.
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I don't have one single customer who calls my products "shit" and I sell worldwide - it certainly is you that has the problem.
Haters are always going to hate - nothing I can (or even want to) do about that.
No i think we both share the problem here because I dont particularly like you much- I think your an Arrogant SOB and im sure the feeling is mutual.
The difference is I dont have my Business attached to My comments which will look fantastic on google search for your potential customers.
If my potential customers judge me by my comments and my beliefs AND they don't like that then I DON'T WANT THEM as customers!
The world is a very big place and you seem to be trapped inside a very small bubble - I actually feel sorry for you.
You have missed the entire point - Homepin is NOT a business - it is my HOBBY so I really couldn't care less if NOBODY bought anything from me.
That is the entire difference between what I do and why I do it and most others that ONLY run a business "for the money".
I don't need or want the money - nothing means LESS to me than money.
"Arrogant SOB" - maybe I am but I have earned those stripes - please tell us exactly what you have done to help the pinball community? Nothing right? I thought so.
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I don't have one single customer who calls my products "shit" and I sell worldwide - it certainly is you that has the problem.
Haters are always going to hate - nothing I can (or even want to) do about that.
No i think we both share the problem here because I dont particularly like you much- I think your an Arrogant SOB and im sure the feeling is mutual.
The difference is I dont have my Business attached to My comments which will look fantastic on google search for your potential customers.
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I don't have one single customer who calls my products "shit" and I sell worldwide - it certainly is you that has the problem.
Haters are always going to hate - nothing I can (or even want to) do about that.
No i think we both share the problem here because I dont particularly like you much- I think your an Arrogant SOB and im sure the feeling is mutual.
The difference is I dont have my Business attached to My comments which will look fantastic on google search for your potential customers.
Whoa dude
what has Mike ever done to you?
I am not aware of him screwing anybody over
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I went to bed hoping for peace and a change after writing my post but I woke up to the opposite. Lol
You can only try. Lol
I pay you respect Pete PBP for your comment.
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That is the entire difference between what I do and why I do it and most others that ONLY run a business "for the money".
Mate if you weren't in it for the money you would make your shit in Australia not china
You would employ Australians like the rest of us who own businesses.
At the end of the day you are greedy son of a bitch who wants to pay his workers next to nothing to help maximize profits and play the "oh I dont do it for money" card
what a load of bullshit.
If you dont care about money then start giving away free games instead of selling them, why not? you seem to want to make your self out as some sort of Fkn Santa clause !!@
But what ever helps you sleep at night hey mike?
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That is the entire difference between what I do and why I do it and most others that ONLY run a business "for the money".
Mate if you weren't in it for the money you would make your shit in Australia not china
You would employ Australians like the rest of us who own businesses.
At the end of the day you are greedy son of a bitch who wants to pay his workers next to nothing to help maximize profits and play the "oh I dont do it for money" card
what a load of bullshit.
If you dont care about money then start giving away free games instead of selling them, why not? you seem to want to make your self out as some sort of Fkn Santa clause !!@
But what ever helps you sleep at night hey mike?
whoa dude
personal attacks are not cool
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How much do you pay your regular assembly line staff mike? how much is the girl on the assembly line being paid per hour in Aussie dollars mate?
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Ask the Newcastle Pinball Assoc - I just GAVE them a Hankin table to raffle and asked that they donate 50% of the proceeds to Ronald McDonald House in Newcastle and use the balance to run the assoc.
Is that "giving my stuff away" good enough for you?
I won't employ any more in Australia than I need to because of the over the top costs that make it impossible to manufacture a pinball machine there. If you think my Chinese staff are paid "next to nothing" then that proves exactly that you don't know anything about China - it is a LOT more expensive here than many realise. The advantages are simple, I can buy practically any part or have any service done such as plating, mould making etc etc all within a 10km radius of my factory - you just can't do that in Australia.
Again, please remind us exactly what it is you have done for the pinball community?
PS - sorry for the thread hi-jack Gavin but I felt my responses were required.
That is the entire difference between what I do and why I do it and most others that ONLY run a business "for the money".
Mate if you weren't in it for the money you would make your shit in Australia not china
You would employ Australians like the rest of us who own businesses.
At the end of the day you are greedy son of a bitch who wants to pay his workers next to nothing to help maximize profits and play the "oh I dont do it for money" card
what a load of bullshit.
If you dont care about money then start giving away free games instead of selling them, why not? you seem to want to make your self out as some sort of Fkn Santa clause !!@
But what ever helps you sleep at night hey mike?
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Ask the Newcastle Pinball Assoc - I just GAVE them a Hankin table to raffle and asked that they donate 50% of the proceeds to Ronald McDonald House in Newcastle and use the balance to run the assoc.
Is that "giving my stuff away" good enough for you?
I won't employ any more in Australia than I need to because of the over the top costs that make it impossible to manufacture a pinball machine there. If you think my Chinese staff are paid "next to nothing" then that proves exactly that you don't know anything about China - it is a LOT more expensive here than many realise. The advantages are simple, I can buy practically any part or have any service done such as plating, mould making etc etc all within a 10km radius of my factory - you just can't do that in Australia.
Again, please remind us exactly what it is you have done for the pinball community?
PS - sorry for the thread hi-jack Gavin but I felt my responses were required.
That is the entire difference between what I do and why I do it and most others that ONLY run a business "for the money".
Mate if you weren't in it for the money you would make your shit in Australia not china
You would employ Australians like the rest of us who own businesses.
At the end of the day you are greedy son of a bitch who wants to pay his workers next to nothing to help maximize profits and play the "oh I dont do it for money" card
what a load of bullshit.
If you dont care about money then start giving away free games instead of selling them, why not? you seem to want to make your self out as some sort of Fkn Santa clause !!@
But what ever helps you sleep at night hey mike?
You gave one a away for a Raffle, shit my business is like tiny compared to you and I given Tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff away for charity.
Again how much do you pay your workers in china in Aus dollars?
your not worried about making money so why not employ Australians we need investment in this country? The truth is you are maximizing profits so dont fkn lie mate.
I hate people who lie
you could be here like the rest of us employing aprentices and giving jobs to Australians.
you dont care about moneyand we have a massive rate of youth unemployment that needs business like you to help with. but NO the bottom dollar is all you give a shit about
Then you come out and say you are like santa claus giving away a free table WOW
while the rest of us eploy and help train kids here and do our damnedest to keep them employed while guys like you fuk off over seas
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How much do you pay your regular assembly line staff mike? how much is the girl on the assembly line being paid per hour in Aussie dollars mate?
I will answer this even though it is none of your business.
The award wage for a "general assembly hand" is 2350rmb per month for a 20 day month. Sundays and after hours (after 5.30pm weekdays) are classed as "overtime" and must be paid at 1.5 times the pay rate for weekdays and double time Sundays.
The LOWEST paid staff member in my factory works 6 days - 8am to 5.30pm with 1.5 hours for lunch daily. They are provided a shared dormitory with maximum 3 per unit and I provide a bed. I also provide a "common room" which has a refrigerator, washing machine, large communal table and cooking gear in a fitted out kitchen.
This person is paid 2900rmb and gets all of the extras above. I also just paid for them to have their teeth fixed as they are from the countryside and didn't place a great deal of importance on having good teeth so after discussions it turned out they simply didn't want to spend the money (not that they didn't have the money - they just didn't want to spend it on a dentist).
They are also given training on the workshop equipment such as MIG welder, lathe, Folding machine and other things - training that NO OTHER Chinese factory would give them.
I pride myself in looking after ALL of my staff and giving them conditions far better than they would get anywhere else.
For an exercise I just averaged all my staff wages and the average is 4680rmb (about AU$975 per month) - that is BRILLIANT money when you remember they have no other costs except food.
They also have more Government mandated public holidays than we do in Australia!
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How much do you pay your regular assembly line staff mike? how much is the girl on the assembly line being paid per hour in Aussie dollars mate?
I will answer this even though it is none of your business.
The award wage for a "general assembly hand" is 2350rmb per month for a 20 day month. Sundays and after hours (after 5.30pm weekdays) are classed as "overtime" and must be paid at 1.5 times the pay rate for weekdays and double time Sundays.
The LOWEST paid staff member in my factory works 6 days - 8am to 5.30pm with 1.5 hours for lunch daily. They are provided a shared dormitory with maximum 3 per unit and I provide a bed. I also provide a "common room" which has a refrigerator, washing machine, large communal table and cooking gear in a fitted out kitchen.
This person is paid 2900rmb and gets all of the extras above. I also just paid for them to have their teeth fixed as they are from the countryside and didn't place a great deal of importance on having good teeth so after discussions it turned out they simply didn't want to spend the money (not that they didn't have the money - they just didn't want to spend it on a dentist).
They are also given training on the workshop equipment such as MIG welder, lathe, Folding machine and other things - training that NO OTHER Chinese factory would give them.
I pride myself in looking after ALL of my staff and giving them conditions far better than they would get anywhere else.
For an exercise I just averaged all my staff wages and the average is 4680rmb (about AU$975 per month) - that is BRILLIANT money when you remember they have no other costs except food.
They also have more Government mandated public holidays than we do in Australia!
no dont average your staff tell us the girl on the production lines cost PER HOUR.
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your not worried about making money so why not employ Australians we need investment in this country? The truth is you are maximizing profits so dont fkn lie mate.
I hate people who lie
you could be here like the rest of us employing aprentices and giving jobs to Australians.
I already answered this but you just won't listen - I simply cannot buy the things in Australia that I can get here - coil winding machine (Made in China) from an Australian supplier AU$3400 - I paid $300 in China FOR THE SAME MACHINE.
I can assure you I have not made one single cent profit from this venture - I have spent (at last count) in excess of AU$1.5M building this factory and developing products - sure, I hope to turn that around one day and actually see a bit come back but if I wanted to use the money to "maximise profits" I certainly wouldn't be doing what I am doing, there are far easier things I could have done with the money.
I sleep very well thankyou in one of the factory dormitories surrounded by trees and the birds wake me up in the morning very much like my home in the rainforests of Kuranda.
Anyway, I am unlikely to comment further as I believe I have ansered your questions honestly and completely which is more than I can say for you!
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Let's see now
Stern probably pays minimum wage which is $10 hour in the US
And an LE is $8000 US
Minimum wage in Australia is $22
Cannot see too many buyers of games at $10,000 +
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How much do you pay your regular assembly line staff mike? how much is the girl on the assembly line being paid per hour in Aussie dollars mate?
I will answer this even though it is none of your business.
The award wage for a "general assembly hand" is 2350rmb per month for a 20 day month. Sundays and after hours (after 5.30pm weekdays) are classed as "overtime" and must be paid at 1.5 times the pay rate for weekdays and double time Sundays.
The LOWEST paid staff member in my factory works 6 days - 8am to 5.30pm with 1.5 hours for lunch daily. They are provided a shared dormitory with maximum 3 per unit and I provide a bed. I also provide a "common room" which has a refrigerator, washing machine, large communal table and cooking gear in a fitted out kitchen.
This person is paid 2900rmb and gets all of the extras above. I also just paid for them to have their teeth fixed as they are from the countryside and didn't place a great deal of importance on having good teeth so after discussions it turned out they simply didn't want to spend the money (not that they didn't have the money - they just didn't want to spend it on a dentist).
They are also given training on the workshop equipment such as MIG welder, lathe, Folding machine and other things - training that NO OTHER Chinese factory would give them.
I pride myself in looking after ALL of my staff and giving them conditions far better than they would get anywhere else.
For an exercise I just averaged all my staff wages and the average is 4680rmb (about AU$975 per month) - that is BRILLIANT money when you remember they have no other costs except food.
They also have more Government mandated public holidays than we do in Australia!
no dont average your staff tell us the girl on the production lines cost PER HOUR.
You are obviously a bit thick:
2900rmb (AU$604.17) divide by 8 hours a day for 20 days = $4 per hour PLUS all extras and accommodation.
That is the LOWEST paid person - 100% UNSKILLED - most others are getting double or triple that.
Keep the cost of living in perspective as well, a can of Coke costs $0.30 and a carton of 12 large beers is $6.60. A bus ticket is $0.25 for as many stops as you like and the average subway trip is around $0.40
Their $4 an hour goes a VERY long way.
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The girl on Mikes production line gets paid an amount of money that she obviously is happy with or she would leave and work for another boss in another factory.
Mike has obviously increased the amount of money and provided good conditions to attract and keep good staff.
It goes both ways, you look after your staff and they respect and like you. Mike is a white man in a Chineese country so he obviously has to make a good impression and abide by all laws and would be under a microscope from authorities.
Mikes employment has provid many families with food on the table. As a person who has employed many people for many years, that is something a boss feels proud about and helping other people prosper is rewarding.
I am not sure why some people want to go on a witch hunt when you will find nothing except a proud Aussie having a go.
And Ofcourse Everything Mike does is Australian owned. He is an Aussie with Aussie property and Aussie money and Aussie kids etc. Suggesting anything but is just stupid. Building a manufacturing plant in China is business sensible.
You can't do it in Australia now and make money. Any businessman surely knows that.
We are proud of you Mike. I am not the only person who is in your corner.
Every one I speak to is dam proud.
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Reported posts acknowledged and ban instated as per site rules.
Mike is big enough and ugly enough to look after himself (as he has done here) - so unless he asks the mods to clean up the thread, it will be left as is *%*
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mod hat off *%*
Industry / commercial hat on
I'm a retailer for the Licensed Homepin Hankin tables. The ONLY distributorships APR will look at are the "best of breed". The tables could be made in timbucktoo - using um-pa loompas to build it. I don't care. The homepin tables are certified to HIGHER than Australian standards. The other tables are not. They are all made in China.
Fluke made the worlds best test equipment. Made in China, but a little sticker says words to the effect "Parts made in the USA, assembled in China".
Mike has the same acumen as ALL the successful companies in our industry. They do it because they WANT to and not for profit. I'd like to know how many others have funded such a project when they could have invested it elsewhere for a high return. Mike's return is the satisfaction of completing a project that he WANTS to do. How many others can say that about such an investment ? Those that know mike and have talked to him know that he works because he enjoys the challenges and he is passionate about this venture.
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For the record - I did not report any posts.
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Objectors will be rounded up, sent to a farming community in China,s back settlements and employed in a gay bars or a Chineese brothel.
So who would like to make the first crap post cause you will be the prize winner !
Don't all rush to type. It's going to be a stampede and we are all toying to be eating Icecream whilst one luck person gets the famous gay time licked pop icecream.
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I don't report posts.
I usually create the ones that people report on. ! @.@ ^^^
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Well that was a surprise!!! Ha ha- all good. A shit fight keeps us all entertained from time to time.
Anyway, point being made and with others input I believe has been made.....
Ebay is like a loophole in the process of certification of standards. many Chinese small companies see Ebay as a market front to sell products to Western countries and it works well for them. But... the days of single importers distributing goods throughout Australia has long gone ( bar some products). Chinese manufacturers will sell single items to end users whereas before, you had to buy bulk and have quite a few $$'s behind you as well as storage etc.
The onus of safety used to be with the distributor.. you can buy what you like but that doesn't mean you can onsell what you like. Fines for selling non compliant goods are hefty to say the least. By going direct, you are bypassing this important step in the chain and it really is " buyer beware".
If you don't know how to determine if something is safe.. don't buy it. If you cant make it safe once determined... don't buy it.
Oh and remember... only the Chinese know how to make stainless that rusts..
LOL!!!!
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I'd just like to state my interest here. I am part of the um-pa loompas cooperative and would like to convey to all that we have been a repressed group when it comes to fair salary rates. Our current employer pays us in chocolates and no other benefits. We're dropping like flies with hardened arteries and obesity. Please support our cause before its too late.
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Ahhhhhhhhh yes, the Oompa Loompas.
They got out of working in chocolate factories and went into the dwarf throwing entertainment industry and I hear a few are doing well in Porno Movies. Snow White and the gang bang of the 7 dwarves was a recent hit.
I have even heard some Oompa Loompas are working at JJP and Stern. Under cabinet quality control.
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Oh and remember... only the Chinese know how to make stainless that rusts..
LOL!!!!
And elevators that decapitate/crush to death their citizenry.
I'd just like to state my interest here. I am part of the um-pa loompas cooperative and would like to convey to all that we have been a repressed group when it comes to fair salary rates. Our current employer pays us in chocolates and no other benefits. We're dropping like flies with hardened arteries and obesity. Please support our cause before its too late.
Any cooperative that has a conflicting ideology with the ruling Wonkarist Party will have its leadership liquidated and its rank and file members sent to the laogai for re-education. ^&(
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wankerism !!@ is ripe on this thread !!@
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wankerism !!@ is ripe on this thread !!@
You mean - "wonkerism".. :D
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Winkerism..
Seller contacted me saying they would refund $10 if I removed the negative feedback && &&
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Cripes, this thread makes for an interesting read. Think one member (who I assume is now on hiatus) may need an economics lesson. Mike u shld have reported Nino for calling you big & ugly :lol