The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Member Services => Sales and Services => Hot Rodded Pins => Topic started by: el_timbo86 on April 02, 2015, 08:44:03 PM
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Its been a long while since we have posted any playfield only work - so i figure doing 4 x Bally Embryon playfields at the same time could be a good way to get the ball rolling again $!&
As a primer to the following documentation, we (HRP) have been contracted to restore the set of playfields by Nino (APR). I believe at least two of the playfields documented here and being used in APR games. I am not sure who is carrying out the rebuild on the other two. Nino may be able to chime in here and elaborate.
Pictured here are the playfields as received. Each vary in condition - from very good...to very ROUGH (Nino's personal game %.%)...
Overview...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183334-39d6a1a0.jpg)
Overview of each playfield as received...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183342-7cf0397a.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183347-9afd4e87.jpg)
Ninos... @@^
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183352-c0b75431.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183356-566dfcb8.jpg)
Step one is to evaluate the true condition of each playfield, so the added mylar, glue, contact, grime, wax, texta, pencil, crayon etc etc must be removed...
This example had a HEAP of added overlays of various material...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183407-1343c03c.jpg)
Mylar and all extras are carefully removed from each playfield...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183444-448b7c02.jpg)
Once the material is removed, there is a considerable amount of glue that stays in the timber grain. This has to be thoroughly cleaned out to ensure our paint work correctly adheres to the surface
Chemical is applied to the surface to help soften the glue...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183448-8107026e.jpg)
This is just from the area between the flippers and slings, to help highlight the importance of this step...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183452-fae60561.jpg)
This is carried out on all playfields, and they are all sanded as clean as possible...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183456-5317fb52.jpg)
Shooter lanes are all smoothed up at this point as well - someone asked about how to refresh these so i may try to do a separate write-up on our method down the track.
At this point the playfields start to reflect the starting point for our work requirement...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183500-4f52f7c7.jpg)
All inserts get a light pressure from the back to test their adhesive at this point. All inserts were re-glued on all playfields in focus...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183436-48606c45.jpg)
Things like incorrect colour rollovers are noted and removed at this point. Of the 4 playfields only 1 playfield had quality rollovers that didnt need to be removed.
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183820-d486d5cc.jpg)
This particular playfield had an added rollover. Between conversations with the game owner, Nino, Daniel and Co - and considering the poor quality install job - it needed to go and wasn't part of Ballys prototyping history...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183817-5fe323c0.jpg)
Basically - the first step in our process is to remove whatever has been added to the playfield over its lifetime; get it in its original form and get it VERY clean.
The playfields are then sealed/cleared in their original state, damage included. Not only does this provide a more level surface for repair work, it also ensures that our repairs are going over the top of a new, thoroughly cleaned surface. There is very little 'bling' at this stage - the clear will be mostly sanded away when we begin the colour work...
Here are the playfields in the booth and ready to roll. An adhesion promoter is used at this point...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183856-ec81406d.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183905-46bbe4a3.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183910-69c09a24.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183914-f96b11de.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402183924-985a12a6.jpg)
The following images are of the fresh, cleared playfields. They will look very textured, but this will settle as the clear cures...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402184022-7ba3743a.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402184026-c876ad7c.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402184017-125fef2d.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/photos/upload/2015/04/02/20150402184013-759473a6.jpg)
Ill leave the post here for now. Stage 1 is now complete and i will update this thread once we get into the repaints and other processes used in stage 2.
Ill do my best to answer questions people have about the process as we go along as well so feel free to post in here.
Big thanks to APR for lining this project up. Its a great opportunity for the owners of these games and further demonstrates the services on offer between the HRP/APR partnership.
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Really looking forward to following your progress.
Are you willing to share the name of the product you use to clean and remove the mylar adhesive with?
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#*# Superb work Tim! Will be an interesting thread for sure!
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Informative and valuable thread.
Nice work and thanks for sharing.
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Look forward to this one seeing one is mine this time. Will these be on your site as well?
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This has been a long process already.
The story started around three years ago when I purchased Wotto's Embryon. I've always wanted one, and I didn't care about the condition. This is a keeper. The second game was a customer's, which was brought down with another game for restoration. So now I have two games. Tim and Stu form Platinum Pinball / HRP and amongst many discussions, these playfields were brought up. A unique opportunity to do two playfields. One for my game and one for a customer. I helped another customer buy Steve's (Steve2010) Embryon. A really nice example, but with a couple of issues that could benefit from a touch up and clear. I then spoke to Rob (Pinball God), and his needed work. So these two games had their playfields dropped off. They will be restored by Tim and Stu, and then I will re assemble these two playfields. I will have two separate restoration threads on the customer's Embryon and my Personal Embryon.
In summary - here is a unique opportunity to have four Embryon playfields in one room at one time (not done since the production line ?). This will showcase Tim and Stu's incredible skills, and APR will continue the re assembly of two of the playfields and the NIB restoration of two other games. Simply put - this is a VERY unique opportunity.
In addition - Members can see how much effort is put into this type of work - not just the process of stripping and assembling - but the preparation and the detail that is part of this level of work. It is a really unique opportunity to showcase the services NOW available through our respective business'.
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Tim definitely does some nice work
Have had a few playfields and machines restored by him.
Love threads like this and watching the transformation
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Great work Tim & Stu.
Amazing skills and cannot wait to see the end result. I think its fair to say there would not be too many pinball restorers in the world doing 4 Embryon playfields at once.
I think you win that contest &&
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Awesome project to take on, I'll be looking forward to the updates. 4 very lucky Embryon owners.
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Look forward to this one seeing one is mine this time. Will these be on your site as well?
Same here, I dont know why I always get called a customer when I'm a paying member ???
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Look forward to this one seeing one is mine this time. Will these be on your site as well?
Same here, I dont know why I always get called a customer when I'm a paying member #@#
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Customers a better name than Tim calls me so I'd take it as a win and enjoy your finished Playfield lol %.%
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Customers a better name than Tim calls me so I'd take it as a win and enjoy your finished Playfield lol %.%
[/quote
lol yeah but I wiould still ike to be reckonised as a member after the amount of contracts ive had with apr...]
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Is there a financial point where just buying a new Playfield is better than repairing the old one then add clear cost ? Assuming the new playfield is a avail then u have international ship costs plus purchase.
Must be a close call on some jobs. Which do you do, restore or replace ?
Is that a valid question ? For others thinking about this process. ?
The work is amazing.
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Is there a financial point where just buying a new Playfield is better than repairing the old one then add clear cost ? Assuming the new playfield is a avail then u have international ship costs plus purchase.
Must be a close call on some jobs. Which do you do, restore or replace ?
Is that a valid question ? For others thinking about this process. ?
The work is amazing.
Prior to taking on any High End Restoration, part of the research is to ascertain if a NOS playfield is available, or, if CPR are looking to reproduce this title. Being the CPR Distributor, I knew the plastics set was coming, and there are no immediate plans to repro the playfield or backglass "at this time". This may change in the future - but at the time this opportunity presented itself, it was not an option. Even if it was, there's at least an 18 month wait for CPR to complete their current pre order list. Given my playfield is one of the four, I would not wait anyway - and I can assure you, this would not be an option for the other owners.
Looking from the point of view of repro VS restored.
If there are no plans to repro, then restoration is the ONLY method. I sat on my playfield for 3 years. If Tim and Stu were not going to restore mine, I'd wait until a repro is done, or, source a NOS. Wait until you see the "before" and "after" photos on mine - there's no way anyone would attempt that. If I was to send overseas to Bill Davis etc - there's at least a 5 year wait. I'm not even sure they would accept it. BEFORE I bought the game off Wotto, i was promised a NOS from a well known Pinball Collector - that turned out to be a pipedream (Not Wotto).
So let's assume a repro IS available. Landing a playfield from CPR is around $1100 per playfield - that includes shipping at the current Aussie dollar rate. The old playfield still has to be removed and replaced with the repro. So labour casts to do this are the same for REPRO and RESTORED. The restoration of these playfields is slightly more than that.
The options are ;
Leave "as is" and just play the game.
Restore the game as "best effort" with what is available at the time.
In this case, there is no option. Given I've seen Tim and Stu's work, I have no problem with the restoration over waiting years for a repro that might never happen, as it provides the Embryon owners with the best possible outcome. What is often overlooked, it the amount of hours that are spent simply prepping the games - it takes 8 hours just to STRIP the playfield. Documentation takes time - this is BEFORE Tim and Stu have the blank playfield.
Some owners WANT their original playfields restored. So even if a repro is available, they still want their restored.
I just received Evel Knievel playfields, and they are amazing. this could be the only field worth a repro as it is predominatly white, and would need a lot of work on an original, but I digress..
I hope i answered the question !
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Customers a better name than Tim calls me so I'd take it as a win and enjoy your finished Playfield lol %.%
[/quote
lol yeah but I wiould still ike to be reckonised as a member after the amount of contracts ive had with apr...]
Fair enough. I tried to get the wife to recognise my member but she wasn't interested ;)
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Yes it did.
It was mainly for people who wondered what they should do, replace playfield if avail or get orig restored.
Financially it is probably a close end cost.
This is where it gets tricky if the NOS or Repro playfield is avail.
I think it's best the person takes lots of photos and gets a quote from APR and El Timbo before deciding.
Either way, most people don't have the skill to do the work, so new playfield or restored playfield, the game will prob end up in your good hands anyway.
And I agree, the work to strip and then rebuild a playfield is immense. 50 min to 100 hrs plus worth of work easily.
It's a huge job to say the least. Very specialised. It's great people have these services available.
Anyone who can do this successfully must have a lot of patience and a good memory, photos or not.
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If the playfield is not being reproduced, then going down this path is the only option other than leaving the game "as is". It is a 10-20% difference in cost (the restoration of the playfield only). I would like to add that the clearcoat that HRP / Platinum offer is the high end of the market. CPR, Mirco and the smaller repro guys don't use the same level of workmanship on the clears.
I have 6 Addams Family High End Restorations coming up and only TWO want repro playfields. The others want their original repaired and cleared by Tim and Stu. It is all about choice. Most that have seen their work ASK specifically for their services.
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Hey guys,
Well, the Embryon project has been completed and figured i best finish off the thread updates.
It has been a fantastic project, i am sure all of APR's customers will be very happy. The playfields presented a few solid challenges - some new, some encountered before. But here is a look into the process and the results as well.
Working through the major damage on Nino's playfield here. You can see the extent of the damage here...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103084954-35ba2f05.jpg)
Refinishing the 'white' sections on Nino's example...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103084957-9a27caf2.jpg)
All of the grey sections are repainted, either through use of the airbrush or brush in fine detail areas.
Alot of Nino's playfield was carried out at home after hours due to the massive labour requirement...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103084959-025a86c6.jpg)
After all the major damage had been repaired, it was back into the booth to be cleared again. This locks in the repair work, and begins to level out the surface...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085031-805c747b.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085039-c639bfc8.jpg)
This is another playfield. This had an extra star rollover and a few other questionable repairs/additions...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085110-cd03bc2c.jpg)
You can see here the added rollover hole, and the amount of wear that was lurking under all the extra mylar and contact...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085113-54479c98.jpg)
A plywood bung was made for this repair, and a fibre-mixed filler was used to help blend and bind the repair to the playfield...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085152-024b4435.jpg)
Results...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085203-ab86e05e.jpg)
Beginning similar repairs on this playfield now. Basically the same approach on each Embryon 4 times where required...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085230-fc55c7f1.jpg)
Whites lightly refreshed...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085236-fa92a06d.jpg)
This was another Embryon, this had a couple of major repairs - but many minor ones. Grey and whites had already been corrected in this picture...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085251-c74d6894.jpg)
Whites on another Embryon...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085248-8867e1bf.jpg)
The above was carried out time and time again until all colours were sprayed. We finished the repairs with all the black keylines, hand painted and got the playfields ready to clear. Insert decals were created by us and used only where required. The following photos are of the four playfields in the booth prior to clearcoating...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085601-720b46c5.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085606-b1fee6b0.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085609-888592cf.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085613-a49db4f5.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085617-8fd428b9.jpg)
Upper section of Nino's playfield...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085629-5d9fd126.jpg)
Mid of Nino's...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085633-12db503b.jpg)
All cleared and ready to sand and polish in the next few days...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085708-5cca08b0.jpg)
All the playfields were left to cure, they were then sanded and polished. Given it was a very bright day, playfields were photographed inside to capture the detail...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085711-315f2a23.jpg)
Embryon 1...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085714-6ee8e19d.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085718-58f827c4.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085722-26da12a7.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085725-90a0865a.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085728-4e5ca15a.jpg)
Embryon 2...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085731-76fcc07a.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085735-b4c399d9.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085738-09f6f50d.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085747-5385a64b.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085750-6d54e1ec.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085753-9b9e8c8b.jpg)
Embryon 3... (will add photos from other camera, battery died)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085813-7475519e.jpg)
Embryon 4...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085816-54710bc3.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085820-b190e217.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085823-3762ae32.jpg)
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085826-18ae21bc.jpg)
And that was that. The Embryon project complete. Just a big thanks to APR for organising this project. It has been a great opportunity for us down here. Also to Daniel (ddstoys) for helping with the replacement inserts and new star rollovers...
(http://pinsbytim.com.au/gallery/upload/2015/11/03/20151103085832-aaaff83d.jpg)
I hope everyone has enjoyed reading about this one, certainly one of the bigger projects we have taken on.
Looking forward to an even bigger 2016 :D
Tim
HRP ^^^
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These playfields were dropped late last week, and it was like we were unwrapping Christmas presents. They look amazing. Pictures will never do them justice. A BIG thanks to Tim and Stu - who make these projects a reality. A special thanks to the owners who trusted us with their playfields.
My personal playfield was almost a complete write off. I cannot believe how nice it is !
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Looks magic - well done on the massive unique project - look forward to Nino finishing these off ^^^
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Only got to see these half finished and even then they looked amazing. Can't wait to see them
Back in games never played an embryon
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Great work Tim and Stuart, they look amazing! Just incredible how well these have come up.
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This project and its outcome is simply phenomenal! To take these playfields as they were and transform them to what they are now is just wow. Would be a sin to put them in a battered cab, so hope the cabs will compliment these PFs.
Embryon is Bally's best widebody IMHO, would hardly say it's slow moving. There's such an array of things to shoot for, fantastic title.
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This project and its outcome is simply phenomenal! To take these playfields as they were and transform them to what they are now is just wow. Would be a sin to put them in a battered cab, so hope the cabs will compliment these PFs.
Embryon is Bally's best widebody IMHO, would hardly say it's slow moving. There's such an array of things to shoot for, fantastic title.
I think it is great that collectors can now have the option of having their playfields professionally restored. I know Aussie collectors that sent playfields overseas and waiting 5 years before they were completed. These were ALL done in 12 months. My part of the job is easy, what Tim and Stu do is ART. It is not just masking off and airbrushing. You really have to LOVE what you do to be a perfectionist and know you are not receiving the full value in terms of $ for effort.
Just on the four playfields - they were all completely different. the colours were not uniform across all playfields. Tim and Stu worked with the palette of "worn" or "aged" colours. It keeps each playfield unique. The factory colours were not uniform and this is translated to these playfields.
Two cabinets are being completely restored. My only hurdle is the stencils are so horrifically misregistered and BADLY created that I've spent a lot of time correcting them and I've almost abandoned using them. but we are working on a better solution - just hope it does not take too long.