The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: Brettski on October 08, 2015, 01:17:07 AM
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Almost finished Cleopatra but have a few little teething problems..
I have a new Pascal 4in1 board and when I boot up it says check coils, I disconnect the knocker and it boots up ok until it tries to fire then the check coil message appears again.
Checked the coil and all is good, diode OK too. checked double checked then tried it in Sinbad and it works fine.
All connectors except displays have been repinned (they are next) so I am at a loss here, could it be the board?
Any insight appreciated.
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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That is exactly the same issue I was having with my board.
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=14122.0
Pascal believes it's either a diode or transistor on the board that is the problem. You should have got a spare one of each of those with the board.
Check the driver transistor Q1 on the board (just above A3J2). Also check the diode just below Q1.
I still haven't fixed mine. I tried desoldering the diode to start with and simply cannot get it out. I think the fact I have a $15-20 dick smith soldering iron might be part of the problem. %.% I don't think it's getting hot enough.
So Im still waiting for a mate to come round with his Hollywood version and will try again then, since I don't want to screw up a nice new board. I might have to finally upgrade to a decent one myself.
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That is exactly the same issue I was having with my board.
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=14122.0
Pascal believes it's either a diode or transistor on the board that is the problem. You should have got a spare one of each of those with the board.
Check the driver transistor Q1 on the board (just above A3J2). Also check the diode just below Q1.
I still haven't fixed mine. I tried desoldering the diode to start with and simply cannot get it out. I think the fact I have a $15-20 dick smith soldering iron might be part of the problem. %.% I don't think it's getting hot enough.
So Im still waiting for a mate to come round with his Hollywood version and will try again then, since I don't want to screw up a nice new board. I might have to finally upgrade to a decent one myself.
Why wait, they are cheap enough:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331271359481
Get yourself some spare tips some small and some larger ones too at the same time.
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Ok so something like that one in the link is fine?
I wasn't sure since it still seemed too cheap.
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Hey Brett
If it turns out to be the transistor or diode I might be able to drop by one arvo and do the soldering if you need. You should buy a couple of transistors and diodes if you need them. Nothing worse than putting a new one in and blowing it straight away.
Dan
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Hey Brett
If it turns out to be the transistor or diode I might be able to drop by one arvo and do the soldering if you need. You should buy a couple of transistors and diodes if you need them. Nothing worse than putting a new one in and blowing it straight away.
Dan
Thanks Dan I really appreciate that offer!
I don't trust myself with a brand new board. It came with a couple of spare components including a transistor, I am going to get in touch with Pascal Jamin as I can't really see where else it might be. There are plenty of instructions out there for testing an original board but not for the PI-1 X4.
Anyway we will keep at until an answer comes along.
I will keep you updated and may take you up on that offer.
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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Ok so something like that one in the link is fine?
I wasn't sure since it still seemed too cheap.
I've been using one of these for over a year now, it does a great job.
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That is exactly the same issue I was having with my board.
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=14122.0
Pascal believes it's either a diode or transistor on the board that is the problem. You should have got a spare one of each of those with the board.
Check the driver transistor Q1 on the board (just above A3J2). Also check the diode just below Q1.
I still haven't fixed mine. I tried desoldering the diode to start with and simply cannot get it out. I think the fact I have a $15-20 dick smith soldering iron might be part of the problem. %.% I don't think it's getting hot enough.
So Im still waiting for a mate to come round with his Hollywood version and will try again then, since I don't want to screw up a nice new board. I might have to finally upgrade to a decent one myself.
Hey thanks Slash, It is what I have been suspecting and you have pointed me in the right direction. I see I have a transistor in the spare bits that came with the board but I would like to get a few spares so does any one know what rating/type they are so I can ask for them at Jaycar?
Dan already knows what I can do to a board so I might take him up on his offer !)#
Thanks heaps for the reply and pointing me to your post.
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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According to Pascal Q1 is a BDW93C transistor.
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According to Pascal Q1 is a BDW93C transistor.
You can confirm this by reading the print on the transistor. This number should be printed on there.
If you have no luck finding them or an equivalent at Jaycar you can find them at RS online. Don't forget some diodes as well!
http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/discrete-semiconductors/darlington-transistors/?searchTerm=BDW93C&h=s&sra=oss&redirect-relevancy-data=636F3D3226696E3D4931384E4B6E6F776E41734D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E5B5C707B4C7D5C707B4E647D2D2C2F255C2E5D2B2426706F3D313326736E3D592673743D4D414E5F504152545F4E554D4245522677633D424F5448267573743D42445739334326 (http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/discrete-semiconductors/darlington-transistors/?searchTerm=BDW93C&h=s&sra=oss&redirect-relevancy-data=636F3D3226696E3D4931384E4B6E6F776E41734D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E5B5C707B4C7D5C707B4E647D2D2C2F255C2E5D2B2426706F3D313326736E3D592673743D4D414E5F504152545F4E554D4245522677633D424F5448267573743D42445739334326)
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Brettski before doing the Transistor have you confirmed no mistake was made when you re-pinned the plugs? One wire out of order or a bad connection is all it take.
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Thought I would provide an update. A couple of weeks ago I desoldered the diode, then transistor. Turns out the transistor was faulty as suspected.
I replaced that and the knocker coil finally works BUT it knocks pathetically. It seems to barely make it up to knock, it sounds more like a tap than a knock. Plus the coil is getting really hot.
My next question is have I got the wrong knocker coil. I replaced the one that was in there with a brand new Gottlieb one of the same type A-1496 but I am now wondering if it's the wrong coil. A check of my Buck Rogers manual and it lists all the coils in the game except... the knocker coil. The Gottlieb manual for that era doesn't list it either. Can anyone tell me what coil should be in a system 1 knocker?
After fixing the knocker (somewhat) I noticed about 4 different switches suddenly not working so next thing will be to track that friggin problem down. ^&^
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My first thought is "have you used the correct transistor?"
BDW types are typically darlington transistors with MUCH higher gain than "ordinary" transistors and that could be why the coil doesn't thump like it should? There are also many different pinouts - don't assume a replacement will have the ECB in the same order that the PCB requires.
Also, if the coil is getting hot it suggests that there is a continuous current flowing through it it? Does the replacement transistor have the same pinout as the original? This could account for both issues if the pinout is different from the PCB - coil hot AND weak knock???
Thought I would provide an update. A couple of weeks ago I desoldered the diode, then transistor. Turns out the transistor was faulty as suspected.
I replaced that and the knocker coil finally works BUT it knocks pathetically. It seems to barely make it up to knock, it sounds more like a tap than a knock. Plus the coil is getting really hot.
My next question is have I got the wrong knocker coil. I replaced the one that was in there with a brand new Gottlieb one of the same type A-1496 but I am now wondering if it's the wrong coil. A check of my Buck Rogers manual and it lists all the coils in the game except... the knocker coil. The Gottlieb manual for that era doesn't list it either. Can anyone tell me what coil should be in a system 1 knocker?
After fixing the knocker (somewhat) I noticed about 4 different switches suddenly not working so next thing will be to track that friggin problem down. ^&^
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The transistor should be fine as it was the spare one that came in the bag with the board from Pascal and he told me to use that one when I was troubleshooting the problem with him a couple of months ago.
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Normally a knocker should be a A-5194, the same as a kicker coil or A-5195 the same as a chime coil but A-1496 should still be fine
It shouldn't get hot as it is not used very much
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Thought I would post a video of the knocker coil, sorry the video is sideways the coil is installed vertically, but it gives you an idea of what's going on. It just can't seem to hit the end to make the knock noise.
http://tinypic.com/r/1jninn/9 (http://tinypic.com/r/1jninn/9)
On a separate note shortly after I got the knocker coil working (albeit pretty pathetically) the game decided it doesn't want to let me play it anymore. When I turn it on it appears to go through the start up procedure with no problems but it won't let me start a game when I hit the start/credit button. I was playing a game when it first happened and it just stopped working like I had tilted it, but now it won't let me start a new game.
The button/switch is fine because I can use it when going through the diagnostics/menu etc.
I have done a video of the start up procedure to see if anybody can spot anything dodgy. I have run through the switch as well as coil tests and everything appears to be fine??? I'm ready to put this POS on the verge ^&^
http://tinypic.com/r/kejiuq/9 (http://tinypic.com/r/kejiuq/9)
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You've got the plunger upside down
The plastic bit is supposed to strike the frame not the other end
Is the game in freeplay?
You don't have any credits displayed so if it's not i freeplay then it won't start
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lol - is that right re the plunger. Rookie error !@) I will switch it around now.
Second rookie error no credits. !@) !@) I'm not used to having to do that, I wonder if the pascal board has a free play setting, I will have to read the manual.
Funny how a video can trouble shoot stuff in seconds. I appreciate the help.
Just gotta find out why my vari target and star rollovers have never worked and then I think it's all good!
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There is definitely a freeplay mode, it's one of the great extra features with that board.
I believe the Pascal board displays "99" in the credits when it's set to freeplay mode.
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Cool I will have a look for it now.
Just swapped the plunger around then and it's knocking beautifully now. !@)
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Sorry, but a had a chuckle at this.
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Glad I can give something back to the community %.%
In my defence re. the knocker coil, I put it back together exactly as the pictures I took before disassembly. I should have known better as whoever tinkered with this machine before me put quite a bit of stuff on incorrectly, e.g. the pop bumpers were wired in reverse when I got it (I found out about that the hard way too).
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To be honest, I didn't pick up either of the issues myself. #@#
Good eye Boots.
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I contacted Pascal at FLIPP regarding the board and he said what Slash said above, it is the tran at Q1 for the knocker coil.
As you will see by the attached picture it really is that transistor, the big hole in it gives it away! ;)
Interesting thing is I was getting a second coil warning which I thought I detected by disconnecting the wires to the left slingshot coil.
Pascal informs me that the slingshot coils are not CPU controlled and fire directly from the switch which makes this problem interesting, the problem I have now is that the displays have failed and unable to go any further until they are fixed. it seems there is a short in one of the displays. Trick here is the fuse on the board has done it's job and blown and I have One spare! to test the displays by disconnecting them and trying them one by one, good-bye spare fuse!
I will order some spare fuses and extra transistors and diodes from Pascal then I can move forward and check whats going on with the coil warnings etc. Euro and Shipping is a bit hexy but got to do what you got to do and so close now! :)
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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Can you temporarily fit an inline fuse with a lower rating than the pascal fuse?
Do you have another sys1 to test them on?
Have you visually inspected the displays or tested them with a multimeter?
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Mate that looks nasty
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I will order some spare fuses and extra transistors and diodes from Pascal then I can move forward and check whats going on with the coil warnings etc. Euro and Shipping is a bit hexy but got to do what you got to do and so close now! :)
Hey Brett, Sure you can't get the parts locally? The fuse must be fairly standard I would of thought?
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Here is a pic of the spare fuse, it is a 100ma. The original is supposed to be 80ma. The tiny little prongs make it quite limited I think.
It is a two prong fuse and small as you can see but I don't know where to get them locally, I tried Jaycar but no go and couldn't find them at RS-Online.
It would be good to find the other components locally and in one place but I haven't had any luck. You might have better resources Dan, here are the parts Pascal has available. http://www.flippp.fr/spare.php
Chris I have another System 1 (Sinbad) with a Ni-Wumpf board but how would I go about this without causing trouble with this board? Let me know what you had in mind here as I might not be thinking about it right! :)
It does look Bad Pinball God! All was good except what I described above so once the displays are sorted out and Q1 replaced we will see how it goes! :)
Cheers guys appreciate any thing you can suggest here.
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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BDW93C readily available from RS Components..
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/darlington-transistors/4859042/
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That's a PCB fuse.. RS should have them. If not can solder in any fuse
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You have the 4in1 pascal board right?
The niwumpf runs the original gottlieb power supply where the pascal is all in one board.
You should be able to eliminate the shorted display by comparing it to the others with your multimeter
Check the 60 volt line back to ground on the disconnected displays one will show a short
You may even be able to see a burnt ic and the multimeter will confirm
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That's a PCB fuse.. RS should have them. If not can solder in any fuse
Thanks Retro Pin, Dan had already pointed me to those transistors but I didn't know it was a pcb fuse I was looking for, that changes the game! well done. :)
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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Did you find them?
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/non-resettable-wire-ended-fuses/2260557/
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Did you find them?
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/non-resettable-wire-ended-fuses/2260557/
Thanks Retro Pin, the link helped now I need to find these at RS (BZW06-64V transil diode) and I can get all the spares I need and at a good price. :)
Chris, I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around your suggestion but will look at it again tomorrow with a clear head.
Cheers: Brettski... :)
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Thanks Dan (DSB) for coming over today and repairing my board, no more solenoid issues. Made my day and glad you enjoyed playing the old school machines.
When I bought it there were digits missing in the credit displays and the same problem was there with the new 4 in 1 board so today I repinned the connectors on that display and same thing missing/fading digits so I swapped the credit displays from Sinbad with Cleopatra and bingo they are both good. Strange as it doesn't make sense to me but glad it's fixed.
I recently had the display fuse blow on the pascal board so I replaced the fuse and removed all display connectors then turned it on, all good so started adding the displays one by one turning off in between of course. All went good from 1 - 3 including credit/ball display so I am assuming it is the forth one, waiting on fuses to arrive to check the last display and go from there.
This almost completes this project except for the Photoshop Artwork for the backglass replacement which I am slowly chipping away at!
To top the day off I went and bought a 1978 Charlies Angels that isn't too bad compared to Cleopatra so this one is going to get a freshen up not a complete resto.
Thanks to everyone for their input and help on this project, you guy's rock! it would be a frustrating struggle without you.
Regards: Brettski... :)
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No Worries mate! You have done a great job restoring those machines. They look awesome and played super fast and smooth.