The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => Suggestions? => Topic started by: markc on August 10, 2010, 09:14:55 PM
-
with all the talk going around here and whats a reco machine , how many pins sales till you are deemed a commercial seller ?
most know I import over 500 a year and yes I think that's makes me a commercial seller , i also have now close to 20 machines at home ( and around the place) and feel I am a collector too
not sure how to do a Poll
so would it be 10 sales plus a year ?
20 plus
1 container ( 25 -37 )
2 containers or more ?
also some do it all for cash , some have a ABN
-
I would say that when you buy machines in quantity to sell your are doing it commercially.
-
I would say that when you buy machines in quantity to sell your are doing it commercially.
I agree Rads.
Selling off your own collection that you have collected over time or even after a couple months of playing and tinkering is IMO a private sale.
Any machines that are imported or even bought with the intention of turning them over rather than purchased for genuine want of a machine to me is a comercial venture.
Weather it's a truck load or 2,3,4 containers.
My 2 cents..
-
Or another way of looking at commercialism - specifically in relation to AP - is what percentage of your posts have an underlying commercial motive.
-
I thought the question was "how many machines does it take till you are a professional/commercial seller".
PROFESSIONAL to me would mean you do this full-time for a living and have an ABN etc, A Registered company etc, and know what you are doing.
I am certain companies like Mark C, Bikecity, Ken Priest, Tony Turner, Bumper all fit this professional label. All have been around for years and are fulltime experts I would feel.
COMMERCIAL SELLER could be anyone who sells machines to make money.
The key word here is Professional. You can sell 1 machine or 1000 and be professional.
Anyone can import a container and have a go.Dont mean they are Professional or know what they are doing.
When u have a Professional and Commercial seller combined, you would be dealing with the companies in green. My 2 cents worth.
-
I would say that when you buy machines in quantity to sell your are doing it commercially.
so is that a container ? or more
20 foot container is 25 - 37
40 foot is upto 77
well thats what we get others might get more if you have Ems , SS and so on
mark
-
Or another way of looking at commercialism - specifically in relation to AP - is what percentage of your posts have an underlying commercial motive.
now would that be most's posts by any sponsor ? or just the posts in their sections ?
as all my posts have my web sites linked in them I am guessing all my posts are
like anyone who has theres
mark
-
Could be any number. In my opinion, if you buy them to resell then you are doing it commercially, regardless of the quantity. Your professionalism is a seperate issue that doen't need to be addressed again. The title of the thread included professionalism and/commercialism. I was answering the question in the post.
-
I thought the question was "how many machines does it take till you are a professional/commercial seller".
PROFESSIONAL to me would mean you do this full-time for a living and have an ABN etc, A Registered company etc, and know what you are doing.
I am certain companies like Mark C, Bikecity, Ken Priest, Tony Turner, Bumper all fit this professional label. All have been around for years and are fulltime experts I would feel.
COMMERCIAL SELLER could be anyone who sells machines to make money.
The key word here is Professional. You can sell 1 machine or 1000 and be professional.
Anyone can import a container and have a go.Dont mean they are Professional or know what they are doing.
When u have a Professional and Commercial seller combined, you would be dealing with the companies in green. My 2 cents worth.
hence why it was Commercial or Professional , both are different
i do agree though anyone who brings in a container of pins and sells them off is a commercial
and more so the professionals are more of a full time , but I can tell you some of the so called back yarders work is BLOODY GOOD
hence why we advertised here , and will announce 2 more people we are giving some board work to try , and I have offered a member here a full time Job
mark
-
Could be any number. In my opinion, if you buy them to resell then you are doing it commercially, regardless of the quantity. Your professionalism is a seperate issue that doen't need to be addressed again. The title of the thread included professionalism and/commercialism. I was answering the question in the post.
wasn't meaning to me , more so what people think makes someone commercial , but thanks for the reply and I do agree
mark
-
Could be any number. In my opinion, if you buy them to resell then you are doing it commercially, regardless of the quantity. Your professionalism is a seperate issue that doen't need to be addressed again. The title of the thread included professionalism and/commercialism. I was answering the question in the post.
wasn't meaning to me , more so what people think makes someone commercial , but thanks for the reply and I do agree
mark
When I said your I didn't mean your as in you. Didn't want your (as in yours) thread to go down another path.
-
Could be any number. In my opinion, if you buy them to resell then you are doing it commercially, regardless of the quantity. Your professionalism is a seperate issue that doen't need to be addressed again. The title of the thread included professionalism and/commercialism. I was answering the question in the post.
wasn't meaning to me , more so what people think makes someone commercial , but thanks for the reply and I do agree
mark
When I said your I didn't mean your as in you. Didn't want your (as in yours) thread to go down another path.
I think I understand .... and agree
thanks
mark
-
I would say that when you buy machines in quantity to sell your are doing it commercially.
I agree Rads.
Selling off your own collection that you have collected over time or even after a couple months of playing and tinkering is IMO a private sale.
Any machines that are imported or even bought with the intention of turning them over rather than purchased for genuine want of a machine to me is a comercial venture.
Weather it's a truck load or 2,3,4 containers.
My 2 cents..
Spot on I think. If a machine/s are bought for the sole purpose of on selling to make a profit that would have to be considered commercial.
I have difficulty with the 'professional' term - to me that means someone or a business that trades or performs at an elite level. There was one trader in that green section mentioned earlier that whilst commercial I don't think should be classed as professional speaking from mine and others' experience. Just my honest opinion.
-
OK - I'll bite.
The most professional repairers and restorers do not necessarily work for commercial dealers. This is a myth.
Working for a commercial seller does not automatically bequeath or annoint a pinball backyarder to "Pinball Tech God"
-
OK - I'll bite.
The most professional repairers and restorers do not necessarily work for commercial dealers. This is a myth.
Working for a commercial seller does not automatically bequeath or annoint a pinball backyarder to "Pinball Tech God"
no such thing as a PINBALL TECH GOD
as i said some of the best people are part timers or backyarders
good techs learn everyday !
-
I'd drop the term 'professional', and instead concentrate on commercial.
Professional can indicate that it is of someone's profession - meaning how they make their living, or it can simply mean that someone is an expert on the topic. You can be an expert, but not make your living on something, as it may be a hobby for you, or a former profession.
Example: I decide to close my business tomorrow, but I keep some pins around. After a period of time, I decide to sell one of my machines because my wife wants a nice lamp or vase in the gameroom, and the only way to make room is to get rid of the game I no longer play. The work on the game may be 'professional', the work I do on it to get it ready for sale is 'professional', but I am not a commercial seller. I'm just a guy selling a pin who knows a lot about the subject.
And the opposite way to look into it. Let's say my business slows, and I only sell 1 game a year. I'm still commercial, as I am still running a business. I'm just not doing much with the business!
A commercial seller is someone who runs a business. Someone who collects and pays taxes.
There are commercial sellers of any good with zero skills, and there are commercial sellers of that good with amazing skills.
There are hobbyist sellers of any good with zero skills, and there are hobbyist sellers of that good with amazing skills.
I would say people should self-police themselves. If there is a need for a commercial vs private designation on this site, the people running a commercial entity should put their stuff in their section.
-
Probably the only authority that could answer that question is the australian taxation office,i guess at tax time they decide if 1+ container makes you a commercial seller or 5+ pins makes you a commercial seller,but when it comes to the ATO i guess it will be whatever suits them.They are going through ebay at the moment and according to them any sales over $20,000 a year they are looking at so i guess thats the answer to how many sales till your a commercial seller? $20,000 worth.
-
anyone who sells more than 20k on ebay is a power seller
ebay sent all records to the tax office a few years ago ,
they did this approx 3 years ago i think , and now they sending all records again from last 3 years
they do catch allot of people out this way I am guessing
who dont either have a company or dont declare the sales , can see a few getting hit with back GST payments too
so really anyone who brings in a container is a commercial , is that people are thinking ?
if you bring them in to re sell , mind you i bring in some personal pins in my containers too '
like my pinball magic , Big Bang Bar and so on
-
In the US, eBay and PayPal are going to start reporting to the IRS in January of 2012 for 2011 sales. To be reported in the states, you have to have *both* more than 200 sales and 20k in total sales - so you could sell 199 items for 20k+, or 200+ items for under 20k, and not get reported.
Lots of people are up in arms about this, saying how it's not fair etc. What's not fair is the guys selling that quantity of stuff and not reporting, while those of us who sell legitimately and claim the income get taxed!
They also mistakenly think they will be taxed on 20k if they sell 20k. Should realize that 20k sales is not 20k profit. But, I could complain about that all day long and it wouldn't make a difference :)
-
In the US, eBay and PayPal are going to start reporting to the IRS in January of 2012 for 2011 sales. To be reported in the states, you have to have *both* more than 200 sales and 20k in total sales - so you could sell 199 items for 20k+, or 200+ items for under 20k, and not get reported.
Lots of people are up in arms about this, saying how it's not fair etc. What's not fair is the guys selling that quantity of stuff and not reporting, while those of us who sell legitimately and claim the income get taxed!
They also mistakenly think they will be taxed on 20k if they sell 20k. Should realize that 20k sales is not 20k profit. But, I could complain about that all day long and it wouldn't make a difference :)
at the end of the day its all about the taxes..... we all want to pay as less as we can *%*
but these that don't report will get caught in the end ,
the amusement industry here , is well known for so much cash and the GST police keep a very close eye on this
we have been investigated , only last year and all was fine but I am sure there are others that don't report anything at all
they do match up paperwork i can tell you that , keep your container records and ebay sales and site sales
dont forget customs and the tax office match up import records to your sales records to work out profit
so keep all your paperwork
we have every transaction from our web sites and ebay sales recorded
mark
-
A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... #@#
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)
Anyone bringing a container?
Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.
I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)
There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.
These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)
NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.
-
I'm a commercial buyer of pinball just haven't had a chance to sell any. #@#
-
A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... #@#
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)
Anyone bringing a container?
Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.
I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)
There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.
These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)
NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.
Great post Shansta - You are right - I brought in a container last year as a hobbyist and collector. Some people I know drive $60,000 - $80,000 cars, I bought a container and kept my EL wagon ^^^. I don't own a swimming pool or tennis court !
I've sold three fully restored (and documented here) machines, to members here on AP. I brought in two machines for Gavin (Rally Comics and Bally Star Trek). Some games are set up in my gamesroom (as is working). My motivation is to have a constant restoration queue and at the end of it, have a gamesroom (or basement) full of EMs and SS machines. I've got 20 years to sit on these machine and enjoy every singe restoration. In that time, the $60,000 car won't be worth $60,000 any more and my machines will still be there, played and enjoyed by my children. I will sell some of them - to fund more project machines etc.. But they will be restored.
I personally encourage people to bring in containers, but keep in mind that Dealers do this for a living, so if the motivation is to make a profit - It will not be easy to compete with established Businesses. In fact, it will be almost impossible unless you have a building to store and repair the games, staff to recondition the machines, a salesroom, after sales support - the list goes on.
An importer of containers is not necessarily a Commercial Seller, a dealer or a hobbyist. My Father was an operator who was bringing in containers before most of us here were born. No such thing as a dealer in the 50's and 60's !
-
A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... #@#
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)
Anyone bringing a container?
Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.
I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)
There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.
These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)
NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.
thanks mate
now go back under the rock you have been hiding under *)* *)* *)* *)* *)*
how ya been ? long time ?
and yes I agree anyone who brings a container in to sell is a dealer/ commercial
dont forget once you hit 70k , you must pay GST on that ....
'but also get to claim back the GST you have paid too
-
thanks mate
now go back under the rock you have been hiding under *)* *)* *)* *)* *)*
how ya been ? long time ?
Hey Mark...
Too bloody busy! New daughter, new car... No money to blow on pinnys... (did manage to score an empty arcade cab though)
And it's been too friggin cold to contemplate going anywhere near Bayswater.... ^.^
How about you? Finished buying up the known universe yet? #@#
-
thanks mate
now go back under the rock you have been hiding under *)* *)* *)* *)* *)*
how ya been ? long time ?
Hey Mark...
Too bloody busy! New daughter, new car... No money to blow on pinnys... (did manage to score an empty arcade cab though)
And it's been too friggin cold to contemplate going anywhere near Bayswater.... ^.^
How about you? Finished buying up the known universe yet? #@#
well done mate
and I understand
and nah we havent really brought anything else yet ....
but as a commercial dealer we have brought a new factory .....
and a few hundred more pins ....
-
and nah we havent really brought anything else yet ....
but as a commercial dealer we have brought a new factory .....
and a few hundred more pins ....
Oh, is that all... *.*
Any projects? &&
Joking - I need to fix that sys 80 POS, I'm sick of looking at it!
-
I bought a container and kept my EL wagon ^^^. I don't own a swimming pool or tennis court !
Just had visions of Nino polishing the bottom of the pool with Novus, and then hitting the tennis net fittings with Ranex... <.> <.> <.>