The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Pinball Mods => General Mods => Topic started by: Caveoftreasures on March 06, 2012, 07:10:46 PM
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I have a local company who specialises in all types of metals/highly polished stainless steel etc that I have been talking to.
I was going to get some mirror blades for some of my machines rather than paying $100 a set which some different sellers are offering on ebay.
I am told that I might get the cost down to half that, or maybe even less. I have alot of different machines I can make sure they fit on, so that I could then look at then sharing low cost sets to other AP members.
I wanted to see how many people would look at perhaps buying some sets if the price could come down considerably to half of the ebay prices. I have access to alot of other peoples machines to make sure they fit properly etc incase u have a title u wanted the mirror blades for, that i havent got here. I am sure that the same ones will fit almost all std bodies, and if i have to make a different set for a widebody, then i can do that as well and check it against some of my widebodies.
Let me know via post or PM if u would look at buying mirror blades if we could get them alot cheaper.
Cavey ! ^^^
UPDATE - anyone wanting low cost mirror blades shld go to this thread below
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=8978.0
swinksy has alot of experience with stainless steel and laser cutting etc
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Can they do skinny mirrors?
Whiplash looks a bit fat, like he has been on the seefood diet for a year or so.
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I took the same path a few months ago and made my own multiple sets after refusing to pay the prices being asked for a pair of these.
You need to ask for a standard sheet of Number 8 mirror polished stainless steel in the thinnest grade they will handle (some companies will only handle sheets to a certain minimum thickness since they are very fragile and can bend easily if being cut manually via a machine). Of course, if they have access to a laser cutter then that is not a problem. I got them to cut them on 0.5mm thick sheets which is virtually paper thin - but you may need this advantage since many pinball machines have a very small gap between the playfield and the cabinet. If the sheet is too thick it will scratch every time the playfield is lifted.
For that reason, I would also recommend buying a roll of black felt adhesive tape to attach to the sides of the playfield - this will stop any chance of the mirrored sheet being scratched when the playfield is raised and lowered.
B/W standard and widebodies are both the same measurements for the mirrored sheets. ^^^
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thanks for the extra info. the place i found laser cuts everything as well. this is what makes the entire job so much more simple. the felt is a good idea.
its amazing how paper thin the stainless feels when u touch it.
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I use to make laser machines, so 0.5mm is easy to cut with a laser no clean up at all. You will need to keep the exposed side (within the game) protected with the film right up to issue to the customer.
- If the laser file is prepared and issued to the sheetmetal / laser company they just have to programme the order of the cuts and away they go.
- 0.5mm SS will be either 1200 x 2400mm or 1200 x 3000mm so you should get about 6 - 7 sets out of 1 sheet.
- laser cut fees will be anything from $150 to $300 per hour but once a sheet is on the deck they should be able to cut 6-7 sets in about 20 mins.
I will send a PM with some other details.
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Sweet Jesus ya just had to put this thread up today didnt ya !
ONLY TODAY I paid for a set and am collecting tomorrow
Thanks Cavey - PAL :lol
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Why dont you install mirrored acrylic instead?
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Why dont you install mirrored acrylic instead?
How thick is the acrylic, there isn't alot of room left before scraping occurs.
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Id grab a couple of sets brett ^^^
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Without going too far off topic you can go even fancier and get coloured mirror polished SS sheets from a place in Sydney called Rimex metals.
http://www.rimexmetals.com.au/StainlessSteelFinishes/ColouredMirrorsSatinsStainlessSteel.html#
I haven't got my measurements handy but you should be able to get half a dozen panels/blades/whatever you want to call them out of one coloured sheet.
They are not cheap though, the quote I got was $468 plus gst plus shipping (fragile and insured) for one coloured sheet. I couldn't find anywhere in SA which stocked it so abandoned the idea.
You can see an example of the black and gold coloured versions at the bottom of this page (note the price):
http://pinballdecals.com/MirrorBladesPage.html
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The vinyl mirrored stuff is also a good idea Gav(retropin) but who has it available. ? sometimes finding the stuff is half the battle. it would be cheaper than thin stainless steel laser cut sheets.
If the mirror vinyl can be scourced cheap enough, cutting sets would be easy with a scalpal, and u can roll it in a post pak for postage to anywhere in the country. thats a better idea if we can find some thin enough. I will do a search on google for mirrored vinyl. stay tuned trendsetters. ^^^
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interesting
pm sent
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OK, got some more PMs already and its only been a few hours. ^^^
It doesnt pay me to ever pay retail since everything i buy for machines needs to be in reasonable numbers. if i had to only do one or two machines u would buy off ebay/retail, but for anyone wanting to do more than a few machines, its going to pay for me to get a bulk deal. it works out well for me and everyone else, so we can all save a dollar. ^^^
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$#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$
I THINK I HIT THE JACKPOT.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRIGHT-MIRROR-CHROME-VINYL-SHEET-ROLL-decal-25-WIDE-/380118727937?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5880d77d01
I just ordered 2 x 10 meter roll. Because it is 25inchs high , i shld be able to get/cut at least 2 or 3 sides per metre etc.
BARGAIN. will share the results when it comes in. This will save paying 4 x times as much for laser cut stainless. Shld be able to cut with a scalpal as well.
$#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$ $#$
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2 millimeters may be too thick.
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See how you go with this stuff... you have to get it flat as flat as any deviation sticks out like dogs bollox... i was thinking more of mirrored acrylic, but thinnest it comes in is 1mm
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2 millimeters may be too thick.
Mirror vinyl isnt 2mm thick... more like 0.3mm
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%$%
2 millimeters may be too thick.
On the sterns it will Need to be 0.5mm or under SS, any thicker and gets too close, more with items like the ramps tend to catch when moving the playfield in or out etc.
Personally I would not do vinyl as once on its on, with SS you can remove and no one would know - return to original, keeps the value.
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2 millimeters may be too thick.
Mirror vinyl isnt 2mm thick... more like 0.3mm
The one Caveoftreasures purchased is
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2 millimeters may be too thick.
Mirror vinyl isnt 2mm thick... more like 0.3mm
The one Caveoftreasures purchased is
No.. thats Mil as in inches.... 1000mil = 1 inch
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2 millimeters may be too thick.
Mirror vinyl isnt 2mm thick... more like 0.3mm
The one Caveoftreasures purchased is
No.. thats Mil as in inches.... 1000mil = 1 inch
Confusing if it is.
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got to hold up to playfield lift up and down too or would look crap in no time
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it doesnt matter what u use as long as it
1. looks the goods
2. is thin enough.
3. My wife showed me this stuff on ebay which she has some here already for her cake decorating business (placed ontop of cardboard that the cake sits on)
I tested some on my machine (Independence day, and it is thinner than a sheet of A4 paper. 2mm is with the backing on, its half to three quarters that with the backing off.
I reckon this is the answer. It will cost $5 to do a whole machine and its chrome mirror mirror finish. it is sweet. U guys will be impressed. i will send out some samples when my big roll arrives. The wife has a small roll left and its definately the answer. Also, it sticks on like contact, but peels off like a sticker if u want and has a removable type stickyness to it. It wont take off paint at all. Whether u use stainless or this contact stuff etc, a playfield is going to scratch perhaps no matter what u use if u arent careful when lifting, but this looks the same, and is 10 or 20 percent of the stainless price. This is the same stuff they use on the racing cars for the Vodafone Lowndes/Whincup team.
When I was up at Dick Johnson Racing a few months ago, they were using it on the racing cars there too. I shld have thought about it earlier. Thanks Gav(Retropin) for reminding me. ^^^ If it ever gets marked, I can replace it for peanuts. I got a 9 metere roll for $75. I reckon being 20 inchs high, i could get apx 3 blades high. A std machine is 1 meter apx long. Thats about 15 sets for $75. Thats $5 a set ! Even if u doubled it, BARGAIN !
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Guys regarding the sides of your playfields . I bought my felt from PinRestore .
http://www.pinrestore.com/Supplies.html
You'll find it there about halfway down the page . I got the 3/4" wide x 1/16" thick . It does come in a 1/32" extra thin but I have never had a problem with the 1/16" .
I've got it on my IJ because I have the Treasure Cove decals installed .
You could probably buy it somewhere local but I checked at Bunnings etc. and couldn't find anything that suited .
P.S - PinRestore charge a minimum postage cost .. BUT .. they do refund any excess postage to the cent !!
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The stuff u mentioned above is great. I am pretty sure I can get the felt from a hobby warehouse my wife goes to real cheap. I will share the cost/benefits when i go next week. I dislike paying retail. (dont we all)
With a ABN, i always go wholesale only. Saves at least 50% in most cases. ^^^
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If the PF drags on the stainless when its lifted it will get permanently marked... its an issue that will be present no matter what is installed. Chrome vinyl is certainly much cheaper and can be replaced very easily if need be
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Very interesting. ^^^
Look forward to seeing how this goes.
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UPDATE -the stuff left North CHarlotte USA (I think the state is Carolina) apx 4 or 5 days ago ebay tells me. Shld be here within the week or ten days max. $#$
Its going to work out at apx $5 or $8 a machine. It saves paying $100 plus postage from ebay sellers in OZ.
*(sorry in advance to those who were making apx $60 or $70 profit per set using stainless which is just too costly due to laser cutting and labour from a stainless company)
I got quotes to get it done using stainless and the local guy wanted apx $35 a set. But the set up time etc means u have to get at least 6 to 10 sets done to make it worth their while doing the cad drawings for their machine.
Using this stuff, I use one template and cut extra sets out using scissors or a scalpal. It shld work out well. I have the fleet to do, so paying 35 to 40 times $40 each (or $100 ebay)_ was never a option for me. If it works out which i think it will, I dont mind sharing the stuff etc. Cant wait for it to get here so i can do the machine I have sitting ready n waiting before it goes back into its rightful slot (Independence day since I just did all the LEDS on the machine).
Should look bloody great having all my machines with mirror blades. 40 machines at $5 to $8 each. BARGAIN !
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You should get the template for 90's Bally / Williams in the mail today / tomorrow.
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Swinksy = Legend. ^^^
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Oi Cavey...
If you bring it up to Brisbane and crack a beer with me, ill put it through my vinyl plotter... can have 10 or 20 sets cut and ready to apply with application tape in about 10 minutes.... ill need dimensions so i can make a vector file though
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Its a done deal Gav. ^^^ I will bring the beer n bourban, a few dancing girls and some mirror chrome vinyl etc. ^^^
I have got some other work for ya which I will throw some money at you for since u are playing on the plotter etc. Will work out well for both of us.
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* UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE *
Ok, the roll of MIRROR FILM for the mirror blades has arrived this morning by courier from the USA. So far, it looks impressive. I will be playing with it and cutting some today for a machine or two and I will report back with some photos n give u guys some feedback on this very inexpensive product.
It looks the goods and I think it will be fine. ^^^
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Looking forward to your thoughts on this product once you have some installed!
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You have me intrigued now Cavey, cant wait to see some pics
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You have me intrigued now Cavey, cant wait to see some pics
+ 1 . Bring on the pics Brett #@#
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I will add photos today after i go n vote in the mandatory QLD elections etc. @.@ stay tuned ! ^^^
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^&( you must have voted by now Brett wheres the pictures <.>
Peter
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Hi Brett,
Regarding the vinyl film from usa (which appears to be nothing more than signwriters vinyl here in oz for $15 a roll).
I'm concerned that being so thin it will contour to all the imperfections of the cabinet side, thus creating a not-so-flat mirror effect, but rather a shimmery/distorted effect, which may or may not be ideal and will differ between users preferences.
While acrylic mirror (perspex) is thick at 3-6mm, there's nothing to stop us from routing the inside of the cabinet wall out, to house the persex, which is about $5 per blade ;-)
A channel could be routed in such a way that the perspex simply drops into a slot, and easily replaced if damaged, in case the ball has access to hit it...
In fact you wouldn't need to lift the playfield, juts slip the top-glass off and drop in 2 new blades and you're done...
just my thoughts, in case it inspires anyone ;-)
MM.
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Acrylic mirror goes down to 2mm... it is great stuff and im often cutting sheets of this for hairdressers etc who want a cheaper option.
2mm mirror is $100 for a standard 2440mm X 1220mm sheet
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Hi Brett,
Regarding the vinyl film from usa (which appears to be nothing more than signwriters vinyl here in oz for $15 a roll).
I'm concerned that being so thin it will contour to all the imperfections of the cabinet side, thus creating a not-so-flat mirror effect, but rather a shimmery/distorted effect, which may or may not be ideal and will differ between users preferences.
While acrylic mirror (perspex) is thick at 3-6mm, there's nothing to stop us from routing the inside of the cabinet wall out, to house the persex, which is about $5 per blade ;-)
A channel could be routed in such a way that the perspex simply drops into a slot, and easily replaced if damaged, in case the ball has access to hit it...
In fact you wouldn't need to lift the playfield, juts slip the top-glass off and drop in 2 new blades and you're done...
just my thoughts, in case it inspires anyone ;-)
MM.
I agree with Marty with the ripple effect.
I wouldn't go to problems of routing your cabinet. You can get 6 sets of SS mirror blades from a sheet including laser cutting costs in total for about $40 a set without any profit on top. Yes if you were going to do 30 sets for yourself it is a small fortune but will look fantastic. SS is under 1mm and they do not leave much room for the playfield to slide by, so even though acrylic would be cheaper and look good it will be too thick.
Just be careful putting this vinyl on your machine and beware if you have to remove it may strip paint with it.
I have a set of Bally / Williams S mirrors and happy to draw up (when time allows) for a laser cut file to share around.
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There's also another option, mounting mirror blades (of any thickness) onto the actual playfield rails so the blades lift WITH the playfield out of the cabinet, therefore no scraping issues.
This means the left and right alley rails need to be routed thinner (or better still, fit thinner rails) to allow the thickness of the mirror-blade to fit in snugly and then secure the bladers in place with short screws into the wooden rails.
putting it out there ;-)
MM.
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Just checked with my supplier... mirror can be bought down to 1mm thickness
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Just checked with my supplier... mirror can be bought down to 1mm thickness
They would be the go then, can you get the mirror in a gold tint and possibly other colours. What's the cost like for a sheet of 1200 x 2400mm?
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Just checked with my supplier... mirror can be bought down to 1mm thickness
They would be the go then, can you get the mirror in a gold tint and possibly other colours. What's the cost like for a sheet of 1200 x 2400mm?
Another alternative is to get 0.25mm, 0.5mm or 1mm thich sheets of 'anything' and stick the chrome signwriters vinyl to it for the mirror finish.
It would be far flatter than sticking the vinyl direct to the plywood cabinet (as discussed earlier with the ripple effect).
Signwriters vinyl also comes in transparent colours, so you could stick a sheet of red over the mirror vinyl to acheive a red-mirror, same with yellow, green or blue etc etc....or even use different coloured sections along the length of the blade where different colours are needed (or best suited) with various features & props of the pinny.
MM.
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There's also another option, mounting mirror blades (of any thickness) onto the actual playfield rails so the blades lift WITH the playfield out of the cabinet, therefore no scraping issues.
This means the left and right alley rails need to be routed thinner (or better still, fit thinner rails) to allow the thickness of the mirror-blade to fit in snugly and then secure the bladers in place with short screws into the wooden rails.
putting it out there ;-)
MM.
This is a valid idea as well though just checked my CFTBL and the ramps go over the side rails so this idea may only suit certain games. This concept would suit an Iron Man for example as the ramps and ramp support brackets are mounted 1-2 mm from the rail edge. Another thing to watch here is the screws that hold the rail to the playfield - would have to watch that the screws are not to close to the outer edge as once you trim the rails down you might expose the side of a screw and possibly weaken the mounting.
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Just checked with my supplier... mirror can be bought down to 1mm thickness
They would be the go then, can you get the mirror in a gold tint and possibly other colours. What's the cost like for a sheet of 1200 x 2400mm?
Another alternative is to get 0.25mm, 0.5mm or 1mm thich sheets of 'anything' and stick the chrome signwriters vinyl to it for the mirror finish.
It would be far flatter than sticking the vinyl direct to the plywood cabinet (as discussed earlier with the ripple effect).
Signwriters vinyl also comes in transparent colours, so you could stick a sheet of red over the mirror vinyl to acheive a red-mirror, same with yellow, green or blue etc etc....or even use different coloured sections along the length of the blade where different colours are needed (or best suited) with various features & props of the pinny.
MM.
Now you have got it ^^^
Still involves a laser cutting process but say 0.5mm gal (so you don't have to worry about rusting etc) - but gal sheet would be heaps cheaper than SS.
This is like delayed team brainstorming.
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This is like delayed team brainstorming.
That's what it's all about ;-)
Yeh i figure gal, alloy or plastic are all cheaper than SS.
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stainless steel is too expensive and u have to do cad drawings for the laser cutter, which almost no one except a select few people can do etc, so stainless mirror blades are not economical at $100 a set plus postage, or even $50 if u are forced to buy in bulk, if u get past the cad drawing hassles etc. For that product to be economical, it always relys upon cad drawings, laser cutters, small job runs, and always third parties. just a hassle really. @.@
**The answer is the stuff i have bought, and so far, it does NOT have ripple effect that i can see. ^^^ (if your sidewalls are that rough and damaged on your pinny, sand them which takes 5 minutes before u apply the film i have bought etc) It sticks n peels etc easily, so its not a one way product, which is what we all want and its cheap, but its definately MIRROR finish. It does look the goods. I really think this is the answer. *%*
*I was mowing my 69 yr old mums lawns today etc (she lives an hour away etc) so i never got time to add photos. Also, in Australia, the signwriters rolls dont exist for $15, not for 10 metre rolls at 25inches high either. I certainly couldnt find a decent commercial product for that money, not in a big roll anyway.It cost me $100 from the USA, but I have worked out that I can easily get apx 17 to 20 sets, so $5 a set is cheap. This stuff is the go i reckon. Anyone can use it in 5 minutes and it is VERY mirror finish 4 sure. AND it doesnt take paint off either. Stay tuned for the photos during sunday. ^^^ (Maybe we can find a supplier in Australia cheaper, but at $5 a set I had to give this stuff a go hence i just grabbed that roll etc). ^^^ **photos sunday guys with a realistic product report once i do the machine, which shld be very easy.
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Cavey, as much as the film looks good, be aware it is ultra thin at 2mils, and will show the wood grain easily, no matter how much you sand it..
You need to go thicker (.5-1mm) to hide the grain.
I only say this because we suffered the same thing on a work project, until we used .5mm film which hides the graining effect, although the final product eneded up going with acrylic mirror anyway..
The $15 rolls are on ebay, i just bought some 3-4 months ago, and very similar pricing at local suppliers in vic anyway.
food for thought.
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IF a thicker product is required, I would just stick this stuff on a piece of kitchen style thin laminate which is really really cheap n comes in decent size sheets etc, and can be cut with a stanley knife, then mount that like u would stainless or mirror or whatever.
* I will know by this arvo/tonight if any grain shows thru it etc. But remembering, the thin-ness is required to get past the playfield scratching the guts out of it as the playfield is lifted up n down. stay tuned for the photos and the report.
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FINAL RESULTS FINAL RESULTS FINAL RESULTS FINAL RESULTS FINAL RESULTS FINAL RESULTS
unfortunately the product in not 100 percent mirror reflective, and my report is that its not as good as the stainless option when applied.
the film is very easy to cut, very easy to place on the machine, very easy to adjust etc etc, BUT the film when placed on its side is not 100 percent mirror finish, but more like 70 to 80 percent mirror finish. So the results are a little hubble telescope in that the film is very reflective, but not 100 percent mirror reflective, and the reflection is like its out of focus by 20 percent. With a whack of machines, would I use it, YES, because I dont want to pay out 35 or 40 times $100 or $50 each set for stainless blades.
Would i use the film I have purchased, and turn standard black boring side walls into a bright shiny silver reflective surface to lift the overall lighting up by 70 percent, YES. But when the product is placed on its side, and the light waves hit it, its only 70 to 80 percent mirror like in its reflections. Laying flat u think its the go, but on its side, things change with the angles.
SORRY GUYS, but it just doesnt come up to scratch when comparing stainless mirror blades side by side for those wanting TRUE mirror image etc.
I will still use the stuff I have, but will pick n chose which machines I use or dont use it on etc.
My next step is to now go back to the stainless steel supplier with the laser cutter etc, and get some prices rechecked for a bulk buy of mirror blades in stainless.
This is a must to overcome the very expensive prices currently being charged. The film works, but not as good as the stainless I have to declare.
**Perhaps the mistake I made was to buy Chrome mirror film instead of a literal mirror film. Anyone got any leads on mirror film that is not chrome, cause I think the chrome version loses 20 percent of the reflective properties making it less than mirror finish which seems to be 100 percent reflective like stainless !@# maybe we are on the right track with cut, peel n stick, but need a slightly more sharper product > ? !@#
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Thanks for your effort so far, i was anxious to see how these turned out. I do, and i' am sure others do apprecaiate your research ^^^
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Thanks for the feedback Brett . Shame it hasn't turned out like you hoped.
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I dont know of a " mirror" vinyl... its metallic chrome.
My original suggestion was MIRRORED acrylic whic is a mirror finish behind a clear sheet of acrylic
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I dont know of a " mirror" vinyl... its metallic chrome.
My original suggestion was MIRRORED acrylic whic is a mirror finish behind a clear sheet of acrylic
where can we find that product Gav, or anyone ? !@#
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@caveoftreasures: can we see some pics?
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I dont know of a " mirror" vinyl... its metallic chrome.
My original suggestion was MIRRORED acrylic whic is a mirror finish behind a clear sheet of acrylic
where can we find that product Gav, or anyone ? !@#
Any sheet supplier should have it... Australian Sheet Suppliers in Brisbane sell it... Plastral will have it... ill get some more company names... its 5.15am and my brain hasnt kicked in yet
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So guys do we have an outcome for the mirror blades ?
Who's got the best ones in the market , with minimal impact to the pinball ?
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I am investigating the lead Gav(retropin) gave me, as opposed to going back to the stainless steel company and paying around $30 to $40 a set if ordering apx 12 sets or more at a time. Otherwise the bloke on ebay is selling a nice set for $99 each plus postage. If u are only doing 1 or 2 machines, that is OK, but for more sets, u have to go to a SS supplier and buy in bulk ofcourse.
Maybe if Gav's lead doesnt work, its just back to the ss company.
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Cheers Brett thanks for the effort its appreciated-I'd love to see a game with mirror blades in person to see how good it looks..
Peter
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I have some spare 2mm mirrored acrylic at my shop.. probably too thick.. but Cavey, if you want to give it a go.. its here mate
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I will pop past Gav and give some a try, and check out some more of the cool world of Retropin ! ^^^ Will call this next day or so.
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@caveoftreasures: can we see some pics?
+1.
Even some shots of the vinyl film itself uninstalled.
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Guys,
the pics of the stuff i bought n cut from the USA aint worth a photo cause the final look is just the same if u had have put say shiny alfoil that u use in the kitchen along the sides of the pinball inner cabinet (maybe better than that but it still didnt cut the mustard). Its not up to scratch when u compare it to the proper expensive mirror blades, HOWEVER if i get a result from the stuff i get off Gav, i will instantly upload photos to the forum for sure ! ^^^
I will know within a few days...stay tuned...
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PM and a image sent to your email ^^^
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anyone wanting low cost mirror blades shld go to this thread below
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=8978.0
swinksy has alot of experience with stainless steel and laser cutting etc