Author Topic: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...  (Read 5636 times)

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Offline humpalot

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2008, 08:58:05 AM »
If your game so to speak, you can test your driver board in your Gorgar it's a straight plug in.  For testing you can use fast blow fuses.

Offline Pinfan

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2008, 05:51:47 PM »
OK- mini update.

Picked up fuses at Jaycar, awesome place, installed fuses...not blowing on power up anymore ..  #*# #*#

Disconnected driver board from MPU and fired up MPU on its own...kept blowing the solonoid fuse on power up so i reconnected driver and all is fine.

Put in the known working gorgar driver board and i get the same results as with the existing BK driver... Random sounds on power up, no displays and no cpu controlled lights.

I also changed the MPU's 6808 with the sound boards 6808 and no change !

So i am basically where i started... 5 and 12 v to the MPU board and i have the + and - 100 for the displays... PSB regulator and diodes test OK...

Gavin i tested the PIA pins as you suggested and get voltages ranging anywhere from 2.5 to 5 v. I don't know what i need to check, if high or low etc....
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 06:01:32 PM by Pinfan »
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Offline humpalot

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 10:55:26 PM »
Great news that you are back to square 1. 

If it was me, I'd replace the 5V cap and the header pins on the power supply.  Those round header pins are crap.

I've got a Flash and every problem that I've had from the machine was from these.  My machine has gone from being high maintenance to sweet trouble free.

I'm not saying that it will fix your problem, but it's a good start.

Offline Retropin

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 11:27:55 PM »
As Humpalot says - the 5v has to be dead smooth, if you have a CRO then you can test this for ripple.

With the voltages on the PIA outputs - the 5V is a high. If you have several voltages at 2,5V then consider this your low, anything that is in the middle of these 2 readings should be considered suspect.

Just to recap a bit - do you have the 5V at pin 37 on interboard???

Offline Pinfan

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2008, 05:56:43 PM »
If it was me, I'd replace the 5V cap and the header pins on the power supply.  Those round header pins are crap.

Done already... ( header pins ) The 5 volts to the MPU board is between 5.01 and 5.05 v, i'd consider that clean )

Just to recap a bit - do you have the 5V at pin 37 on interboard???

No 5 V at pin 37 ! ^.^
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stuba

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 06:27:23 PM »

extract from here re blanking

http://blog.11h.net/brian/62

Then it hits me — I recall reading about this “Blanking” signal. Not sure what exactly it does, I do find out it goes over the intraboard connector at pin 37. Whip out the DMM for a quick check … +5v on CPU board — check. +2v merely 2mm away on the driver board — WTF?

It turns out that even though the intraboard connector pins look like they were making contact, they weren’t.  I was able to get the signal to pass thru by shoving a paper-clip in the connector.

Anyway, here’s the logic behind this mysterious “blanking” signal… There is a 555 (actually 556) timer that acts as a watchdog timer for the CPU.  If the CPU stops ‘feeding’ this watchdog timer by sending consistant pulses to it, the timer expires and it is supposed to pull the blanking signal low.  This blanking signal goes into an AND gate with every solenoid cpu-driven PIO output before hitting the transistors to switch them on.  Basically, if blanking is low, no solenid can be actuated by the CPU.  It is used to prevent the solenoids from actuating before the CPU boots and to disable them if the CPU locks up.  Now what did we learn in basic digital circuits class?  That an “open” is commonly seen by logic gates as a “high”?  And a high-blanking signal means all the solenoids are under CPU control — but the CPU hasn’t actually booted yet.

Its clever in its own way — On one hand it does good to prevent burnt up coils from a CPU malfunction, on the other hand it becomes one of the single most important signals sent thru that inter-board connector…

Offline Pinfan

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2008, 08:57:19 PM »
I can't begin to tell you how many articles,posts etc i have read in regards to the blanking signal on Williams pinball circuitry. #$#

I have basically replaced every IC,tranistor, the 555 timer and the 40 pin connector in the line of the blanking signal.

This is where i hit the brick wall !  ^.^

The only advancement made after all the replaced components was upon power up i get random sounds. ( Original BK sounds )

Once powered up the only access i have to the entire game is the sound board test button... If i press that i get the sound test as it should be....Nothing else !

BTW thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far, i appreciate it. ^^^

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Offline Retropin

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2008, 09:18:46 PM »
The conundrum of the Blanking signal.....

No 5V at blanking test point and no 5v at pin 37 - jumping 5v to pin 37 does nothing and game still does not boot. This is because Blanking is fine and is actually doing its job by pulling voltage low.

Your fault lies elsewhere, so we need to look at the PIA's - also check that the clock is running on MPU - i have had a crystal fail on me.

I take it you get no diagnostic code on the led on the CPU board???

If ALL voltages are present at test points then we can look at signals on the CPU, make sure clock is running - check IRQ etc on MPU chip - are your sockets good??
Do you have a logic probe at all?

Offline humpalot

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2008, 09:34:22 PM »
Yep agree with Gavin.

Try the crystal, you can cheat a little with the sockets by inserting machine pins into the existing sockets.  If the machine pins fix your problem duly replace the sockets.  Try new eproms.

Offline Retropin

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2008, 01:01:45 PM »
Any progress with this??

was hoping to "get stuck into it"this weekend

Offline Pinfan

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2008, 01:55:56 PM »
Nope Gavin,

Its at the point where i am really frustrated with it, so taking a step back for a mini !
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2008, 02:25:28 PM »
Oh i know that feeling!

When you do go back to it, just start at the 6808 CPU chip, make sure that XTAL, IRQ, R/W etc are as they should be.

If CPU isnt booting, then id expect one of the signals to be down on this chip. We can start here and "fan "out

Offline Nug

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2008, 07:37:23 PM »
in the beginning i would have said the chips need reseating, but youve f**ked something else up now, sure it was 5V you jumped and pin 37...sound like something else done perhaps ?!
oh my mistake.. you are wrong !

Offline Pinfan

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Re: Black Knight Williams Sys 7...
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2008, 11:43:09 PM »
Anybody who knows me Nug knows that i don't just 'jump' into things...

I triple checked that it was 5v i was jumping into PIN 37....

I am back where i started from ATM anyway so things are still OK... %$% hopefully.....

I reseated all the IC's and roms recently and replaced all the roms about 1 year ago. No change.
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