Author Topic: System 11 Display- Cyclone  (Read 259 times)

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Offline robm

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System 11 Display- Cyclone
« on: March 27, 2010, 05:12:27 PM »
I've just got a Cyclone machine where everything seems to work fine except the bottom two displays (these are just numerical - not alphanumeric).  The top two (alphanumeric) are bright and work 100%.

So far -

Checked all fuses

Reseated all connectors

Checked +100, -100 and +5V are getting to the display board

Continuity between each plug to the display board from the CPU board (and PS board) (this was continuity pin to pin - ie: with the connector half off, so i know its making contact)

The thing that seems a little amiss at the moment is the fact that plugs (on CPU board) 1J1 and 1J2 (both digit strobe?), (these correspond to J3 and J4 on display board) have 5v at each pin

BUT

1J3 (Display BCD - whatever that is?) has no voltage present at any of the pins except the blanking (pin12) of 4.38V - this goes to J5 on the display. Is this normal?

Have checked out pinrepair, but a lot of that seems to focus on if all the displays are out - not just the bottom two...

Any ideas or other checks to carry out?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:14:02 PM by robm »

Offline Strangeways

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 10:39:27 PM »

I had a problem with the Pin*Bot that was similar. Ended up being an internal short in one of the displays.

Isolate each numerical display - place only one display in Player three's position. Test the machine.

Still dead ?

Replace the display with the other one in Player three's position. Test the machine.

If they are both dead - then try again, but in the Player 4 position. This will eliminate cables and displays.
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Offline robm

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 10:44:35 PM »
I would have liked to try that, but the displays are soldered in and most of the legs look pretty flimsy, unsure i want to desolder/resolder and potentially make anything worse, but i guess if i can't find any other way around it....

Offline Strangeways

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 10:52:39 PM »
I would have liked to try that, but the displays are soldered in and most of the legs look pretty flimsy, unsure i want to desolder/resolder and potentially make anything worse, but i guess if i can't find any other way around it....

I'm thinking of a different display system !
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Offline beaky

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2010, 01:53:32 AM »
are there any voltages on the pins on the 3 & 4 player displays?
i checked j5 on the display board and it only has one pin with around the same volatage that you have mentioned
let me know how you go with the volage check on the displays.

i have a swords of fury and a fire withe the  same type of displays as your cyclone
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Offline humpalot

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2010, 09:02:15 AM »
Out gassed?

Offline robm

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2010, 09:06:11 AM »
Beaky,

Went out and check the voltages, they are as follows (pins go from right to left on the machine)

Player 3

Pins 1 - 16
-0.8   3.7   4.2   3.8   9.1   82   -93   3.2   2.9   3.2   0   6.4   2.3   3.8   0   5.4

Pins 24 - 39
3.2   0   6.4   3.8   6.4   0   5.4   -95   3.2   1.1   83   0   6.5   0   6.5   -1.3

Player 4
Pins 1-16
-1.4   6.7   0.5   6.8   16.7   17.4   -10.8   5.4   0   5.4   3.5   6.5   0   6.4   1.9   5.5

Pins 24-39
5.5   1.9   6.4   2.5   6.5   1.6   -3.7   -12.5   -3.6   -0.8   18.3   -1.5   3.7   -1.9   3.7   -2.1

The other thing i noticed is that some seemed to fluctuate a bit, dunno if this was when the display was meant to be lit up during attract mode?

Offline beaky

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 05:49:14 PM »
Beaky,

Went out and check the voltages, they are as follows (pins go from right to left on the machine)

Player 3

Pins 1 - 16
-0.8   3.7   4.2   3.8   9.1   82   -93   3.2   2.9   3.2   0   6.4   2.3   3.8   0   5.4

Pins 24 - 39
3.2   0   6.4   3.8   6.4   0   5.4   -95   3.2   1.1   83   0   6.5   0   6.5   -1.3

Player 4
Pins 1-16
-1.4   6.7   0.5   6.8   16.7   17.4   -10.8   5.4   0   5.4   3.5   6.5   0   6.4   1.9   5.5

Pins 24-39
5.5   1.9   6.4   2.5   6.5   1.6   -3.7   -12.5   -3.6   -0.8   18.3   -1.5   3.7   -1.9   3.7   -2.1

The other thing i noticed is that some seemed to fluctuate a bit, dunno if this was when the display was meant to be lit up during attract mode?
sounds like one or both of the displays are stuffed.
on player 3; the 82v &  83v on pin 6 and 34,  plus the -93v & -95v on pin 7 and 31  are to high : and on player 4; the 17.4v & 18.3v  and the  -10.8v -12.5 on the same pins are to low.
on pin 34 i have 54v, i will check pins 6, 34, 7 and 31 tonight, to memory the -95 was around -63v on mine.
i will have a look at the scematics tonight also and see if i can think of anything else but you may have to take both of the displays out and fit 2 new ones or take out  player 4 display  and check the voltages without the display fitted.

might be easier to replace both displays. at least one is crook and like strange ways problem one might be shorting out internaly.

one more question does any of the 2 displays have a slight orange glow near the pins at the bottom on the last few digits?
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Offline robm

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 08:07:52 PM »
Thanks for the info so far.

No glow whatsoever in player 3 or 4

Player 2 (working well) does glow when nothing on the display.

Offline FirePower

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Re: System 11 Display- Cyclone
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 10:32:29 PM »
1J3 (Display BCD - whatever that is?)

Not that it helps in any way with this problem, but for info and as it used a fair bit in pins, BCD is binary coded decimal.  You use 4 bits (a nibble) to represent a decimal number, so 0101 is equal to five, 1001 is equal to nine, etc. In BCD if you wanted to represent the decimal number 27 it would be 0010 0111, a two and a seven, but split along nibble  boundaries.  It's not very efficient for storage because within each nibble a few combinations don't map to decimal numbers. 1001 is 9 which is fine, but anything higher eg 1010, 1011 etc is wasted.  You also need "odd" hardware to any arithmetic  1001 numerically added to 0111 is 16 decimal which is 0001 0110 in BCD - the hardware exists, but is a bit of a frig.  1001 added to 0111 in normal integer arithmetic would be 10000

In pins it is used a fair bit for driving displays, at least in SS machines - I'm not familiar with DMDs. What they do is show the value of the digit to be displayed in BCD and then, by other means, indicate which digit is to be displayed. If you roll through every digit fast enough you can display the whole score.