Number of shots in a game .......

[swinks]

I was listening to a interview with JPop today (Spooky's 24th episode) and he was talking about the ideal (about 13) amount of shots to be crammed in to a game in comparison to a Star Wars Episode 1 game that has about 8.

I have not played amy of J Pops games so need some help on this one to work out but when I play games I do like the variety of targets, loops and ramps but never really stopped to count the amount of them in a game. So before I do count the number of shots I just wanted to get your opinions on what you think are classified as game shots.

Is it
- each drop / target (does each single one counts as a shot) or does a bank of targets count as one shot as it is a goal to achieve
- each ramp as well
- does a loop shot count in each direction
- does each passage way count as a shot - eg path to the pop bumps like in Iron man
- does the pop bumps count as one shot or three?
- top lane guides and or bottom lane guides to light up rotating lit inserts - or are all of these classified as one shot as it is a goal to achieve

Just interested to know what the consensus feels about it.

[swinks]

I thought, I should ask the guy himself Mr J Pop and knowing that he doesn't have alot to say to those that haven't invested in him or know him I wasn't expected much.

This was his responce:

"Hi,

Shots are places the ball can travel (hit) from the flippers up the
playfield. Some
designers like to create a lot of shot areas and others less. Part of
the problem is
if they are too small or obscure (hard to make) then the game becomes
frustrating.

What makes a "Good game" that's a hard one to pin down. Everyone has
their own
ideas and philosophy. But you need a good theme and good toys, rules.

John"


A good response but still a little vague as I really wanted clarity on his comment from the interview. It is funny as he said in his interview that he encourages others to get invloved and keep the hobby alive, but holds back on his answer.

[Olivia_jason]

you might be little hard on the guy, his answer seemed decent its good the guy replied, maybe try and invite the guy to the forum to talk about his project, tell him allot of people here are very interested in what he is doing

[swinks]

I wasn't meaning to hard on him, yes he answered and very quick to his credit and I have told him there is alot of interest about his Zombie machine. It's just that he made a comment in a recent spooky interview and I was curious how he counted it up.

I have writtren to him a few times in relation to the Zombie machine, and there again his answers are very minimal almost vague - and it wasn't to do with stuff to remain secret.

At least his answer rules out the lanes guides near the flippers - I think.

[Olivia_jason]

wish i had cash to burn to buy this machine just to see what its like, its all very interesting. his answers and interview sure keep my curiosity going

[Pop Bumper Pete]

My view; take Ironman. You have the 'IRON' targets on the left, one shot
You then have the spinner, shot 2
War machine is shot 3. This is a hard one to make so you don't want too many of these
Left ramp is shot 4
Center spinner shot 5
Whiplash , shot 6
Right ramp, shot7
Right spinner, shot8
'MAN' targets, shot 9

I would not count the DRONE targets as shots

[ktm450]

Pop bumpers and lane rollovers would definately not be considered shots, but his first game WCS94 has about 13 or 14 shots, targets spinner ramps holes etc

[swinks]

My view; take Ironman. You have the 'IRON' targets on the left, one shot
You then have the spinner, shot 2
War machine is shot 3. This is a hard one to make so you don't want too many of these
Left ramp is shot 4
Center spinner shot 5
Whiplash , shot 6
Right ramp, shot7
Right spinner, shot8
'MAN' targets, shot 9

I would not count the DRONE targets as shots

And I suppose if you count the 4 drone targets you are up 13 - magic number.

Thanks for your view - helps

[ajlaird]

My take on a shot is a direct path from flipper to intended target, whether that be a loop, ramp, drop target, spinner, stand-up etc. Anything that can be directly hit from a flipper. Rollovers (especially lanes) are generally not considered shots as usually you can't do that.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

My view; take Ironman. You have the 'IRON' targets on the left, one shot
You then have the spinner, shot 2
War machine is shot 3. This is a hard one to make so you don't want too many of these
Left ramp is shot 4
Center spinner shot 5
Whiplash , shot 6
Right ramp, shot7
Right spinner, shot8
'MAN' targets, shot 9

I would not count the DRONE targets as shots

And I suppose if you count the 4 drone targets you are up 13 - magic number.

Thanks for your view - helps

you will notice I dod not count the Iron Monger as he blocks other shots
the same thing with the crane on TDK, it moves to block other shots you could make

[swinks]

Pete, the Iron Monger may block shots but he also is a shot

so for Iron Man my count is

IRON (4) - Shots 1-4
MAN (3) - Shots 5-7
Drones (4) - Shots 8-11
Ramps (L & R) (2) - Shots 12-13
Spinners (3) - Shots 14-16
War Machine (1) - Shot 17
Whiplash (1) - Shot 18
Iron Monger (1) - Shot 19

So I am thinking 19 shots......



For CFTBL my count is

Snackbar Targets (4) - Shots 1-4
Ramps (4) - Shots 5-8     Whirlpool becomes one in multiball mode only though shares a same entry point via the left ramp
Holes to under playfield - kiss and snackbar (2) - Shots 9-10
Move my car lane (1) - Shot 11

So I am thinking 11 shots to stay in the same theory


Can some one with a J Pop designed game share the shot counts based on the above theory as I have never played no seen a J Pop game in the flesh.

[swinks]

My view; take Ironman. You have the 'IRON' targets on the left, one shot
You then have the spinner, shot 2
War machine is shot 3. This is a hard one to make so you don't want too many of these
Left ramp is shot 4
Center spinner shot 5
Whiplash , shot 6
Right ramp, shot7
Right spinner, shot8
'MAN' targets, shot 9

this is what Pete said word for word.

[ajlaird]

I tend to agree with you inasmuch as each drop target would count as a separate shot in my book.

One of the things you want to think about when going for a high score is the risk to reward ratio.

For example, on Cactus Jacks there is a shot off the right flipper that has a high chance of going down the middle on the rebound. I eliminated that shot and was able to keep the ball alive much longer, and the target could still be hit incidentally from other shots.

[Olivia_jason]

ill count my wcs i think its 13 but it has a very wide open area in the playfield that lets you take the shots with out to many obstructions. its a well organized game imo